I was in a pub the other night when three musicians were involved in a paid(I'd imagine) session.
The time, date, locus and culprits(actually very good musicians and nice people) are all known to me but I don't wish to name and shame.
Anyway, I was there for about two hours in other company just having a drink for a change and the format of the session seemed to be
Set of tunes
10 minute break and blether
Another set of tunes
10 minute break and blether
10 minute fag break outside
5 minute blether
Another set of tunes
Another 10 minute break and blether
Is this sort of thing becoming the norm or is it only in pubs where the money is poor and the musos are just going through the motions? I've actually listened to these people in other situations and they've played much more often during the night and with much greater enthusiasm too.
Actually (I hope I don't give things away here), there's another night in this same pub when a more open session is held there and none of the musicians are paid. True, the standard is variable(though it can still be very good) but everyone is much more enthusiastic about the whole thing. The pub is also much busier too and the punters(OK, what do they know? ) really enjoy it.
Let's here your views and accounts of your own experiences. I'd be inclined to suggest that it is the payment factor which is to blame. Increasingly, sessions are being seen as "just a job" and there's not the same fun in many of them these days. What do you think?
Of course, a session isn't a gig and natural breaks do occur from time to time. A little bit of a natter, joke, or whatever is part of the experience but there's a limit.
Yeah i've noticed the same thing. In my personal experience I enjoy a 'spur of the moment' session, one of the ones that creeps up on you from behind. there always seems to be so much more energy and enthusiasm in an unplanned/unpayed session than a 'job'.
I think the reason is that its so much easier to let yourself go when your playing for yourself and not 'the man'.
john b
I don't normally go to that pub on that particular night but I have been there on other evenings when the atmosphere has been very different.
To be fair, I've also seen these same musicians in other situations where their attitude towards the music has been a lot more enthusiastic. Perhaps, if they had been joined by other players( I'm not sure if they wanted this or not), the dynamics might have been very different.
I can't remember ever being in a paid session, bar the odd do involving free beer and food. It must be rather an ordeal at times - being that much more answerable to punters who might want songs or tunes you don't know, can't play or don't like - is that the case? I'm just glad to be able to frequent pubs that'll let musos in at all, to do what they like at the end of a room with no strings attached, provided they don't dance on the tables, and depart in reasonably good order at the end of the evening.
Those sessions are really frustrating for the bodhran player who can't join in on chat about various versions of tunes , tunings, learning tunes, etc!
Just get playing ye feckers!
In some circles it seems to be considered bad taste to be enthusiastic, it's all a bit like the 18th century Church of England about religion, it's very good but let's not get too excited. One (formerly well known) musician once said to me "It's always the worst players that are keenest to play!"
So people go in about 9.30 for a nominal 9 o'clock start, sit around chatting and smoking for half an hour, finally someone gets the fiddle or whatever out and says, "suppose we'd better get started", the implication being that you're lucky they came at all.
But what do I know about it, I don't speak Irish, I don't come from Ennis, I only started playing 35 years ago.
Hey, it beats the session where every time you finish a set, some young, eager, and typically horrible player immediately tries to start up some set of standards that you already played, just so they can prove that they can play...
Back when I was young (ha!) and UK opening hours were (yet) more restricted than now, Irish ones were the stuff of legend and fable - one could believe the pubs were open 48 hours a day. If last-to-finish's musos were in Ireland, maybe 9.30 was the start of an eight-hour stint...
following along with the hijack...I live in NYC and I have yet to make it to the end of an evening session. The one at Mona's doesn't even start until 11 pm, and that's on a Monday night! I really wonder how I'm going to be able to manage this kind of lifestyle and keep my 9-5 job at the same time...(I'm also getting too old to keep those hours!)...
I always thought talking was part of the session. It also keeps the music from sounding like one giant tune.
I arriving in Ennis and walking up to a pub that had a bunch of friendly folks out front smoking. I nodded 'hello' and went inside to find a lovely still-life art piece of instruments surrounding a table. The instruments were either perched in chairs or on the table itself in a nice spontaneous arrangement. Then I realized that all those folks out front were the musicians on a fag break. If it weren't for fag breaks you'd never get to see the still-life artwork in the pub. It can all be enjoyed as part of the session if you leave your expectations behind.
Once upon a time, at our session long ago, we went on a reel jag that lasted an hour and a half. It was like a marathon hackey-sack game. Nobody would allow the "reel" to drop. About thirty minutes into it, we all realized what was happening, and the craic was mighty. I don't think that happens very often anywhere, but when and if it does, its pretty amazing.
I often do exactly the kind of slacker behavior you're describing, but for me the culprit is *lack* of payment.
After a slew of paid gigs, where I have to be there at a certain time with my PA and play for hours on end (which is still complete fun of course), its nice to kick back at the session, enjoy a Guinness, and see what everyone else is up to. When and if inspiration strikes, I'll jump in with a set.
Plus the craic is one thing that really sets a session apart from a performance anyway, so I wouldn't want to lose that.
Many years ago I was invited to join a group to play in a bar that was always quiet on a Saturday night, being just off the main shopping drag, funnily enough in central London. The bar started to fill up on successive Saturday nights, and the glass passed around for us kept getting fuller. One night a friend of one of the musicians dropped in, and would have monopolised our attention in talking except the organiser interupted him by getting another set of tunes going. As he explained afterwards "Some people don't understand the dynamics." I think your friends might have forgotten them too, but I am willing to give them a little benefit of doubt. Little gaps between tunes, yes; a longer break occassionally, yes; as you described it, very unprofessional.
Michael, you've obviously sussed out who I'm talking about but I'm not complaining as such..just making observations. Probably, they didn't realise that the breaks were rather long but it was very noticeable to me when I was wearing a "punter's cap".
Also, as you say, they are all very capable of "playing their hearts out" and I've often known them to do this too on many an occasion. I've great respect for them as musicians and, as Pete suggests, I'm very happy to give them the benefit of the doubt too.
In Hong Kong some bars/pubs pay musicians to play ther for so many hours in a session-ish way to try and give the bar a more irish pub kinda of feel to it. I know the guys who are sort of HKs regular folkies who do this,I sometimes just sit in to play with them. I think its alright because it means theres a regular session i can go to if i feel like it and also its how my friends make a living! (when they aren't playing proper gigs :P) But i do agree an unplanned "spur of the moment" session is always a great one
Is your session like this (I hope not)?
Is your session like this (I hope not)?
I was in a pub the other night when three musicians were involved in a paid(I'd imagine) session.
are all known to me but I don't wish to name and shame.
The time, date, locus and culprits(actually very good musicians and nice people)
Anyway, I was there for about two hours in other company just having a drink for a change and the format of the session seemed to be
Set of tunes
10 minute break and blether
Another set of tunes
10 minute break and blether
10 minute fag break outside
5 minute blether
Another set of tunes
Another 10 minute break and blether
Is this sort of thing becoming the norm or is it only in pubs where the money is poor and the musos are just going through the motions? I've actually listened to these people in other situations and they've played much more often during the night and with much greater enthusiasm too.
Actually (I hope I don't give things away here), there's another night in this same pub when a more open session is held there and none of the musicians are paid. True, the standard is variable(though it can still be very good) but everyone is much more enthusiastic about the whole thing. The pub is also much busier too and the punters(OK, what do they know?
) really enjoy it.
Let's here your views and accounts of your own experiences. I'd be inclined to suggest that it is the payment factor which is to blame. Increasingly, sessions are being seen as "just a job" and there's not the same fun in many of them these days. What do you think?
# Posted on November 10th 2006 by Johannes J
Re: Is your session like this (I hope not)?
Of course, a session isn't a gig and natural breaks do occur from time to time. A little bit of a natter, joke, or whatever is part of the experience but there's a limit.
# Posted on November 10th 2006 by Johannes J
Re: Is your session like this (I hope not)?
Yeah i've noticed the same thing. In my personal experience I enjoy a 'spur of the moment' session, one of the ones that creeps up on you from behind. there always seems to be so much more energy and enthusiasm in an unplanned/unpayed session than a 'job'.
I think the reason is that its so much easier to let yourself go when your playing for yourself and not 'the man'.
john b
# Posted on November 10th 2006 by session savage
Re: Is your session like this (I hope not)?
Is it like that every time on that weeknight(Wednesdays, Thursdays, whatever) John, or was it just that particular night?
It may just have been slow.
Money can work both ways. Sometimes one feels (I do anyway) that you want to give the governor value for money, and play set after set.
# Posted on November 10th 2006 by Alf Tupper
Re: Is your session like this (I hope not)?
I don't normally go to that pub on that particular night but I have been there on other evenings when the atmosphere has been very different.
To be fair, I've also seen these same musicians in other situations where their attitude towards the music has been a lot more enthusiastic. Perhaps, if they had been joined by other players( I'm not sure if they wanted this or not), the dynamics might have been very different.
# Posted on November 10th 2006 by Johannes J
Re: Is your session like this (I hope not)?
I'll bet the "fag" break you mentoined, wasn't.
# Posted on November 10th 2006 by llig leahcim
Re: Is your session like this (I hope not)?
I was being tactful.
# Posted on November 10th 2006 by Johannes J
Re: Is your session like this (I hope not)?
I can't remember ever being in a paid session, bar the odd do involving free beer and food. It must be rather an ordeal at times - being that much more answerable to punters who might want songs or tunes you don't know, can't play or don't like - is that the case? I'm just glad to be able to frequent pubs that'll let musos in at all, to do what they like at the end of a room with no strings attached, provided they don't dance on the tables, and depart in reasonably good order at the end of the evening.
# Posted on November 10th 2006 by nicholas
Re: Is your session like this (I hope not)?
Those sessions are really frustrating for the bodhran player who can't join in on chat about various versions of tunes , tunings, learning tunes, etc!
Just get playing ye feckers!
# Posted on November 10th 2006 by RockyRoader
Re: Is your session like this (I hope not)?
In some circles it seems to be considered bad taste to be enthusiastic, it's all a bit like the 18th century Church of England about religion, it's very good but let's not get too excited. One (formerly well known) musician once said to me "It's always the worst players that are keenest to play!"
So people go in about 9.30 for a nominal 9 o'clock start, sit around chatting and smoking for half an hour, finally someone gets the fiddle or whatever out and says, "suppose we'd better get started", the implication being that you're lucky they came at all.
But what do I know about it, I don't speak Irish, I don't come from Ennis, I only started playing 35 years ago.
# Posted on November 10th 2006 by LastToFinish
Re: Is your session like this (I hope not)?
Nothing wrong with a bit of a chat between the tunes, especially if the group plays long sets.
# Posted on November 10th 2006 by Hanley
Re: Is your session like this (I hope not)?
ha, I love that, "formerly well known."
# Posted on November 10th 2006 by llig leahcim
Re: Is your session like this (I hope not)?
Hey, it beats the session where every time you finish a set, some young, eager, and typically horrible player immediately tries to start up some set of standards that you already played, just so they can prove that they can play...
bleh
Pete
# Posted on November 10th 2006 by Reverend
Re: Is your session like this (I hope not)?
Back when I was young (ha!) and UK opening hours were (yet) more restricted than now, Irish ones were the stuff of legend and fable - one could believe the pubs were open 48 hours a day. If last-to-finish's musos were in Ireland, maybe 9.30 was the start of an eight-hour stint...
# Posted on November 10th 2006 by nicholas
Re: Is your session like this (I hope not)?
following along with the hijack...I live in NYC and I have yet to make it to the end of an evening session. The one at Mona's doesn't even start until 11 pm, and that's on a Monday night! I really wonder how I'm going to be able to manage this kind of lifestyle and keep my 9-5 job at the same time...(I'm also getting too old to keep those hours!)...
# Posted on November 11th 2006 by kennedy
Re: Is your session like this (I hope not)?
I always thought talking was part of the session. It also keeps the music from sounding like one giant tune.
I arriving in Ennis and walking up to a pub that had a bunch of friendly folks out front smoking. I nodded 'hello' and went inside to find a lovely still-life art piece of instruments surrounding a table. The instruments were either perched in chairs or on the table itself in a nice spontaneous arrangement. Then I realized that all those folks out front were the musicians on a fag break. If it weren't for fag breaks you'd never get to see the still-life artwork in the pub. It can all be enjoyed as part of the session if you leave your expectations behind.
# Posted on November 11th 2006 by Phantom Button
Re: Is your session like this (I hope not)?
Once upon a time, at our session long ago, we went on a reel jag that lasted an hour and a half. It was like a marathon hackey-sack game. Nobody would allow the "reel" to drop. About thirty minutes into it, we all realized what was happening, and the craic was mighty. I don't think that happens very often anywhere, but when and if it does, its pretty amazing.
# Posted on November 11th 2006 by jtrout
Re: Is your session like this (I hope not)?
I often do exactly the kind of slacker behavior you're describing, but for me the culprit is *lack* of payment.
After a slew of paid gigs, where I have to be there at a certain time with my PA and play for hours on end (which is still complete fun of course), its nice to kick back at the session, enjoy a Guinness, and see what everyone else is up to. When and if inspiration strikes, I'll jump in with a set.
Plus the craic is one thing that really sets a session apart from a performance anyway, so I wouldn't want to lose that.
# Posted on November 11th 2006 by McBriss
Re: Is your session like this (I hope not)?
ha, that's the gripe. Half an hour or more of reels is not an uncommon occurrence round here. And with the very musicians John is complaining about.
# Posted on November 11th 2006 by llig leahcim
Re: Is your session like this (I hope not)?
Many years ago I was invited to join a group to play in a bar that was always quiet on a Saturday night, being just off the main shopping drag, funnily enough in central London. The bar started to fill up on successive Saturday nights, and the glass passed around for us kept getting fuller. One night a friend of one of the musicians dropped in, and would have monopolised our attention in talking except the organiser interupted him by getting another set of tunes going. As he explained afterwards "Some people don't understand the dynamics." I think your friends might have forgotten them too, but I am willing to give them a little benefit of doubt. Little gaps between tunes, yes; a longer break occassionally, yes; as you described it, very unprofessional.
# Posted on November 11th 2006 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Is your session like this (I hope not)?
Michael, you've obviously sussed out who I'm talking about but I'm not complaining as such..just making observations. Probably, they didn't realise that the breaks were rather long but it was very noticeable to me when I was wearing a "punter's cap".
Also, as you say, they are all very capable of "playing their hearts out" and I've often known them to do this too on many an occasion. I've great respect for them as musicians and, as Pete suggests, I'm very happy to give them the benefit of the doubt too.
# Posted on November 11th 2006 by Johannes J
Re: Is your session like this (I hope not)?
Depends on the session and people. I like a balance between tunes and socializing.
Hi Mark
I don't agree that you're a culprit of session slackerness.
# Posted on November 11th 2006 by TheSilverSpear
Re: Is your session like this (I hope not)?
Thanks, Emily, and yes, I guess it has a lot to do with who else is there and what kind of pace they're setting.
I mainly wanted to disagree with Scotsman's point that its the payment factor that's to blame, since then the session is "just a job".
Although what do I know, I've never been paid to do a session!
# Posted on November 11th 2006 by McBriss
Re: Is your session like this (I hope not)?
In Hong Kong some bars/pubs pay musicians to play ther for so many hours in a session-ish way to try and give the bar a more irish pub kinda of feel to it. I know the guys who are sort of HKs regular folkies who do this,I sometimes just sit in to play with them. I think its alright because it means theres a regular session i can go to if i feel like it and also its how my friends make a living! (when they aren't playing proper gigs :P) But i do agree an unplanned "spur of the moment" session is always a great one
# Posted on November 11th 2006 by scottyboy
Re: Is your session like this (I hope not)?
Some people are paid to lead a session to be sure that a session will occur. It's a common thing in London and other places.
Sounds like a better job than flipping burgers.
# Posted on November 12th 2006 by TheSilverSpear
Re: Is your session like this (I hope not)?
Not even free beer here. but then we go to sessions to meet friends, hear the crack and play a few tunes. No pressure to perform...
# Posted on November 12th 2006 by mehere