My daughter is 3 1/2 years old, she'll be 4 in May. Santa Claus is thinking of bringing here a fiddle as a surprise. Unfortunately Santa Claus does not know anything about fiddles!!
What size fiddle (if any) is best for a 4 year old?
What kind of money should I be forking out?
Where is the best place to pick one up in Ireland, preferably Leinster?
Or is Santa Claus mad for giving a fiddle to a 4 year old?
Fiddles exist in a lot of fractional sizes, 3/4, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/10 (if I'm not mistaken) and 1/16.
There is no standard rule which size would fit for her, she 'll have to try what fits. It is the angle her elbow makes when holding the fiddle in the 1st position that makes the difference. A fiddle teacher or a good luthier should be able to help you.
I have a child the same age and we found her a cheap secondhand fiddle from a local shop after doing a search on the internet. I think it is a 1/10 size. I was told that the rule for getting the size right is to put the violin in position on the childs left shoulder and then, with her arm stretched out, she should be able to just curl her fingers round the scroll.
I would try shopping around on Ebay as condition and tone doesn't really matter much at this age when they are likely to bump and bash and drop it and they are many years away from gettng a good tone out of it. You don't want anything too precious! A new Stentor set (includes bow and case) seems to work out at about £75.
It may be worth getting size advice from a professional as Henk says, and then shoping around as much as possible on the internet. Oh and invest in a good set of earplugs as well, because these dear little angels do seem to like singing along as they scratch away!
Why not try something less ambitious than violin - maybe a recrder or D whistle (or G, as the finger spacing will be smaller)?
Said offspring will be able to produce more pleasing music in a shorter time
It will probably give her just as much pleasure too - there is plenty of time for her to start on violin
I've heard that very young children are often started out on a cardboard fiddle and stick to give them the experience of handling the instrument. I believe this is part of the suzuki method -- can anyone confirm this?
My little girl already has a few instruments....kind of toy'ish ones.....small nylon string guitar....kiddies piano accordian....waltons D whistle.....a harmonica. Plus she kinda likes my mandolin and guitar....and we have an old piano with sticky keys!! I am not pushing her into playing music, more surrounding her with instruments which she can take or leave. Although she is mainly into barbies etc she does often mess around on the various instruments. She expressed an interest in the fiddle after watching the RTE 'Come West Along the Road' DVD with me. As I have said, I am by no means pressurising the child. I just think it's nice to have music around the house and she can get a taste of the different instruments and see which one she prefers. So far the ones we have bought cost less than the kids toys advertised on Cartoon Network etc!
Anyway we have another on the way who can look forward to the hand-me-downs
Both Mozart and Yehudi Menuhin started learning the fiddle at around that age. I think it was a very young Yehudi who smashed his cheap violin because it wasn't up to the standard he aspired to. You've been warned!
I've seen a quality carbon-fibre cello advertised in "The Strad". Presumably carbon-fibre fiddles are also around. It would be useful to be able get a child's carbon-fibre fiddle because of its intrinsic sturdiness. C/f bows are now very common, a fraction of the cost of equivalent wood bows, and giving as good results for most players.
I just don't think a fiddle is a thing for a four year old. I don't think any four year old could play the fiddle properly, make music with it. It's such an awkward and delicate instrument, they would never be able to do anything meaningful with it for long enough to make it worthwhile. So if your intention is to help the child enjoy making music, make it as easy as possible for her to make music she can enjoy. Mozart and Yehudi Menuhin are absurd and unhelpful role models.
Gotta disagree with you there, Bernie. Kids who are drawn on their own to a particular instrument's voice can start at least as young as three years old. That's actually a fairly normal age for many Suzuki violin programs, and as long as it's what the kid wants (not just his/her pushy parents), there's nothing wrong with starting at 3 or 4. That's why they make 1/4 size fiddles.
That said, there probably isn't much to be lost by waiting till she's 5, 6, or 7. Give the finer motor skills a chance to develop. But some kids don't want to wait. As long as you don't force them to play--leave it completely up to their own attraction to music making and fun--then it's fine.
When I was involved with Youth Music I met a lot of very good very young violinists - I don't think any of them turned into Mozarts or Menuhins, but they enjoyed making music - and they enjoyed the social side of it as well. It doesn't work if you push an unwilling child into learning too early, but neither does it help to hold back a child who is willing and able.
If she wants to play the fiddle, let her play! I started playing fiddle when I was 6, and have played now for 8 years with no intentions of ever stopping. I have a friend who started playing fiddle at 4, and she's still playing at age 14. I would say that between 4-6 years of age is a great time for someone to learn how to play fiddle.
My son (and I) started fiddle when he was 4...we got proper instruction,too, not just "messin' around"...
He is now a great fiddler, and piper, to boot at 13 1/2 yrs
I say, if she wants a fiddle, get her one of proper size, and some lessons to go with it..not a big push from the parent to practice...if she only picks it up 5 minutes a day for "practice" I would say that's ok...just don't push it on her...let her come to it
If your little girl is drawn to the fiddle, then that's the instrument for her. From my own experience as a teacher, however, I have found that *most* kids don't have the patience and discipline to learn this finnicky, delicate instrument until they are 5 or 6.
The sad truth about the fiddle is that beginners have to be patient and dedicated enough to work their way up to a certain level of competence before their playing starts sounding like music. We all remember that stage! Some little ones aren't mature enough to understand this, they get discouraged, and it can take them a long time to get to the level when their playing starts to sound like music, which is when it becomes fun to play.
When I was a little kid who loved music, I would "play" any instrument that was lying around - there are some embarassing recordings of me blasting tunelessly on a harmonica during a family sing-along.
The piano was my first instrument (age 4-5ish). I later quit it in favour of the fiddle, but it was the perfect instrument to start on. Kids get a real sense of harmony from visually seeing the layout of a piano/keyboard and learning to make melodies and chords. Here in Canada, we have great beginner keyboard classes for little ones.
I remember being obliged to wait until I was 6 1/2 to start the fiddle, and while at the time I thought that was unresonable(!) now in retrospect, I agree with my former teacher that I probably wasn't ready for that delicate, finnicky instrument until that age. By the age of 6 I was then big enough to start on a 1/4 size, which IMHO is the smallest fiddle to sound tolerable.
So I guess my advice, not having met your little musician, would be to give her a keyboard this Christmas, and a fiddle next Christmas. =0)
My daughter started playing fiddle at the age of 4. And she was definitely NOT too young. She's now 5, and is playing Bach's minuets in Suzuki method as well as half a dozen Irish tunes.
As far as violins go, I'd recommend renting because kids grow fast and will soon outgrow their instrument. My daughter started on a 1/16th and sh'es now using a 1/10th scale.
Couldn't agree more with the previous fm. Purple Hayes.
Besides the unpredictable growth factor at that age,your child
may not take to it and you'll have a fiddle on your hands that
rests in the attic. Rent first. Buy later.
Childrens fiddle...
Childrens fiddle...
Howrya's,
My daughter is 3 1/2 years old, she'll be 4 in May. Santa Claus is thinking of bringing here a fiddle as a surprise. Unfortunately Santa Claus does not know anything about fiddles!!
What size fiddle (if any) is best for a 4 year old?
What kind of money should I be forking out?
Where is the best place to pick one up in Ireland, preferably Leinster?
Or is Santa Claus mad for giving a fiddle to a 4 year old?
Thanks folks!
P.S. She'll be getting a few toys aswell
# Posted on November 8th 2006 by ireland78
Re: Childrens fiddle...
Fiddles exist in a lot of fractional sizes, 3/4, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/10 (if I'm not mistaken) and 1/16.
There is no standard rule which size would fit for her, she 'll have to try what fits. It is the angle her elbow makes when holding the fiddle in the 1st position that makes the difference. A fiddle teacher or a good luthier should be able to help you.
Good luck!
# Posted on November 8th 2006 by Henk Bos
Re: Childrens fiddle...
What is Santa hoping to achieve?
# Posted on November 8th 2006 by Bernie 29
Re: Childrens fiddle...
I have a child the same age and we found her a cheap secondhand fiddle from a local shop after doing a search on the internet. I think it is a 1/10 size. I was told that the rule for getting the size right is to put the violin in position on the childs left shoulder and then, with her arm stretched out, she should be able to just curl her fingers round the scroll.
I would try shopping around on Ebay as condition and tone doesn't really matter much at this age when they are likely to bump and bash and drop it and they are many years away from gettng a good tone out of it. You don't want anything too precious! A new Stentor set (includes bow and case) seems to work out at about £75.
It may be worth getting size advice from a professional as Henk says, and then shoping around as much as possible on the internet. Oh and invest in a good set of earplugs as well, because these dear little angels do seem to like singing along as they scratch away!
# Posted on November 8th 2006 by bowburner
Re: Childrens fiddle...
Thanks for the advice!!
Bernie 29, I'm trying to develop a child prodigy of course!! But if that fails I'll take comfort in just offering my daughter the gift of music.
# Posted on November 8th 2006 by ireland78
Re: Childrens fiddle...
Why not try something less ambitious than violin - maybe a recrder or D whistle (or G, as the finger spacing will be smaller)?
Said offspring will be able to produce more pleasing music in a shorter time
It will probably give her just as much pleasure too - there is plenty of time for her to start on violin
# Posted on November 8th 2006 by domnull
Re: Childrens fiddle...
whoops - that's "recorder" but you probably guessed that!
# Posted on November 8th 2006 by domnull
Re: Childrens fiddle...
I've heard that very young children are often started out on a cardboard fiddle and stick to give them the experience of handling the instrument. I believe this is part of the suzuki method -- can anyone confirm this?
# Posted on November 8th 2006 by fidkid
Re: Childrens fiddle...
My little girl already has a few instruments....kind of toy'ish ones.....small nylon string guitar....kiddies piano accordian....waltons D whistle.....a harmonica. Plus she kinda likes my mandolin and guitar....and we have an old piano with sticky keys!! I am not pushing her into playing music, more surrounding her with instruments which she can take or leave. Although she is mainly into barbies etc she does often mess around on the various instruments. She expressed an interest in the fiddle after watching the RTE 'Come West Along the Road' DVD with me. As I have said, I am by no means pressurising the child. I just think it's nice to have music around the house and she can get a taste of the different instruments and see which one she prefers. So far the ones we have bought cost less than the kids toys advertised on Cartoon Network etc!
Anyway we have another on the way who can look forward to the hand-me-downs
I'll checkout the cardboard fiddle idea, thanks.
# Posted on November 8th 2006 by ireland78
Re: Childrens fiddle...
Don't underestimate children - if she wants a fiddle she won't want to be fobbed off with a recorder or whistle
# Posted on November 8th 2006 by c.g.
Re: Childrens fiddle...
Both Mozart and Yehudi Menuhin started learning the fiddle at around that age. I think it was a very young Yehudi who smashed his cheap violin because it wasn't up to the standard he aspired to. You've been warned!
# Posted on November 8th 2006 by lazyhound
Re: Childrens fiddle...
I've seen a quality carbon-fibre cello advertised in "The Strad". Presumably carbon-fibre fiddles are also around. It would be useful to be able get a child's carbon-fibre fiddle because of its intrinsic sturdiness. C/f bows are now very common, a fraction of the cost of equivalent wood bows, and giving as good results for most players.
# Posted on November 8th 2006 by lazyhound
Re: Childrens fiddle...
I just don't think a fiddle is a thing for a four year old. I don't think any four year old could play the fiddle properly, make music with it. It's such an awkward and delicate instrument, they would never be able to do anything meaningful with it for long enough to make it worthwhile. So if your intention is to help the child enjoy making music, make it as easy as possible for her to make music she can enjoy. Mozart and Yehudi Menuhin are absurd and unhelpful role models.
# Posted on November 8th 2006 by Bernie 29
Re: Childrens fiddle...
Gotta disagree with you there, Bernie. Kids who are drawn on their own to a particular instrument's voice can start at least as young as three years old. That's actually a fairly normal age for many Suzuki violin programs, and as long as it's what the kid wants (not just his/her pushy parents), there's nothing wrong with starting at 3 or 4. That's why they make 1/4 size fiddles.
That said, there probably isn't much to be lost by waiting till she's 5, 6, or 7. Give the finer motor skills a chance to develop. But some kids don't want to wait. As long as you don't force them to play--leave it completely up to their own attraction to music making and fun--then it's fine.
# Posted on November 9th 2006 by Will CPT
Re: Childrens fiddle...
When I was involved with Youth Music I met a lot of very good very young violinists - I don't think any of them turned into Mozarts or Menuhins, but they enjoyed making music - and they enjoyed the social side of it as well. It doesn't work if you push an unwilling child into learning too early, but neither does it help to hold back a child who is willing and able.
# Posted on November 9th 2006 by c.g.
Re: Childrens fiddle...
If she wants to play the fiddle, let her play! I started playing fiddle when I was 6, and have played now for 8 years with no intentions of ever stopping. I have a friend who started playing fiddle at 4, and she's still playing at age 14. I would say that between 4-6 years of age is a great time for someone to learn how to play fiddle.
# Posted on November 9th 2006 by fiddlertracy
Re: Childrens fiddle...
My son (and I) started fiddle when he was 4...we got proper instruction,too, not just "messin' around"...
He is now a great fiddler, and piper, to boot at 13 1/2 yrs
I say, if she wants a fiddle, get her one of proper size, and some lessons to go with it..not a big push from the parent to practice...if she only picks it up 5 minutes a day for "practice" I would say that's ok...just don't push it on her...let her come to it
# Posted on November 9th 2006 by Sunnybear
Re: Childrens fiddle...
If your little girl is drawn to the fiddle, then that's the instrument for her. From my own experience as a teacher, however, I have found that *most* kids don't have the patience and discipline to learn this finnicky, delicate instrument until they are 5 or 6.
The sad truth about the fiddle is that beginners have to be patient and dedicated enough to work their way up to a certain level of competence before their playing starts sounding like music. We all remember that stage! Some little ones aren't mature enough to understand this, they get discouraged, and it can take them a long time to get to the level when their playing starts to sound like music, which is when it becomes fun to play.
When I was a little kid who loved music, I would "play" any instrument that was lying around - there are some embarassing recordings of me blasting tunelessly on a harmonica during a family sing-along.
The piano was my first instrument (age 4-5ish). I later quit it in favour of the fiddle, but it was the perfect instrument to start on. Kids get a real sense of harmony from visually seeing the layout of a piano/keyboard and learning to make melodies and chords. Here in Canada, we have great beginner keyboard classes for little ones.
I remember being obliged to wait until I was 6 1/2 to start the fiddle, and while at the time I thought that was unresonable(!) now in retrospect, I agree with my former teacher that I probably wasn't ready for that delicate, finnicky instrument until that age. By the age of 6 I was then big enough to start on a 1/4 size, which IMHO is the smallest fiddle to sound tolerable.
So I guess my advice, not having met your little musician, would be to give her a keyboard this Christmas, and a fiddle next Christmas. =0)
Best of luck with your musical little girl!
# Posted on November 9th 2006 by treecipitation
Re: Childrens fiddle...
My daughter started playing fiddle at the age of 4. And she was definitely NOT too young. She's now 5, and is playing Bach's minuets in Suzuki method as well as half a dozen Irish tunes.
As far as violins go, I'd recommend renting because kids grow fast and will soon outgrow their instrument. My daughter started on a 1/16th and sh'es now using a 1/10th scale.
# Posted on November 9th 2006 by PurpleHayes007
Re: Childrens fiddle...
Couldn't agree more with the previous fm. Purple Hayes.
Besides the unpredictable growth factor at that age,your child
may not take to it and you'll have a fiddle on your hands that
rests in the attic. Rent first. Buy later.
# Posted on November 12th 2006 by hauke
Re: Childrens fiddle...
Try spenciestunes.com, Spencie is an excellent fiddler, and has imported loads of fiddles from China,, at a really cheap price, ask his advice.
# Posted on November 12th 2006 by tirvaluk