what do you define as "fine"? I felt I was pretty capable when I'd been playing for about 7 years... but I can't really remember what I actually sounded like then- it could have been terrible!!! in the last coupe years, I've started enjoying practicing my fiddle for longer and longer periods of time and actually enjoy what it sounds like- probibly means I'm not half bad! lol~
yeah, it all depends on how much you practice, if you take lessons, if you get practice playing with other people (that helped me tremendesly when I was starting)....it varies, you know?
forever.... still, 14 years and counting. But I have a question about the instrument that I currently find myself in possession of. The only writing inside on the tag is, "Star No. 15" and then , "Empire Violin Co. since 1910" No date of the instrument itself. As for the developing of anything resembling proper ring of the true capacity of whatever violin I happen to be playing.... It al started around oh, age 14 or 15 after playing since age 7. But only in a public school tutelage forum. It was an experiment by a lady named Mrs. Flynn in Omaha NE. to start out 1st graders in instrumental music. Lucky me needed SOMETHING!!! all the way through college in Wyoming. Even got a scholarship for it. But I hardly play anymore as it is. Butthis violin puzzles me. I can't seem to find anything out about it.... can somebody help??
I started playing when I was seven and after three years of scraping, the neighbours commented to my parents that I actually sounded "alright"! I think real tone varies on the voice of your instrument and will only really come when you are practised and confident enough to relax into your playing. Take good care of your bow hold and your left hand position so you don't strangle the tone out unnecessarily, play with others, and if all else fails, sit next to someone really good and mime!
My older sister delights in telling me that when I started violin at age 8 she couldn't stand listening to me play. After about 7 yrs of classical violin lessons I was pretty good (first chair in school orchestra), but then (regretfully) didn't play for about 40 yrs and only took up fiddling about 8 yrs ago. However, it all came back very quickly.
For a good tone, try playing slow airs with long steady bows. Keep the bow speed absolutely constant, relax your bow arm and let the weight of the bow do the work, and find that sweet spot on the string between the bridge and the finger board. And listen to your intonation. All this will carry over to fast jigs and reels. I find this has a great effect on my tone.
Some very pertinent advice my cello teacher gave me all those years ago was to play _in_ the string and not _on_ it. If you play on the surface of the string you'll always have a light, wishy-washy tone that won't carry and is certainly not indicative of the potential of the instrument. Playing _in_ the string isn't the same as digging in and strangling the tone. It is something that is relaxed strength and weight, and brings out the tone. In more recent times I'm applying his advice to my fiddle playing (he was a professional violist and cellist).
Secondly, he told me to think of my bowing arm as a length of heavy but immensely flexible rope from the shoulder to the finger tips; this emphasizes relaxation and gets rid of stiffness in bowing (eg in changing bow direction smoothly), as well as bringing out the tone and enabling power.
Thirdly, he told me to practice at full volume, including long slow bows, without the tone breaking. Later on, this included 4-octave scales on one bow at the forte dynamic. If you don't practice at full volume you'll never be able to do it properly in performance (or in a session, as appropriate) because you'll subconsciously be frightened of making too much noise, and that everyone will hear your mistakes. In fact, of course, an audience doesn't hear or take much notice of the vast majority of "mistakes", except for a disastrous train crash - and that could be an opportunity for light-hearted fun (as I saw Brendan McGlinchey do once when he forgot the B-part of one of his own tunes on the concert platform).
Finally, not practicing at full volume won't develop the tone of the instrument - and this applies in particular to new fiddles (and Spanish guitars, btw). It also applies to an older instrument that hasn't been played for years. A few months ago I heard a practical demonstration of this at a session. One of our principal fiddlers (also a luthier) brought along to the session an old fiddle that someone had asked him to overhaul. Apparently, it hadn't been played for several years. Our fiddler borrowed my c-f viola bow and proceeded to give that fiddle serious "welly" for the next two hours. The improvement in the tone of that fiddle by the end of the session was noticeable.
Trevor, thanks for sharing that idea of playing "in" the string--that's a great image.
Another tip that helped me with tone a lot was Stephane Grappeli's notion of forgetting about the bow and imagining that you are caressing the strings directly with the fingers of the bow hand. A good quality bow and the right mental focus helps you feel all the nuances of the vibrating string--and Grappeli's tip (it was in a printed interview somewhere) really helps bring the focus down to the fingers, where the rubber meets the road, so to speak.
Oh, and probably the biggest help to me in developing the tone I want to get is listening to fiddlers who have that tone in spades. I like a big, round, full, dark tone, so listening to Brendan Bulger, Oisin MacDiarmada, and Allison Krauss gives me a target tone to aim for. For me, it helps a lot to have a very specific sound that I want to emulate. I also listen to cello now and then just to fill me head with that kind of sonorous tone.
*in* the string, that's exactly what my teacher says. I can't do it consistently, but when I can, it's like my bow finds a way to keep the string vibrations going (if I'm not, it feels like I'm starting new vibrations with every note and there's this whole start/stop thing going on). Don't know if that makes any sense...
Another thing he's told me has to do with the nature of the music itself, that if I'm playing a reel, it's meant to be played with spirit and strength, to express the joviality of it, instead of weak little notes that hide in a corner somewhere.
The good news is that I've already seen glimpses of this kind of tone after only five months. How long it will take to get it consistently, on the other hand, will most surely be years. It's such a lovely thing to get the whole violin vibrating from note to note, it goes right through my collarbone. I think I'll go practice now!
Kennedy, what's happening is that you're getting a glimpse of the view from that mountain top you're climbing towards. One day, it might be tomorrow, it might be in several month's time, you'll find yourself almost unexpectedly on the top of that particular mountain, and the tone production you've been seeking suddenly comes together. Like some other things in life, once it's there you won't lose it.
Ever been to a workshop or session and used your strings as a tune guide. As bizarre as it sounds, if you just hold your fiddle with your fingers lightly touching the strings you can feel your way around the tune as the string vibrate with the corresponding tones. I use it to freak out flute players.
Most revealing insights from one and all. As well, this from Denis Lanctot, who described "pulling the notes out of the fiddle" and making each note, no matter how short, have an "arc" - from softly at the start; to building the volume and depth at the centre; to decreasing to softly at the finish. So many sonic mysteries to be found in this little wooden marvel of engineering.
That's a key thing too: listen to how you play, all the time, and keep the idea of a good tone in mind. It'll come quicker then, and without paying great attention to the sound you're making, the technical advice above won't do much.
I wish i'd figured that bit the first year I played fiddle, not the umpteenth.
Fine fiddle tone in... how long?
Fine fiddle tone in... how long?
How long did it take you to develop a fine tone (specifically depth, sonority, and mellowness) on fiddle, particularly at speed?
# Posted on October 28th 2006 by drone
Re: Fine fiddle tone in... how long?
what do you define as "fine"? I felt I was pretty capable when I'd been playing for about 7 years... but I can't really remember what I actually sounded like then- it could have been terrible!!!
in the last coupe years, I've started enjoying practicing my fiddle for longer and longer periods of time and actually enjoy what it sounds like- probibly means I'm not half bad! lol~
yeah, it all depends on how much you practice, if you take lessons, if you get practice playing with other people (that helped me tremendesly when I was starting)....it varies, you know?
# Posted on October 28th 2006 by BE
Re: Fine fiddle tone in... how long?
forever.... still, 14 years and counting. But I have a question about the instrument that I currently find myself in possession of. The only writing inside on the tag is, "Star No. 15" and then , "Empire Violin Co. since 1910" No date of the instrument itself. As for the developing of anything resembling proper ring of the true capacity of whatever violin I happen to be playing.... It al started around oh, age 14 or 15 after playing since age 7. But only in a public school tutelage forum. It was an experiment by a lady named Mrs. Flynn in Omaha NE. to start out 1st graders in instrumental music. Lucky me needed SOMETHING!!! all the way through college in Wyoming. Even got a scholarship for it. But I hardly play anymore as it is. Butthis violin puzzles me. I can't seem to find anything out about it.... can somebody help??
# Posted on October 28th 2006 by justjenn
Re: Fine fiddle tone in... how long?
I started playing when I was seven and after three years of scraping, the neighbours commented to my parents that I actually sounded "alright"! I think real tone varies on the voice of your instrument and will only really come when you are practised and confident enough to relax into your playing. Take good care of your bow hold and your left hand position so you don't strangle the tone out unnecessarily, play with others, and if all else fails, sit next to someone really good and mime!
# Posted on October 28th 2006 by bowburner
Re: Fine fiddle tone in... how long?
My older sister delights in telling me that when I started violin at age 8 she couldn't stand listening to me play. After about 7 yrs of classical violin lessons I was pretty good (first chair in school orchestra), but then (regretfully) didn't play for about 40 yrs and only took up fiddling about 8 yrs ago. However, it all came back very quickly.
For a good tone, try playing slow airs with long steady bows. Keep the bow speed absolutely constant, relax your bow arm and let the weight of the bow do the work, and find that sweet spot on the string between the bridge and the finger board. And listen to your intonation. All this will carry over to fast jigs and reels. I find this has a great effect on my tone.
# Posted on October 28th 2006 by Stewart
Re: Fine fiddle tone in... how long?
Some very pertinent advice my cello teacher gave me all those years ago was to play _in_ the string and not _on_ it. If you play on the surface of the string you'll always have a light, wishy-washy tone that won't carry and is certainly not indicative of the potential of the instrument. Playing _in_ the string isn't the same as digging in and strangling the tone. It is something that is relaxed strength and weight, and brings out the tone. In more recent times I'm applying his advice to my fiddle playing (he was a professional violist and cellist).
Secondly, he told me to think of my bowing arm as a length of heavy but immensely flexible rope from the shoulder to the finger tips; this emphasizes relaxation and gets rid of stiffness in bowing (eg in changing bow direction smoothly), as well as bringing out the tone and enabling power.
Thirdly, he told me to practice at full volume, including long slow bows, without the tone breaking. Later on, this included 4-octave scales on one bow at the forte dynamic. If you don't practice at full volume you'll never be able to do it properly in performance (or in a session, as appropriate) because you'll subconsciously be frightened of making too much noise, and that everyone will hear your mistakes. In fact, of course, an audience doesn't hear or take much notice of the vast majority of "mistakes", except for a disastrous train crash - and that could be an opportunity for light-hearted fun (as I saw Brendan McGlinchey do once when he forgot the B-part of one of his own tunes on the concert platform).
Finally, not practicing at full volume won't develop the tone of the instrument - and this applies in particular to new fiddles (and Spanish guitars, btw). It also applies to an older instrument that hasn't been played for years. A few months ago I heard a practical demonstration of this at a session. One of our principal fiddlers (also a luthier) brought along to the session an old fiddle that someone had asked him to overhaul. Apparently, it hadn't been played for several years. Our fiddler borrowed my c-f viola bow and proceeded to give that fiddle serious "welly" for the next two hours. The improvement in the tone of that fiddle by the end of the session was noticeable.
# Posted on October 29th 2006 by lazyhound
Re: Fine fiddle tone in... how long?
Trevor, thanks for sharing that idea of playing "in" the string--that's a great image.
Another tip that helped me with tone a lot was Stephane Grappeli's notion of forgetting about the bow and imagining that you are caressing the strings directly with the fingers of the bow hand. A good quality bow and the right mental focus helps you feel all the nuances of the vibrating string--and Grappeli's tip (it was in a printed interview somewhere) really helps bring the focus down to the fingers, where the rubber meets the road, so to speak.
# Posted on October 29th 2006 by Will CPT
Re: Fine fiddle tone in... how long?
Oh, and probably the biggest help to me in developing the tone I want to get is listening to fiddlers who have that tone in spades. I like a big, round, full, dark tone, so listening to Brendan Bulger, Oisin MacDiarmada, and Allison Krauss gives me a target tone to aim for. For me, it helps a lot to have a very specific sound that I want to emulate. I also listen to cello now and then just to fill me head with that kind of sonorous tone.
# Posted on October 29th 2006 by Will CPT
Re: Fine fiddle tone in... how long?
*in* the string, that's exactly what my teacher says. I can't do it consistently, but when I can, it's like my bow finds a way to keep the string vibrations going (if I'm not, it feels like I'm starting new vibrations with every note and there's this whole start/stop thing going on). Don't know if that makes any sense...
Another thing he's told me has to do with the nature of the music itself, that if I'm playing a reel, it's meant to be played with spirit and strength, to express the joviality of it, instead of weak little notes that hide in a corner somewhere.
The good news is that I've already seen glimpses of this kind of tone after only five months. How long it will take to get it consistently, on the other hand, will most surely be years. It's such a lovely thing to get the whole violin vibrating from note to note, it goes right through my collarbone. I think I'll go practice now!
# Posted on October 29th 2006 by kennedy
Re: Fine fiddle tone in... how long?
Kennedy, what's happening is that you're getting a glimpse of the view from that mountain top you're climbing towards. One day, it might be tomorrow, it might be in several month's time, you'll find yourself almost unexpectedly on the top of that particular mountain, and the tone production you've been seeking suddenly comes together. Like some other things in life, once it's there you won't lose it.
# Posted on October 29th 2006 by lazyhound
Re: Fine fiddle tone in... how long?
Another thing, when you're producing the tone right you'll feel the vibrations not only through the fiddle but also in the bow.
# Posted on October 29th 2006 by lazyhound
Re: Fine fiddle tone in... how long?
Ever been to a workshop or session and used your strings as a tune guide. As bizarre as it sounds, if you just hold your fiddle with your fingers lightly touching the strings you can feel your way around the tune as the string vibrate with the corresponding tones. I use it to freak out flute players.
# Posted on October 29th 2006 by Joze
Re: Fine fiddle tone in... how long?
Most revealing insights from one and all. As well, this from Denis Lanctot, who described "pulling the notes out of the fiddle" and making each note, no matter how short, have an "arc" - from softly at the start; to building the volume and depth at the centre; to decreasing to softly at the finish. So many sonic mysteries to be found in this little wooden marvel of engineering.
# Posted on October 30th 2006 by drone
Re: Fine fiddle tone in... how long?
I love Oisin Macdiarmadas' playing.
# Posted on October 31st 2006 by BE
Listen
That's a key thing too: listen to how you play, all the time, and keep the idea of a good tone in mind. It'll come quicker then, and without paying great attention to the sound you're making, the technical advice above won't do much.
I wish i'd figured that bit the first year I played fiddle, not the umpteenth.
# Posted on November 3rd 2006 by ewallace