One of my chums is looking for advice - he writes as follows:
"I need some help! I want to play with an Italian pianist who interprets the stave as do re mi fa so la ti do. Consequently, I can't write the chords above a tune as G, D, Am, D7 as they are meaningless in Italian. Can anyone tell me how to convert chords into tonic sol fa? Any help greatly appreciated."
I don't know of any standard notation for this sort of thing - any ideas, as I'd be interested too, just out of curiosity
This reminds me of the other night when I went to see the Celtic Fiddle Festival and there was this woman sitting in my row reading a Solfege book, and I could see that it had notation written out as well. I wondered what it could have had to do with the music we were about to see. Those classical types have a really convoluted way of coming to Irish music…
Is this pianist trying to play *Irish* music? And the guy has chords written above a tune, which I assume means there are written notes, and the pianist can’t read the notes? I’ve never heard of such a thing.
There must be a solfege website out there somewhere…
Ah, never mind, I think I understand what your friend is after---he wants the pianist to play the notes of the chords instead of the single melody notes. He could try writing them out in notation. It seems like it would lead to problems, though. You wouldn’t play accompaniment on a piano the way you would play it on a guitar, so even if the pianist had everything written out, it wouldn’t sound right.
Hmmm, sounds like maybe the pianist just doesn’t have an understanding of chord progressions vs playing written notes. If that’s true, then it’s much more than a simple notation problem and curable only by learning some chord theory and vamping technique.
I'm guessing your friend means that those ARE their note names. In a lot of countries, do, re, me, etc. are the note names, while the alphabetical names we call them are meaningless.
A major thing to know: C is ALWAYS do. Now, what follows is, I think accurate, but it might not be. I know the main notes are likely:
C = Do
D = Re
E = Mi
F = Fa
G = Sol
A = La
B = Ti
I know we here in America use the rest of the below as the scale, but I can't honestly find any listing of Italian solfege besides the above. You may have your friend ask the pianist for the entire system they use for note names. That would help.
C = Do ("doh")
C# = Di ("dee")
Db = Ra (like "hurrah")
D = Re ("ray")
D# = Ri ("ree")
Eb = Me ("may")
E = Mi ("mee")
F = Fa
F# = Fi ("fee")
Gb = Se ("say")
G = Sol ("so")
G# = Se ("see")
Ab = Le ("lay")
A = La
A# = Li ("lee")
Bb = Te ("tay")
B = Ti
Tonic solfa is independent of the key, so if you are in C then CDE is do re me but if you are in G then it's (pause while I count on my fingers) fa so la The keynote is always Do.
There are two seperate systems. Fixed DO is used in Europe and movable DO is taught in the USA. Movable DO is a 'theory concept' that fits all keys. Fixed DO is a set of note names.
In countries that use fixed do, do is indeed always C. From my understanding, Italy, like France, uses fixed do, hence my response.
The person referencing Tonic sol-fa is not talking about the right concept, since we're talking about Italy and not the USA or other countries that used ABC and moveable do.
Thank God no-one's mentioned THAT film! You know the one I mean - "The S**** of M****". It makes me cringe, and so far I've avoided seing no more than a few minutes of it when it comes up on television.
" The S... of M..."
Is that the Star of Munster"? I knew the tune was prolific but didn't know they made a movie from it. Who was the lead...Martin Hayes or Liz Carroll?
In an Italian tutor book I have in my possession the B is not Ti but Si (although this could be a regional thing like much in Italian). So a Bb would be written Sib. The chords are written as we do so a C major chord would be written Do, C7 would be written Do7 etc.
Domnull, kindly posted my question. Thank you all for your responses.
To clarify, my ceilidh band is loosing it's guitarist to the Orkney Islands. A poosible plan is to replace him with my concert pianist Italian girlfriend. While she can sight read concerti, she can't vamp at all. I can get melodies and guitar chords easily enough, but not full piano parts. As we just need bass and rhythm, the guitar chords will enable her to create a simple accompaniment until she develops her vaming technique. I just need guitar chords she can understand! Clearly, she wouldn't play like a guitar, but using the oom pah, typical of French Canadian piano accompaniment
In her case, C is always Doh. However, Italy has now moved to "Doh Mobile", where Doh is the key note.
Compo, you're right about "Si" instead of "Ti" - no drink with jam and bread for the Italians!
Conversion to tonic sol-fa ?
Conversion to tonic sol-fa ?
One of my chums is looking for advice - he writes as follows:
"I need some help! I want to play with an Italian pianist who interprets the stave as do re mi fa so la ti do. Consequently, I can't write the chords above a tune as G, D, Am, D7 as they are meaningless in Italian. Can anyone tell me how to convert chords into tonic sol fa? Any help greatly appreciated."
I don't know of any standard notation for this sort of thing - any ideas, as I'd be interested too, just out of curiosity
# Posted on October 24th 2006 by domnull
Re: Conversion to tonic sol-fa ?
Gian Marco??? where are you?!
# Posted on October 24th 2006 by domnull
Re: Conversion to tonic sol-fa ?
Er - depending on the key you are in, do, so, re minor and do7? Only joking
# Posted on October 24th 2006 by c.g.
Re: Conversion to tonic sol-fa ?
This reminds me of the other night when I went to see the Celtic Fiddle Festival and there was this woman sitting in my row reading a Solfege book, and I could see that it had notation written out as well. I wondered what it could have had to do with the music we were about to see. Those classical types have a really convoluted way of coming to Irish music…
Is this pianist trying to play *Irish* music? And the guy has chords written above a tune, which I assume means there are written notes, and the pianist can’t read the notes? I’ve never heard of such a thing.
There must be a solfege website out there somewhere…
# Posted on October 24th 2006 by kennedy
Re: Conversion to tonic sol-fa ?
Ah, never mind, I think I understand what your friend is after---he wants the pianist to play the notes of the chords instead of the single melody notes. He could try writing them out in notation. It seems like it would lead to problems, though. You wouldn’t play accompaniment on a piano the way you would play it on a guitar, so even if the pianist had everything written out, it wouldn’t sound right.
# Posted on October 24th 2006 by kennedy
Re: Conversion to tonic sol-fa ?
Hmmm, sounds like maybe the pianist just doesn’t have an understanding of chord progressions vs playing written notes. If that’s true, then it’s much more than a simple notation problem and curable only by learning some chord theory and vamping technique.
# Posted on October 24th 2006 by Bob himself
Re: Conversion to tonic sol-fa ?
I'm guessing your friend means that those ARE their note names. In a lot of countries, do, re, me, etc. are the note names, while the alphabetical names we call them are meaningless.
A major thing to know: C is ALWAYS do. Now, what follows is, I think accurate, but it might not be. I know the main notes are likely:
C = Do
D = Re
E = Mi
F = Fa
G = Sol
A = La
B = Ti
I know we here in America use the rest of the below as the scale, but I can't honestly find any listing of Italian solfege besides the above. You may have your friend ask the pianist for the entire system they use for note names. That would help.
C = Do ("doh")
C# = Di ("dee")
Db = Ra (like "hurrah")
D = Re ("ray")
D# = Ri ("ree")
Eb = Me ("may")
E = Mi ("mee")
F = Fa
F# = Fi ("fee")
Gb = Se ("say")
G = Sol ("so")
G# = Se ("see")
Ab = Le ("lay")
A = La
A# = Li ("lee")
Bb = Te ("tay")
B = Ti
# Posted on October 24th 2006 by Crysania
Re: Conversion to tonic sol-fa ?
C is not always Do (doh!)
Tonic solfa is independent of the key, so if you are in C then CDE is do re me but if you are in G then it's (pause while I count on my fingers) fa so la The keynote is always Do.
# Posted on October 24th 2006 by c.g.
Re: Conversion to tonic sol-fa ?
"Doh! Now I understand!" said Homer.
# Posted on October 24th 2006 by AlBrown
Re: Conversion to tonic sol-fa ?
There are two seperate systems. Fixed DO is used in Europe and movable DO is taught in the USA. Movable DO is a 'theory concept' that fits all keys. Fixed DO is a set of note names.
# Posted on October 24th 2006 by Plunkett.mi
Re: Conversion to tonic sol-fa ?
In countries that use fixed do, do is indeed always C. From my understanding, Italy, like France, uses fixed do, hence my response.
The person referencing Tonic sol-fa is not talking about the right concept, since we're talking about Italy and not the USA or other countries that used ABC and moveable do.
# Posted on October 24th 2006 by Crysania
Re: Conversion to tonic sol-fa ?
Thank God no-one's mentioned THAT film! You know the one I mean - "The S**** of M****". It makes me cringe, and so far I've avoided seing no more than a few minutes of it when it comes up on television.
# Posted on October 25th 2006 by lazyhound
Re: Conversion to tonic sol-fa ?
" The S... of M..."
Is that the Star of Munster"? I knew the tune was prolific but didn't know they made a movie from it. Who was the lead...Martin Hayes or Liz Carroll?
# Posted on October 25th 2006 by Greenwiggle
Re: Conversion to tonic sol-fa ?
A doh is always a C in Europe.
# Posted on October 25th 2006 by dafydd
Re: Conversion to tonic sol-fa ?
In an Italian tutor book I have in my possession the B is not Ti but Si (although this could be a regional thing like much in Italian). So a Bb would be written Sib. The chords are written as we do so a C major chord would be written Do, C7 would be written Do7 etc.
# Posted on October 25th 2006 by Compo
Re: Conversion to tonic sol-fa ?
Some other comments on this from the Mudcat contingency:
http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=95820&messages=9
# Posted on October 25th 2006 by domnull
Re: Conversion to tonic sol-fa ?
Greenwiggle, it can't possibly be the Star of Munster, the number of asterixes I typed in don't correspond!
# Posted on October 25th 2006 by lazyhound
Re: Conversion to tonic sol-fa ?
Your'e quite right Compo,it's si,not ti.
# Posted on October 25th 2006 by dafydd
Domnull, kindly posted my question. Thank you all for your responses.
To clarify, my ceilidh band is loosing it's guitarist to the Orkney Islands. A poosible plan is to replace him with my concert pianist Italian girlfriend. While she can sight read concerti, she can't vamp at all. I can get melodies and guitar chords easily enough, but not full piano parts. As we just need bass and rhythm, the guitar chords will enable her to create a simple accompaniment until she develops her vaming technique. I just need guitar chords she can understand! Clearly, she wouldn't play like a guitar, but using the oom pah, typical of French Canadian piano accompaniment
In her case, C is always Doh. However, Italy has now moved to "Doh Mobile", where Doh is the key note.
Compo, you're right about "Si" instead of "Ti" - no drink with jam and bread for the Italians!
# Posted on October 25th 2006 by Cod Fiddler
Re: Conversion to tonic sol-fa ?
What a rigmarole! Thank God I only have to use my ears, and thank God they are 'mobile'.
# Posted on October 25th 2006 by cluaintarbh