I'm sitting here in the US, in a very bluegrass dominated area, and I find myself worrying that I'm never going to really be able to get into ITM. I like bluegrass alright, although it's depressing and kind of boring. But there isn't really much of an ITM crowd in my area.
What's scares me more than that is there are people I could play with, but they only play from a book. They've got no feel for the music, the culture, or the story. They'd be just as happy playing Kleizmer as they would ITM. And they want to tell me that the way I learned "Britches Full of Stiches" is wrong, when I learned it in County Kerry and they learned it from a book and play it with no feeling. I don't know if I can get back to Ireland this year, and I'm hoping that I don't lose what I learned or that my studying what's available, bluegrass and old-Time isn't going to drown what I know.
Dear Ack,
Welcome to the club. Yeah, I've had that as well in Central Oz. Not complaining, just stating a fact. They just can't grasp that the dots don't tell the whole true story. I'm sure you'll keep what you learnt though. All the best.
Is it possible to make your "own" space? Start the "XYZ County Traditional Irish Music Club" (even if there's only one member to start with) and make it clear that the deal is, play by ear, listen to recordings of great players, etc etc.
Well said chadmills.
Learning by the dots is great to get the bones of the tune.
I find that the written music is only one persons interpretation.
Therefore If we all learnt from the same book it would be very boring indeed.Adding your own ornamentation and variations is what gives each individual player their style.
In every session that I go to most musicians play the tunes slightly different. That`s what makes this music of ours so exciting.
After all it is an oral tradition.
It's tough to know how to help you network without knowing where you are located.
I understand that it might be tough to write this stuff and then say where these folks are, but there are a lot of folks in your same situation, and there are ways, besides the use of this great site, to create networks and get support.
We usually drive two or three hours a couple of times a month to get enough ITM here in Indiana, and we're fortunate to be able to do it, but we also help folks in remote areas to get in contact with others, find tunes and players and keep in touch.
To some degree, it's like chadmills says, if there isn't a scene, someone could -become- the scene.
Thanks for the thoughts all. I am on the Penninsula, about half way between San Francisco and San Jose. I've been to a couple of sessions that focused on ITM, but they look like they're dying and I'm such a beginner that I don't feel like I have any business starting anything. Don't I need to be learning what the tradition is? A book is a wonderful thing, as are recordings, but it doesn't beat sitting and listening.
I re-read my post, and I sound really down on bluegrass and old-time. I do like them, but I really loved ITM, and I wish I could focus on it more. When I finish this bluegrass class in December and then the Old Time contest in Jan. (two things I'm up to my knees in) I think I will try to make a more concerted switch to what I really want to be hearing and playing. (If I hear one more song about hanging...)
I feel your pain. I am in west Michigan and there are precious few folks here playing ITM. It is kind of frustrating.
But there is a lot of recorded ITM in which to immerse yourself. Not the same visceral experience as having somebody right in front of you to inspire you, but way better than nothing.
I think that if you immerse yourself in listening to ITM to the point where you have really internalized the sound of it, particularly the music of performers who really inspire you, that you will not be at great risk of bluegrass or anything else displacing the ITM music from your mind.
I like bluegrass and old-time music just fine, but it's Kevin Burke that I hear echoing through my head when I am laying in bed falling asleep. In fact I think it's time to put some of his music on right now...
I, too, can relate. I moved to the greater St Louis metro east area from south-central Alabama last year... 'Bama's deep into the bluegrass thing, and country music is naturally a hit there, what with all those songs about pickup trucks, girlfriends/wives running off with the dog/friend/whiskey bottle, getting drunk, or maybe even one or two about a drunk pickup truck running off with the wife's dog... (note...not that I don't like Country music...well, I don't, really...but in a 1-hour span of watching CMT videos while on a treadmill one day at the gym, I'd say better than 2/3rds of the videos covered at least one of these topics...)
I tried to get something going with the Montgomery Celtic Music Society, but as a group they were more interested in bringing in groups to listen to than actually playing the music themselves.
There's life here in the St Louis area -- kind of surprising what with the large German concentration! But it's refreshing.
Ireland's 32, at 3920 Geary Blvd. (between 2nd and 3rd) in San Francisco, has a session on 2nd and last Mondays every month apparently, and there's a session in San Jose, at O'Flaherty's pub 25 North San Pedro every Tuesday. You could pop in and see what you think...
http://pweb.jps.net/~jgilder/plough.html is the Plough and Stars websitewith thier schedule. The sessions there are pretty good, sometimes great. Avoid the "slow sessions".
Hi, cathrynb -- didn't mean to snub anyone by my remark about St. Louis. I'd lived here before, from 1988 to mid 1990, and didn't even know the ITM scene was as well-established as it is. My move here last summer changed that impression dramatically. (do you live in this area, too?...)
And it wasn't just the German population...but the large and influential base of Italians, too...(former boss of mine who still lives in the area is of Italian heritage).
In other words, the more I open my eyes, the more I realize I don't know and need to learn. The challenge is learning it all.
I feel your pain meri! There is no one here. Those that do are juuust out of driving range (since I have to get a ride)...:(...what do is hang around here to contact other musicians with words, and get to sessions how and when I can...normally about once a year for me. Until then, I learn tunes from CDs and occasionally from the dots...but I only use the dots for common session tunes that I know will be played in any session I might have the ood luck to come across...my repertoire is dismal...but then since I know I'll hear them often I'll be able to follow along, but pick up little things as well...good luck!
A worry
A worry
I'm sitting here in the US, in a very bluegrass dominated area, and I find myself worrying that I'm never going to really be able to get into ITM. I like bluegrass alright, although it's depressing and kind of boring. But there isn't really much of an ITM crowd in my area.
What's scares me more than that is there are people I could play with, but they only play from a book. They've got no feel for the music, the culture, or the story. They'd be just as happy playing Kleizmer as they would ITM. And they want to tell me that the way I learned "Britches Full of Stiches" is wrong, when I learned it in County Kerry and they learned it from a book and play it with no feeling. I don't know if I can get back to Ireland this year, and I'm hoping that I don't lose what I learned or that my studying what's available, bluegrass and old-Time isn't going to drown what I know.
Ack.
# Posted on October 15th 2006 by Meri-pixie
Re: A worry
Dear Ack,
Welcome to the club. Yeah, I've had that as well in Central Oz. Not complaining, just stating a fact. They just can't grasp that the dots don't tell the whole true story. I'm sure you'll keep what you learnt though. All the best.
# Posted on October 15th 2006 by Clear Drops
Re: A worry
Is it possible to make your "own" space? Start the "XYZ County Traditional Irish Music Club" (even if there's only one member to start with) and make it clear that the deal is, play by ear, listen to recordings of great players, etc etc.
# Posted on October 15th 2006 by TomB-R
Re: A worry
Well said chadmills.
Learning by the dots is great to get the bones of the tune.
I find that the written music is only one persons interpretation.
Therefore If we all learnt from the same book it would be very boring indeed.Adding your own ornamentation and variations is what gives each individual player their style.
In every session that I go to most musicians play the tunes slightly different. That`s what makes this music of ours so exciting.
After all it is an oral tradition.
# Posted on October 15th 2006 by martonec
Re: A worry
It's tough to know how to help you network without knowing where you are located.
I understand that it might be tough to write this stuff and then say where these folks are, but there are a lot of folks in your same situation, and there are ways, besides the use of this great site, to create networks and get support.
We usually drive two or three hours a couple of times a month to get enough ITM here in Indiana, and we're fortunate to be able to do it, but we also help folks in remote areas to get in contact with others, find tunes and players and keep in touch.
To some degree, it's like chadmills says, if there isn't a scene, someone could -become- the scene.
stv
http://cdbaby.com/Culchies
# Posted on October 15th 2006 by stv culchie
Re: A worry
Meri-pixie, am I correct that you're on the SF Peninsula?
Is SF itself an easy drive for you? There's Ireland 92 (I think it's called that) and a session in the Haight on Sunday nights.
# Posted on October 15th 2006 by cathrynb
Re: A worry
Yes, Meri-pixie, where are you from? Maybe someone from the same area will see this post and hook you up with better players.
# Posted on October 15th 2006 by Craymcla
Re: A worry
Thanks for the thoughts all. I am on the Penninsula, about half way between San Francisco and San Jose. I've been to a couple of sessions that focused on ITM, but they look like they're dying and I'm such a beginner that I don't feel like I have any business starting anything. Don't I need to be learning what the tradition is? A book is a wonderful thing, as are recordings, but it doesn't beat sitting and listening.
I re-read my post, and I sound really down on bluegrass and old-time. I do like them, but I really loved ITM, and I wish I could focus on it more. When I finish this bluegrass class in December and then the Old Time contest in Jan. (two things I'm up to my knees in) I think I will try to make a more concerted switch to what I really want to be hearing and playing. (If I hear one more song about hanging...)
# Posted on October 16th 2006 by Meri-pixie
Re: A worry
I feel your pain. I am in west Michigan and there are precious few folks here playing ITM. It is kind of frustrating.
But there is a lot of recorded ITM in which to immerse yourself. Not the same visceral experience as having somebody right in front of you to inspire you, but way better than nothing.
I think that if you immerse yourself in listening to ITM to the point where you have really internalized the sound of it, particularly the music of performers who really inspire you, that you will not be at great risk of bluegrass or anything else displacing the ITM music from your mind.
I like bluegrass and old-time music just fine, but it's Kevin Burke that I hear echoing through my head when I am laying in bed falling asleep. In fact I think it's time to put some of his music on right now...
# Posted on October 16th 2006 by crazy_fingerz
Re: A worry
I, too, can relate. I moved to the greater St Louis metro east area from south-central Alabama last year... 'Bama's deep into the bluegrass thing, and country music is naturally a hit there, what with all those songs about pickup trucks, girlfriends/wives running off with the dog/friend/whiskey bottle, getting drunk, or maybe even one or two about a drunk pickup truck running off with the wife's dog...
(note...not that I don't like Country music...well, I don't, really...but in a 1-hour span of watching CMT videos while on a treadmill one day at the gym, I'd say better than 2/3rds of the videos covered at least one of these topics...)
I tried to get something going with the Montgomery Celtic Music Society, but as a group they were more interested in bringing in groups to listen to than actually playing the music themselves.
There's life here in the St Louis area -- kind of surprising what with the large German concentration! But it's refreshing.
# Posted on October 16th 2006 by pn5jn
Re: A worry
>There's life here in the St Louis area -- kind of surprising what with the large German concentration! But it's refreshing.<
Excuse me?
# Posted on October 16th 2006 by cathrynb
Re: A worry
Ireland's 32, at 3920 Geary Blvd. (between 2nd and 3rd) in San Francisco, has a session on 2nd and last Mondays every month apparently, and there's a session in San Jose, at O'Flaherty's pub 25 North San Pedro every Tuesday. You could pop in and see what you think...
# Posted on October 16th 2006 by E
Re: A worry
Correction: The session at O'Flaherty's is no longer going. There is a band that plays instead.
There is an open session at O'Flaherty's on Sunday nights, 5:30-8:00 or later.
# Posted on October 16th 2006 by cathrynb
Re: A worry
I just got an invitation to play at O'Flaherty's session tomorrow, and I can assure you I am not in a band!
# Posted on October 16th 2006 by E
Re: A worry
http://pweb.jps.net/~jgilder/plough.html is the Plough and Stars websitewith thier schedule. The sessions there are pretty good, sometimes great. Avoid the "slow sessions".
# Posted on October 16th 2006 by Farr
Re: A worry
Update: The O'Flaherty's situation is kind of in flux at the moment, and no one is sure how it will end up.
The Sunday session still happens, though.
# Posted on October 17th 2006 by cathrynb
Re: A worry
With the Plough and the Stars, how do I find out the time? The only ones I can manage are the Sunday sessions, BTW.
# Posted on October 17th 2006 by cathrynb
Re: A worry
Well, it's good to know what's out there. I'll check out the O'Flaherty's session, and also the Ireland's 32 one.
I'm sure I can work out at least once a month until February.
# Posted on October 17th 2006 by Meri-pixie
Re: A worry
At the Plough, everything starts at 9pm.
# Posted on October 17th 2006 by Phantom Button
Re: A worry
Hi, cathrynb -- didn't mean to snub anyone by my remark about St. Louis. I'd lived here before, from 1988 to mid 1990, and didn't even know the ITM scene was as well-established as it is. My move here last summer changed that impression dramatically. (do you live in this area, too?...)
And it wasn't just the German population...but the large and influential base of Italians, too...(former boss of mine who still lives in the area is of Italian heritage).
In other words, the more I open my eyes, the more I realize I don't know and need to learn. The challenge is learning it all.
# Posted on October 17th 2006 by pn5jn
Re: A worry
Thanks, Phantom B. I think that given the distances involved, that's past my bedtime. Ah well. Maybe someday.
# Posted on October 18th 2006 by cathrynb
Re: A worry
I feel your pain meri! There is no one here. Those that do are juuust out of driving range (since I have to get a ride)...:(...what do is hang around here to contact other musicians with words, and get to sessions how and when I can...normally about once a year for me. Until then, I learn tunes from CDs and occasionally from the dots...but I only use the dots for common session tunes that I know will be played in any session I might have the ood luck to come across...my repertoire is dismal...but then since I know I'll hear them often I'll be able to follow along, but pick up little things as well...good luck!
# Posted on October 19th 2006 by possumawesome