Well I was sat with the lads as we planned this gig we've got and they were once again bemoaning our lack of percussion. Now they keep dropping hints as I'm only occupied for short periods of time when I've got my mouth open. ( insert what ever joke you care to make here, I can already think of several),
that I should take up the bohdran.
Now, given certain misgivings about my abilities to learn the thing and not wanting to let the lads down, I have the advantage that I am totally emerged in the music and have a reasonable ear ( the rest of me looks pretty grotty though).
So I'm looking at starting in a month or so when I've got on top of work, selling the house and writing the Irish Centre web site.
So where do you suggest I start. Suggested books ? Which cds might give a simple rythmn to start with - beginners reels and jigs ?
Any suggestions welcome - although I'm sure that many of you won't want to encourage another trainee bohdran player.
I don't play the bodhran myself, but a friend of mine started out with a book/cd and dvd with Conor Long available from Waltons. There are also a dvd tutor with Tommy Hayes.
After learning the the basic listen to recordings with great bodhran players:
Kevin Coneff (the chieftains)
Johnny McDonagh (De Dannan)
Tommy Hayes (stockton's wing)
Donal Lunny (The bothy band)
Colm Murphy
Bodhran was my first introduction to ITM, and I will be honest: I couldn't learn from a book to save me @r$e! I was lucky to talk to a couple of decebt players who helped me learn the proper technique. I played along with every CD that I owned. I thought I was pretty good, then a year later I met Brendan Monaghan, former All Ireland Champion on the bodhran (!) and he showed me what I was still doing wrong and helped me get even better.
Now, having been on melody instruments and guitar exclusively for the last couple of years, my bodhran playing isn't quite up to scratch, but the foundation I built is still there.
Long story short... no substitute for hands on instruction from someone who is already doing it.
BTW, there were no DVDs when I was learning, so I cannot speak to their value... maybe they would help more than just a CD!
Well to make myself clear:
Listen to recordings - get inspired
THEN take up the bodhran
Learn the basic
Then try to learn something from the players mentioned from listening to their recordings
The best way to get started is by one to one tuition if possible. You can't ask a book or a CD questions. You could try a good DVD I suppose, Tradlad sugests one or two.
By the way, I'm going to be in Sheffield this weekend, check your e-mail.
A good way to start out might be a Bodhran Video. I found one
by Chris Caswell, through Lark in the Morning (music store on the web). The thing I liked about Chris Caswell's video is that he really slowed it down with clear demonstration of what I think is the "Kerry Style". He also demonstrates how to play the spoons,
the Bones (several different types).
After the Chris Caswell video tape someone loaned me the video tape by Tommy Hayes who demonstrates more advanced techniques -- I've decided to stick with the Kerry style. Now I see Steafan Hannigan has a new DVD - He plays the Kerry Style and I actually started out with his booklet and a companion CD.
Video Learning is really helpful !
-- Boron
I have said this many times before, but will repeat myself. It is impossible to really learn a bodhran through books and DVDs. You are likely to dislocate your arm, following the patterns that emerge in the books. It is impossible for a book to teach you even the basic rhythm.
Get a piece of cardboard, an empty cereal packet will do. Hold it like a bodhran. Now turn your other hand to a ninety degree angle to the skin, knuckles facing the skin. Literally scrape the knuckle of the index finger up and down the drum, because it is an up and down motion you want, not in and out which most beginners do when they lift a stick.
Try to get a basic jig rhythm, single boom, followed by a dee-diddly-ee. A reel is double boom, followed by dee-diddly-ee. Now if you think that is confusing wait until you see a book. Any semi-decent player can show you how to hold your hand, that is the difficullt bit.
If you get a sort of basic rhytm, get a stick, and use one side as the stick is now just an extension of that finger.
Listen to loads of CDs and play along. Persevere, get advice from a player, and it will come.
The old ceilidh bands play at the perfect speed, so are recommended for beginners. Sessions are usually a bit faster, as there are no dancers.
Kevin Coneff is a better singer than me, that's why he is in the Chieftains.
Cieran Boyle is in the Rotherham, Yorks area, and attends the sessions there, he also gives lessons. He is ex all Ireland champion. Stefan Hanigan has a good dvd. I used chieftans and dedannan cd`s to assist me when i started. use scottish pipe band music to help improve timing, knowing hundreds of the tunes helps imensely.
As both a bodhran player (and bones) and a flute/whistle player, I want to make a distinction in how to learn. Everyone is different, of course, but I think the more formal training you have, the better flute player you will be. Bodhran, on the other hand, is less about technique than having a good ear and an intuitive sense of what will complement a tune. So my advice is to have someone show you the basics to get you started. After that, play with every recording you own where bodhran is appropriate and develop your own sens of what sounds good. I have seldom seen a bodhran player improve much over time - they either get it or they don't. After a few months of consistent playing, you will probably be as good as you will ever be. The same cannot be said of almost any other instrument. That's my opinion, anyway.
The above reminds me of one night at a session when an admiring punter asked our banjo/whistle playing virtuoso;
"I would love to learn the whistle, how do you play it?" to be politely told "You ##### blow it".
Blimey, sense indeed. And complete agreement from me for a change. Technically, the thing is so easy that 99.9% of one's ability on the thing is made up entirely of your aural knowledge of the music and your active ability to be able to hear how well you are contributing. Very good.
Actually, come to think of it (and as bliss says, 26 languages please) I have to disagree slightly with Ailin, I think the same can be said for every other instrument in this tradition. I agree that it may take a bit longer to learn the technical things of scraping a fiddle or squeezing a bag, but the basic premise still stands. In that once you have the technique it amounts to 0.01% of your ability to actually pay the music
Very important if you plan to learn (or not) the bodhran: learn the bodhran jokes. Then you can tell them yourself and pre-empt the detractors.
Cereal box? I guess that would work, too. I've used empty pizza boxes and wooden spoons, which work rather well, though I suspect pizza boxes are more common in North America. In my bodhran-playing days (before the drugs and therapy) I sometimes taught workshops with unused pizza boxes cadged from the local pizza purveyor, which I could give away if I didn't feel like transporting them home.
But seriously -- learn the tunes! Listen to the CDs before you start practicing to them. Hum along if you like. If you want to be a good bodhran player, you need to listen to the music while you're playing, and having heard it before helps you hear what's going on. What Ailin and Ilig said.
And if you're practicing to CDs, take frequent breaks. I got pretty good on the ol' goatskin by practicing to recordings, but playing without frequent breaks destroyed my right hand. It wasn't really the drugs and therapy that ended my bodhran playing, it was nerve damage.
Learn it because you want to, not because others want you to!
And despite what Ailin said, practice does help you improve, even after a few months of consistent playing, as well as listening, not necessarily to other bodhran players, but to the music without bodhran accompaniment.
That's an interesting insight in to the strange and topsy turvy world of bodhran playing there. Correct me if I didn't get this right, but you say that listening to the music without bodhran accompaniment will improve your bodhran playing? I think I understand where you are coming from, you have to understand the music first, I can cope with that. But it's the confession that the music is better understood without the bodhran that confuses me. Are you really admitting that the bodhran gets in the way of the music?
Thanks for all your help. I will certainly take your advice and guidance onboard. I think I will start the grand project at the beginning of December when I've got a couple of things out of the way.
I do know Cieran Boyle and i might consider approaching him in the new year but I think I might do a wee bit more research first as I would be a complete beginner.
Great string guys some interesting points of view and constructive! thats a result! John i am in Bradford... i know i should move!! i fancy a trip to sheffield ill give you a few pointers and we'll have a tune and maybe a song.
contact steve@signagraphic.com
Not quite, llig.
What I mean is that as a learner, you learn more about the music if there's no bodhran there. It can distract in some cases.
Playing along with tunes where there is no bodhran already is also far easier, because you don't find yourself trying to match the other guy.
I'm coming over all "pure drop" lately after a Johnny McDonagh workshop!
Possibly learning the bohdran
Possibly learning the bohdran
Hi
Well I was sat with the lads as we planned this gig we've got and they were once again bemoaning our lack of percussion. Now they keep dropping hints as I'm only occupied for short periods of time when I've got my mouth open. ( insert what ever joke you care to make here, I can already think of several),
that I should take up the bohdran.
Now, given certain misgivings about my abilities to learn the thing and not wanting to let the lads down, I have the advantage that I am totally emerged in the music and have a reasonable ear ( the rest of me looks pretty grotty though).
So I'm looking at starting in a month or so when I've got on top of work, selling the house and writing the Irish Centre web site.
So where do you suggest I start. Suggested books ? Which cds might give a simple rythmn to start with - beginners reels and jigs ?
Any suggestions welcome - although I'm sure that many of you won't want to encourage another trainee bohdran player.
Thanks
J
# Posted on October 4th 2006 by jfother
Re: Possibly learning the bohdran
I don't play the bodhran myself, but a friend of mine started out with a book/cd and dvd with Conor Long available from Waltons. There are also a dvd tutor with Tommy Hayes.
After learning the the basic listen to recordings with great bodhran players:
Kevin Coneff (the chieftains)
Johnny McDonagh (De Dannan)
Tommy Hayes (stockton's wing)
Donal Lunny (The bothy band)
Colm Murphy
# Posted on October 4th 2006 by TradLad
Re: Possibly learning the bohdran
Bodhran was my first introduction to ITM, and I will be honest: I couldn't learn from a book to save me @r$e! I was lucky to talk to a couple of decebt players who helped me learn the proper technique. I played along with every CD that I owned. I thought I was pretty good, then a year later I met Brendan Monaghan, former All Ireland Champion on the bodhran (!) and he showed me what I was still doing wrong and helped me get even better.
Now, having been on melody instruments and guitar exclusively for the last couple of years, my bodhran playing isn't quite up to scratch, but the foundation I built is still there.
Long story short... no substitute for hands on instruction from someone who is already doing it.
BTW, there were no DVDs when I was learning, so I cannot speak to their value... maybe they would help more than just a CD!
# Posted on October 4th 2006 by IrishJim
red rag, bull, red rag, bull, red rag, bull
Bull, red rag, bull, red rag, bull, red rag, bull, red rag, bull.
Though I was tickled by the, "Learn the basics, and THEN listen to recordings". Tee he
# Posted on October 4th 2006 by ...
Re: Possibly learning the bohdran
Well to make myself clear:
Listen to recordings - get inspired
THEN take up the bodhran
Learn the basic
Then try to learn something from the players mentioned from listening to their recordings
# Posted on October 4th 2006 by TradLad
Re: Possibly learning the bohdran
The best way to get started is by one to one tuition if possible. You can't ask a book or a CD questions. You could try a good DVD I suppose, Tradlad sugests one or two.
By the way, I'm going to be in Sheffield this weekend, check your e-mail.
# Posted on October 4th 2006 by curlew
Re: Possibly learning the bohdran
There are also a cd-rom tutorial from madfortrad.
The teacher is Frank Topey who play with the band Nomos
# Posted on October 4th 2006 by TradLad
Re: Possibly learning the bohdran
I liked 'The Bodhran Video' by Steafan Hannigan (now available in DVD). See http://www.ossian.ie/
# Posted on October 4th 2006 by Enigmatist
Re: Possibly learning the bohdran
I play many instruments... guitar, banjo, mandolin, fiddle, whistle but the hardest Ive tried would be the bodhran (next to the fiddle.)
It's NOT easy to be a good bodhran player... keep that in mind
# Posted on October 4th 2006 by The Merry Highlander
Re: Possibly learning the bohdran
A good way to start out might be a Bodhran Video. I found one
by Chris Caswell, through Lark in the Morning (music store on the web). The thing I liked about Chris Caswell's video is that he really slowed it down with clear demonstration of what I think is the "Kerry Style". He also demonstrates how to play the spoons,
the Bones (several different types).
After the Chris Caswell video tape someone loaned me the video tape by Tommy Hayes who demonstrates more advanced techniques -- I've decided to stick with the Kerry style. Now I see Steafan Hannigan has a new DVD - He plays the Kerry Style and I actually started out with his booklet and a companion CD.
Video Learning is really helpful !
-- Boron
# Posted on October 4th 2006 by b0dhran
Re: Possibly learning the bohdran
I have said this many times before, but will repeat myself. It is impossible to really learn a bodhran through books and DVDs. You are likely to dislocate your arm, following the patterns that emerge in the books. It is impossible for a book to teach you even the basic rhythm.
Get a piece of cardboard, an empty cereal packet will do. Hold it like a bodhran. Now turn your other hand to a ninety degree angle to the skin, knuckles facing the skin. Literally scrape the knuckle of the index finger up and down the drum, because it is an up and down motion you want, not in and out which most beginners do when they lift a stick.
Try to get a basic jig rhythm, single boom, followed by a dee-diddly-ee. A reel is double boom, followed by dee-diddly-ee. Now if you think that is confusing wait until you see a book. Any semi-decent player can show you how to hold your hand, that is the difficullt bit.
If you get a sort of basic rhytm, get a stick, and use one side as the stick is now just an extension of that finger.
Listen to loads of CDs and play along. Persevere, get advice from a player, and it will come.
The old ceilidh bands play at the perfect speed, so are recommended for beginners. Sessions are usually a bit faster, as there are no dancers.
Kevin Coneff is a better singer than me, that's why he is in the Chieftains.
# Posted on October 4th 2006 by bodhran bliss
Re: Possibly learning the bohdran
Cieran Boyle is in the Rotherham, Yorks area, and attends the sessions there, he also gives lessons. He is ex all Ireland champion. Stefan Hanigan has a good dvd. I used chieftans and dedannan cd`s to assist me when i started. use scottish pipe band music to help improve timing, knowing hundreds of the tunes helps imensely.
# Posted on October 4th 2006 by Dave_
Re: Possibly learning the bohdran
As both a bodhran player (and bones) and a flute/whistle player, I want to make a distinction in how to learn. Everyone is different, of course, but I think the more formal training you have, the better flute player you will be. Bodhran, on the other hand, is less about technique than having a good ear and an intuitive sense of what will complement a tune. So my advice is to have someone show you the basics to get you started. After that, play with every recording you own where bodhran is appropriate and develop your own sens of what sounds good. I have seldom seen a bodhran player improve much over time - they either get it or they don't. After a few months of consistent playing, you will probably be as good as you will ever be. The same cannot be said of almost any other instrument. That's my opinion, anyway.
# Posted on October 4th 2006 by Ailin
Re: Possibly learning the bohdran
Wonderful. The above is the best instruction manual ever written for potential bodhran players. It should be published in 26 languages.
Absolutely wonderful.
# Posted on October 4th 2006 by bodhran bliss
Re: Possibly learning the bohdran
1. Get bodhran
2. Hit it.
There you go, you're a bodhran player already!
# Posted on October 4th 2006 by mcknowall
Re: Possibly learning the bohdran
The above reminds me of one night at a session when an admiring punter asked our banjo/whistle playing virtuoso;
"I would love to learn the whistle, how do you play it?" to be politely told "You ##### blow it".
# Posted on October 4th 2006 by bodhran bliss
Re: Possibly learning the bohdran
Blimey, sense indeed. And complete agreement from me for a change. Technically, the thing is so easy that 99.9% of one's ability on the thing is made up entirely of your aural knowledge of the music and your active ability to be able to hear how well you are contributing. Very good.
# Posted on October 4th 2006 by ...
Re: Possibly learning the bohdran
Actually, come to think of it (and as bliss says, 26 languages please) I have to disagree slightly with Ailin, I think the same can be said for every other instrument in this tradition. I agree that it may take a bit longer to learn the technical things of scraping a fiddle or squeezing a bag, but the basic premise still stands. In that once you have the technique it amounts to 0.01% of your ability to actually pay the music
# Posted on October 4th 2006 by ...
Re: Possibly learning the bohdran
Very important if you plan to learn (or not) the bodhran: learn the bodhran jokes. Then you can tell them yourself and pre-empt the detractors.
Cereal box? I guess that would work, too. I've used empty pizza boxes and wooden spoons, which work rather well, though I suspect pizza boxes are more common in North America. In my bodhran-playing days (before the drugs and therapy) I sometimes taught workshops with unused pizza boxes cadged from the local pizza purveyor, which I could give away if I didn't feel like transporting them home.
But seriously -- learn the tunes! Listen to the CDs before you start practicing to them. Hum along if you like. If you want to be a good bodhran player, you need to listen to the music while you're playing, and having heard it before helps you hear what's going on. What Ailin and Ilig said.
And if you're practicing to CDs, take frequent breaks. I got pretty good on the ol' goatskin by practicing to recordings, but playing without frequent breaks destroyed my right hand. It wasn't really the drugs and therapy that ended my bodhran playing, it was nerve damage.
# Posted on October 5th 2006 by Tracie
Re: Possibly learning the bohdran
Learn it because you want to, not because others want you to!
And despite what Ailin said, practice does help you improve, even after a few months of consistent playing, as well as listening, not necessarily to other bodhran players, but to the music without bodhran accompaniment.
# Posted on October 5th 2006 by RockyRoader
Re: Possibly learning the bohdran
That's an interesting insight in to the strange and topsy turvy world of bodhran playing there. Correct me if I didn't get this right, but you say that listening to the music without bodhran accompaniment will improve your bodhran playing? I think I understand where you are coming from, you have to understand the music first, I can cope with that. But it's the confession that the music is better understood without the bodhran that confuses me. Are you really admitting that the bodhran gets in the way of the music?
# Posted on October 5th 2006 by ...
Re: Possibly learning the bohdran
www.madfortrad.com tutorials are great.
I started on Bodhran years ago, and now play bouzouki and mandolin, but am now learning whistle so i only have to carry one case to sessions!
# Posted on October 5th 2006 by Sugarfoot Jack
Re: Possibly learning the bohdran
Thanks for all your help. I will certainly take your advice and guidance onboard. I think I will start the grand project at the beginning of December when I've got a couple of things out of the way.
I do know Cieran Boyle and i might consider approaching him in the new year but I think I might do a wee bit more research first as I would be a complete beginner.
Thanks again
J
# Posted on October 6th 2006 by jfother
Re: Possibly learning the bohdran
Great string guys some interesting points of view and constructive! thats a result! John i am in Bradford... i know i should move!! i fancy a trip to sheffield ill give you a few pointers and we'll have a tune and maybe a song.
contact steve@signagraphic.com
# Posted on October 8th 2006 by bodhranman
Re: Possibly learning the bohdran
Not quite, llig.
What I mean is that as a learner, you learn more about the music if there's no bodhran there. It can distract in some cases.
Playing along with tunes where there is no bodhran already is also far easier, because you don't find yourself trying to match the other guy.
I'm coming over all "pure drop" lately after a Johnny McDonagh workshop!
# Posted on October 9th 2006 by RockyRoader
Re: Possibly learning the bohdran
So two points there:
(and sorry for the late reply, I've been away)
Playing along with tunes is not contributing.
And "you learn more about the music if there's no bodhran there".
??
# Posted on October 9th 2006 by ...
Re: Possibly learning the bohdran
Yes it is.
Yes. A lot of the time.
# Posted on October 10th 2006 by RockyRoader
Re: Possibly learning the bohdran
blimey, progress at last.
Does anyone else agree?
# Posted on October 11th 2006 by ...