is it a case of playing through the music first, or listening to a tune many times. I find it much easier if i know the tune in my head and have the music as a reference! what about all you guys?
Most people here would advise you against learning tunes from the music at all and insist that the "traditional", best, or whatever way do it is by ear.
I don't strictly hold by that view and my repertoire would be much smaller if i learned tunes exclusively by ear. However, I would agree that listening to others playing tunes whether in a session, at a concert or from CDs is the best way and it *is* much better to have the tune "in your head" before you start. If you are a "good ear player", you can often just play the tune straight away anyway and the written or recorded music is just a reference ..for those tricky bits that might sound a bit elusive although most times these ornaments and subtle variations are never written down, in any case.
Generally, why would you *want* to learn a tune unless it was "in your head" to certain extent in the first place i.e you like it.... ?
There's situations, of course, when you have to play with others (outwith sessions) and are required to learn tunes for a performance. So, music can be a very useful tool there. However, you should still be listening to what your colleagues are actually playing.
In a session situation, you can (and often should) "sit out" a tune if you don't know it. I've given up going out of my way to learn every tune I hear. If i like it and its "in my head" as you say, the tune will either come to me or I'll make that extra special effort to learn it. However, some may be floating around for years before this happens while there will be others that I'll possibly never get around to learning.
I suppose we must all try to learn quite a few tunes to begin with but I think most of us get to a stage when we don't force the learning process quite so much.
If I read/play through a new tune and can still remember bits of it the next day, I consider it worth learning. If it is still in the memory a month later, it must be a good tune (probably the sort you can play to death for a spell, forget, then resurect a year later).
To my mind, there are tunes that are fun to play but unmemorable - are they worth learning, or do you resort to the dots? ( probably the latter)
Geoff, I sometimes browse through books myself and, like yourself, find that some of them will "click with me". In many cases, it's because I recognise them from somewhere else and then I'll often go on to learn them. Often when I revisit a book, different tunes seem to "jump out". Perhaps, I've heard them played by others in the meantime or they've just becoming more familiar because I've tried them a second time myself. Anyway, my general theory about them being "in your head" first still seems to apply even when learning tunes from books.
I listen to cds and other people playing. I learn the one's that I like by ear, generally slowing them down using Transcribe. That's not because I'm a learn by ear fascist, it's just that that's what comes easiest to me (although being a natural ear-learner I obviously agree with those people who say it's the only way to learn, mostly because the dots never show the variations and all the little performance do-dads that make it the real thing).
All that aside, it may just be a blind prejudice of mine because it's not so easy for me to pick up and hold a tune from the dots, although i know people who are the exact opposite. I agree with Geoff that the tune needs to be a good one to stick. You know every now and then iI'll compose a tune, but none of them have ever been good enough for me to remember!
I've never got the hang of reading the dots. All has to be by ear, and as others have said, it's got to be note perfect in my head before I can pick up the mando and play it... This is a pain in the a sometimes. I'd really like to increase my repertoire some more. Once I've learned a tune, my fiddle playing friend plays it straight off the sheet music... damn
"my fiddle playing friend plays it straight off the sheet music"
Yes, but he/she is only playing what is written down on the sheet music and not necessarily how you or anyone else might play the tune. So, your version might be more accurate or, at least, closer to that which is normally played.
nope, its a tune written for Sandy Broon of the Blue Lamp, Aberdeen i believe, can play little bits of it but, would...as ever....like the music to be more confident! thanks anyway though!
I think it's always going to be a benefit for learning to play a tune if you already have it in your head how the tune goes. Hearing it in person or from a CD or whatever.
When I am learning a tune from written music (don't crucify me) I probably end up playing it from the dots about 5 or 10 times in a row. That gets me familiar with how it goes, both the mechanics of how I move my hands as well as the melody. I make a conscious effort to listen to the melody and internalize it. Usually the trad tunes are built out of just a few phrases so I just try to latch onto what the key phrases are.
Then I start challenging myself to play without the dots. After maybe an hour or two of trying it from memory and the plugging holes by referring back to the dots, the tune is generally lodged in my head pretty well.
Then, the next day I come back and play it again, and usually it is kind of muddled so I play it from sheet music again a few times and then again go from memory. After a few go rounds of this over several days, it is usually fairly cemented in place, although I have to remember to play it from time to time or it will fade away. Use or lose and all that.
I am jealous of people who can pick up a tune by ear when it is being played full speed at a session. I have never actually met such a person but rumor has it that they exist.
Listen to the tune till you can sing or whistle it.
Use a product like the "Amazing Slow Downer" app to pick up bits you have trouble hearing on the recording.
Use the dots to check against if you JUST CAN'T figure out a passage.
Play the tune VERY SLOWLY (60 BPM or less) until your fingers know where to go.
Increase the metronome by 20 BPM, and play it at this speed till it feels comfortable. Repeat, bumping the metronome by 10-20 BPM until up to "session speed."
Another trick that will REALLY hammer a tune home in your head: take a recorded tune and transcribe it in a notation program like Songworks. By the time you get the transcription right, you'll have played the tune achingly slowly 50 to 100 times. You'll know it note perfect.
I agree with a lot of these, but especially with the "slow it down" approach. Obviously you need to know what the tune is supposed to sound like. I can read dots, but if not, then ABC is helpful.
I try to tackle tunes in parts, learning each one until it is ingrained and then adding the next part. For jigs, I usually set the metronome to 60 BPM (as stated above), and play the part through 5 times. The I bump it up to 63 BPM, play 5 times, bump to 66 BPM, and play it five more times. Then I come back the next day and start on 63 BPM and repeat the process. By the time I have the whole tune, I go back to 60 BPM and play the whole thing through 5 times, and you can see where this goes. By the time I am up to 120 BPM, my fingers do not go the wrong way.
If the tune is part of a set, I make sure to learn the last tune in the set, and then work forward.
Now, I do this more for performance than for sessions, so YMMV.
"Transcribe! " is the one I use. I use a mac version but they also have windows and linux versions. You can obtain Transcribe! as a download from the Seventh String website at http://www.seventhstring.com. You don't need to register or pay to do this.
I agree with KC Gross. I can hear a new tune in session and sing along to myself (and mentally play it on keyboard or work out anglo fingering).
If I can sing it, I can play it, so second or third time though, I am playing (hopefully most of) it.
Providing I do it immediately, I can also write it down.
The trick is to be able to play anything you can sing to yourself, and you can teach yourself to do it by practising listening to 2 bars and singing it back to yourself, gradually working up to 8 bars at a time.
Before computers and the like, I taught myself to do it by writing dots down from taped radio programmes.
Gersfanno1, check out - www.ronimusic.com - for Amazing Slow Downer. Pay one subscription fee and it's yours for life. Excellent not only for learning in front of the computer (yuck) but also for burning CDs of slowed down tunes - which is mighty helpful! (Beware - you'll go through CD blanks like crazy.) Great support staff, as well. Good luck! Lauri
I just thought I'd drop a line to agree with "ger the Rigger"and add A vote for seventhstring.It makes learning tunes very easy,time consuming but very easy.Once you have slowed it down and done the dots your fingers will fly.
Tips for Learning new tunes!
Tips for Learning new tunes!
How do you guys all learn you tunes?
is it a case of playing through the music first, or listening to a tune many times. I find it much easier if i know the tune in my head and have the music as a reference! what about all you guys?
any tips?
# Posted on October 2nd 2006 by Gersfanno1
Re: Tips for Learning new tunes!
Most people here would advise you against learning tunes from the music at all and insist that the "traditional", best, or whatever way do it is by ear.
I don't strictly hold by that view and my repertoire would be much smaller if i learned tunes exclusively by ear. However, I would agree that listening to others playing tunes whether in a session, at a concert or from CDs is the best way and it *is* much better to have the tune "in your head" before you start. If you are a "good ear player", you can often just play the tune straight away anyway and the written or recorded music is just a reference ..for those tricky bits that might sound a bit elusive although most times these ornaments and subtle variations are never written down, in any case.
Generally, why would you *want* to learn a tune unless it was "in your head" to certain extent in the first place i.e you like it.... ?
There's situations, of course, when you have to play with others (outwith sessions) and are required to learn tunes for a performance. So, music can be a very useful tool there. However, you should still be listening to what your colleagues are actually playing.
In a session situation, you can (and often should) "sit out" a tune if you don't know it. I've given up going out of my way to learn every tune I hear. If i like it and its "in my head" as you say, the tune will either come to me or I'll make that extra special effort to learn it. However, some may be floating around for years before this happens while there will be others that I'll possibly never get around to learning.
I suppose we must all try to learn quite a few tunes to begin with but I think most of us get to a stage when we don't force the learning process quite so much.
# Posted on October 2nd 2006 by Johannes J
Re: Tips for Learning new tunes!
If I read/play through a new tune and can still remember bits of it the next day, I consider it worth learning. If it is still in the memory a month later, it must be a good tune (probably the sort you can play to death for a spell, forget, then resurect a year later).
To my mind, there are tunes that are fun to play but unmemorable - are they worth learning, or do you resort to the dots? ( probably the latter)
# Posted on October 2nd 2006 by geoffwright
Re: Tips for Learning new tunes!
By the way, Gersfanno, could tune No 1 in your request list be this one?
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/3919
# Posted on October 2nd 2006 by Johannes J
Re: Tips for Learning new tunes!
Geoff, I sometimes browse through books myself and, like yourself, find that some of them will "click with me". In many cases, it's because I recognise them from somewhere else and then I'll often go on to learn them. Often when I revisit a book, different tunes seem to "jump out". Perhaps, I've heard them played by others in the meantime or they've just becoming more familiar because I've tried them a second time myself. Anyway, my general theory about them being "in your head" first still seems to apply even when learning tunes from books.
# Posted on October 2nd 2006 by Johannes J
Re: Tips for Learning new tunes!
I listen to cds and other people playing. I learn the one's that I like by ear, generally slowing them down using Transcribe. That's not because I'm a learn by ear fascist, it's just that that's what comes easiest to me (although being a natural ear-learner I obviously agree with those people who say it's the only way to learn, mostly because the dots never show the variations and all the little performance do-dads that make it the real thing).
All that aside, it may just be a blind prejudice of mine because it's not so easy for me to pick up and hold a tune from the dots, although i know people who are the exact opposite. I agree with Geoff that the tune needs to be a good one to stick. You know every now and then iI'll compose a tune, but none of them have ever been good enough for me to remember!
# Posted on October 2nd 2006 by Ger the Rigger
Re: Tips for Learning new tunes!
I've never got the hang of reading the dots. All has to be by ear, and as others have said, it's got to be note perfect in my head before I can pick up the mando and play it... This is a pain in the a sometimes. I'd really like to increase my repertoire some more. Once I've learned a tune, my fiddle playing friend plays it straight off the sheet music... damn
# Posted on October 2nd 2006 by stripthewillow
Re: Tips for Learning new tunes!
"my fiddle playing friend plays it straight off the sheet music"
Yes, but he/she is only playing what is written down on the sheet music and not necessarily how you or anyone else might play the tune. So, your version might be more accurate or, at least, closer to that which is normally played.
# Posted on October 2nd 2006 by Johannes J
Re: Tips for Learning new tunes!
Scotsman,
nope, its a tune written for Sandy Broon of the Blue Lamp, Aberdeen i believe, can play little bits of it but, would...as ever....like the music to be more confident! thanks anyway though!
# Posted on October 2nd 2006 by Gersfanno1
Re: Tips for Learning new tunes!
Ah, I have actually heard of that one too. I'll keep an eye out for it.
An amazing pub, by the way.
# Posted on October 2nd 2006 by Johannes J
Re: Tips for Learning new tunes!
I think it's always going to be a benefit for learning to play a tune if you already have it in your head how the tune goes. Hearing it in person or from a CD or whatever.
When I am learning a tune from written music (don't crucify me) I probably end up playing it from the dots about 5 or 10 times in a row. That gets me familiar with how it goes, both the mechanics of how I move my hands as well as the melody. I make a conscious effort to listen to the melody and internalize it. Usually the trad tunes are built out of just a few phrases so I just try to latch onto what the key phrases are.
Then I start challenging myself to play without the dots. After maybe an hour or two of trying it from memory and the plugging holes by referring back to the dots, the tune is generally lodged in my head pretty well.
Then, the next day I come back and play it again, and usually it is kind of muddled so I play it from sheet music again a few times and then again go from memory. After a few go rounds of this over several days, it is usually fairly cemented in place, although I have to remember to play it from time to time or it will fade away. Use or lose and all that.
I am jealous of people who can pick up a tune by ear when it is being played full speed at a session. I have never actually met such a person but rumor has it that they exist.
# Posted on October 2nd 2006 by crazy_fingerz
Re: Tips for Learning new tunes!
Listen to the tune till you can sing or whistle it.
Use a product like the "Amazing Slow Downer" app to pick up bits you have trouble hearing on the recording.
Use the dots to check against if you JUST CAN'T figure out a passage.
Play the tune VERY SLOWLY (60 BPM or less) until your fingers know where to go.
Increase the metronome by 20 BPM, and play it at this speed till it feels comfortable. Repeat, bumping the metronome by 10-20 BPM until up to "session speed."
Another trick that will REALLY hammer a tune home in your head: take a recorded tune and transcribe it in a notation program like Songworks. By the time you get the transcription right, you'll have played the tune achingly slowly 50 to 100 times. You'll know it note perfect.
Good luck.
# Posted on October 2nd 2006 by KC Gross
Re: Tips for Learning new tunes!
I agree with a lot of these, but especially with the "slow it down" approach. Obviously you need to know what the tune is supposed to sound like. I can read dots, but if not, then ABC is helpful.
I try to tackle tunes in parts, learning each one until it is ingrained and then adding the next part. For jigs, I usually set the metronome to 60 BPM (as stated above), and play the part through 5 times. The I bump it up to 63 BPM, play 5 times, bump to 66 BPM, and play it five more times. Then I come back the next day and start on 63 BPM and repeat the process. By the time I have the whole tune, I go back to 60 BPM and play the whole thing through 5 times, and you can see where this goes. By the time I am up to 120 BPM, my fingers do not go the wrong way.
If the tune is part of a set, I make sure to learn the last tune in the set, and then work forward.
Now, I do this more for performance than for sessions, so YMMV.
# Posted on October 2nd 2006 by IrishJim
Re: Tips for Learning new tunes!
guys can you give me some links to these programs which slow down the tune for you? this looks a very useful way of learning them...
# Posted on October 3rd 2006 by Gersfanno1
Re: Tips for Learning new tunes!
"Transcribe! " is the one I use. I use a mac version but they also have windows and linux versions. You can obtain Transcribe! as a download from the Seventh String website at http://www.seventhstring.com. You don't need to register or pay to do this.
# Posted on October 3rd 2006 by Ger the Rigger
Re: Tips for Learning new tunes!
I agree with KC Gross. I can hear a new tune in session and sing along to myself (and mentally play it on keyboard or work out anglo fingering).
If I can sing it, I can play it, so second or third time though, I am playing (hopefully most of) it.
Providing I do it immediately, I can also write it down.
The trick is to be able to play anything you can sing to yourself, and you can teach yourself to do it by practising listening to 2 bars and singing it back to yourself, gradually working up to 8 bars at a time.
Before computers and the like, I taught myself to do it by writing dots down from taped radio programmes.
# Posted on October 3rd 2006 by geoffwright
Re: Tips for Learning new tunes!
Gersfanno1, check out - www.ronimusic.com - for Amazing Slow Downer. Pay one subscription fee and it's yours for life. Excellent not only for learning in front of the computer (yuck) but also for burning CDs of slowed down tunes - which is mighty helpful! (Beware - you'll go through CD blanks like crazy.) Great support staff, as well. Good luck!
Lauri
# Posted on October 10th 2006 by lauri
Re: Tips for Learning new tunes!
I just thought I'd drop a line to agree with "ger the Rigger"and add A vote for seventhstring.It makes learning tunes very easy,time consuming but very easy.Once you have slowed it down and done the dots your fingers will fly.
# Posted on October 21st 2006 by Effie