The Session >> Discussions >> What connection is there between East Durham, USA, and Durham, UK?
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What connection is there between East Durham, USA, and Durham, UK?
What connection is there between East Durham, USA, and Durham, UK?
Living in Durham City in NE England, I wonder what the connection is between the town I live in and the Durhams I've heard of in the USA. I'd heard of one in one of the Carolinas, but wonder particularly why there are one or more in the Catskills that seem to be centres of Irish-American history and music.
This is a lazy way of doing it, I could probably find out in the library if not on the web, but I'll put this in anyway.
(There was a historical notable here called Lord Londonderry who must have had lands in Ireland as well as round Durham - I wonder if he had any part to play in this...)
Re: What connection is there between East Durham, USA, and Durham, UK?
Well, consider that New York state has a Troy, a Rome, a Syracuse, a Rochester, an Amsterdam and an Athens, among other places. Only natural they'd have nicked Durham, too.
Re: What connection is there between East Durham, USA, and Durham, UK?
Hi Nick,
They named every other town in the northeastern US after a town in the UK. There is Manchester, Boston, Norwich, Gloucester, Coventry, Northampton, New London, Middlesborough, etc. etc. They go on and on. I think the British colonists who settled the northeast were either homesick and wanted town names reminding them of home or just too lazy and uncreative to come up with new names.
Re: What connection is there between East Durham, USA, and Durham, UK?
Be fair to them - place names in England had centuries to evolve. Americans had to come up with them on the spot.
For our part, there are three places called 'California' in Great Britain - one in Central Scotland, one in Norfolk and one in Suffolk. Now, we can't accuse the Americans of nicking that one from us.
Re: What connection is there between East Durham, USA, and Durham, UK?
I did eventually look through the web on this.
I found that Durham, North Carolina, is a huge place (compared to Durham UK), and was named after a c19 worthy called Dr. Durham - no original connection then with Durham UK, though the cities do have friendly links.
Durham in New York State was named after Durham, Connecticut, by settlers who moved there from the latter town.
Durham, Connecticut, was first settled (by English speakers, that is) in 1699; in 1704 it was officially named Durham, explicitly after Durham UK, but for what reason, if known, the website did not specify.
Re: What connection is there between East Durham, USA, and Durham, UK?
Well....since I live about 1 hour south of Durham, NC in the US I feel somewhat competent to respond:
As has been noted, the city is named for Dr. Bartlett Durham, an 1800's era physician. This is interesting in that Durham is now known as the City of Medicine due to it being the home of Duke University's Medical School; routinely listed as one of the top 5 Medical Schools and Centers in the US.
Durham has long been a trading area and has a long history as a center of the Tobacco industry. As you might imagine, the area was originally settled by Scots, Irish (as was most of the Carolina Territory) and the odd Englishman or two. (Not odd as is strange, but odd as in not frequently encountered) The Duke family, benefactors to the aforementioned Duke University made their fortune in the tobacco trade and the influence of that fortune is still present. Washington Duke was the patriarch of the family and his heirs were founder of Liggett-Myers Tobacco, R.J. Reynolds Tobacco and other, less internationally known tobacco firms. Durham was also home to the first mills to produce denim.
North Carolina was the last state to secede from the Union during the Civil war and the second site of surrender. Shortly after Lee surrendered at Appomatox, a second, and larger surrender took place at Bennet Palace in Durham.
Incidentally, the movie "Bull Durham" alludes to a minor league baseball team called "The Durham Bulls". They are a real team and represent one of the summer rituals for Durham residents.
And...to keep things relevant to Irish Trad, there is a pub downtown...just down the street from the Durham Bulls ballpark, just across from the old Tobacco storage facility known as Bright Leaf Square....known as "The James Joyce". There is an Irish language group that meets there weekly and a bit of trad is played from time to time.
Re: What connection is there between East Durham, USA, and Durham, UK?
Thanks, ceolgaelach, for chiming in about Durham, North Carolina. I grew up there but couldn't have done better myself. One minor correction: Confederate General Joseph Johnston surrendered to Union General Sherman at the Bennett *Place*, not the Bennett Palace. The Bennett Place is a very modest wooden farmhouse. As far as I know, there are no palaces anywhere near Durham, although nearby Chapel Hill has Gimghoul Castle. I spent many weekends camping out at the Bennett Place as a Boy Scout.
Re: What connection is there between East Durham, USA, and Durham, UK?
I drove past a place called Gotham the other day, somewhere on the way to Nottingham from London. Which came first do you think, or does Batman really live in the English countryside?Nothing to do with Durham, I just thought it was fun.
Re: What connection is there between East Durham, USA, and Durham, UK?
oh fiddle it - I looked up Gotham, Notts., on the web, and its name comes from the Old English for "Goat Village / Homestead": so the place has been there some time, even before Batman (I never read the comics) - and Robin Hood, come to that. But literally anything seems to live in the English countryside these days. In the '70's some people had big cats (mountain lions, etc.) in menageries: the regulations on keeping these got tightened, so some were simply let loose, and seem to have bred. In '87, or so the story goes, an exceptional storm broke fences round wild boar farms, so herds of these are now rooting their way round Britain. There are numerous tales of exotic reptiles in sewers, as in New York: a twelve-foot snake came out of a toilet in a block of flats in Manchester - and so it goes on.
Re: What connection is there between East Durham, USA, and Durham, UK?
I have often wondered the connection of that myself.
I live not to far from Durham, NC. My last name is Durham as well, but my line of Durhams come from Texas by way of the English/Scottish boarder as far as I know. My mothers side is Harper and Ballew. I think those are Irish names, at least that's what I have heard. What do you all think?
Re: What connection is there between East Durham, USA, and Durham, UK?
In reply to Irishfiddler - were any of the Harpers in your family from Yorkshire (as my mother's side is also Harper) {Note that this is NOT why my username is 'Harping McCartan' - I do play the harp!!!!}
What connection is there between East Durham, USA, and Durham, UK?
What connection is there between East Durham, USA, and Durham, UK?
Living in Durham City in NE England, I wonder what the connection is between the town I live in and the Durhams I've heard of in the USA. I'd heard of one in one of the Carolinas, but wonder particularly why there are one or more in the Catskills that seem to be centres of Irish-American history and music.
This is a lazy way of doing it, I could probably find out in the library if not on the web, but I'll put this in anyway.
(There was a historical notable here called Lord Londonderry who must have had lands in Ireland as well as round Durham - I wonder if he had any part to play in this...)
# Posted on October 1st 2006 by nicholas
Re: What connection is there between East Durham, USA, and Durham, UK?
Well, consider that New York state has a Troy, a Rome, a Syracuse, a Rochester, an Amsterdam and an Athens, among other places. Only natural they'd have nicked Durham, too.
# Posted on October 1st 2006 by sts
Re: What connection is there between East Durham, USA, and Durham, UK?
Also, if there was a connect, it would be West Durham.
# Posted on October 1st 2006 by Farr
Re: What connection is there between East Durham, USA, and Durham, UK?
Hi Nick,
They named every other town in the northeastern US after a town in the UK. There is Manchester, Boston, Norwich, Gloucester, Coventry, Northampton, New London, Middlesborough, etc. etc. They go on and on. I think the British colonists who settled the northeast were either homesick and wanted town names reminding them of home or just too lazy and uncreative to come up with new names.
# Posted on October 1st 2006 by TheSilverSpear
Re: What connection is there between East Durham, USA, and Durham, UK?
Be fair to them - place names in England had centuries to evolve. Americans had to come up with them on the spot.
For our part, there are three places called 'California' in Great Britain - one in Central Scotland, one in Norfolk and one in Suffolk. Now, we can't accuse the Americans of nicking that one from us.
# Posted on October 1st 2006 by ragaman
Re: What connection is there between East Durham, USA, and Durham, UK?
I did eventually look through the web on this.
I found that Durham, North Carolina, is a huge place (compared to Durham UK), and was named after a c19 worthy called Dr. Durham - no original connection then with Durham UK, though the cities do have friendly links.
Durham in New York State was named after Durham, Connecticut, by settlers who moved there from the latter town.
Durham, Connecticut, was first settled (by English speakers, that is) in 1699; in 1704 it was officially named Durham, explicitly after Durham UK, but for what reason, if known, the website did not specify.
# Posted on October 1st 2006 by nicholas
Re: What connection is there between East Durham, USA, and Durham, UK?
In County Durham we have Toronto and Quebec. I've always assumed they were probably named after the North American ones.
# Posted on October 1st 2006 by mehere
Re: What connection is there between East Durham, USA, and Durham, UK?
Well....since I live about 1 hour south of Durham, NC in the US I feel somewhat competent to respond:
As has been noted, the city is named for Dr. Bartlett Durham, an 1800's era physician. This is interesting in that Durham is now known as the City of Medicine due to it being the home of Duke University's Medical School; routinely listed as one of the top 5 Medical Schools and Centers in the US.
Durham has long been a trading area and has a long history as a center of the Tobacco industry. As you might imagine, the area was originally settled by Scots, Irish (as was most of the Carolina Territory) and the odd Englishman or two. (Not odd as is strange, but odd as in not frequently encountered) The Duke family, benefactors to the aforementioned Duke University made their fortune in the tobacco trade and the influence of that fortune is still present. Washington Duke was the patriarch of the family and his heirs were founder of Liggett-Myers Tobacco, R.J. Reynolds Tobacco and other, less internationally known tobacco firms. Durham was also home to the first mills to produce denim.
North Carolina was the last state to secede from the Union during the Civil war and the second site of surrender. Shortly after Lee surrendered at Appomatox, a second, and larger surrender took place at Bennet Palace in Durham.
Incidentally, the movie "Bull Durham" alludes to a minor league baseball team called "The Durham Bulls". They are a real team and represent one of the summer rituals for Durham residents.
And...to keep things relevant to Irish Trad, there is a pub downtown...just down the street from the Durham Bulls ballpark, just across from the old Tobacco storage facility known as Bright Leaf Square....known as "The James Joyce". There is an Irish language group that meets there weekly and a bit of trad is played from time to time.
# Posted on October 1st 2006 by ceolgaelach
Re: What connection is there between East Durham, USA, and Durham, UK?
Thanks, ceolgaelach, for chiming in about Durham, North Carolina. I grew up there but couldn't have done better myself. One minor correction: Confederate General Joseph Johnston surrendered to Union General Sherman at the Bennett *Place*, not the Bennett Palace. The Bennett Place is a very modest wooden farmhouse. As far as I know, there are no palaces anywhere near Durham, although nearby Chapel Hill has Gimghoul Castle. I spent many weekends camping out at the Bennett Place as a Boy Scout.
# Posted on October 1st 2006 by mkchen
Re: What connection is there between East Durham, USA, and Durham, UK?
I drove past a place called Gotham the other day, somewhere on the way to Nottingham from London. Which came first do you think, or does Batman really live in the English countryside?Nothing to do with Durham, I just thought it was fun.
# Posted on October 1st 2006 by oh fiddle it
Re: What connection is there between East Durham, USA, and Durham, UK?
oh fiddle it - I looked up Gotham, Notts., on the web, and its name comes from the Old English for "Goat Village / Homestead": so the place has been there some time, even before Batman (I never read the comics) - and Robin Hood, come to that. But literally anything seems to live in the English countryside these days. In the '70's some people had big cats (mountain lions, etc.) in menageries: the regulations on keeping these got tightened, so some were simply let loose, and seem to have bred. In '87, or so the story goes, an exceptional storm broke fences round wild boar farms, so herds of these are now rooting their way round Britain. There are numerous tales of exotic reptiles in sewers, as in New York: a twelve-foot snake came out of a toilet in a block of flats in Manchester - and so it goes on.
# Posted on October 1st 2006 by nicholas
Re: What connection is there between East Durham, USA, and Durham, UK?
I have often wondered the connection of that myself.
I live not to far from Durham, NC. My last name is Durham as well, but my line of Durhams come from Texas by way of the English/Scottish boarder as far as I know. My mothers side is Harper and Ballew. I think those are Irish names, at least that's what I have heard. What do you all think?
# Posted on October 2nd 2006 by irishfiddler
Re: What connection is there between East Durham, USA, and Durham, UK?
In reply to Irishfiddler - were any of the Harpers in your family from Yorkshire (as my mother's side is also Harper) {Note that this is NOT why my username is 'Harping McCartan' - I do play the harp!!!!}
# Posted on October 3rd 2006 by Harping McCartan