What can music sessions teach us about conversation?
What can music sessions teach us about conversation?
Interested in your "take" as musicians: thinking of any aspect of "the tradition", how is music "like" good conversation, and where does it stop being like a good conversation?
Re: What can music sessions teach us about conversation?
Like good conversation, a session tends to get a bit confused after the third bottle of wine.
Anyone bringing a bodhran into a conversation must not expect to be especially welcomed.
In a good conversation, every topic must be repeated twice, then you stick your foot out and go on to a new one.
Someone else always starts your favourite topic just when you've gone out for a pee, so that when you bring it up twenty minutes later, they all say, "We've already done that!"
Re: What can music sessions teach us about conversation?
People, like me, who are just learning to "talk" need to just listen and learn for the most part, but really appreciate it when the grown-ups make the effort to talk slowly at least once during the evening so we don't feel completely left out.
That said, there are obviously some conversations which are for grown-ups only.
Re: What can music sessions teach us about conversation?
Some sessions benefit from having a good mix of talk and tunes. Others work better when there is as little talk as possible.
The best sessions are a seamless mix of verbal and musical communication between friends or even sparring partners.
Oh and by the way, if a session is a performance - is a conversation also a performance??
Re: What can music sessions teach us about conversation?
Donough, that's a really interesting question.
Maybe if the performers and "audience" are difficult to tell apart (as people go into either role) maybe that's also true of conversation. Or, listening is just as much a part of the performance as the actual playing - because one doesn't exist without the other?
Re: What can music sessions teach us about conversation?
Much research into conversational styles has suggested that the different genders (i.e. men and women) have different rules or styles of conversation. Do these styles translate into sessions I wonder? The sessions I go to are made up largely of male musicians; I just wonder if sessions that are largely female have any differences in the ways that players communicate with each other?
Re: What can music sessions teach us about conversation?
I thinks that in terms of listening and speaking/playing there is a key difference. In general, in a spoken conversation participants are either speaking or listening at any one time -- few people can effectively do both without problems. In a session, it is important to be able to listen and play at the same time.
Re: What can music sessions teach us about conversation?
I like that point. Sometimes at gigs I've deliberately tried focussing my attention on the other players and not myself, sometimes I've tried focussing on all of us (which is I guess what one normally does) and sometimes I've tried focussing purely on the audience's reactions. Of course I'm still playing the instrument, but I'm also playing with where my attention goes. Sometimes it focusses on the person with the biggest t*ts, but that always precedes a musical train-wreck!
Re: What can music sessions teach us about conversation?
A session should be harmonious, but if it becomes too harmonious and bland, it can be boring. It is all about balancing tension and release. Ditto on a fun conversion, if people are too much the same, they have nothing to say to each other. Music, at its best, should be a conversation, with the players building on ideas they received from others. The conversation is often subtle, a tug on the rhythm here, a little twist to the melody there, but it is vital to the energy of the playing
Re: What can music sessions teach us about conversation?
Conversations are most fun and interesting when everyone gets to talk and laugh. Even the most eloquent and witty person can become a bore if he takes over and doesn't let anyone else speak. But don't let just eveyone keep talking about mundane things like the weather and sports -- you need some politics and philosophy to make it interesting and worth while. A little alcohol helps to get the conversation flowing, but too much and all you end up with are fart jokes.
(substitute words like "session" "the butterfly" and "bucks of oranmore" where appropriate)
Re: What can music sessions teach us about conversation?
Music being a communication language, it is a fast track way of getting straight to the point with strangers. Music talk has no regard for income or occupation so the tramp can converse with the millionaire and the farmer with the actor. As with speaking though, the best people listen and are interested in what others have to say.
Re: What can music sessions teach us about conversation?
Er, sometimes it seems people are just waiting for a tune to end so they can start playing their one. Yes, just like conversations, some people aren't listening!
And what about speed? When you are with people who are learning your language it often helps to speak clearly and at a speed they can understand.
Re: What can music sessions teach us about conversation?
Perhaps the beauty of it is that there are no wrong anwers to the posed questions, just dissonant forms not so pleasantly recognizable or culturally acceptable. From the perspective of an audience, they can only take in about a 10th of what we can dish out. The chasm between us is growing ever larger. Ask Mr. Fripp.
Like any human language, oral or otherwise, there are accepted customs and limitations within the general culture. In other words, structure, which music requires when more than one person is involved, would otherwise be chaos. Controled musical chaos is useful for those who wish to delve into it. For me, conversational music requires context or at least a decent canvas on which to paint, but coloring outside of the lines is sometimes a very good thing to do also. Ask Mr. Beck.
Mostly I believe, musicians are sharing their own very small cosmic voice in an otherwise infinite universe. Wherein some of the sounds from the universe are within our design and each one of us makes an attempt to verbalize through our instrument, which of course includes the voice. Non-voice musical language is closer to the truth, in my view. Lyrics are for the audience to have something to connect to. Ask any jazz player. Love Supreme withstanding.
To conclude, when a group of musicians are connecting with each other during conversational music sessions, we are still speaking in tongues, but we are also sharing in something greater than ourselves.
If we tap into this too deeply, we just might run out onto the frozen lake totally naked or cut off our ear or who knows what.
I have heard "The Sound" but the instrument still won't play itself. When it does, I will run naked out onto the frozen lake AND cut off my hear...lol !
What can music sessions teach us about conversation?
What can music sessions teach us about conversation?
Interested in your "take" as musicians: thinking of any aspect of "the tradition", how is music "like" good conversation, and where does it stop being like a good conversation?
# Posted on September 20th 2006 by Mark Harmer
Re: What can music sessions teach us about conversation?
Like good conversation, a session tends to get a bit confused after the third bottle of wine.
Anyone bringing a bodhran into a conversation must not expect to be especially welcomed.
In a good conversation, every topic must be repeated twice, then you stick your foot out and go on to a new one.
Someone else always starts your favourite topic just when you've gone out for a pee, so that when you bring it up twenty minutes later, they all say, "We've already done that!"
# Posted on September 20th 2006 by LastToFinish
Re: What can music sessions teach us about conversation?
People, like me, who are just learning to "talk" need to just listen and learn for the most part, but really appreciate it when the grown-ups make the effort to talk slowly at least once during the evening so we don't feel completely left out.
That said, there are obviously some conversations which are for grown-ups only.
# Posted on September 20th 2006 by robharper
Re: What can music sessions teach us about conversation?
My own experience is I'm using the right chords, just that everyone else is using the wrong ones.
# Posted on September 20th 2006 by Mark Harmer
Re: What can music sessions teach us about conversation?
What can music sessions teach us about conversation?
To whisht, and play some tunes!
# Posted on September 20th 2006 by Murrough
Re: What can music sessions teach us about conversation?
Good conversations like good sessions happen when we listen well and respond to what each other is saying/playing.
Good point , well said too robharper.
# Posted on September 20th 2006 by cabers
Re: What can music sessions teach us about conversation?
Some sessions benefit from having a good mix of talk and tunes. Others work better when there is as little talk as possible.
The best sessions are a seamless mix of verbal and musical communication between friends or even sparring partners.
Oh and by the way, if a session is a performance - is a conversation also a performance??
# Posted on September 20th 2006 by Donough
Re: What can music sessions teach us about conversation?
Donough, that's a really interesting question.
Maybe if the performers and "audience" are difficult to tell apart (as people go into either role) maybe that's also true of conversation. Or, listening is just as much a part of the performance as the actual playing - because one doesn't exist without the other?
# Posted on September 20th 2006 by Mark Harmer
Re: What can music sessions teach us about conversation?
Much research into conversational styles has suggested that the different genders (i.e. men and women) have different rules or styles of conversation. Do these styles translate into sessions I wonder? The sessions I go to are made up largely of male musicians; I just wonder if sessions that are largely female have any differences in the ways that players communicate with each other?
# Posted on September 20th 2006 by calum's van
Re: What can music sessions teach us about conversation?
I thinks that in terms of listening and speaking/playing there is a key difference. In general, in a spoken conversation participants are either speaking or listening at any one time -- few people can effectively do both without problems. In a session, it is important to be able to listen and play at the same time.
# Posted on September 20th 2006 by robharper
Re: What can music sessions teach us about conversation?
I like that point. Sometimes at gigs I've deliberately tried focussing my attention on the other players and not myself, sometimes I've tried focussing on all of us (which is I guess what one normally does) and sometimes I've tried focussing purely on the audience's reactions. Of course I'm still playing the instrument, but I'm also playing with where my attention goes. Sometimes it focusses on the person with the biggest t*ts, but that always precedes a musical train-wreck!
# Posted on September 20th 2006 by Mark Harmer
Re: What can music sessions teach us about conversation?
A session should be harmonious, but if it becomes too harmonious and bland, it can be boring. It is all about balancing tension and release. Ditto on a fun conversion, if people are too much the same, they have nothing to say to each other. Music, at its best, should be a conversation, with the players building on ideas they received from others. The conversation is often subtle, a tug on the rhythm here, a little twist to the melody there, but it is vital to the energy of the playing
# Posted on September 20th 2006 by AlBrown
Re: What can music sessions teach us about conversation?
Tunes should be played as a conversation, with phrases contrasted as questions and answers, that way you will get some light and shade.
# Posted on September 20th 2006 by geoffwright
Re: What can music sessions teach us about conversation?
Geoff, that's nice. Hadn't thought about what was going on in the tunes themselves.
# Posted on September 20th 2006 by Mark Harmer
Re: What can music sessions teach us about conversation?
Conversations are most fun and interesting when everyone gets to talk and laugh. Even the most eloquent and witty person can become a bore if he takes over and doesn't let anyone else speak. But don't let just eveyone keep talking about mundane things like the weather and sports -- you need some politics and philosophy to make it interesting and worth while. A little alcohol helps to get the conversation flowing, but too much and all you end up with are fart jokes.
(substitute words like "session" "the butterfly" and "bucks of oranmore" where appropriate)
# Posted on September 20th 2006 by zoetrope
Re: What can music sessions teach us about conversation?
I like the progression, luap ekrub.
# Posted on September 20th 2006 by Nathan G
Re: What can music sessions teach us about conversation?
Conversations should be full of contentious subjects, animated discussion/argument, humour, and not that serious.
I may well be the world's best conversationalist.
# Posted on September 20th 2006 by bodhran bliss
Re: What can music sessions teach us about conversation?
The fastest talkers are so often the shallowest....
# Posted on September 21st 2006 by ceemonster
Re: What can music sessions teach us about conversation?
The CCE fleadhs include competions in 'Irish Conversation'. What's all that about? How do you judge a chinwag?
# Posted on September 21st 2006 by ragaman
Re: What can music sessions teach us about conversation?
Music being a communication language, it is a fast track way of getting straight to the point with strangers. Music talk has no regard for income or occupation so the tramp can converse with the millionaire and the farmer with the actor. As with speaking though, the best people listen and are interested in what others have to say.
# Posted on September 25th 2006 by Frezz
Re: What can music sessions teach us about conversation?
Frezz, thank you - there are some amazing insights here.
# Posted on September 25th 2006 by Mark Harmer
Re: What can music sessions teach us about conversation?
Er, sometimes it seems people are just waiting for a tune to end so they can start playing their one. Yes, just like conversations, some people aren't listening!
And what about speed? When you are with people who are learning your language it often helps to speak clearly and at a speed they can understand.
# Posted on September 25th 2006 by Dunnock
Re: What can music sessions teach us about conversation?
And sometimes we have to hang around for a bit and get a sense of the harmonies before we join, so we don't cause a conversational train-wreck...
# Posted on September 25th 2006 by Mark Harmer
Re: What can music sessions teach us about conversation?
Perhaps the beauty of it is that there are no wrong anwers to the posed questions, just dissonant forms not so pleasantly recognizable or culturally acceptable. From the perspective of an audience, they can only take in about a 10th of what we can dish out. The chasm between us is growing ever larger. Ask Mr. Fripp.
Like any human language, oral or otherwise, there are accepted customs and limitations within the general culture. In other words, structure, which music requires when more than one person is involved, would otherwise be chaos. Controled musical chaos is useful for those who wish to delve into it. For me, conversational music requires context or at least a decent canvas on which to paint, but coloring outside of the lines is sometimes a very good thing to do also. Ask Mr. Beck.
Mostly I believe, musicians are sharing their own very small cosmic voice in an otherwise infinite universe. Wherein some of the sounds from the universe are within our design and each one of us makes an attempt to verbalize through our instrument, which of course includes the voice. Non-voice musical language is closer to the truth, in my view. Lyrics are for the audience to have something to connect to. Ask any jazz player. Love Supreme withstanding.
To conclude, when a group of musicians are connecting with each other during conversational music sessions, we are still speaking in tongues, but we are also sharing in something greater than ourselves.
If we tap into this too deeply, we just might run out onto the frozen lake totally naked or cut off our ear or who knows what.
I have heard "The Sound" but the instrument still won't play itself. When it does, I will run naked out onto the frozen lake AND cut off my hear...lol !
# Posted on October 5th 2006 by ToneHead