There have been many previous discussions re the punter who comes up to you in the bar and tells you what you're doing wrong.....
This guy comes up to me and insists that we should make it more of a performance, respond to the audience instead of playing within our group, turn our little circle into a semi-circle facing out to the crowd (Crowd ! It was half a dozen punters at the other end of the bar watching the footie when we started, there was no audience ).
I try and explain why a session isn't the same as a performance, how we try and make an ambiance that even absolute beginners can feel that we are welcoming and they can have a go without hindrance or criticism or having to face the public, but he will insist on going on. I'm so glad it was the end of the evening, people were packing up to catch last buses and stuff, wouldn't have wanted this in the middle of the session.
Agreed. Unless it's a "paid session" which has been *imposed* on the pub and punters. I'm inclined that some effort ought to be made to entertain in these situations.
Please note, I'm not referring to the regular type of session where the core musicians get a fee. Obviously, the management are happy with this and most of the punters too...or they'd go elsewhere.
It's just the sort of scenario which is becoming more common these days, especially in Scotland with these wretched McEwan's sessions and the like or at festivals where bands and artistes being "planted" in often unfriendly or hostile environments and being paid to "start something".
Sorry, one of pet gripes. A "regular" session at a pub or festival is a different matter as I say and I firmly endorse your point of view there.
Yes. I should have asked him for money, shouldn't I ?
He was just so determined, fortunately not belligerently, to put his point.
I only started it for fun, ten or eleven months ago. Got a couple of new musicians this month, both of them pretty local. No new fiddlers yet, it's a funny session, with no fiddlers at all.....where are they all ?
Aw Pete, I wish we could loan you a few. Sunday there six fiddles at the first session (sorta turned the tables on the lone piper!).
Then later, at another session, somebody counted 14 fiddles at one point! And 2 flutes, whistle, 2 concertinas, 2 accordions--but not a single bodhran, or guitar, much less a shakey egg!
In the Seventies one used to hear apocryphal tales of one fiddler being chased from pub to pub by twelve bodhran players - the tables seem to have been turned since then. Maybe there just aren't as many bodhran classes for three-year-olds as there are for fiddlers...
I always tell punters who think our session should be a stage-show of some sort to try thinking of it more as a musical game of cards between friends. I'll say something like, "Imagine us sitting around that table sipping our drinks chatting while we deal the cards, and when the music starts we're basically playing out our hands. The only difference between watching us play cards and watching us play tunes is that when we play tunes you can hear music -- and I hope you enjoy listening to it."
The man with his own point of view isn't exactly Robinson Crusoe - I've heard it many a time.
Most good session pubs attract folk who just like the session music as an atmosphere, occasionally cocking an ear to something that catches their attention, or tune in when the conversation drops or their yackin buddy has gone to the loo (or outside for a smoke in Scotland these days).
I'm happy enough with that , it takes the pressure off the players and I'd rather be drowned out by conversation now and then than endure the tension when folk start shouting "shhh"
I'll remember the game of cards simile - that might come in useful sometime.
And, yes, many people like the session as background music but appreciate it enormously as musicians getting their rocks off.
Still trying to work out a fiddler trap - how to bait it ?
We had an embarrassement of frets last night -bouzouki, octave mandola, mandolin doubling whistle, three guitars ( normally I'm happiest with only one, but these were divided between one guy who plays tunes and accompanies, plus whistle, another who sings stuff from reggae to old pop standards, and a third who did blues to ragtime; three guitars mashing chords behind the tunes is what drives me mad ), SO on flute whistle and percussion, another whistle, englishy melodian, plus Billy turned up and sat in towards the end on a borrowed piano accordian ( recently recycled from a skip ) queue all the accordion jokes...We were missing our harpist, our piper/hurdy-gurdy man, and the itinerant droneless pipes....
Ah, there was this bloke in our pub once who sat glowering at us for a whole night, then just before the end, after sitting there for an hour and a half, he got up, and on his way out he said 'I f***ing hate Irish music!'
My man the folksong scholar says to people who interrupt or make demands "We're having a musical conversation".
This usually stymies the punter enough to make him go away, or at least shut up while he thinks it through.
The man with his own point of view.
The man with his own point of view.
There have been many previous discussions re the punter who comes up to you in the bar and tells you what you're doing wrong.....
This guy comes up to me and insists that we should make it more of a performance, respond to the audience instead of playing within our group, turn our little circle into a semi-circle facing out to the crowd (Crowd ! It was half a dozen punters at the other end of the bar watching the footie when we started, there was no audience ).
I try and explain why a session isn't the same as a performance, how we try and make an ambiance that even absolute beginners can feel that we are welcoming and they can have a go without hindrance or criticism or having to face the public, but he will insist on going on. I'm so glad it was the end of the evening, people were packing up to catch last buses and stuff, wouldn't have wanted this in the middle of the session.
# Posted on September 12th 2006 by Guernsey Pete
Re: The man with his own point of view.
Of course, you could've said, "Right, it's a performance. That'll be 10 quid, please."
# Posted on September 12th 2006 by sts
Re: The man with his own point of view.
Agreed. Unless it's a "paid session" which has been *imposed* on the pub and punters. I'm inclined that some effort ought to be made to entertain in these situations.
Please note, I'm not referring to the regular type of session where the core musicians get a fee. Obviously, the management are happy with this and most of the punters too...or they'd go elsewhere.
It's just the sort of scenario which is becoming more common these days, especially in Scotland with these wretched McEwan's sessions and the like or at festivals where bands and artistes being "planted" in often unfriendly or hostile environments and being paid to "start something".
Sorry, one of pet gripes. A "regular" session at a pub or festival is a different matter as I say and I firmly endorse your point of view there.
# Posted on September 12th 2006 by Johannes J
Re: The man with his own point of view.
Where can we find this "regular type of session where the core musicians get a fee"? I want to sign up!
# Posted on September 12th 2006 by Tracie
Re: The man with his own point of view.
Yes. I should have asked him for money, shouldn't I ?
He was just so determined, fortunately not belligerently, to put his point.
I only started it for fun, ten or eleven months ago. Got a couple of new musicians this month, both of them pretty local. No new fiddlers yet, it's a funny session, with no fiddlers at all.....where are they all ?
# Posted on September 12th 2006 by Guernsey Pete
Re: The man with his own point of view.
Aw Pete, I wish we could loan you a few. Sunday there six fiddles at the first session (sorta turned the tables on the lone piper!).
Then later, at another session, somebody counted 14 fiddles at one point! And 2 flutes, whistle, 2 concertinas, 2 accordions--but not a single bodhran, or guitar, much less a shakey egg!
Funny old world, eh?
# Posted on September 12th 2006 by mickray
Re: The man with his own point of view.
In the Seventies one used to hear apocryphal tales of one fiddler being chased from pub to pub by twelve bodhran players - the tables seem to have been turned since then. Maybe there just aren't as many bodhran classes for three-year-olds as there are for fiddlers...
# Posted on September 12th 2006 by nicholas
Re: The man with his own point of view.
I always tell punters who think our session should be a stage-show of some sort to try thinking of it more as a musical game of cards between friends. I'll say something like, "Imagine us sitting around that table sipping our drinks chatting while we deal the cards, and when the music starts we're basically playing out our hands. The only difference between watching us play cards and watching us play tunes is that when we play tunes you can hear music -- and I hope you enjoy listening to it."
# Posted on September 12th 2006 by Phantom Button
Re: The man with his own point of view.
I like that analogy of cards / music. Spot on! I hope I can remember that if I need it!
# Posted on September 12th 2006 by pn5jn
Re: The man with his own point of view.
I've used PB's analogy for months now. . .it's a good one.
# Posted on September 12th 2006 by wormdiet
Re: The man with his own point of view.
The man with his own point of view isn't exactly Robinson Crusoe - I've heard it many a time.
Most good session pubs attract folk who just like the session music as an atmosphere, occasionally cocking an ear to something that catches their attention, or tune in when the conversation drops or their yackin buddy has gone to the loo (or outside for a smoke in Scotland these days).
I'm happy enough with that , it takes the pressure off the players and I'd rather be drowned out by conversation now and then than endure the tension when folk start shouting "shhh"
# Posted on September 12th 2006 by Bren
Re: The man with his own point of view.
I'll remember the game of cards simile - that might come in useful sometime.
And, yes, many people like the session as background music but appreciate it enormously as musicians getting their rocks off.
Still trying to work out a fiddler trap - how to bait it ?
We had an embarrassement of frets last night -bouzouki, octave mandola, mandolin doubling whistle, three guitars ( normally I'm happiest with only one, but these were divided between one guy who plays tunes and accompanies, plus whistle, another who sings stuff from reggae to old pop standards, and a third who did blues to ragtime; three guitars mashing chords behind the tunes is what drives me mad ), SO on flute whistle and percussion, another whistle, englishy melodian, plus Billy turned up and sat in towards the end on a borrowed piano accordian ( recently recycled from a skip ) queue all the accordion jokes...We were missing our harpist, our piper/hurdy-gurdy man, and the itinerant droneless pipes....
# Posted on September 12th 2006 by Guernsey Pete
Re: The man with his own point of view.
Ah, there was this bloke in our pub once who sat glowering at us for a whole night, then just before the end, after sitting there for an hour and a half, he got up, and on his way out he said 'I f***ing hate Irish music!'
Not really relevant to this discussion...
# Posted on September 12th 2006 by petemay
Re: The man with his own point of view.
My man the folksong scholar says to people who interrupt or make demands "We're having a musical conversation".
This usually stymies the punter enough to make him go away, or at least shut up while he thinks it through.
# Posted on September 13th 2006 by oldstrings