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Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
I'm curious as to how narcotics, such as alcohol, affect peoples' performance on various instruments at various points in their musical development.
Let me share with you (an edited version of) my own experience:
When I first went along to sessions, to play whistle, and some flute, I would get tanked up a bit to dampen down the adrenaline, and I'm sure that's how many beginners feel. I think I was able to play OK, so it must have worked....
As my musical career progressed I could take it or leave it, but usually took it, as I liked having a couple of pints while playing tunes - end of story! It can loosen up your playing - I have no doubt about that. At various junctures, I've been subjected to alternatives, eg, THC, which is great fun for listening to yourself, also for inventing triplets, throwing in extra bits, etc.
Laterally, I've needed a car to transport box & flute & mikes & amps, no adrenaline buzz, no alcohol, still love the craic & the music. Got my sport (running) and (so far) steady job, lovely missus & 2 kids. If I wanna drink, there's tinnies in the fridge. Rarely indulge in the quare stuff...
On occasions (eg Paddy's Day - big down here in Lewisham) I am FORCED to imbibe the odd Guinness. The effects on my playing are as follows:
Flute/whistle - exactly the same as my speech: increasing number of Slurs, with my Scottish accent getting progressively stronger (tunes, intonations).
Box - After 4 pints my slides really do just that.
Thank God I'm a flute player first off!! - box playing is harder anyway, but much harder after some beers.
So - come all ye! - firsty fiddle players, parched pipers, wistful whistle players, footloose flutists, dry D/G boxists, washboardists, Professors of spoonology, Ph.D.'s in bodhranificology, high priests of the Bongo, even the most base of bass players, and so on...those who must always mass-debate these issues...put your feet up and lay bare your soles - and while your at it lay bare your souls...
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
Howz about harbengers of hammered dulcimers?
I like Guiness but love the ales of Scotland. We have a pub that specializes in the creation of beers that pad the waistline. Sort of an additional layering for those cold frosty mornings (great name for a song by the way). Unfortunately for the HD any inbibing is an invitation to screw up bigtime. You don't "slurr" on a HD at all. I'll sit in and have a Guiness or a Scottish Ale but usually it's after any leads. I'm quickly reduced to doing pentatonic scales and chords. After a couple I'll go back to the guitar and answer questions about my fancy cheese grader. ("The holes are for catching the cheese crumbs")
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
Someone once asked the great tenor saxophone player Zoot Sims how he managed to play so well when he was drunk. He answered that he practiced when he was drunk. People who study behavioural pharmacology will verify that this is so. For maximum performance practice in the condition in which you want to perform.
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
Actually, we encourage the audience to imbibe as much as possible since:
1) Its good for the pub owner, and
2) the more they drink, the better we sound
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
Aha! Drinking and playing Irish music. A perplexing dilemma! Personally I imbibe about a pint an hour, play the guitar and bass and do reasonably well. I try to do any singing on the end of the hour so the words can be understood. I'm finished if I have more than one in an hour....As for practicing while in the condition....the band practices the beer an hour routine at practice as well...
Brent
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
Makes no difference here. Sober, might play well, or not. Tipsy, might do same. Depends on the general mood of me and everyone else.Everyone in good mood, everyone play well. Everyone feeling low, play bad, no matter how much liquor or otherwise!
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
Interesting question. Overall, I don't play better with a few drinks in me, and have learned to pace myself so that I can play better (I hope...) & longer. On the other hand, I rarely play without a pint nearby, even when practicing.
My fluteplaying goes downhill rapidly after more than a couple of pints. Gone are the days of drinking and playing until all hours and spending the next day recovering. But like Dan M. says above, having a happy family and a reliable job more than makes up for it.
The accordion is a different story -- I find I can play the box "better" after a couple of pints, and keep playing when I'd be drunk enough to have given up on the flute for the evening. Don't know how it sounds to others though. Some days I wonder if you'd have to have been a serious drinker to have figured out how to play the damn thing in the first place.
I'm very much against advancing the stereotype that Irish music and drinking of necessity go together, as so many people seem to think, and which is actively promoted by "Irish" pub owners. Saying, "The more you drink, the better we sound" implies that we're not really good enough to entertain you with our music, so let's all drink more and maybe nobody will notice. Sorry, but that doesn't work for me. Now if you were to say, "The more you drink, the better we'll *look*", that's a different story.
Having played with plenty of musicians and audiences in various states of inebriation, I'm glad I don't have to deal with most of them anymore. (This could be less of an issue in Ireland, from what I've seen -- very well behaved drinkers, for the most part.) I don't know what's worse, being on stage with a musician who's had too many, playing for a crowd of tanked yobbos, or having some friendly drunks join you on a stage filled with gear and expensive instruments. I suppose it's an occupational hazard of playing in pubs, but I don't enjoy it. And having said that, I've also seen some very entertaining things, mostly involving naked people and lots of slobbering. You take your humour where you find it.
THC seems like it could be kind of fun, but I smoke so rarely these days that it's always a bit over the top, and I have enough trouble remembering where we are in a set of tunes as it is. I've also heard that there are more than a couple of well-known traditional players who like to have a toot before playing, so if you needed a bit of incentive... I often play with a couple of guys who are usually high though, and I find their performances uninspiring.
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
Greg,
A thoughtful reply.
I kind of agree with your rebuttal of the stereotype: Irish music and drinking go hand in hand. Of course it's nonsense, but personally it doesn't really worry me. Let those who form opinions on the spot, without knowing their topic in depth, do so, as long as they don't have their hands on the levers of power.
Your observation wrt "smokers" producing uninspired performances is interesting. Will bear it in mind.
Strange, I find the box much harder than the flute (esp. with EtOH intoxication), cos with the box you have to find the notes whereas with the flute you merely have to raise or lower the appropriate finger(s).
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
A pint an hour sounds about right. Times when I've switched to whiskey, I've noticed that the music gets much more powerful and emotive, especially in my own head, which after about four shots is the only place I'm still playing it....
I get a good laugh every time I look at those photos on another web site showing proper flute posture, ending with the one of the player face down on the table top in a halo of empty glasses, heh.
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
hmmm - good question, I like a few pints when I play tunes - I actually dont enjoy tunes as much, sounds pretty bad but I do relax and dont feel nervous. As well as that the session I go to has free drinks all night for all musicians so it can be really hard not to drink. Not that Ive ever tried that ;) THC on the other hand - did it once when I was playing tunes and never ever again!! I forgot how to hold hold the fiddle let alone how to actually play a tune and then I was not well - not a good look. But I am pint person)
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
Cuchulain, judging by the numerous and apparently well-funded roving teams of field researchers, this has to be one of the most studied scientific questions of our day. I think we all have our hypotheses about the answer, of course, but it is gratifying to see so many scientists dedicated to rigorously replicating the experiment and testing the results, offering their own minds and bodies as guinea pigs, no less. Our own research facility here in Helena is small but state of the art. Our study is set up as a double-blind experiment so that no one of us knows on any given night who is under observation and who is responsible for recording and analyzing data. Of course, we are still in the early phase, collecting baseline data, although to date our database is fairly small, even after 5 years of concerted effort....
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
Provided you don't use a straw, playing the accordion and having a pint is a good idea as you have to stop occasionally and have a slurp.
When I stop playing and pick up my pint mid-tune, that is an indication that I am bored with this set and is an open invitation for someone else to set off into a new tune.
Performance? - as I practise in the pub, I also play in the pub.
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
"I'm very much against advancing the stereotype that Irish music and drinking of necessity go together, as so many people seem to think, and which is actively promoted by "Irish" pub owners."
I'll second Greg on that. The pub session as the principal means of propagating the musical tradition is a relatively new phenomenon, is it not? One might imagine that a century ago, a set of tunes was as likely to be accompanied by a cup of tea and a slice of cake as by a pint of porter or a shot of whiskey.
Personally, I had my last drink ten years ago, and that was before I ever played traditional music, so I can't comment on the effects of drink on my playing - I could comment on its effect on the playing of others. As an occasional "smoker", I can say that THC, provided I don't have too much in one go, seems to me to make me a more creative player - but that may be just how it sounds to me. Too much, and I start to lose co-ordination, become over-conscious of my own physical movements and clean forget the tunes mid-phrase. On the whole, I prefer not to be under the influence of any substance which my body does not manufacture of its own accord. Most of us musicians are half out of our trees as it is.
....Incidentally, I know quite a few mandolin and banjo players who never touch a drop. Teetotal fiddlers, accordionists, pipers and flute players, on the other hand, seem to be relatively scarce.
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
I never go out to bar just to drink anymore, it's always to go to a session. As far as house sessions it's a fifty/fifty shot as to whether I'm drinking or not. I rarely do when I'm just practicing, mostly it's tea or coffee - which I'm a stuck-up snot-bag about. No maxwell house or lipton for me thanks, even Starbucks doesn't cut the mustard for me. I've been lucky to always live within a mile of a good independant roastery for about 10 years now.
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
For me it's one to three pints per session. I like my beer when playing. Another thing, if you drink the bitter stuff, it makes your mouth dryer (I am trying to say this in a tasteful way), which is good because I don't want my whistle to clog halfway through the second reel in a set.
I remember once, while under significant influence of certain substances (and no, I wasn't driving), the session went completely weird. First off, I could hardly remember a tune. I was sitting there feeling foolish wondering how Kesh Jig went again. Second, I found it extremely difficult to reliably count to two: It's a challenge anyway, but that night it was much much worse and I kept plunging into the turn (where I could remember it) on the second A, and so forth. That may have been a result of the third phenomenon, which was that time seemed have lost it's steady reliability: Sometimes the music seemed to drag along and at other times I couldn't account for the last few beats or bars. It was the oddest night and I am sure I made a good few players hate me: if not by my wild playing then by my rambling conversation. It's funny to remember now, though.
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
There was an amusing interview in one of the Toronto papers a few years ago about this up and coming jazz guitarist, who said his strangest gig was playing a small club while high on mushrooms. He said that half way through the second set his guitar disappeared completely, and although he kept playing, he was quite concerned that somebody would notice that his guitar wasn't there. But nobody did, and eventually his guitar came back and the gig continued without incident.
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
Can't speak from personal experience on the matter as most of my session experience at this point has been at the "listening" stage and playing in front of audiences has been a formal experience to which when I think of it I probably would have killed for at least a sip before it started. I have worked a couple of shows with a rather famous trumpet player who shared his smoke with the crew ahead of the show rendering them unable to run a light cue or stand for that matter while he played as inspired as he was famous for but I understood a little better why they called him "Dizzy". Also worked a show with a jazz guitarist who needed something a little stronger to get him through the night. I figured that was why he played so fast, his world was running in triple time.
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
The late virtuoso violinist Henryk Szeryng was well known for enjoying a couple of sherries before he went on stage to perform his Paganini concertos. We're all in good company.
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
On re-reading these postings I'm relieved to see that it's all to do with Performance at Sessions. I understand Shakepeare commented somewhere on the effects of alcohol on performance, but I don't think he had music in mind.
Some years ago my wife and I went on vacation in the Austrian Tyrol. One evening we went to the village square to hear the town band. The players marched in, military style, resplendent in their uniforms, assembled on the platform and played, quite well to begin with...
We noticed that after every number young women in national costume would circulate amongst the band with trays loaded with steins of the local beer, each player consuming a stein before they started the next number. It went on like this for the rest of the evening, but it didn't matter because the audience in the square matched the band stein for stein. And a good time was had by all.
It wouldn't be accurate to say that the band marched out of the square at the end of the evening, because they didn't (and couldn't).
A wonderful and memorable evening.
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
I believe it was the Ettrick Shepherd, alias James Hogg, who declared that if a man drank a certain amount, no more and no less, of uisge beatha everyday well he would live forever. The problem was and, as far as I know, still is one of ascertaining exactly what that amount is. I feel that the same principle applies to the performance and I would be inclined to go along with Trevor's idea that if a couple of sherries (or equivalent...and thereby hangs another tale) presumably aided rather than disabled Henrik Szeryng playing his Paganini then that must be as near as dammit the elusive quantity we're looking for. Seriously, I feel that nothing at all is inclined to lead to a stilted, awkward performance while too much leads to calamity. As David says, banjo players tend to be teetotal when they are playing and, in some notable cases, when they have finished as well (a tendency shared with uillean pipers) whereas fiddlers and flautists tend towards the sottier end of the spectrum: a very interesting point which I have observed to generally hold true. Could anyone suggest why that may be? Is there less room to adjust on the banjo when you hit a ghastly note or fluff a triplet?
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
Cojo,
In reply to your last point, indeed yes. If you're playing a plucked instrument there's nowhere to hide if you fluff something; it's played and gone before you can do anything about it. That's one reason why the classical guitar can be such a terrifying instrument for even a seasoned performer to play in public. I once saw a highly respected professional classical guitarist nearly fall to pieces when playing live on late-night tv.
On the other hand, if you play the fiddle or blow something you do have the buffer of a bow or breathing to help tide things over if it suddenly goes pear-shaped.
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
I can't say I've met a totally teetotal piper, but then there aren't all that many pipers around in London. Given the complexity of the pipes, though, it would seem a wise move - drinking and piping could potentially be just as dangerous as drinking and driving. In fact, the title of the Highland pipe reel, The Drunken Piper (albeit a different type of piper), suggests that this is more the exception than the norm.
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
I've been taking Tylenol with Codeine for a knee problem the last few weeks. The sitting around has been a great excuse to practice my fiddling. I can say that I am looser while playing drugged up, but I fatigue after only hour, can barely hold onto my fiddle or bow and have to quit.
Today I am off the meds and can still play the new tunes I have learned as well as when on meds.I don't like medication and prefer to stick to the tea.
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
I know loads of pipers who like a pint (or 10), I notice one friend in particular gets faster and faster the more pints he drinks - by the end of the night I feel as if Ive run a marathon. Its all good fun though.
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
David
Re: teetotal banjo players;
maybe, as (I suspect) you're from North or West London, you're thinking of Mick O'Connor or Mick Murphy, in which case your observation is accurate.
Forgive me if I'm wrong and if I'm bloating my sample size to prove my point, but there's Enda McDermott from Killishandra, Cavan, Phil Nolan from Knocknaboula, Co.Limerick, Foxy, SW London and our very own Jack Kane, SE London, all good banjo players, none of whom I'd dare to call teetotallers - unless I've been missing something......
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
I always play better at about half a pint of whatever it is I'm having. The trouble is, the playing deteriorates after that, so I have to nurse the drink for a bit to make sure that I stay at *just* the right spot for maximum good music. Every now and again I pass it up, dammit. The exception is hard apple cider. It's only a quarter of a pint of that, because for some reason (I assume the sugar), I can get truly drunk on one pint of cider. Just one of those little mysteries, I guess.
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
*snort* Mark, I don't drink single malts at sessions, mainly because I love the stuff (the Balvenie Portwood is my favorite, but who can afford a night of that?), and I generally then have another, and then another...I stick with the pints at sessions.
There have been rare occasions (generally when I'm paying with cash!) when I've had a single malt, but it's only one, and only at the beginning of the night, because I always wake up with a headache if I drink a single malt too late in the evening.
Hot whiskeys, now, I can drink five of those in Ireland and not feel a thing. Literally. *grin*
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
Speaking purely from experience here... in Ireland at least, drinking is a pretty inescapable part of most sessions. Most musicians seem to enjoy a pint or two - whether that impacts the resultant music in a positive or negative way depends entirely on the people at the session. For reticent players, it may cause them to open up a little and play closer to their potential. At the other extreme, it may cause the music to be crap, which is OK as long as everyone is having a good time! Most sessions and players are somewhere in between.
I've been guilty of a few session-indiscretions at the hands of the pint of "genius"; usually consisting of falling backwards off a stool (and even worse, continuing to play). I've also fallen asleep on the box, woken up two hours later and joined in again.This has only happened in the company of good friends, otherwise I would never get into such a state ;¬) However, probably the best session I had the privelege to enjoy was in a friends house. He had just moved in and one of the bedrooms was still bare floorboards and plaster; that's where we played. We had a great piper, flute player and bouzouki player and the refreshments that day were tea and toast. All these guys are no strangers to a case of beer so take from that what you will.
My personal rule of thumb is, drink as much as you're comfortable with and if you overstep the mark and find you can't play a tune all the way through, stop playing. Or switch to the bodhran. It works for me...
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
re whisky & playing ... i find that if i nurse a dram over three or four hours, i stay at that 'just right' point that zina mentioned. if i drink it any faster, pretty soon i can't remember where the violin *is*, let alone where on the strings i should be putting my fingers.
at a session on sunday, i found a solution of sorts: i kicked over my whisky glass before it was half-empty. expensive, but effective ...
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
That's a tragedy indeed, Sarah.
I usually monitor myself well enough (though sometimes my playing mates would disagree), but it's tough when the pub patrons line up to pay for a shot after every set. When you can't see the table for all the glasses, you know you're in trouble....
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
Alcohol is great for the first part of the night when I usually have a few slow beers. Unfortunately I then progress on to single and then finally double Powers [aka Three Swallows - not referring to the number of sips but the birds on the neck label] I then shortly after that progress to the comatose stage.
The result - a cracking first 4 hours or so followed by no recollection of anything. My mates assure me, however, that my playing is fine up to the point of almost instantaneous inebriation.
I guess I'll just have to take their word for it.
Firends of mine have been known to play up to 27 hours without stop - drinking all the time and playing out of their skins. Mind you that was in the twilighht zone of the All Ireland Fleadh with the concomitant adrenaline and the buzz of playing along with some of the finest in the country.
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
Most of us drive to the sessions in and around Bristol (UK), and, drink-driving laws being what they are in the UK, and the police looking for any excuse to stop drivers (especially this time of the year) , we tend to go relatively easy on alcohol unless someone else is driving. Typically, someone who is driving probably won't have more than one or two pints of beer and will top-up with soft drinks as the evening goes on. I consider myself fortunate in that two of the pubs I go to for sessions, one weekly and the other fortnightly, are both within 30 minutes walk from my house.
Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
I'm curious as to how narcotics, such as alcohol, affect peoples' performance on various instruments at various points in their musical development.
Let me share with you (an edited version of) my own experience:
When I first went along to sessions, to play whistle, and some flute, I would get tanked up a bit to dampen down the adrenaline, and I'm sure that's how many beginners feel. I think I was able to play OK, so it must have worked....
As my musical career progressed I could take it or leave it, but usually took it, as I liked having a couple of pints while playing tunes - end of story! It can loosen up your playing - I have no doubt about that. At various junctures, I've been subjected to alternatives, eg, THC, which is great fun for listening to yourself, also for inventing triplets, throwing in extra bits, etc.
Laterally, I've needed a car to transport box & flute & mikes & amps, no adrenaline buzz, no alcohol, still love the craic & the music. Got my sport (running) and (so far) steady job, lovely missus & 2 kids. If I wanna drink, there's tinnies in the fridge. Rarely indulge in the quare stuff...
On occasions (eg Paddy's Day - big down here in Lewisham) I am FORCED to imbibe the odd Guinness. The effects on my playing are as follows:
Flute/whistle - exactly the same as my speech: increasing number of Slurs, with my Scottish accent getting progressively stronger (tunes, intonations).
Box - After 4 pints my slides really do just that.
Thank God I'm a flute player first off!! - box playing is harder anyway, but much harder after some beers.
So - come all ye! - firsty fiddle players, parched pipers, wistful whistle players, footloose flutists, dry D/G boxists, washboardists, Professors of spoonology, Ph.D.'s in bodhranificology, high priests of the Bongo, even the most base of bass players, and so on...those who must always mass-debate these issues...put your feet up and lay bare your soles - and while your at it lay bare your souls...
Tell us what it was like for you.
# Posted on December 11th 2002 by Alf Tupper
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
Howz about harbengers of hammered dulcimers?
I like Guiness but love the ales of Scotland. We have a pub that specializes in the creation of beers that pad the waistline. Sort of an additional layering for those cold frosty mornings (great name for a song by the way). Unfortunately for the HD any inbibing is an invitation to screw up bigtime. You don't "slurr" on a HD at all. I'll sit in and have a Guiness or a Scottish Ale but usually it's after any leads. I'm quickly reduced to doing pentatonic scales and chords. After a couple I'll go back to the guitar and answer questions about my fancy cheese grader. ("The holes are for catching the cheese crumbs")
# Posted on December 1st 2002 by jrathbun
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
Someone once asked the great tenor saxophone player Zoot Sims how he managed to play so well when he was drunk. He answered that he practiced when he was drunk. People who study behavioural pharmacology will verify that this is so. For maximum performance practice in the condition in which you want to perform.
Steve
# Posted on December 1st 2002 by SteveKendall
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
Actually, we encourage the audience to imbibe as much as possible since:
1) Its good for the pub owner, and
2) the more they drink, the better we sound
# Posted on December 1st 2002 by AOG
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
Aha! Drinking and playing Irish music. A perplexing dilemma! Personally I imbibe about a pint an hour, play the guitar and bass and do reasonably well. I try to do any singing on the end of the hour so the words can be understood. I'm finished if I have more than one in an hour....As for practicing while in the condition....the band practices the beer an hour routine at practice as well...
Brent
# Posted on December 1st 2002 by bknjholl
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
Makes no difference here. Sober, might play well, or not. Tipsy, might do same. Depends on the general mood of me and everyone else.Everyone in good mood, everyone play well. Everyone feeling low, play bad, no matter how much liquor or otherwise!
# Posted on December 1st 2002 by Susie-Lee
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
Interesting question. Overall, I don't play better with a few drinks in me, and have learned to pace myself so that I can play better (I hope...) & longer. On the other hand, I rarely play without a pint nearby, even when practicing.
My fluteplaying goes downhill rapidly after more than a couple of pints. Gone are the days of drinking and playing until all hours and spending the next day recovering. But like Dan M. says above, having a happy family and a reliable job more than makes up for it.
The accordion is a different story -- I find I can play the box "better" after a couple of pints, and keep playing when I'd be drunk enough to have given up on the flute for the evening. Don't know how it sounds to others though. Some days I wonder if you'd have to have been a serious drinker to have figured out how to play the damn thing in the first place.
I'm very much against advancing the stereotype that Irish music and drinking of necessity go together, as so many people seem to think, and which is actively promoted by "Irish" pub owners. Saying, "The more you drink, the better we sound" implies that we're not really good enough to entertain you with our music, so let's all drink more and maybe nobody will notice. Sorry, but that doesn't work for me. Now if you were to say, "The more you drink, the better we'll *look*", that's a different story.
Having played with plenty of musicians and audiences in various states of inebriation, I'm glad I don't have to deal with most of them anymore. (This could be less of an issue in Ireland, from what I've seen -- very well behaved drinkers, for the most part.) I don't know what's worse, being on stage with a musician who's had too many, playing for a crowd of tanked yobbos, or having some friendly drunks join you on a stage filled with gear and expensive instruments. I suppose it's an occupational hazard of playing in pubs, but I don't enjoy it. And having said that, I've also seen some very entertaining things, mostly involving naked people and lots of slobbering. You take your humour where you find it.
THC seems like it could be kind of fun, but I smoke so rarely these days that it's always a bit over the top, and I have enough trouble remembering where we are in a set of tunes as it is. I've also heard that there are more than a couple of well-known traditional players who like to have a toot before playing, so if you needed a bit of incentive... I often play with a couple of guys who are usually high though, and I find their performances uninspiring.
Greg
# Posted on December 1st 2002 by Gzeg
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
Greg,
A thoughtful reply.
I kind of agree with your rebuttal of the stereotype: Irish music and drinking go hand in hand. Of course it's nonsense, but personally it doesn't really worry me. Let those who form opinions on the spot, without knowing their topic in depth, do so, as long as they don't have their hands on the levers of power.
Your observation wrt "smokers" producing uninspired performances is interesting. Will bear it in mind.
Strange, I find the box much harder than the flute (esp. with EtOH intoxication), cos with the box you have to find the notes whereas with the flute you merely have to raise or lower the appropriate finger(s).
# Posted on December 1st 2002 by Alf Tupper
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
A pint an hour sounds about right. Times when I've switched to whiskey, I've noticed that the music gets much more powerful and emotive, especially in my own head, which after about four shots is the only place I'm still playing it....
I get a good laugh every time I look at those photos on another web site showing proper flute posture, ending with the one of the player face down on the table top in a halo of empty glasses, heh.
# Posted on December 1st 2002 by Will CPT
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
hmmm - good question, I like a few pints when I play tunes - I actually dont enjoy tunes as much, sounds pretty bad but I do relax and dont feel nervous. As well as that the session I go to has free drinks all night for all musicians so it can be really hard not to drink. Not that Ive ever tried that ;) THC on the other hand - did it once when I was playing tunes and never ever again!! I forgot how to hold hold the fiddle let alone how to actually play a tune and then I was not well - not a good look. But I am pint person
)
# Posted on December 1st 2002 by bb
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
I'm not sure what my opinion is on this. I'm going to keep studying on it until I figure it out,.
# Posted on December 1st 2002 by cuchulain54
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
Cuchulain, judging by the numerous and apparently well-funded roving teams of field researchers, this has to be one of the most studied scientific questions of our day. I think we all have our hypotheses about the answer, of course, but it is gratifying to see so many scientists dedicated to rigorously replicating the experiment and testing the results, offering their own minds and bodies as guinea pigs, no less. Our own research facility here in Helena is small but state of the art. Our study is set up as a double-blind experiment so that no one of us knows on any given night who is under observation and who is responsible for recording and analyzing data. Of course, we are still in the early phase, collecting baseline data, although to date our database is fairly small, even after 5 years of concerted effort....
# Posted on December 1st 2002 by Will CPT
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
Provided you don't use a straw, playing the accordion and having a pint is a good idea as you have to stop occasionally and have a slurp.
When I stop playing and pick up my pint mid-tune, that is an indication that I am bored with this set and is an open invitation for someone else to set off into a new tune.
Performance? - as I practise in the pub, I also play in the pub.
# Posted on December 1st 2002 by geoffwright
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
"I'm very much against advancing the stereotype that Irish music and drinking of necessity go together, as so many people seem to think, and which is actively promoted by "Irish" pub owners."
I'll second Greg on that. The pub session as the principal means of propagating the musical tradition is a relatively new phenomenon, is it not? One might imagine that a century ago, a set of tunes was as likely to be accompanied by a cup of tea and a slice of cake as by a pint of porter or a shot of whiskey.
Personally, I had my last drink ten years ago, and that was before I ever played traditional music, so I can't comment on the effects of drink on my playing - I could comment on its effect on the playing of others. As an occasional "smoker", I can say that THC, provided I don't have too much in one go, seems to me to make me a more creative player - but that may be just how it sounds to me. Too much, and I start to lose co-ordination, become over-conscious of my own physical movements and clean forget the tunes mid-phrase. On the whole, I prefer not to be under the influence of any substance which my body does not manufacture of its own accord. Most of us musicians are half out of our trees as it is.
# Posted on December 2nd 2002 by ragaman
....Incidentally, I know quite a few mandolin and banjo players who never touch a drop. Teetotal fiddlers, accordionists, pipers and flute players, on the other hand, seem to be relatively scarce.
# Posted on December 2nd 2002 by ragaman
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
I never go out to bar just to drink anymore, it's always to go to a session. As far as house sessions it's a fifty/fifty shot as to whether I'm drinking or not. I rarely do when I'm just practicing, mostly it's tea or coffee - which I'm a stuck-up snot-bag about. No maxwell house or lipton for me thanks, even Starbucks doesn't cut the mustard for me. I've been lucky to always live within a mile of a good independant roastery for about 10 years now.
# Posted on December 2nd 2002 by Mad Baloney
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
For me it's one to three pints per session. I like my beer when playing. Another thing, if you drink the bitter stuff, it makes your mouth dryer (I am trying to say this in a tasteful way), which is good because I don't want my whistle to clog halfway through the second reel in a set.
I remember once, while under significant influence of certain substances (and no, I wasn't driving), the session went completely weird. First off, I could hardly remember a tune. I was sitting there feeling foolish wondering how Kesh Jig went again. Second, I found it extremely difficult to reliably count to two: It's a challenge anyway, but that night it was much much worse and I kept plunging into the turn (where I could remember it) on the second A, and so forth. That may have been a result of the third phenomenon, which was that time seemed have lost it's steady reliability: Sometimes the music seemed to drag along and at other times I couldn't account for the last few beats or bars. It was the oddest night and I am sure I made a good few players hate me: if not by my wild playing then by my rambling conversation. It's funny to remember now, though.
# Posted on December 2nd 2002 by Bloomfield
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
There was an amusing interview in one of the Toronto papers a few years ago about this up and coming jazz guitarist, who said his strangest gig was playing a small club while high on mushrooms. He said that half way through the second set his guitar disappeared completely, and although he kept playing, he was quite concerned that somebody would notice that his guitar wasn't there. But nobody did, and eventually his guitar came back and the gig continued without incident.
Oh well, "feed your head" and all that stuff...
# Posted on December 2nd 2002 by Gzeg
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
Can't speak from personal experience on the matter as most of my session experience at this point has been at the "listening" stage and playing in front of audiences has been a formal experience to which when I think of it I probably would have killed for at least a sip before it started. I have worked a couple of shows with a rather famous trumpet player who shared his smoke with the crew ahead of the show rendering them unable to run a light cue or stand for that matter while he played as inspired as he was famous for but I understood a little better why they called him "Dizzy". Also worked a show with a jazz guitarist who needed something a little stronger to get him through the night. I figured that was why he played so fast, his world was running in triple time.
# Posted on December 2nd 2002 by ANNY
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
The late virtuoso violinist Henryk Szeryng was well known for enjoying a couple of sherries before he went on stage to perform his Paganini concertos. We're all in good company.
trevor
# Posted on December 2nd 2002 by lazyhound
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
On re-reading these postings I'm relieved to see that it's all to do with Performance at Sessions. I understand Shakepeare commented somewhere on the effects of alcohol on performance, but I don't think he had music in mind.
trevor
# Posted on December 2nd 2002 by lazyhound
Some years ago my wife and I went on vacation in the Austrian Tyrol. One evening we went to the village square to hear the town band. The players marched in, military style, resplendent in their uniforms, assembled on the platform and played, quite well to begin with...
We noticed that after every number young women in national costume would circulate amongst the band with trays loaded with steins of the local beer, each player consuming a stein before they started the next number. It went on like this for the rest of the evening, but it didn't matter because the audience in the square matched the band stein for stein. And a good time was had by all.
It wouldn't be accurate to say that the band marched out of the square at the end of the evening, because they didn't (and couldn't).
A wonderful and memorable evening.
trevor
# Posted on December 2nd 2002 by lazyhound
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
I believe it was the Ettrick Shepherd, alias James Hogg, who declared that if a man drank a certain amount, no more and no less, of uisge beatha everyday well he would live forever. The problem was and, as far as I know, still is one of ascertaining exactly what that amount is. I feel that the same principle applies to the performance and I would be inclined to go along with Trevor's idea that if a couple of sherries (or equivalent...and thereby hangs another tale) presumably aided rather than disabled Henrik Szeryng playing his Paganini then that must be as near as dammit the elusive quantity we're looking for. Seriously, I feel that nothing at all is inclined to lead to a stilted, awkward performance while too much leads to calamity. As David says, banjo players tend to be teetotal when they are playing and, in some notable cases, when they have finished as well (a tendency shared with uillean pipers) whereas fiddlers and flautists tend towards the sottier end of the spectrum: a very interesting point which I have observed to generally hold true. Could anyone suggest why that may be? Is there less room to adjust on the banjo when you hit a ghastly note or fluff a triplet?
# Posted on December 2nd 2002 by r&c
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
Cojo,
In reply to your last point, indeed yes. If you're playing a plucked instrument there's nowhere to hide if you fluff something; it's played and gone before you can do anything about it. That's one reason why the classical guitar can be such a terrifying instrument for even a seasoned performer to play in public. I once saw a highly respected professional classical guitarist nearly fall to pieces when playing live on late-night tv.
On the other hand, if you play the fiddle or blow something you do have the buffer of a bow or breathing to help tide things over if it suddenly goes pear-shaped.
trevor
# Posted on December 3rd 2002 by lazyhound
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
I can't say I've met a totally teetotal piper, but then there aren't all that many pipers around in London. Given the complexity of the pipes, though, it would seem a wise move - drinking and piping could potentially be just as dangerous as drinking and driving. In fact, the title of the Highland pipe reel, The Drunken Piper (albeit a different type of piper), suggests that this is more the exception than the norm.
# Posted on December 3rd 2002 by ragaman
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
I've been taking Tylenol with Codeine for a knee problem the last few weeks. The sitting around has been a great excuse to practice my fiddling. I can say that I am looser while playing drugged up, but I fatigue after only hour, can barely hold onto my fiddle or bow and have to quit.
Today I am off the meds and can still play the new tunes I have learned as well as when on meds.I don't like medication and prefer to stick to the tea.
Richard - No. VA
# Posted on December 3rd 2002 by rtucker
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
I know loads of pipers who like a pint (or 10), I notice one friend in particular gets faster and faster the more pints he drinks - by the end of the night I feel as if Ive run a marathon. Its all good fun though.
# Posted on December 3rd 2002 by bb
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
David
Re: teetotal banjo players;
maybe, as (I suspect) you're from North or West London, you're thinking of Mick O'Connor or Mick Murphy, in which case your observation is accurate.
Forgive me if I'm wrong and if I'm bloating my sample size to prove my point, but there's Enda McDermott from Killishandra, Cavan, Phil Nolan from Knocknaboula, Co.Limerick, Foxy, SW London and our very own Jack Kane, SE London, all good banjo players, none of whom I'd dare to call teetotallers - unless I've been missing something......
# Posted on December 3rd 2002 by Alf Tupper
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
I always play better at about half a pint of whatever it is I'm having. The trouble is, the playing deteriorates after that, so I have to nurse the drink for a bit to make sure that I stay at *just* the right spot for maximum good music. Every now and again I pass it up, dammit. The exception is hard apple cider. It's only a quarter of a pint of that, because for some reason (I assume the sugar), I can get truly drunk on one pint of cider. Just one of those little mysteries, I guess.
zls
# Posted on December 3rd 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
Zina,
Zina - I'm impressed. I would surely pass out after a half pint of single malt.
# Posted on December 5th 2002 by Mark Cordova
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
*snort* Mark, I don't drink single malts at sessions, mainly because I love the stuff (the Balvenie Portwood is my favorite, but who can afford a night of that?), and I generally then have another, and then another...I stick with the pints at sessions.
There have been rare occasions (generally when I'm paying with cash!) when I've had a single malt, but it's only one, and only at the beginning of the night, because I always wake up with a headache if I drink a single malt too late in the evening.
Hot whiskeys, now, I can drink five of those in Ireland and not feel a thing. Literally. *grin*
zls
# Posted on December 5th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
Domhnaill - I am indeed a West Londoner. I know Messrs. O'Connor and Murphy, Foxy, and a few other examples besides (myself included).
# Posted on December 5th 2002 by ragaman
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
Speaking purely from experience here... in Ireland at least, drinking is a pretty inescapable part of most sessions. Most musicians seem to enjoy a pint or two - whether that impacts the resultant music in a positive or negative way depends entirely on the people at the session. For reticent players, it may cause them to open up a little and play closer to their potential. At the other extreme, it may cause the music to be crap, which is OK as long as everyone is having a good time! Most sessions and players are somewhere in between.
I've been guilty of a few session-indiscretions at the hands of the pint of "genius"; usually consisting of falling backwards off a stool (and even worse, continuing to play). I've also fallen asleep on the box, woken up two hours later and joined in again.This has only happened in the company of good friends, otherwise I would never get into such a state ;¬) However, probably the best session I had the privelege to enjoy was in a friends house. He had just moved in and one of the bedrooms was still bare floorboards and plaster; that's where we played. We had a great piper, flute player and bouzouki player and the refreshments that day were tea and toast. All these guys are no strangers to a case of beer so take from that what you will.
My personal rule of thumb is, drink as much as you're comfortable with and if you overstep the mark and find you can't play a tune all the way through, stop playing. Or switch to the bodhran. It works for me...
Conán
# Posted on December 5th 2002 by Conán McDonnell
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
re whisky & playing ... i find that if i nurse a dram over three or four hours, i stay at that 'just right' point that zina mentioned. if i drink it any faster, pretty soon i can't remember where the violin *is*, let alone where on the strings i should be putting my fingers.
at a session on sunday, i found a solution of sorts: i kicked over my whisky glass before it was half-empty. expensive, but effective ...
sarah
# Posted on December 5th 2002 by eleyne
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
And that Sarah is what we call alcohol abuse.
# Posted on December 5th 2002 by Mark Cordova
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
That's a tragedy indeed, Sarah.
I usually monitor myself well enough (though sometimes my playing mates would disagree), but it's tough when the pub patrons line up to pay for a shot after every set. When you can't see the table for all the glasses, you know you're in trouble....
# Posted on December 5th 2002 by Will CPT
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
Alcohol is great for the first part of the night when I usually have a few slow beers. Unfortunately I then progress on to single and then finally double Powers [aka Three Swallows - not referring to the number of sips but the birds on the neck label] I then shortly after that progress to the comatose stage.
The result - a cracking first 4 hours or so followed by no recollection of anything. My mates assure me, however, that my playing is fine up to the point of almost instantaneous inebriation.
I guess I'll just have to take their word for it.
Firends of mine have been known to play up to 27 hours without stop - drinking all the time and playing out of their skins. Mind you that was in the twilighht zone of the All Ireland Fleadh with the concomitant adrenaline and the buzz of playing along with some of the finest in the country.
# Posted on December 6th 2002 by breandan
Re: Effects of Alcohol (and other things) on your Performance at Sessions
Most of us drive to the sessions in and around Bristol (UK), and, drink-driving laws being what they are in the UK, and the police looking for any excuse to stop drivers (especially this time of the year) , we tend to go relatively easy on alcohol unless someone else is driving. Typically, someone who is driving probably won't have more than one or two pints of beer and will top-up with soft drinks as the evening goes on. I consider myself fortunate in that two of the pubs I go to for sessions, one weekly and the other fortnightly, are both within 30 minutes walk from my house.
trevor
# Posted on December 6th 2002 by lazyhound