Have just finished watching Northern Ireland´s well- deserved football victory over Spain (3-2).
Before the match the national anthems were played, Spain´s first, then "God Save The Queen" for Northern Ireland.
Now that´s perfectly correct given the status of Northern Ireland in the UK, and probably reflects the wishes of just over half of the population living there.
But two of the other countries that make up the UK (Wales and Scotland) have their own anthems that are played before international matches, so shouldn´t there be an anthem for Northern Ireland ?
What about "The Star of The County Down" ? Any suggestions, facetious or otherwise ?
Phil Coulter's song "The Town I Loved So Well", about Londonderry, might not suit everyone's tastes or sympathies as a song but it does have an anthemic tune.
I suggest you find two tunes, one for each community, that syncopate and harmonise when played together, as an example to all.
Can't think of any other solution that would be mutually acceptable.
Then you'ld have to decide who started first, or got the top line........
PS Didn't they actually spell it "Doire" for all sporting occasions ?
PPS I'm sure I remember some discussion a while ago about a young lad who sang"The town I loved so well" at a session and was told off for singing it because he was too young to understand its implications; I thought it's implications were the writer mourning the generalised destruction of people and atmosphere, non-partisan, non-specific.
G. Pete's idea reminds me of a trick of my very musical brother, who can whistle "Dixie" while humming the melody to "Yankee Doodle," simultaneously. And they make a nice counterpoint, even if they're oversimplified musical characatures of the once warring regions.
Well that´s interesting, BB, because I thought it was the other way round. I remember reading something about the city of Derry being under siege by the army of King James, and some apprentices from London came to help them hold out against the King. They held out successfully and, to comemorate this event, the powers that be announced that the city would henceforth be known as Londonderry, or as I´ve seen it written sometimes "L/Derry" presumably to make it more palatable to the nationalists.
Wrt Danny Boy, I read that the London Derrière was also referred to as "The Air from Co. Derry".
Anyway it´s all there on internet for those that are interested.
Interesting suggestion above to find a tune that would please both communities. Perhaps an interwoven version of Kevin Barry and The Sash My Father Wore. That would be a musical challenge for someone !
Perfectly correct to play God save the Queen for "Northern Ireland"??!! -after all the trouble and brutality that the english monarchy/rule has caused in Ireland!! you'd need to be joking!!
How about "God shave the queen" ? -since the queens of england, through the years, have a history of being ugly and in some cases fairly masculine!
Double Bass, by ´perfectly correct` I mean that it is accepted in international law. It certainly doesn´t mean that I approve of the present situation in the six counties or the historical events that brought about that situation.
Fair enough i withdraw the comment!lol
But seriously murfbox: i can't see how anyone (not necessarily yourself,since you don't approve of the situation) can find it acceptable that god save the queen should be sung for "northern ireland"!
There is no need for an niAnthem, because it is not even a legitimate country or state-it's a false state that was established by a treaty that was forced by threat of war!
Sílim go bhfuil an pointe déanta
I'm embarrassed to admit this, but I don't know what Scotland's national anthem is. Can anyone tell me? Don't know about Wales either, for that matter...
"The Sash My Father Wore" - in Gaelic.
[ This is not an original suggestion. Some cyclists apparently did this on a charity cycle ride from Dublin to Belfast. ]
Please don't let's start on the non-subject of a Scottish national anthem.
Dave, perhaps < 'I'll Tell Me Ma' > doesn't quite have the right kind off 'anthem' quality to it. However, it is widely played & sung by both communities up here, so from that point of view would appear to be accepted by one & all as - 'their' song, which is interesting.
However, if we're looking for a more appropriate rhythm, then perhaps a song like the "Wild Mountain Thyme"/"Will ye go Lassie go" would better suit the bill?
Now to musical members of the Catholic &/or Nationalist community up here, this song is widely regarded as being "The Wild Mountain Thyme" by 'Francis McPeake'
"Wild Mountain Thyme," also commonly known as "Will You Go Lassie, Go" was first recorded by Francis McPeake in 1957 for the series "As I Roved Out" on BBC.
N.B. We've found conflicting information on whether he actually wrote this song. Ireland the Songs, Volume 2, pub. 1993 Walton Mfg, Walton Music Inc. says, "He learned it from his uncle, which gives it definite Ulster credentials."
Lyrics
"Oh, the summertime is coming,
And the trees are sweetly blooming
And the wild mountain thyme,
Grows around the bloom’ heather.
Will ya go lassie go?
Chorus:
And we’ll all go together
To pluck wild mountain thyme
All around the bloomin’ heather.
Will ya go lassie go?"
Whereas, to musical members of the Protestant &/or Loyalist community this is more commonly thought of as being a Scottish song:
"Eric Winter writes in the liner notes of the 1995 re-release of The Corries:
In Concert/Scottish Love Songs: ... this is an elegant variant of a Scottish song by Robert Tannahill (1774-1819), "The Braes of Balquidder."
The senior member of the McPeake family of Belfast, Francis I, wrote this version (the tune is markedly different from Tannahill's) and dedicated it to his first wife.
Long after she died, he married again and his son, Francis II, wrote an extra verse to celebrate the marriage."
'Will Ye Go Lassie Go'
"The lyrics are by Scottish poet Robert Tannahill (1774-1810) of Paisley.
The poem is called ‘The Braes of Balquidder’, spelled variously ‘The Braes of Balquheder’ or ‘Braes o' Balquhidder’ (pronounced 'Balwhither') which was printed as early as 1742.
Tannahill's version first appeared in a collection of songs in Pocket Encyclopedia of Scotch, English, and Irish Songs, II 1818. The song had circulated prior to that in magazines."
“Oh the summertime is coming
And the trees are sweetly blooming
And the wild mountain thyme
Grows around the blooming heather
Will ye go, Lassie go?
Chorus
And we'll all go together
To pluck wild mountain thyme
All around the blooming heather
Will ye go, Lassie go?”
So, we have a song whose lyrics are by a Scotsman but whose current popular melody was written by an Irishman – could this be the one?
It is interesting that one & all seem to be able to relate to this song as ‘theirs’.
So this, or something like it, might just work for everyone?
Or, of course, on the other hand, we could just pick one of the many superb hits from the Eurovision Song Contest!
What English monarchy? We haven't had one of those since 1603 when James Stuart, the Scottish king, came down to the comfortable south and rolled England and Scotland up into one. And weren't the previous lot Welsh anyway?
But seriously I, too, have heard Danny Boy used as Northern Ireland's anthem for international events.
"The senior member of the McPeake family of Belfast, Francis I, wrote this version ".
There has always been doubt about this song being written by the McPeakes.The granddaughter of Francis Joseph Biggar informed me that the First Francis McPeake learned this song from a traveller in Biggar`s home about 100 years ago.Its a traditional air ,on both sides of the sea of Moyle,so if Harry B.doesn`t object lets just call it an Ulster Scots Traditional song-ideal for the Norn Ireland football team!!!
Harry, I simply thought that to go with a simple love song, & one which is actually already acceptable to everyone up here, might have made some sense & perhaps saved us from ending up with yet another triumphalist march, like so many other anthems.
So many folks in Scotland for example, seem to favour 'Flower of Scotland' or 'Scotland the Brave' neither of which escape the dreaded politics, whereas I think a Scottish love song like Dougie's 'Caledonia', would be a far better choice.
I say, let's here more 'love songs' at these events. It is after all, just possible to think fondly of your own country, without getting caught up in the politics trap!
Yes, a simple "Ulster- Scots traditional song" as you put it. No baggage or anything there, no racial implications, great. Good thinking.
What about Geordie Hanna's harmless traditional ode of love of one's place "Paddy's Green Shamrock Shore"... that would go down a 'bomb' in certain circles.
you are so right ,Harry,Its the most natural thing in the world!
We all hold onto what we perceive as our culture no-matter who slags it off-which makes us even more withdrawn and protective.
Duh Harry, now are you just being plain silly, or deliberately provocative.
Obviously Geordies song, beautiful though it is, would hardly be regarded as suitable or appropriate to all.
For a start it uses words like Paddy, Derry town, Ireland, etc which would hardly endear it to 50% of the locals.
The point I was making with the ‘Wild Mountain Thyme’ was that it only makes mention of things like mountains, streams, heather, etc., all of which are in abundance in Ulster as well as in Scotland & Ireland, so it can in fact be thought of fondly without their automatically being a single political or geographical boundary to it.
But then I didn’t really need to explain that, did I?
I’m sure it was obvious to most folk here.
The song is obviously of Scottish origin and is unnaimously considered to be Scottish trad arr., the McPeak's claim of authorship is as notorious as it is incorrect.
While we are talking of context (the terrible evils of 'Paddy', 'Derry' etc.); in the context of the North of Ireland, a Scottish traditional song as a representitive seems a bit silly, and irrellevant doesn't it?
But, times being as they are, its probably perfectly reasonable. Such is the power of not getting our own jokes.
From my experience (here in the US), Wild Mountain Thyme is the most popular song that frequently appears at both Irish-oriented and Scottish-oriented events--everyone seems to know the chorus. So, while it may not be suitable as an anthem, it seems to be an example of how a good song knows no political boundaries.
The Braes O' Balquhidder
Robert Tannahill (1744-1810) Biography of Robert Tannahill
Two verses and choruses: MP3 (838K)
The Braes of Balquidder is sung by 3 Pints Gone
on their CD The Beaches of St. Valery.
Please refer to Cantaria's Copyright information
Notes: there is very probable that this song was the original form of "Wild Mountain Thyme." It's a very lovely song, performed by the Tannahill Weavers on capernaum. According to the capernaum liner notes, "The Braes o' Balquihidder" appeared twice in R.A. Smith's Scottish Minstrel (1821-1824) - Vol I, p. 49 and Vol. IV, p. 89. The latter air is a modification of the first and is called "The Three Carles o' Buchanan."
Irish traditional singer Elizabeth Cronin sang this song, too, but the tune was quite different. In The Songs of Elizabeth Cronin, the notes say "the song was composed by the Scottish poet Robert Tannahill and set to music by R.A. Smith." This might be the first version of Smith's tune.
Balquihidder is pronounced bal'-whither.
The village of Balquidder lies in central Scotland and is mainly known for being the burial place of Rob Roy. To this day the entire village consists of a cemetery and church ruins, a community center, a B&B, a shop or two and some absolutely breath-taking scenery.
Let us go, lassie, to,
Tae the braes o' Balquhidder,
Whar the blueberries grow
'Mang the bonnie Hielan heather
Whar the deer and the rae
Lichtly bounding thegither,
Sport the lang summer day
On the braes o' Balquhidder.
I will twin thee a bow'r
By the clear silver fountain,
And I'll cover it o'er
Wi' the flooers o' the mountain
I will range through the wilds
And the deep glens sae dreary,
And return wi' their spoils
Tae the bow'r o' my dearie.
Whe the rude wintry win'
Idly waves roun' oor dwellin'
And the roar o' the linn
On the night breeze is swellin'
So merrily we'll sing
As the storm rattles o'er us
Till the dear sheilin' ring
Wi' the light liltin chorus.
Noo the summers in prime
Wi' the flooers richly bloomin'
Wi' the wild mountain thyme
A' the moorlan's perfumin'
Tae oor dear native scenes
Let us journey thegither,
Whar glad innocence reigns,
Mang the braes o' Balquhidder.
Glossary:
brae - hill
twin - plait (braid/weave)
rae - roe deer
linn - waterfall
flooer - flower
hielan' - highland
lichtly - lightly
lang - long
mang - among
nicht - night
sheilin - cottage
OK Harry, so if that song is not going to work for you, which will?
Murfbox was asking for suggestions & I know you have already recommended that we should - "choose a piece from outside 'tradition' in any sense.", but I wonder, do you yourself have any specific suggestions or recommendations in mind that we may consider, for 'outside tradition' is just a little vague I think & doesn't really take us too far in this quest for an ideal song.
'Outside tradition' means just that. A new composition that doesn't reference any potentially divisive areas.
I don't know, get a composer to write one, that's what they do. I wouldn't really care if it was 'The Birdie Song' once it didn't play up to any narrow little cultural or political idea of what it means to be from the North.
Anthems don't mean much to me if they're harmless, in the same way as nationalism doesn't concern me much if it's not at the expense of others.
My name is David Trimble I'm nifty, neat and nimble
On my backside I've a pimple that festers in July
I can scratch it, I can squeeze it with ointment I can grease it
But the only way to ease it is to go marching with the boys
V) It's just a little orange pimple, so soft and cute and simple
Harmless as a dimple, until the marching season comes
It swells with inflammation causing irritation
How can I sit in negotiations with a pimple on my bum.
I met my loyal Bretheren, a most unhappy gathering
In the sunshine they were sweltering in the churchyard of Drumcree
To march to Ballyoran with drums and banners blowing
They had been stopped from going by the loyal R.U.C
V) And my little Orange pimple grew as hard as any thimble
It was ringing like a cymbal and throbbing like a drum
It swelled with inflammation causing irritation
How could I sit in negotiations with a pimple on me bum
Say I to Sir Hugh Ainsley, 'No matter what your plans may be
And whatever Rupublicans may say this march must be allowed'
Says he 'Don't mind their blether, sit back and enjoy the weather
And we'll all march down together when we get a better crowd'
V) And my little Orange pimple grew as hard as any thimble
It was ringing like a cymbal and throbbing like a drum
It swelled with inflammation causing irritation
How could I sit in negotiations with a pimple on me bum
The people of Garvaghey, you couldn't keep them happy
There were some of them shouting 'Tiocfaidh' though they never say a hen
With the R.U.C before us, their batons waving o'er us
We all sang in a chorus, 'happy days are here again'
V) And my little Orange pimple grew as hard as any thimble
It was ringing like a cymbal and throbbing like a drum
It swelled with inflammation causing irritation
How could I sit in negotiations with a pimple on me bum
Here's a health to Paddy Mayhew, Hugh Ainsley and his gay crew
They showed us what we may do whenever we feel inclined
With them to fight our battles, we'll let our drumbeats rattle
And give each a Drumcree medal with the spelling right this time
V) And my little Orange pimple grew as hard as any thimble
It was ringing like a cymbal and throbbing like a drum
It swelled with inflammation causing irritation
How could I sit in negotiations with a pimple on me bum
My name is David Trimble, I was nifty neat and nimble
My little Orange pimple has grown into a boil
Now I dare not squeeze or scratch it or in any way detach it
For I know I'm for the hatchet if I seem to be disloyal.
And my little Orange pimple, so soft and cute and simple
Harmless as a dimple, until the marching season comes
It swells with inflammation causing irritation
How can I sit in negotiations with a pimple on my bum?
Taken from that hotbed of republican malcontent (manned by such dangerous extremists as 'Slasher' John Moulden and 'Tripswitch' Jerry O'Rielly) The Mudcat Cafe.
The song a nation once again would cetainly ruffle a few feathers and raise a few pints as the anthem at the next football match. Might start a riot too so maybe not the best one to play.
Harry B - If The Corrs or Altan or some such outfit translated that one into Gaelic and sang it to a good backing, people all over the world (not having a clue what it all meant) would think "How romantic!", and buy it in droves.
All your suggestions have been pre-empted since Neil Diamond's 'Sweet Caroline' has already been adopted by the Windsor Park crowd to celebrate the NI football team's rare victories. Still, the last David Healy goal was a cracker, no matter whom you support.
On a different note, it should be ex-RUC Chief Constable 'Hugh Annesley' in the Trimble/pimple song and, on an even more different note, it really is time that people stopped referring to the Six Counties/Northern Ireland/The North as having only two communities. This ignores increasing multi-ethnicity, migrant workers from various parts of Europe and the fact that many people in the SC choose not to identify themselves with either Republicanism or Loyalism, Nationalism or Unionism or with any religious practice whatsoever.
Hey, I thought singing 'Sweet Caroline' at games was a Boston Red Sox thing, but then I heard the crowd singing it at a Washington Nationals game, and now I read that it has gone overseas. When I first heard that song, it never never never occurred to me that it would become popular to sing at sporting events!
Sweet Caroline eh - sounds good to me. So they didn't need our advice after all!
Lyrics
by Neil Diamond
"Where it began, I can't begin to know when
But then I know it's growing strong
Oh, wasn't the spring, whooo
And spring became the summer
Who'd believe you'd come along
Hands, touching hands, reaching out
Touching me, touching you
Oh, sweet Caroline
Good times never seem so good
I've been inclined to believe it never would
And now I, I look at the night, whooo
And it don't seem so lonely
We fill it up with only two, oh
And when I hurt
Hurting runs off my shoulder
How can I hurt when holding you
Oh, one, touching one, reaching out
Touching me, touching you
Oh, sweet Caroline
Good times never seem so good
Oh I've been inclined to believe it never would
Ohhh, sweet Caroline, good times never seem so good"
I don't see anything in those lyrics to cause upset or for anyone to get their knickers in a twist over.
Mind you, what lyrics will the lads on the terraces be singing, before long - I mean they're bound to adopt their own colourful lyrics, arent they?
I take great offence at your slur on 'The Provence' re. not promoting multiculturalism.
We extend a warm welcome to all Scots creeds, and have an excellent record on accomodating our long standing brethern The Lesser Lowland Makey-Upey Scot.
Geoff`s remarks on new ethnic minorities in the 6 of 9 make me wonder what will happen if and when the thousands of Portuguese migrant workers in the Lurgan /Craigavon area ,for example,start buying up every fiddle,flute and chanter in sight
and take to music making with the Armagh Piper`s club.
In years to come Will their decendants be scorned if they eventually claim a unique Ulster /porto identity?Or shall their efforts be embraced and encouraged by the indigenous population?And they reckon Bulgarians and Roumanians will soon be here in their droves.
Murfbox, we are in agreement, the City was originally Derry, the other name was invented by the East London Company or whatever, English Capitalists, calling it after their own company. The County dates much later, as all of the Counties were created by England, to whom we are eternally grateful, otherwise there would be no All Ireland football and hurling.
New Percussionist, "A Nation once again" is divisive among Republicans/Nationalists as it is, never mind Loyalists.
And does anyone actually object to "Danny Boy", we simply have an air, forget the words.
The Republic of Ireland would also benefit from having one of the many outstanding airs, without words, as an anthem instead of the current, militaristic nonsense.
To go back to "The Wild Mountain Thyme", my copy of it, written in the key of A ( impossible to sing ), has it collected by Sir Hubert Parry, from Francis McPeake, in 1895.
So it's copyright McPeake, which makes a change from the collector holding the copyright.
My band does a rather nice set of variations on it, impossible to transcribe.
As for an anthem, I refer the members to my previous answer.
Could we just argue about Tony Blair instead, it might be simpler ( NOT ! ).
Our own (USA) anthem commemorates the survival of a nationalist symbol following a battle during a war. Surely Northern Ireland could use our example by finding a song about a suitable battle with a suitable nationalistic symbol that survived.
Neither the Free State nor Norn Iron football teams are worth a sh**e.
The fact that once in a very blue moon they get a team that's not on form and score a few goals isn't exactly to be celebrated. If we had one true Ireland team then we might be in with a better chance of actually getting somewhere in international cometition - then we can sing whatever the feck we wanted!
After the previous week's defeat at the hands of Iceland it was being said that they were going on to play Tesco and Sainsburys the next two fixtures and Paddy Power were giving odds on the latter winning double!!
Breandan, you say, "defeat at the hands of Iceland" & go on to mention Tesco & Sainsburys, so are you talking about the country Iceland ................................... or the frozen food chain?
You also said - "Neither the Free State nor Norn Iron football teams are worth a sh**e."
So can you explain how it is that there is an 'All Ireland' team for that quintessential of English games - Rugby, & yet separate teams for the British sport of Soccer?
“The origin of Rugby football is largely credited to a young man named William Webb Ellis who "took the ball in his arms [i.e. caught the ball] and ran" while playing Association football at Rugby school in 1823.”
“Britain is the undisputed birthplace of modern soccer/association football.
Scotland and England being co-founders of the organised game.
Football - as soccer is called in Britain - was a popular sport of the masses from the 8th century onwards.
But the game at that time was a war game!
There is a story which places the first football game in the east of England - where the locals played 'football' with the severed head of a Danish Prince they had defeated in battle!”
I'm sure your right, & there would of course be a far greater chance of success with an All Ireland Football team - so any idea why that has never come about?
The (All) Ireland Rugby team could probably come up with a good rousing song that slags off all sides without fear or favour, and is therefore impartial. Rugby players after all can have a way with words, and like a song or two(!) - in contrast to a lot of soccer players.
where's northern ireland ?, never heard of it and i'm a belfast man. ; - ).
always liked the scotish anthem,when i've went to see scot harrison fights ,hairs up on the back of the neck stuff. for an irish boxer coming into the ring, it would have to be " follow me up to carlow" for me.
Dick - absolutely right. I should have referred to it as soccer [sacair in Irish].
The only ball game worth talking about being hurling [iomaníocht] with gaelic football being the next best thing.
The reason why there is no all ireland soccer team is very simple - the Northern Ireland soccer boys would have nothing to do with the fenians down south. Witness also the lack of coverage for the recent win over Spain in the [now defunct] Daily Ireland and Irish News. The reality is that the vast majority of Norn Irn fans come from the loyalist tradition. This may be changing but we only need look back a couple of years at the loyalist death threats against Neil Lennon of Celtic when he turned out for them In the end he had to quit.
We can also reflect on the sad demise of Belfast Celtivcdue to sectarianism and the choice of the Derry City candy stripes to play in the ROI leagues rather than subject themselves to the sectarianism of the likes of Linfield supporters.
Singing Danny Boy or the likes is very unlikey to win them over. The only possibility [and my hope] is that they get even fewer of such wins, get thrashed on a regular basis and finally realise that an all island team would be much better than the current 72nd place in the world rankings!
The we could maybe compose a song entitled Land of our Mothers, Flower of Ireland, or some such drivel
As for the Rugby boys - they never cared what the anthem was because they were well enough off in middle and upper class suburbia to be above all that nonsense when it came to having a good time, beating the bejasus out of yer mates in the scrum, and drinking yersel sill to the wee small hours with the rest of the solicitors, doctors, publicans etc.
###The reason why there is no all ireland soccer team is very simple - the Northern Ireland soccer boys would have nothing to do with the fenians down south.####
Just a technical note here, but it was actually the FAI who seceeded from the IFA, a couple of years after independence.
For the next 30 odd years both Assocations claimed to be the true "Irish" football (soccer) Assoc and both fielded international teams named "Ireland". There was no "Northern Ire" and no '"Rep of Ire". In fact they often fielded some of the same players. There is the famous incidence of Jackie Carey (the greatest Irish player to ever play for Man Utd) captaining the IFA's version of Ireland on a Sat in an international and leading out the FAI's version the folowing Wed.
It was FIFA who stepped in a dictated that each Assoc had to represent it's own jurisdiction and henceforth the IFA's team was to be known as Northern Ireland and the FAI's the Republic.
Had FIFA decided to favour one Assoc over the other we would have a united Irish team today, either HQ'd in Belfast or Dublin depending on who FIFA would have picked.
So it's actually all FIFA's fault.
The International Olympic Commitee recognises only one Ireland.
I don't know about anyone else here , but Northern Ireland has many great anthems. It just depends where you are and who your with when you sing them. I have no problem with The Sash, The Fields of Athenrye, Danny Boy or even The Auld Orange Flute.
Let's face it, most english people don't sing their national anthem really, yet they have loads of great songs, so why do we have to have just one from N.I.?
Someone tried to goad me into the Derry/Londonderry debate before and I maintain what I said them, Who Really Cares?
Anthem for Northern Ireland
Anthem for Northern Ireland
Have just finished watching Northern Ireland´s well- deserved football victory over Spain (3-2).
Before the match the national anthems were played, Spain´s first, then "God Save The Queen" for Northern Ireland.
Now that´s perfectly correct given the status of Northern Ireland in the UK, and probably reflects the wishes of just over half of the population living there.
But two of the other countries that make up the UK (Wales and Scotland) have their own anthems that are played before international matches, so shouldn´t there be an anthem for Northern Ireland ?
What about "The Star of The County Down" ? Any suggestions, facetious or otherwise ?
# Posted on September 6th 2006 by murfbox
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
How about 'Ulster Scots Wha Ha'e', but then again, maybe not, eh!
# Posted on September 6th 2006 by curlew
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
Northern Ireland's status within the uk is that of an occupied territory. Give Ireland back to the Irish by Wings would be a good anthem
# Posted on September 6th 2006 by strayaway
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
Phil Coulter's song "The Town I Loved So Well", about Londonderry, might not suit everyone's tastes or sympathies as a song but it does have an anthemic tune.
# Posted on September 6th 2006 by nicholas
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
Nicholas, there is no such place as londonderry. Its proper name is Derry
# Posted on September 6th 2006 by strayaway
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
I suggest you find two tunes, one for each community, that syncopate and harmonise when played together, as an example to all.
Can't think of any other solution that would be mutually acceptable.
Then you'ld have to decide who started first, or got the top line........
PS Didn't they actually spell it "Doire" for all sporting occasions ?
PPS I'm sure I remember some discussion a while ago about a young lad who sang"The town I loved so well" at a session and was told off for singing it because he was too young to understand its implications; I thought it's implications were the writer mourning the generalised destruction of people and atmosphere, non-partisan, non-specific.
# Posted on September 6th 2006 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
PPPs; Wales is only a principality.
# Posted on September 6th 2006 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
They have used "Danny Boy" as the anthem at the Commonwealth games for years, and seems acceptable.
There is a Co.Londonderry, comprising parts of what was Tyrone and Co.Coleraine. Bill Clinton got it right, "The city of Derry, in Co.Londonderry".
# Posted on September 7th 2006 by bodhran bliss
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
G. Pete's idea reminds me of a trick of my very musical brother, who can whistle "Dixie" while humming the melody to "Yankee Doodle," simultaneously. And they make a nice counterpoint, even if they're oversimplified musical characatures of the once warring regions.
# Posted on September 7th 2006 by Will CPT
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
No matter what ends up an anthem, there'll always be someone who wants to sing from the wrong hymm sheet.
I suggest Y.M.C.A. by The Village People. The north of Ireland needs more 'camp'.
Regards,
Harry.
ps. On second thoughts, its too easily corrupted to "P.I.R.A." to be a workable solution... maybe a nice instrumental instead.
# Posted on September 7th 2006 by Harry B
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
Well that´s interesting, BB, because I thought it was the other way round. I remember reading something about the city of Derry being under siege by the army of King James, and some apprentices from London came to help them hold out against the King. They held out successfully and, to comemorate this event, the powers that be announced that the city would henceforth be known as Londonderry, or as I´ve seen it written sometimes "L/Derry" presumably to make it more palatable to the nationalists.
Wrt Danny Boy, I read that the London Derrière was also referred to as "The Air from Co. Derry".
Anyway it´s all there on internet for those that are interested.
Interesting suggestion above to find a tune that would please both communities. Perhaps an interwoven version of Kevin Barry and The Sash My Father Wore. That would be a musical challenge for someone !
# Posted on September 7th 2006 by murfbox
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
Wasn't ireland's call written as a cross border anthem for the rugger bugger fraternity.
It's a cheesy anthem, but an anthem nonetheless.
# Posted on September 7th 2006 by copo24
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
Perfectly correct to play God save the Queen for "Northern Ireland"??!! -after all the trouble and brutality that the english monarchy/rule has caused in Ireland!! you'd need to be joking!!
How about "God shave the queen" ? -since the queens of england, through the years, have a history of being ugly and in some cases fairly masculine!
# Posted on September 7th 2006 by double bass
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
Double Bass, by ´perfectly correct` I mean that it is accepted in international law. It certainly doesn´t mean that I approve of the present situation in the six counties or the historical events that brought about that situation.
# Posted on September 7th 2006 by murfbox
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
Fair enough i withdraw the comment!lol
But seriously murfbox: i can't see how anyone (not necessarily yourself,since you don't approve of the situation) can find it acceptable that god save the queen should be sung for "northern ireland"!
There is no need for an niAnthem, because it is not even a legitimate country or state-it's a false state that was established by a treaty that was forced by threat of war!
Sílim go bhfuil an pointe déanta
# Posted on September 7th 2006 by double bass
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
Tell me Ma
# Posted on September 7th 2006 by Dave_
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
The Soldier's Sash.
God Save Our Fathers.
# Posted on September 7th 2006 by LastToFinish
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
I'm embarrassed to admit this, but I don't know what Scotland's national anthem is. Can anyone tell me? Don't know about Wales either, for that matter...
# Posted on September 7th 2006 by kennedy
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
Flower of Scotland?
Men of Harlech?
# Posted on September 7th 2006 by RockyRoader
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
"The Sash My Father Wore" - in Gaelic.
[ This is not an original suggestion. Some cyclists apparently did this on a charity cycle ride from Dublin to Belfast. ]
Please don't let's start on the non-subject of a Scottish national anthem.
# Posted on September 7th 2006 by Kenny
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
Dave, perhaps < 'I'll Tell Me Ma' > doesn't quite have the right kind off 'anthem' quality to it. However, it is widely played & sung by both communities up here, so from that point of view would appear to be accepted by one & all as - 'their' song, which is interesting.
However, if we're looking for a more appropriate rhythm, then perhaps a song like the "Wild Mountain Thyme"/"Will ye go Lassie go" would better suit the bill?
Now to musical members of the Catholic &/or Nationalist community up here, this song is widely regarded as being "The Wild Mountain Thyme" by 'Francis McPeake'
"Wild Mountain Thyme," also commonly known as "Will You Go Lassie, Go" was first recorded by Francis McPeake in 1957 for the series "As I Roved Out" on BBC.
N.B. We've found conflicting information on whether he actually wrote this song. Ireland the Songs, Volume 2, pub. 1993 Walton Mfg, Walton Music Inc. says, "He learned it from his uncle, which gives it definite Ulster credentials."
Lyrics
"Oh, the summertime is coming,
And the trees are sweetly blooming
And the wild mountain thyme,
Grows around the bloom’ heather.
Will ya go lassie go?
Chorus:
And we’ll all go together
To pluck wild mountain thyme
All around the bloomin’ heather.
Will ya go lassie go?"
http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:qjiUwHh4MWEJ:www.3pintsgone.com/lyrics/ThereCanBeOnlyOne/WildMountainThyme.doc+Wild+Mountain+Thyme+Francis+McPeake&hl=en&gl=uk&ct=clnk&cd=3
Whereas, to musical members of the Protestant &/or Loyalist community this is more commonly thought of as being a Scottish song:
"Eric Winter writes in the liner notes of the 1995 re-release of The Corries:
In Concert/Scottish Love Songs: ... this is an elegant variant of a Scottish song by Robert Tannahill (1774-1819), "The Braes of Balquidder."
The senior member of the McPeake family of Belfast, Francis I, wrote this version (the tune is markedly different from Tannahill's) and dedicated it to his first wife.
Long after she died, he married again and his son, Francis II, wrote an extra verse to celebrate the marriage."
'Will Ye Go Lassie Go'
"The lyrics are by Scottish poet Robert Tannahill (1774-1810) of Paisley.
The poem is called ‘The Braes of Balquidder’, spelled variously ‘The Braes of Balquheder’ or ‘Braes o' Balquhidder’ (pronounced 'Balwhither') which was printed as early as 1742.
Tannahill's version first appeared in a collection of songs in Pocket Encyclopedia of Scotch, English, and Irish Songs, II 1818. The song had circulated prior to that in magazines."
“Oh the summertime is coming
And the trees are sweetly blooming
And the wild mountain thyme
Grows around the blooming heather
Will ye go, Lassie go?
Chorus
And we'll all go together
To pluck wild mountain thyme
All around the blooming heather
Will ye go, Lassie go?”
http://www.contemplator.com/scotland/lassiego.html
So, we have a song whose lyrics are by a Scotsman but whose current popular melody was written by an Irishman – could this be the one?
It is interesting that one & all seem to be able to relate to this song as ‘theirs’.
So this, or something like it, might just work for everyone?
Or, of course, on the other hand, we could just pick one of the many superb hits from the Eurovision Song Contest!
# Posted on September 7th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
What English monarchy? We haven't had one of those since 1603 when James Stuart, the Scottish king, came down to the comfortable south and rolled England and Scotland up into one. And weren't the previous lot Welsh anyway?
But seriously I, too, have heard Danny Boy used as Northern Ireland's anthem for international events.
# Posted on September 7th 2006 by Paul_draper
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
"The senior member of the McPeake family of Belfast, Francis I, wrote this version ".
There has always been doubt about this song being written by the McPeakes.The granddaughter of Francis Joseph Biggar informed me that the First Francis McPeake learned this song from a traveller in Biggar`s home about 100 years ago.Its a traditional air ,on both sides of the sea of Moyle,so if Harry B.doesn`t object lets just call it an Ulster Scots Traditional song-ideal for the Norn Ireland football team!!!
# Posted on September 7th 2006 by cos
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
It occurs to me that the most sensible thing to do would be to choose a piece from outside 'tradition' in any sense.
That way there would be no room for stancing, strutting or spurious claims of a national identity.
But we can't avoid our backward little inclinations to p*ss-mark our claims to territory out using what we hold so dear, can we?
Regards,
Harry.
# Posted on September 7th 2006 by Harry B
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
Harry, I simply thought that to go with a simple love song, & one which is actually already acceptable to everyone up here, might have made some sense & perhaps saved us from ending up with yet another triumphalist march, like so many other anthems.
So many folks in Scotland for example, seem to favour 'Flower of Scotland' or 'Scotland the Brave' neither of which escape the dreaded politics, whereas I think a Scottish love song like Dougie's 'Caledonia', would be a far better choice.
I say, let's here more 'love songs' at these events. It is after all, just possible to think fondly of your own country, without getting caught up in the politics trap!
# Posted on September 7th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
here ..... hear ....
# Posted on September 7th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
Yes, a simple "Ulster- Scots traditional song" as you put it. No baggage or anything there, no racial implications, great. Good thinking.
What about Geordie Hanna's harmless traditional ode of love of one's place "Paddy's Green Shamrock Shore"... that would go down a 'bomb' in certain circles.
Regards,
Harry.
# Posted on September 7th 2006 by Harry B
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
you are so right ,Harry,Its the most natural thing in the world!
We all hold onto what we perceive as our culture no-matter who slags it off-which makes us even more withdrawn and protective.
# Posted on September 7th 2006 by cos
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
Duh Harry, now are you just being plain silly, or deliberately provocative.
Obviously Geordies song, beautiful though it is, would hardly be regarded as suitable or appropriate to all.
For a start it uses words like Paddy, Derry town, Ireland, etc which would hardly endear it to 50% of the locals.
The point I was making with the ‘Wild Mountain Thyme’ was that it only makes mention of things like mountains, streams, heather, etc., all of which are in abundance in Ulster as well as in Scotland & Ireland, so it can in fact be thought of fondly without their automatically being a single political or geographical boundary to it.
But then I didn’t really need to explain that, did I?
I’m sure it was obvious to most folk here.
# Posted on September 7th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
The song is obviously of Scottish origin and is unnaimously considered to be Scottish trad arr., the McPeak's claim of authorship is as notorious as it is incorrect.
While we are talking of context (the terrible evils of 'Paddy', 'Derry' etc.); in the context of the North of Ireland, a Scottish traditional song as a representitive seems a bit silly, and irrellevant doesn't it?
But, times being as they are, its probably perfectly reasonable. Such is the power of not getting our own jokes.
Regards,
Harry.
# Posted on September 7th 2006 by Harry B
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
From my experience (here in the US), Wild Mountain Thyme is the most popular song that frequently appears at both Irish-oriented and Scottish-oriented events--everyone seems to know the chorus. So, while it may not be suitable as an anthem, it seems to be an example of how a good song knows no political boundaries.
# Posted on September 7th 2006 by AlBrown
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
Indeed Al,
Its probably from a time before political boundries, when people weren't overly concerned with the ownership of such things.
Its considered to be a version of the Scots song: "The Braes of Balquhidder".
Regards,
Harry.
# Posted on September 7th 2006 by Harry B
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
From: http://www.chivalry.com/cantaria/lyrics/braesbal.html
The Braes O' Balquhidder
Robert Tannahill (1744-1810) Biography of Robert Tannahill
Two verses and choruses: MP3 (838K)
The Braes of Balquidder is sung by 3 Pints Gone
on their CD The Beaches of St. Valery.
Please refer to Cantaria's Copyright information
Notes: there is very probable that this song was the original form of "Wild Mountain Thyme." It's a very lovely song, performed by the Tannahill Weavers on capernaum. According to the capernaum liner notes, "The Braes o' Balquihidder" appeared twice in R.A. Smith's Scottish Minstrel (1821-1824) - Vol I, p. 49 and Vol. IV, p. 89. The latter air is a modification of the first and is called "The Three Carles o' Buchanan."
Irish traditional singer Elizabeth Cronin sang this song, too, but the tune was quite different. In The Songs of Elizabeth Cronin, the notes say "the song was composed by the Scottish poet Robert Tannahill and set to music by R.A. Smith." This might be the first version of Smith's tune.
Balquihidder is pronounced bal'-whither.
The village of Balquidder lies in central Scotland and is mainly known for being the burial place of Rob Roy. To this day the entire village consists of a cemetery and church ruins, a community center, a B&B, a shop or two and some absolutely breath-taking scenery.
Let us go, lassie, to,
Tae the braes o' Balquhidder,
Whar the blueberries grow
'Mang the bonnie Hielan heather
Whar the deer and the rae
Lichtly bounding thegither,
Sport the lang summer day
On the braes o' Balquhidder.
I will twin thee a bow'r
By the clear silver fountain,
And I'll cover it o'er
Wi' the flooers o' the mountain
I will range through the wilds
And the deep glens sae dreary,
And return wi' their spoils
Tae the bow'r o' my dearie.
Whe the rude wintry win'
Idly waves roun' oor dwellin'
And the roar o' the linn
On the night breeze is swellin'
So merrily we'll sing
As the storm rattles o'er us
Till the dear sheilin' ring
Wi' the light liltin chorus.
Noo the summers in prime
Wi' the flooers richly bloomin'
Wi' the wild mountain thyme
A' the moorlan's perfumin'
Tae oor dear native scenes
Let us journey thegither,
Whar glad innocence reigns,
Mang the braes o' Balquhidder.
Glossary:
brae - hill
twin - plait (braid/weave)
rae - roe deer
linn - waterfall
flooer - flower
hielan' - highland
lichtly - lightly
lang - long
mang - among
nicht - night
sheilin - cottage
Regards,
Harry.
# Posted on September 7th 2006 by Harry B
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
OK Harry, so if that song is not going to work for you, which will?
Murfbox was asking for suggestions & I know you have already recommended that we should - "choose a piece from outside 'tradition' in any sense.", but I wonder, do you yourself have any specific suggestions or recommendations in mind that we may consider, for 'outside tradition' is just a little vague I think & doesn't really take us too far in this quest for an ideal song.
# Posted on September 7th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
'Outside tradition' means just that. A new composition that doesn't reference any potentially divisive areas.
I don't know, get a composer to write one, that's what they do. I wouldn't really care if it was 'The Birdie Song' once it didn't play up to any narrow little cultural or political idea of what it means to be from the North.
Anthems don't mean much to me if they're harmless, in the same way as nationalism doesn't concern me much if it's not at the expense of others.
Regards,
Harry.
# Posted on September 7th 2006 by Harry B
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
Or Maybe this...
Timble's Pimple
My name is David Trimble I'm nifty, neat and nimble
On my backside I've a pimple that festers in July
I can scratch it, I can squeeze it with ointment I can grease it
But the only way to ease it is to go marching with the boys
V) It's just a little orange pimple, so soft and cute and simple
Harmless as a dimple, until the marching season comes
It swells with inflammation causing irritation
How can I sit in negotiations with a pimple on my bum.
I met my loyal Bretheren, a most unhappy gathering
In the sunshine they were sweltering in the churchyard of Drumcree
To march to Ballyoran with drums and banners blowing
They had been stopped from going by the loyal R.U.C
V) And my little Orange pimple grew as hard as any thimble
It was ringing like a cymbal and throbbing like a drum
It swelled with inflammation causing irritation
How could I sit in negotiations with a pimple on me bum
Say I to Sir Hugh Ainsley, 'No matter what your plans may be
And whatever Rupublicans may say this march must be allowed'
Says he 'Don't mind their blether, sit back and enjoy the weather
And we'll all march down together when we get a better crowd'
V) And my little Orange pimple grew as hard as any thimble
It was ringing like a cymbal and throbbing like a drum
It swelled with inflammation causing irritation
How could I sit in negotiations with a pimple on me bum
The people of Garvaghey, you couldn't keep them happy
There were some of them shouting 'Tiocfaidh' though they never say a hen
With the R.U.C before us, their batons waving o'er us
We all sang in a chorus, 'happy days are here again'
V) And my little Orange pimple grew as hard as any thimble
It was ringing like a cymbal and throbbing like a drum
It swelled with inflammation causing irritation
How could I sit in negotiations with a pimple on me bum
Here's a health to Paddy Mayhew, Hugh Ainsley and his gay crew
They showed us what we may do whenever we feel inclined
With them to fight our battles, we'll let our drumbeats rattle
And give each a Drumcree medal with the spelling right this time
V) And my little Orange pimple grew as hard as any thimble
It was ringing like a cymbal and throbbing like a drum
It swelled with inflammation causing irritation
How could I sit in negotiations with a pimple on me bum
My name is David Trimble, I was nifty neat and nimble
My little Orange pimple has grown into a boil
Now I dare not squeeze or scratch it or in any way detach it
For I know I'm for the hatchet if I seem to be disloyal.
And my little Orange pimple, so soft and cute and simple
Harmless as a dimple, until the marching season comes
It swells with inflammation causing irritation
How can I sit in negotiations with a pimple on my bum?
# Posted on September 7th 2006 by Harry B
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
Taken from that hotbed of republican malcontent (manned by such dangerous extremists as 'Slasher' John Moulden and 'Tripswitch' Jerry O'Rielly) The Mudcat Cafe.
Written by Sean Mone, of Keady, Co. Armagh.
Scary boys.
Best,
Harry.
# Posted on September 7th 2006 by Harry B
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
The song a nation once again would cetainly ruffle a few feathers and raise a few pints as the anthem at the next football match. Might start a riot too so maybe not the best one to play.
# Posted on September 7th 2006 by newfie percussionist
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
Harry B - If The Corrs or Altan or some such outfit translated that one into Gaelic and sang it to a good backing, people all over the world (not having a clue what it all meant) would think "How romantic!", and buy it in droves.
# Posted on September 7th 2006 by nicholas
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
All your suggestions have been pre-empted since Neil Diamond's 'Sweet Caroline' has already been adopted by the Windsor Park crowd to celebrate the NI football team's rare victories. Still, the last David Healy goal was a cracker, no matter whom you support.
On a different note, it should be ex-RUC Chief Constable 'Hugh Annesley' in the Trimble/pimple song and, on an even more different note, it really is time that people stopped referring to the Six Counties/Northern Ireland/The North as having only two communities. This ignores increasing multi-ethnicity, migrant workers from various parts of Europe and the fact that many people in the SC choose not to identify themselves with either Republicanism or Loyalism, Nationalism or Unionism or with any religious practice whatsoever.
# Posted on September 7th 2006 by Floss the Tethers
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
Hey, I thought singing 'Sweet Caroline' at games was a Boston Red Sox thing, but then I heard the crowd singing it at a Washington Nationals game, and now I read that it has gone overseas. When I first heard that song, it never never never occurred to me that it would become popular to sing at sporting events!
# Posted on September 7th 2006 by AlBrown
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
Sweet Caroline eh - sounds good to me. So they didn't need our advice after all!
Lyrics
by Neil Diamond
"Where it began, I can't begin to know when
But then I know it's growing strong
Oh, wasn't the spring, whooo
And spring became the summer
Who'd believe you'd come along
Hands, touching hands, reaching out
Touching me, touching you
Oh, sweet Caroline
Good times never seem so good
I've been inclined to believe it never would
And now I, I look at the night, whooo
And it don't seem so lonely
We fill it up with only two, oh
And when I hurt
Hurting runs off my shoulder
How can I hurt when holding you
Oh, one, touching one, reaching out
Touching me, touching you
Oh, sweet Caroline
Good times never seem so good
Oh I've been inclined to believe it never would
Ohhh, sweet Caroline, good times never seem so good"
I don't see anything in those lyrics to cause upset or for anyone to get their knickers in a twist over.
Mind you, what lyrics will the lads on the terraces be singing, before long - I mean they're bound to adopt their own colourful lyrics, arent they?
If you are wondering what does make a good football song, this page might help:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A543755
# Posted on September 7th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
Geoff,
I take great offence at your slur on 'The Provence' re. not promoting multiculturalism.
We extend a warm welcome to all Scots creeds, and have an excellent record on accomodating our long standing brethern The Lesser Lowland Makey-Upey Scot.
Shame on you, Honky.
Harry.
# Posted on September 7th 2006 by Harry B
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
Geoff`s remarks on new ethnic minorities in the 6 of 9 make me wonder what will happen if and when the thousands of Portuguese migrant workers in the Lurgan /Craigavon area ,for example,start buying up every fiddle,flute and chanter in sight
and take to music making with the Armagh Piper`s club.
In years to come Will their decendants be scorned if they eventually claim a unique Ulster /porto identity?Or shall their efforts be embraced and encouraged by the indigenous population?And they reckon Bulgarians and Roumanians will soon be here in their droves.
# Posted on September 7th 2006 by cos
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
Murfbox, we are in agreement, the City was originally Derry, the other name was invented by the East London Company or whatever, English Capitalists, calling it after their own company. The County dates much later, as all of the Counties were created by England, to whom we are eternally grateful, otherwise there would be no All Ireland football and hurling.
New Percussionist, "A Nation once again" is divisive among Republicans/Nationalists as it is, never mind Loyalists.
And does anyone actually object to "Danny Boy", we simply have an air, forget the words.
The Republic of Ireland would also benefit from having one of the many outstanding airs, without words, as an anthem instead of the current, militaristic nonsense.
# Posted on September 7th 2006 by bodhran bliss
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
To go back to "The Wild Mountain Thyme", my copy of it, written in the key of A ( impossible to sing ), has it collected by Sir Hubert Parry, from Francis McPeake, in 1895.
So it's copyright McPeake, which makes a change from the collector holding the copyright.
My band does a rather nice set of variations on it, impossible to transcribe.
As for an anthem, I refer the members to my previous answer.
Could we just argue about Tony Blair instead, it might be simpler ( NOT ! ).
# Posted on September 8th 2006 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
Our own (USA) anthem commemorates the survival of a nationalist symbol following a battle during a war. Surely Northern Ireland could use our example by finding a song about a suitable battle with a suitable nationalistic symbol that survived.
# Posted on September 8th 2006 by John Culhane
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
Isn't there a much more obvious solution here?
Neither the Free State nor Norn Iron football teams are worth a sh**e.
The fact that once in a very blue moon they get a team that's not on form and score a few goals isn't exactly to be celebrated. If we had one true Ireland team then we might be in with a better chance of actually getting somewhere in international cometition - then we can sing whatever the feck we wanted!
After the previous week's defeat at the hands of Iceland it was being said that they were going on to play Tesco and Sainsburys the next two fixtures and Paddy Power were giving odds on the latter winning double!!
# Posted on September 8th 2006 by breandan
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
Breandan, you say, "defeat at the hands of Iceland" & go on to mention Tesco & Sainsburys, so are you talking about the country Iceland ................................... or the frozen food chain?
You also said - "Neither the Free State nor Norn Iron football teams are worth a sh**e."
So can you explain how it is that there is an 'All Ireland' team for that quintessential of English games - Rugby, & yet separate teams for the British sport of Soccer?
“The origin of Rugby football is largely credited to a young man named William Webb Ellis who "took the ball in his arms [i.e. caught the ball] and ran" while playing Association football at Rugby school in 1823.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugby_union
& yet:
“Britain is the undisputed birthplace of modern soccer/association football.
Scotland and England being co-founders of the organised game.
Football - as soccer is called in Britain - was a popular sport of the masses from the 8th century onwards.
But the game at that time was a war game!
There is a story which places the first football game in the east of England - where the locals played 'football' with the severed head of a Danish Prince they had defeated in battle!”
http://worldsoccer.about.com/cs/historyandstats/a/sochistart.htm
I'm sure your right, & there would of course be a far greater chance of success with an All Ireland Football team - so any idea why that has never come about?
# Posted on September 8th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
The (All) Ireland Rugby team could probably come up with a good rousing song that slags off all sides without fear or favour, and is therefore impartial. Rugby players after all can have a way with words, and like a song or two(!) - in contrast to a lot of soccer players.
# Posted on September 8th 2006 by nicholas
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
where's northern ireland ?, never heard of it and i'm a belfast man. ; - ).
always liked the scotish anthem,when i've went to see scot harrison fights ,hairs up on the back of the neck stuff. for an irish boxer coming into the ring, it would have to be " follow me up to carlow" for me.
# Posted on September 8th 2006 by molloy
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
Dick - absolutely right. I should have referred to it as soccer [sacair in Irish].
The only ball game worth talking about being hurling [iomaníocht] with gaelic football being the next best thing.
The reason why there is no all ireland soccer team is very simple - the Northern Ireland soccer boys would have nothing to do with the fenians down south. Witness also the lack of coverage for the recent win over Spain in the [now defunct] Daily Ireland and Irish News. The reality is that the vast majority of Norn Irn fans come from the loyalist tradition. This may be changing but we only need look back a couple of years at the loyalist death threats against Neil Lennon of Celtic when he turned out for them In the end he had to quit.
We can also reflect on the sad demise of Belfast Celtivcdue to sectarianism and the choice of the Derry City candy stripes to play in the ROI leagues rather than subject themselves to the sectarianism of the likes of Linfield supporters.
Singing Danny Boy or the likes is very unlikey to win them over. The only possibility [and my hope] is that they get even fewer of such wins, get thrashed on a regular basis and finally realise that an all island team would be much better than the current 72nd place in the world rankings!
The we could maybe compose a song entitled Land of our Mothers, Flower of Ireland, or some such drivel
As for the Rugby boys - they never cared what the anthem was because they were well enough off in middle and upper class suburbia to be above all that nonsense when it came to having a good time, beating the bejasus out of yer mates in the scrum, and drinking yersel sill to the wee small hours with the rest of the solicitors, doctors, publicans etc.
# Posted on September 8th 2006 by breandan
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
...Not to mention handling their odd shaped balls.
H.
# Posted on September 8th 2006 by Harry B
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
The Welsh get by with singing something about a little saucepan
# Posted on September 8th 2006 by nicholas
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
That's settled then, the new anthem will be "Mickey Marley's Roundabout".
If they had a poll among the pub going music lovers in Belfast "Ten Guitars" would win by a mile.
# Posted on September 9th 2006 by bodhran bliss
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
###The reason why there is no all ireland soccer team is very simple - the Northern Ireland soccer boys would have nothing to do with the fenians down south.####
Just a technical note here, but it was actually the FAI who seceeded from the IFA, a couple of years after independence.
For the next 30 odd years both Assocations claimed to be the true "Irish" football (soccer) Assoc and both fielded international teams named "Ireland". There was no "Northern Ire" and no '"Rep of Ire". In fact they often fielded some of the same players. There is the famous incidence of Jackie Carey (the greatest Irish player to ever play for Man Utd) captaining the IFA's version of Ireland on a Sat in an international and leading out the FAI's version the folowing Wed.
It was FIFA who stepped in a dictated that each Assoc had to represent it's own jurisdiction and henceforth the IFA's team was to be known as Northern Ireland and the FAI's the Republic.
Had FIFA decided to favour one Assoc over the other we would have a united Irish team today, either HQ'd in Belfast or Dublin depending on who FIFA would have picked.
So it's actually all FIFA's fault.
The International Olympic Commitee recognises only one Ireland.
# Posted on September 12th 2006 by Killone
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
Btw, it was in the early 50's when FIFA straightened out the "Two Irelands" mess.
# Posted on September 12th 2006 by Killone
Re: Anthem for Northern Ireland
I don't know about anyone else here , but Northern Ireland has many great anthems. It just depends where you are and who your with when you sing them. I have no problem with The Sash, The Fields of Athenrye, Danny Boy or even The Auld Orange Flute.
Let's face it, most english people don't sing their national anthem really, yet they have loads of great songs, so why do we have to have just one from N.I.?
Someone tried to goad me into the Derry/Londonderry debate before and I maintain what I said them, Who Really Cares?
# Posted on January 30th 2008 by Accordionstu