Already, bands and artistes will boast that they have competition winners, seven times All Ireland champions, graduates of Limerick, RSAMD Glasgow, Newcastle and so on in their number when promoting or looking for gigs.
So, do we only book people for gigs or go to watch them if they are qualified? Are bands just going to recruit players with "A" levels from now on?
What's wrong with just playing for the love of the music? If young musicians do actually love the music enough and are ambitious enough, they will achieve their own high standards.
Wishy washy neo liberalism!! Giving everyone an attainment sticker just reduces the whole concept of competition to a banal state of common mediocrity. I recommend a book 'Punished by Rewards', more based on the education system and the growing habit of handing out certs and stickers for this, that and t'other.
I'd go with John J. Just ban music competitions full stop: play for the love of it, have music festivals by all means but competition?
Fearghal, Your idea is not entirely new as, for a period in the 1970`s, Comhaltas graded competitors in their competitions ,so instead of having a first ,second and third etc. they just graded people and picked one overall winner. If I remember correctly the gradings were Master Traditionalist,Senior Traditionalist and Junior Traditionalist.This was abandoned after about 3 years for a variety of reasons.To be fair Feargal, the people who enter the competitions seem to love them and they are usually very well attended.Its a part of the tradition now as comhaltas have run competitions since its inception in the 50`sand before that there were feis and Oireachtas instrumental competitions.I will never forget the look on a certain semi-pro Irish -American fiddler`s face when the adjudicator told him he was a `junior traditionalist` at nearly 30 years of age! He also told him that professional musicians shouldn`t be entering amateur competitions.
I should add that I was being slightly tongue in cheek with comment above. The older I get, the less certain I am about anything!! Horses for courses and all that.
But we did spend some time going along to a local Comhaltas branch for lessons. They were great in many ways: given by local amateur musicians & cheap. But the emphasis was mostly on preparing for the Fleadhs: each week it was 'play your jig and your reel', next week same again, next week same again ....
Fine in it's way but a very narrow way of promoting a love of the music.
Don't ban the competitions, just don't participate them if you don' t like them. Everyone can do what they want, but you don't need to support something you don't like.
The only problem with that approach is that there is a valuable social structure, especially in dance, that has built up around the competitions. If competitions ever went away, and no other form of gathering developed that allowed people to mix with others who loved the same art form, something would be lost.
Valuable social structure?? In Irish dancing! Hmm, I don't know about your part of the world, Al but here in Ireland the competition and hullabaloo surrounding dancing Feiseanna is more about appearances and 'keeping up with the Joneses', a kind of inverse snobbery like sending your child to a Gaelscoil in certain areas. We deliberately steered our daughters away from the scene - have you seen the get up? Dresses worth thousand of Euro, fake tans, wigs full of golden curls.... you can keep that sort of 'social structure' !!!!
There is already a great system in place for musicians to progress and get due recognition for their efforts by means of the Comhaltas SCT traditional music exams (see http://www.comhaltas.com/education/exams.htm). These encourage musicians to improve their performance as they work their way through the 12 grades from elementary to senior level while picking up knowledge on all things traditional along the way. The big advantage is that unlike competitions, all participants (well almost all) are winners and are presented with a certificate to prove it.
The only downside with the examinations is that the social side is missing as they do not result in large gatherings of musicians in a festive atmosphere - long live the Fleadh!!
wounded hussar,
Concur with many of your observations. The competitions leave a lot to be desired. There are those around here that say the only difference between a dance mother and a pit bull is the lipstick on the dance mother. But underneath the gaudy costumes, wigs and other cr*P, there are kids learning to dance, and hopefully, at least some are learning to love dancing. Over here in the US, the competitions are one of the major venues that spreads Irish culture. I agree that they are not the optimal type of gathering to promote the culture, but they do serve a valuable purpose in that respect.
Replace competitions with an attainment award
Replace competitions with an attainment award
In light of spurious and subjective decisions in competition, could the All-Ireland Fleadh work as well with an attainment award for participants?
And, should adults be barred from such events?
# Posted on August 30th 2006 by Feargal French
Re: Replace competitions with an attainment award
adults should bar themeselves
# Posted on August 30th 2006 by llig leahcim
Re: Replace competitions with an attainment award
"And, should adults be barred from such events?" - what do you mean Feargal, from competing or spectating?
Aye, & bar all the feckin' drunken wonkers while your at it?
# Posted on August 31st 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: Replace competitions with an attainment award
My suggestion is that adults be barred from participating, not spectating.
Competition would cease and all participants would be awarded an attainment, such as A levels are currently awarded.
This way there would be no losers, only kids who can be encouraged to achieve higher standards.
# Posted on August 31st 2006 by Feargal French
Re: Replace competitions with an attainment award
GREAT idea!
# Posted on August 31st 2006 by eirfiddle
Re: Replace competitions with an attainment award
Already, bands and artistes will boast that they have competition winners, seven times All Ireland champions, graduates of Limerick, RSAMD Glasgow, Newcastle and so on in their number when promoting or looking for gigs.
So, do we only book people for gigs or go to watch them if they are qualified? Are bands just going to recruit players with "A" levels from now on?
What's wrong with just playing for the love of the music? If young musicians do actually love the music enough and are ambitious enough, they will achieve their own high standards.
# Posted on August 31st 2006 by Johannes J
Re: Replace competitions with an attainment award
Wishy washy neo liberalism!! Giving everyone an attainment sticker just reduces the whole concept of competition to a banal state of common mediocrity. I recommend a book 'Punished by Rewards', more based on the education system and the growing habit of handing out certs and stickers for this, that and t'other.
I'd go with John J. Just ban music competitions full stop: play for the love of it, have music festivals by all means but competition?
# Posted on August 31st 2006 by the wounded hussar
Re: Replace competitions with an attainment award
I agree that competitions should be banned. My other suggestion is to replace the Fleadh with an alternative excuse for a gathering of musicians.
# Posted on August 31st 2006 by Feargal French
Re: Replace competitions with an attainment award
Fearghal, Your idea is not entirely new as, for a period in the 1970`s, Comhaltas graded competitors in their competitions ,so instead of having a first ,second and third etc. they just graded people and picked one overall winner. If I remember correctly the gradings were Master Traditionalist,Senior Traditionalist and Junior Traditionalist.This was abandoned after about 3 years for a variety of reasons.To be fair Feargal, the people who enter the competitions seem to love them and they are usually very well attended.Its a part of the tradition now as comhaltas have run competitions since its inception in the 50`sand before that there were feis and Oireachtas instrumental competitions.I will never forget the look on a certain semi-pro Irish -American fiddler`s face when the adjudicator told him he was a `junior traditionalist` at nearly 30 years of age! He also told him that professional musicians shouldn`t be entering amateur competitions.
# Posted on August 31st 2006 by cos
Re: Replace competitions with an attainment award
I should add that I was being slightly tongue in cheek with comment above. The older I get, the less certain I am about anything!! Horses for courses and all that.
But we did spend some time going along to a local Comhaltas branch for lessons. They were great in many ways: given by local amateur musicians & cheap. But the emphasis was mostly on preparing for the Fleadhs: each week it was 'play your jig and your reel', next week same again, next week same again ....
Fine in it's way but a very narrow way of promoting a love of the music.
# Posted on August 31st 2006 by the wounded hussar
Re: Replace competitions with an attainment award
Don't ban the competitions, just don't participate them if you don' t like them. Everyone can do what they want, but you don't need to support something you don't like.
The only problem with that approach is that there is a valuable social structure, especially in dance, that has built up around the competitions. If competitions ever went away, and no other form of gathering developed that allowed people to mix with others who loved the same art form, something would be lost.
# Posted on August 31st 2006 by AlBrown
Re: Replace competitions with an attainment award
Valuable social structure?? In Irish dancing! Hmm, I don't know about your part of the world, Al but here in Ireland the competition and hullabaloo surrounding dancing Feiseanna is more about appearances and 'keeping up with the Joneses', a kind of inverse snobbery like sending your child to a Gaelscoil in certain areas. We deliberately steered our daughters away from the scene - have you seen the get up? Dresses worth thousand of Euro, fake tans, wigs full of golden curls.... you can keep that sort of 'social structure' !!!!
# Posted on August 31st 2006 by the wounded hussar
Re: Replace competitions with an attainment award
There is already a great system in place for musicians to progress and get due recognition for their efforts by means of the Comhaltas SCT traditional music exams (see http://www.comhaltas.com/education/exams.htm). These encourage musicians to improve their performance as they work their way through the 12 grades from elementary to senior level while picking up knowledge on all things traditional along the way. The big advantage is that unlike competitions, all participants (well almost all) are winners and are presented with a certificate to prove it.
The only downside with the examinations is that the social side is missing as they do not result in large gatherings of musicians in a festive atmosphere - long live the Fleadh!!
# Posted on August 31st 2006 by Bannerman
Re: Replace competitions with an attainment award
wounded hussar,
Concur with many of your observations. The competitions leave a lot to be desired. There are those around here that say the only difference between a dance mother and a pit bull is the lipstick on the dance mother. But underneath the gaudy costumes, wigs and other cr*P, there are kids learning to dance, and hopefully, at least some are learning to love dancing. Over here in the US, the competitions are one of the major venues that spreads Irish culture. I agree that they are not the optimal type of gathering to promote the culture, but they do serve a valuable purpose in that respect.
# Posted on August 31st 2006 by AlBrown
Re: Replace competitions with an attainment award
Ah yes Al, I know what you mean. Sometimes you have to take the good with the bad to get anywhere.
# Posted on August 31st 2006 by the wounded hussar