The Session >> Discussions >> Setting your own soundpost (Instruments as Luggage Thread)
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Setting your own soundpost (Instruments as Luggage Thread)
Setting your own soundpost (Instruments as Luggage Thread)
Following on the flying with instruments problem, desperate enough, I might gamble on checking in my second fiddle (insured and in a good case) if I could keep it playable while traveling and as long as I have my darling (fiddle) to come home to. However, dropping a fiddle in a decent suspension case a foot or two can drop a soundpost under ordinary circumstance - especially if it loosens when traveling between different climates/humidity zones.
Fiddlers: assuming you can't always find a trustworthy luthier when you need one and you aren't yourself a luthier, can/have you reset your own soundpost playably well without damaging your fiddle? Was it hard to learn? How did you learn? From a luthier, book, website? I have a sound post setter gizmo and just imagining using it gives me the shivers.
Re: Setting your own soundpost (Instruments as Luggage Thread)
Hi ratbi'
I've messed around with sound posts, its not that bad.
Kind of fun , as long as your not in a hurry.
Just make sure you have it so the angles match for the slope of the top & back & go easy.
Go easy & just snug her in there, then move it the way you want to go in little steps top & bottom so it dont fall over.
I've made fiddles sound better by doing it, some worse, but usually have found a sweet spot..& have never cracked any tops or backs
hope it s not needed though
cheers
RogB
Re: Setting your own soundpost (Instruments as Luggage Thread)
My lovely fiddle, which cost £25 at the boot sale years ago, will never drop its soundpost. It's stuck in place with the same glue (araldite) that I patched up the crack in the back with.
And it still sounds great!
Re: Setting your own soundpost (Instruments as Luggage Thread)
Well I've got a soundpost setter and it's a curved bit of steel with a viciously pointed blued steel end - just the thing to sneak into your hand luggage (insert smiley!) My soundpost only fell over once and it was my stupid fault - I was fitting a tailpiece with integral tuners, and before I tightened the strings up I noticed the end button was not fully in, so I gave it a sharp tap - and the soundpost fell down. You should have heard me curse. It was tricky putting it back, but I did it in the end with a bit of bent coat hanger. Then I got the setter later and used it to move the post by gentle tapping into a better position.
Re: Setting your own soundpost (Instruments as Luggage Thread)
A timely topic. I’m making a new nut for my fiddle and, of course, the soundpost fell down after I loosened the strings and accidentally gave it a little bump. I normally like working on my instruments, but setting a soundpost frustrates the soup out of me. But this time I have vowed to not let it get to me. I’ll just put on some good music, quaff a thimble of liquid courage and go at it. If it takes three hours, then at least I’ve heard three hours of good music. If it takes six hours, then I’ll know I’m a bumbling idiot who should leave this job to a professional.
The soundpost grain is supposed to be perpendicular to the grain of the soundboard. Does everybody follow that rule? I find it pretty hard to twist the #@%# thing once it’s in place.
Re: Setting your own soundpost (Instruments as Luggage Thread)
Thanks guys .... I think the way my favorite luthier gets sound with a wee tap here or there has me overly intimidated.
I'll leave my darling fiddle to him and sharpen my soundpost setter, make sure my insurance is up to day, and fearlessly check the B fiddle into baggage if needs be. I just hate to be away from home for more than a couple or three days without a fiddle.
Re: Setting your own soundpost (Instruments as Luggage Thread)
Emergency resetting a fallen soundpost that's already been fitted to a fiddle by an expert shouldn't be as difficult as preparing and inserting a new one.
A few comments to prepare you for the job should you need to do it in an emergency (assuming you have a soundpost setting tool or something similar to hand):
1) With the soundpost in situ (i.e. before it's fallen down) use a fine pencil or marker to make a couple of light marks on the inside of the back of the fiddle where the soundpost is, so that if the worse comes to the worse you can see exactly where the soundpost was located before it fell down.
2) You should be able to tell the orientation of the soundpost grain (see Bob's post) by looking for the indentation in the soundpost whether the luthier stuck the setting tool. Make a note of the position of this indentation so that you can use it to replicate the original orientation of the soundpost. If you can't see that indentation for whatever reason, make a reference mark on the side of the in situ soundpost with a pencil or marker. In fact, I'd recommend making a mark so that you can tell which is the bottom and the top of the fallen sound post; this could be important if the ends have been shaped slightly differently to match the different curvatures of back and belly.
4) If you have done this you should be able to relocate the fallen soundpost pretty close to or even exactly where it was, and all you have to worry about is making sure the thing is vertical within the instrument.
5) Make sure the strings are slackened off and the bridge is down when fitting the soundpost, otherwise it will mysteriously seem too tight to fit. Anyway, you should always slacken off the strings if the soundpost gets dislodged.
6) If you're lucky enough to find a local luthier to do the job for you, I think the preparatory markings you have made would ease his job for him.
Oh, and take it real steady and don't try to hurry.
Re: Setting your own soundpost (Instruments as Luggage Thread)
I've seen and heard wurzel's fiddle, and I've seen and heard far worse in sessions - i.e. he's got away with it this time ! But using araldite or similar is definitely not to be recommended for repairing fiddles or fretted instruments (use the animal glue that luthiers use), although I understand it's ok for wooden flutes.
Re: Setting your own soundpost (Instruments as Luggage Thread)
Duffgen, yes, you're quite right; glue or adhesive of any description musn't be used for fixing the soundpost. What I meant was only the proper animal glue should be used for repairing damage and assembling the components of the fiddle - excluding soundpost, bridge, button and pegs (which are all moveable parts).
Re: Setting your own soundpost (Instruments as Luggage Thread)
I wonder if a little door set discretely in the side rib of the fiddle, at its waist, would be ideal for accessing the soundpost. Listen to all those luthiers having conniptions at the very thought
Re: Setting your own soundpost (Instruments as Luggage Thread)
A while ago someone said their school caretaker solved the soundpost problem with tin tacks through the backs of the fiddles - hilarious (sorry can't find the original posting to give credit)
Re: Setting your own soundpost (Instruments as Luggage Thread)
You'd have to give that legendary (or would it be mythical?) caretaker credit for having the incredible skill and craftsmanship to be able to press a tin tack through the back of a fiddle (the back being a fairly tough wood) at EXACTLY the right spot to pierce the end of the soundpost, and presumably without splitting the soundpost or fiddle back in doing so.
Anyone who isn't a trained luthier like to pick up a fiddle and identify that precise spot just by looking? I don't think I can.
Re: Setting your own soundpost (Instruments as Luggage Thread)
PS the animal glue thing - the reason you use those glues is that they're water-soluble. That means it's possible to put the fiddle up on ramps and unglue stuff. Not so easy with araldite / superglue!
Re: Setting your own soundpost (Instruments as Luggage Thread)
I think I might've done it! After about half an hour, I've got the soundpost standing in what looks like the proper location. I noticed slight scuff marks and signs of struggle on the back, so I took that to be the spot where the post sat. I also have a soundpost measuring thingy from the StewMac catalog and I used it to help verify the location. Then, with a standard soundpost setting tool, I stabbed the post about three quarters of the way up on the side that should wind up facing me, inserted it through the F hole, planted the foot in the aforementioned spot, leaning away from me. Then I carefully pulled the top end toward me until it seemed to be ready to hold itself upright. It looks pretty close to vertical.
Of course, I could still knock the thing over while tweaking the position, but now I have a much better feel for how the operation goes. If I'm understanding this right, it's very important to slope the top and bottom of the post to match the slope of the fiddle's top and bottom. Not only does it make a better fit when you're done, but it also helps in pulling the post upright. If you've got the bottom of the post in the right location and you're pulling the post toward you, when the top hits the right spot, it suddenly feels much tighter.
Re: Setting your own soundpost (Instruments as Luggage Thread)
Wow! It even sounds good, better than before the setup. I'd better quit while I'm ahead. I made a nut, modified and fitted a bridge, refined the fingerboard and reset the soundpost. At a luthier's standard setup rate, I figure I could make at least fifty cents an hour.
Setting your own soundpost (Instruments as Luggage Thread)
Setting your own soundpost (Instruments as Luggage Thread)
Following on the flying with instruments problem, desperate enough, I might gamble on checking in my second fiddle (insured and in a good case) if I could keep it playable while traveling and as long as I have my darling (fiddle) to come home to. However, dropping a fiddle in a decent suspension case a foot or two can drop a soundpost under ordinary circumstance - especially if it loosens when traveling between different climates/humidity zones.
Fiddlers: assuming you can't always find a trustworthy luthier when you need one and you aren't yourself a luthier, can/have you reset your own soundpost playably well without damaging your fiddle? Was it hard to learn? How did you learn? From a luthier, book, website? I have a sound post setter gizmo and just imagining using it gives me the shivers.
In a past post... http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/3766/comments#comment77049
someone noted that setting one is a task to bring tears to the eyes of grown men...
Am I mad to consider it since it's so easy to crack the top plate? or is it actually a skill that one should have anyway in your opinion?
# Posted on August 15th 2006 by ratbiscuit
Re: Setting your own soundpost (Instruments as Luggage Thread)
Hi ratbi'
I've messed around with sound posts, its not that bad.
Kind of fun , as long as your not in a hurry.
Just make sure you have it so the angles match for the slope of the top & back & go easy.
Go easy & just snug her in there, then move it the way you want to go in little steps top & bottom so it dont fall over.
I've made fiddles sound better by doing it, some worse, but usually have found a sweet spot..& have never cracked any tops or backs
hope it s not needed though
cheers
RogB
# Posted on August 15th 2006 by Roger B
Re: Setting your own soundpost (Instruments as Luggage Thread)
My lovely fiddle, which cost £25 at the boot sale years ago, will never drop its soundpost. It's stuck in place with the same glue (araldite) that I patched up the crack in the back with.
And it still sounds great!
# Posted on August 15th 2006 by Wurzel
Re: Setting your own soundpost (Instruments as Luggage Thread)
Well I've got a soundpost setter and it's a curved bit of steel with a viciously pointed blued steel end - just the thing to sneak into your hand luggage (insert smiley!) My soundpost only fell over once and it was my stupid fault - I was fitting a tailpiece with integral tuners, and before I tightened the strings up I noticed the end button was not fully in, so I gave it a sharp tap - and the soundpost fell down. You should have heard me curse. It was tricky putting it back, but I did it in the end with a bit of bent coat hanger. Then I got the setter later and used it to move the post by gentle tapping into a better position.
# Posted on August 15th 2006 by RichardB
Re: Setting your own soundpost (Instruments as Luggage Thread)
A timely topic. I’m making a new nut for my fiddle and, of course, the soundpost fell down after I loosened the strings and accidentally gave it a little bump. I normally like working on my instruments, but setting a soundpost frustrates the soup out of me. But this time I have vowed to not let it get to me. I’ll just put on some good music, quaff a thimble of liquid courage and go at it. If it takes three hours, then at least I’ve heard three hours of good music. If it takes six hours, then I’ll know I’m a bumbling idiot who should leave this job to a professional.
The soundpost grain is supposed to be perpendicular to the grain of the soundboard. Does everybody follow that rule? I find it pretty hard to twist the #@%# thing once it’s in place.
# Posted on August 15th 2006 by Bob himself
Re: Setting your own soundpost (Instruments as Luggage Thread)
Thanks guys .... I think the way my favorite luthier gets sound with a wee tap here or there has me overly intimidated.
I'll leave my darling fiddle to him and sharpen my soundpost setter, make sure my insurance is up to day, and fearlessly check the B fiddle into baggage if needs be. I just hate to be away from home for more than a couple or three days without a fiddle.
Jenny, aka the Ratbiscuit
# Posted on August 16th 2006 by ratbiscuit
Re: Setting your own soundpost (Instruments as Luggage Thread)
Emergency resetting a fallen soundpost that's already been fitted to a fiddle by an expert shouldn't be as difficult as preparing and inserting a new one.
A few comments to prepare you for the job should you need to do it in an emergency (assuming you have a soundpost setting tool or something similar to hand):
1) With the soundpost in situ (i.e. before it's fallen down) use a fine pencil or marker to make a couple of light marks on the inside of the back of the fiddle where the soundpost is, so that if the worse comes to the worse you can see exactly where the soundpost was located before it fell down.
2) You should be able to tell the orientation of the soundpost grain (see Bob's post) by looking for the indentation in the soundpost whether the luthier stuck the setting tool. Make a note of the position of this indentation so that you can use it to replicate the original orientation of the soundpost. If you can't see that indentation for whatever reason, make a reference mark on the side of the in situ soundpost with a pencil or marker. In fact, I'd recommend making a mark so that you can tell which is the bottom and the top of the fallen sound post; this could be important if the ends have been shaped slightly differently to match the different curvatures of back and belly.
4) If you have done this you should be able to relocate the fallen soundpost pretty close to or even exactly where it was, and all you have to worry about is making sure the thing is vertical within the instrument.
5) Make sure the strings are slackened off and the bridge is down when fitting the soundpost, otherwise it will mysteriously seem too tight to fit. Anyway, you should always slacken off the strings if the soundpost gets dislodged.
6) If you're lucky enough to find a local luthier to do the job for you, I think the preparatory markings you have made would ease his job for him.
Oh, and take it real steady and don't try to hurry.
# Posted on August 16th 2006 by lazyhound
Re: Setting your own soundpost (Instruments as Luggage Thread)
I've seen and heard wurzel's fiddle, and I've seen and heard far worse in sessions - i.e. he's got away with it this time
! But using araldite or similar is definitely not to be recommended for repairing fiddles or fretted instruments (use the animal glue that luthiers use), although I understand it's ok for wooden flutes.
# Posted on August 16th 2006 by lazyhound
Re: Setting your own soundpost (Instruments as Luggage Thread)
Better not to use glue of any description surely ? !
# Posted on August 16th 2006 by duffgen
Re: Setting your own soundpost (Instruments as Luggage Thread)
Duffgen, yes, you're quite right; glue or adhesive of any description musn't be used for fixing the soundpost. What I meant was only the proper animal glue should be used for repairing damage and assembling the components of the fiddle - excluding soundpost, bridge, button and pegs (which are all moveable parts).
# Posted on August 16th 2006 by lazyhound
Re: Setting your own soundpost (Instruments as Luggage Thread)
I wonder if a little door set discretely in the side rib of the fiddle, at its waist, would be ideal for accessing the soundpost. Listen to all those luthiers having conniptions at the very thought
# Posted on August 16th 2006 by lazyhound
Re: Setting your own soundpost (Instruments as Luggage Thread)
I've seen it done thro' the button hole. !
# Posted on August 16th 2006 by duffgen
Re: Setting your own soundpost (Instruments as Luggage Thread)
A while ago someone said their school caretaker solved the soundpost problem with tin tacks through the backs of the fiddles - hilarious (sorry can't find the original posting to give credit)
# Posted on August 16th 2006 by RichardB
Re: Setting your own soundpost (Instruments as Luggage Thread)
"... tin tacks through the backs of the fiddles ..."
Hmmm... That is perversely appealing...
# Posted on August 16th 2006 by Bob himself
Re: Setting your own soundpost (Instruments as Luggage Thread)
You'd have to give that legendary (or would it be mythical?) caretaker credit for having the incredible skill and craftsmanship to be able to press a tin tack through the back of a fiddle (the back being a fairly tough wood) at EXACTLY the right spot to pierce the end of the soundpost, and presumably without splitting the soundpost or fiddle back in doing so.
Anyone who isn't a trained luthier like to pick up a fiddle and identify that precise spot just by looking? I don't think I can.
# Posted on August 17th 2006 by lazyhound
Re: Setting your own soundpost (Instruments as Luggage Thread)
Oh, go on Wurzel, have a go!
# Posted on August 17th 2006 by lazyhound
Re: Setting your own soundpost (Instruments as Luggage Thread)
PS the animal glue thing - the reason you use those glues is that they're water-soluble. That means it's possible to put the fiddle up on ramps and unglue stuff. Not so easy with araldite / superglue!
# Posted on August 18th 2006 by Mark Harmer
Re: Setting your own soundpost (Instruments as Luggage Thread)
I think I might've done it! After about half an hour, I've got the soundpost standing in what looks like the proper location. I noticed slight scuff marks and signs of struggle on the back, so I took that to be the spot where the post sat. I also have a soundpost measuring thingy from the StewMac catalog and I used it to help verify the location. Then, with a standard soundpost setting tool, I stabbed the post about three quarters of the way up on the side that should wind up facing me, inserted it through the F hole, planted the foot in the aforementioned spot, leaning away from me. Then I carefully pulled the top end toward me until it seemed to be ready to hold itself upright. It looks pretty close to vertical.
Of course, I could still knock the thing over while tweaking the position, but now I have a much better feel for how the operation goes. If I'm understanding this right, it's very important to slope the top and bottom of the post to match the slope of the fiddle's top and bottom. Not only does it make a better fit when you're done, but it also helps in pulling the post upright. If you've got the bottom of the post in the right location and you're pulling the post toward you, when the top hits the right spot, it suddenly feels much tighter.
# Posted on August 18th 2006 by Bob himself
Re: Setting your own soundpost (Instruments as Luggage Thread)
Wow! It even sounds good, better than before the setup. I'd better quit while I'm ahead. I made a nut, modified and fitted a bridge, refined the fingerboard and reset the soundpost. At a luthier's standard setup rate, I figure I could make at least fifty cents an hour.
# Posted on August 18th 2006 by Bob himself
Re: Setting your own soundpost (Instruments as Luggage Thread)
Great, Bob - sounds like you've got that sorted! Love your comment about the hourly rate - time to start leafing through that yacht catalogue!
# Posted on August 24th 2006 by Mark Harmer