Or, let me put that another way - How many members would admit to being Jews Harp players?
I read somewhere that in the early C19th there were no fewer than five full-time Jews Harp 'makers' living in Ulster alone, so that would indicate that it was indeed a very popular instrument here ............. at one time.
Now I have just learned that, at last weekend's 'International Jew's Harp Festival' in Amsterdam, ‘Michael Wright’ was elected to the International Jew's Harp Society's Board as the representative from the UK,
I understand he is looking at ways to form a UK & Ireland association which could be formed under the umbrella of the Society, but as he is conscious that others may already be working in a similar direction he would be very keen for anyone interested to contact him, via his website at: http://www.jewsharper.info/Index.htm
For anyone not familiar with this instrument, here are some interesting links:
Sorry, forgot to mention that Michael will actually be at the 'Whitby Folk Week' - 19th to 25th August - running workshops, amongst other things, so if you fancy learning the gentle art of playing the Jews Harp, from an expert, then that's the place to be.
Well, my SO is a player, although she tends to use it when she doesn't know the tune, as an alternative to percussion.
Also she reckons the only good ones are a particular model made in the US, and, disaster, has just lost hers out of an open pocket on her backpack.......frantic email to brother in NY to send over a couple of replacements.....
P. S. Anyone wishing to contact 'Michael Wright' about Jews Harps, a possible 'UK & Ireland Jews Harp Association' &/or the 'International Jew's Harp Society', should use this address:
Michael.Wright@oxon.blackwellpublishing.com
'Please be aware that to play a Jew’s harp you need to need to press a metal instrument against your teeth, pull back a spring and let it go. If you are uncomfortable about this, or feel any discomfiture, do not do it!'
on that basis I can think of a few folk who I'd like to take up the Jew's Harp...
Dafydd, looks like Wikipedia beg to differ:
Another name used to identify the instrument especially in scholarly literature is the older 'ENGLISH' "trump" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaw_harp
I think ye olde PC brigade go too far, too often, don't you? I mean, let's face it, the Scots used to be thought of as being mean, but that's been disproved so many times that now we just laugh it off. Now where did I hide that padlock key to my wallet ........................
Fair enough Pete. By the way, has she ever had the 'pleasure' of one falling apart mid-tune, during a solo performance?
Happened to me once at a Folk Club & you don't half feel a prat, standing there in front of an audience with a broken piece of metal in your mouth .... & no sound!
Not quite as spectacular though as when a tail gut goes on a Fiddle - mid-tune! Now that is worth seeing!
I think if you dig deeply evough, the term Jew/Jaw's Harp is derived from Gew-Gaw or some other similar name for an insignificant trinket, and has no religious connotation.
"has no religious connotation" - quite correct Ottery.
“The prefix Jew’s is used only in English and in a small part of Germany and first definitely identifies the instrument in a document dated 1481 as Jue harpes and Jue trumpes.
The significance of this document, a petty customs account, cannot be underestimated, as it not only gives us the early name but a port of origin, Arnemuiden west of Antwerp, and the merchant for whom the consignment was intended, a certain William Codde.
It also clearly indicates that the names Jue harpes and Jue trumpes were in common usage in the late 15th century and known to both customs officer and merchant [Wright 2004]. The term Jaws harp is not seen before the mid-eighteenth century.
There has been a suggestion that the instrument might originally have been called a trump, from the French Trompe, but clear evidence is lacking.
That name, however, is still used today in parts of Ireland and Scotland.”
Lots of interesting facts & thoughts about the Jews Harp can be found here, including - “The way to combat the perception of the name "Jew's harp" as a slur is not to try to change the language, but to improve the image of the instrument.”
“I prefer the term guimbarde to the more common terms of Jew's harp or jaw harp for a variety of reasons.
Jaw harp is simply inaccurate - one does not play it using one's jaw.
Jew's harp is no more accurate and the euphemisms J-harp and juice harp are colourful, but not much better.
Many people consider Jew's harp to be a culturally insensitive term, although one could argue that it shouldn't really be considered any more insulting than using the phrase term French harp to describe the harmonica.
Still, the instrument has no connection with Jewish people and it seems a little bizarre to use this term to describe versions of this instrument from the Far East.
It is often said that Jew's harp is a corruption of jaw harp, but the former is by far the older term and is possibly derived from the French words jeu (a game) or jouer (to play).
I have chosen to use the term guimbarde to describe this family of instruments (I am well aware that this is a less than flattering term itself, being used in France to describe old and badly running automobiles, but it would seem to be the best of a bad lot - although I must confess to a liking for the Latin term crembalum...), using local names to describe particular forms.
Those of you interested in reading more on the naming debate are referred to the following web site”: http://www.jewsharpguild.org/history.html
From what I have read, the term jew's harp was a term of derision, referring to the fact that the instrument was cheap and insignificant, similar to the use of the word jew in statements regarding excessive thrift or stinginess. And so I have no problem leaving that term in the past and replacing it with the term jaw harp, which sounds similar enough that people recognize it, but leaves those negative connotations behind. I heard too many derisive and hateful comments tossed off by people without thinking during my youth--and I think the world is better off if we try to leave those terms behind. Although the language is just one aspect of hatred--wouldn't it be a better world if we could leave all the predjudice behind?
In the same vein, I read an interview with an old Louisiana harmonica player who said that when he was young, the harmonica was called a "French harp," a term of derision, implying that the Cajuns in Louisiana were too poor to buy one of their own--a term that was later shortened to harp, which is still used to refer to harmonicas in America today.
To get back to Ptarmy's original question, I own a jaw harp, but it hurt my teeth, and I could never get it to sound right, so it sits in my "music drawer" along with my spare picks, strings, odd whistles, extra harmonicas, fifes, etc.
I cross posted with Ptarmy, but even reading his additional material on the derivation of the name, I still prefer to call it a jaw harp, and leave the baggage behind.
By the way Ptarmy, you recently posted a reference to a CD with a title "call a spade a spade," which is a term that is seen to have negative connotations in my neck of the woods, so I was surprised to see it being used as an album title. Have you ever looked into the derivation of that phrase?
Must admit I never felt the need for, working as an estate gardener for a number of years, in Scotland, a spade for me was never anything else other than a yolk for double digging the walled vegetable garden.
So it started out around 423 B.C. as an ancient Greek expression “to call a fig a fig, a trough a
trough,"
Though nowadays “The expression is associated with a racial slur and is to be avoided", and recommends using "to
speak plainly" or other alternatives instead.”
So it looks like we’ve lost that lovely old expression now Al, just as we’ve also lost the word gay, from normal everyday use. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay
I knew if anyone could troll the internet for an answer to my question that you could, Ptarmigan.
It is sad to see terms that did not have derisive origins fall into derisive use, but it happens fairly frequently. Among youngsters around here, the word gay has become a common synonym for odd or bad, as in "That shirt of yours looks so gay." Completely separate from its original use as a synonym for "happy," and what I consider its "new" use as a term for gender preference in partners. And it seems that every time someone comes up with a new less derisive term for a handicap or disability, the youngsters turn that into a derisive term as well. As I said above, if we could get rid of the hatred that drives the hateful speech, the world would be a better place. Even as one who tries to avoid using hurtful words, I realize that trying to control the language is almost always a losing battle.
I can't think of any Irish uses of the jaw harp--but I do know that young fiddler John McCusker featured it on at least one of his albums, and I have also heard it used by La Bottine Souriante and Le Vent Du Nord, traditional groups from Quebec.
"I realize that trying to control the language is almost always a losing battle." - sad but true I fear!
Must admit, I didn't know John McCusker used it on an album.
But as far as other Scots musicians are concerned I do know that Allan McDonald has recorded with it as has Lindsay Porteous of Fife, many times, plus Rod Paterson also plays one, as you can hear in the recordings of 'Jock Tamson's Bairns'.
Al, I'm not familiar with the group 'Le Vent Du Nord' but they sound terrific & I notice from their website that, as well as using the term 'Jaw Harp', they also use the instrument to great effect on that track - ‘Les amants du Saint-Laurent’ from the CD of the same name.
Those of you who are particularly interested in the language aspects of the name, should check out Michael’s article on: "Looking for the origins of the name 'Jew's harp'" at: http://www.jewsharper.info/G5_Penning.htm
Surely, for the name Jew's Harp to be considered a term of derision, two bad things have to happen.
1. The etymology has to be misunderstood
2. The word "Jew' has to be accepted as a derogatory term
Ditto the term "Gay"
Whatever happened to the concept of intellectual rigour?
Are you going to let slackers steal your whole language?
Where will it all end?
etc. etc.
That John Wright came to a session of ours once. He had an impressive collection of the instrument that cannot speak it's name - and it was an interesting diversion to listen to them, though they didn't really hold their own against the mighty p.a. ....
There was an irish session at the Bliss music festival in northern Michigan this past July, and at this session there was a jaw harp player who played incessantly. And into a microphone, so it was very clearly audible over the PA. While the many fine fiddle and button box players were not amplified. Perhaps I am just unaccustomed to that boing boing sound in a session...but I have to say, it was mighty obnoxious. It was to my ears about as pleasant as listening to somebody fart into a microphone non-stop for an hour
What !!
Does nobody listen to RnaG anymore ? The day begins and ends very deliberately for nearly a quater of a century with music played on the trumpadh and has been recorded as Ríl RnaG (Mhairtin Shiamuis) by a couple of people including Michael Darby.
IMO the jaw harp really comes into its own when accompanying a clawhammered 5-string banjo and cross-tuned fiddle. Preferably playing a tune like “Squirrel Heads and Gravy”.
I like the sound. Kind of a cross between the didge and rapping the fiddle strings with chopsticks.
I’ve got a couple good spring steel ones that are set in different keys, which has got to be a marketing ploy to charge a few extra bucks. I don’t play them too much, so I never developed the volume and when I do play them, I always seem to at on point clank the twanger on my front tooth which is Not Good.
Re: How many Trumpadh / Maultrommelvirtuosengen are members?
Geo-Linguistic Survey of Terms for the Jew’s Harp
This list includes all the terms entered in the New Grove Dictionary of Musical Instruments (1984) and those in Dournon-Taurelle and Wright’s Les guimbardes du Musèe de l’Homme (1878), as well as many not found in either work.
Cook Islands: pokakakaka; titapu (Rarotonga)
Guam: belembaupachet (Chamorro people)
Hawaii: ni’ au kani
Mangaia: tangi ko’e
Marquesas: hiva oa, tita’a kohe
New Britain Island: kaur (Gazelle Peninsula)
New Guinea: susap (Pidgin): begnankr (Buang people); bombom pumbune, tungge, songer (Biak and Tanah Merah, Irian Jaya)
New Zealand (Maori): kukau, rooria
Palau Islands: tumtum ra lild
Pukapuka: vivo
Samoa: utete (also used in Futuna, Tonga, and Uvea)
Solomon Islands: mabu (Nissan); tankuvani (Nasioi people)
Tonga: mokena
AFRICA (local terms for imported European metal bow-shaped instruments)
Madagascar: lokanga vava
Nigeria: bambaro, bamboro, babore (Hausa people, also in Cameroon, Mali and Niger; Songhay people of Niger); zagada (another Hausa term)
South Africa: sekebeku, setjoli (Sotho people); isithokotholo (Zulu people)
Tanzania: koma (Shambala people)
Ottery, I know where you are coming from, but unless a nation establishes a language board (like the French have tried), we are all at the mercy of common usage. Unlike economics, there does not seem to be an "invisible hand" moving language in the direction of the common good (and there are those that argue that the principle doesn't really apply to economics, despite the claims of Adam Smith).
Like the triangle sound in Cajun music, I find the jaw harp a nice diversion, but grow weary of it after a while. I remember a young woman who pulled out a triangle at our session one night, and after playing it hideously for a few sets, she obeyed us when we asked her to put it away. But when she brought her hand back out of her bag, this time she held a tamborine..........
I only exasperate because, while I have had the pleasure of having excellent tambourine players accompany music I was a part of ~ if this lady wasn't able to play the triangle with skill and consideration, the likelihood that it would be different for the tambourine is, shall I conjecture ~ very slim... So, OUCH!!!
Al, how did you deal with the second bit of banging?
c,
When she pulled out the tamborine, we asked her to stop entirely. If she had had a sense of rhythm, we might have tolerated her, but she was WAY off the beat (and when we spoke to her, we discovered it wasn't only her sense of rhythm that was way off the beat, an odd duck).
But we tried to be nice about it all, and she wasn't too upset, so it wasn't one of those session meltdowns that folks have described in previous threads.....
I just had a thought of Mel Gibson playing the Jews Harp from behind bars. He was screaming " You can take my license; but you can never take my Freeeeeedom!!
Aye thanks Ceolachan. So it doesn't matter which country I visit on my Summer Holidays, I now know how to ask for a Jew's Harp. Can you now find us the word for 'Beer' in all those countries?
"unless a nation establishes a language board (like the French have tried)" - doesn't that sound a bit too much like 'Big Brother' (1984 that is, not the TV sh*te!)
I guess we are all, for good or bad - "at the mercy of common
usage." after all!
Aye Ceolachan, your nearly session meltdown lady reminds me of a Belfast lady who arrived at our session out of the blue early one night - grabbed the central seat.
When I arrived, she immediately introduced herself & said she'd come out from Belfast because "nobody would let her play or sing at any of the Belfast sessions anymore" !!!!!!!!
Naturally, alarm bells started ringing straight away .......... & we quickly learned why!
The last we saw of her was the barman frogmarching her, arm up her back & his arm around her neck, out of the bar - barred for life! ..........
It's a long story with bitter memories for some, but anyway we are now also very, very wary of 'Bag Ladies'!
About recordings of this instrument used with Irish music: we got enthused while watching a movie called "Master and Commander" in which "Sullivan's march" was played with fiddle and bodran and the jew's harp used for rhythym. This is I believe a Chieftain's piece, from "Best of the Chieftains"
On "The Wheels of the World Vol. 1", a collection of recordings from the 1920's and 30's,the Flanagan Bros play "On the road to the Fair", the jew's harp taking the tune, sort of. Actually quite effective.
Incidently I don't play it, my husband does. He carries around town with him while riding the S-Bahn (the train), and it works very well to quiet cranky children.
In Austria, in the late 1700's, this instrument became illegal because it was perceived as a tool for seducing females.
How many Jews Harp players are members?
How many Jews Harp players are members?
Or, let me put that another way - How many members would admit to being Jews Harp players?
I read somewhere that in the early C19th there were no fewer than five full-time Jews Harp 'makers' living in Ulster alone, so that would indicate that it was indeed a very popular instrument here ............. at one time.
Now I have just learned that, at last weekend's 'International Jew's Harp Festival' in Amsterdam, ‘Michael Wright’ was elected to the International Jew's Harp Society's Board as the representative from the UK,
I understand he is looking at ways to form a UK & Ireland association which could be formed under the umbrella of the Society, but as he is conscious that others may already be working in a similar direction he would be very keen for anyone interested to contact him, via his website at:
http://www.jewsharper.info/Index.htm
For anyone not familiar with this instrument, here are some interesting links:
Here is the sound of the Jews Harp, in duet with the Harmonica, .... Do you recognize the tune?:
http://www.mouthmusic.com/audio/MP3/Irish_Duet.mp3
If you are not sure whether the Jews Harp fits in to Irish Music, it can be heard on tracks 4 & 7 of this Josephine Marsh CD:
http://www.taramusic.com/sleevenotes/cd4008.htm
Here is a funky number played on a Chinese Brass Jews Harp:
http://www.mouthmusic.com/audio/MP3/3LeafHoHo_singles.mp3
For anyone interested in this sound, here is the sound of what is believed to be the earliest stringed instrument on the planet – the ‘Mouth Bow’:
http://www.mouthmusic.com/audio/MP3/Mouthbowing.mp3
Of course I have a little bit about the Jews Harp on my own website:
http://www.causewaymusic.co.uk/usjws.html
For a Scottish slant on the Jew’s Harp, you should listen to Lindsay Porteous:
http://www.musicscotland.com/acatalog/MusicScotland_Lindsay_Porteous___A_Scottish_Jew_s_Harp_Player_195.html
Here’s Jack Elliott playing the Strathspey 'Brochan Tanna' on the Jaws Harp:
http://www.asaplive.com/FARNE/Learn.cfm?ccs=188&cs=421
There’s also loads of info at the ‘Jew’s Harp Guild’ website:
http://www.jewsharpguild.org/jhgnews11.html
If you want to hear more – knock yourself out on this page:
http://www.mouthmusic.com/audio/MP3index.htm
So who is going to make the first CD of Irish Tunes on the Jews Harp, or did I miss it?
# Posted on August 2nd 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: How many Jews Harp players are members?
Sorry, forgot to mention that Michael will actually be at the 'Whitby Folk Week' - 19th to 25th August - running workshops, amongst other things, so if you fancy learning the gentle art of playing the Jews Harp, from an expert, then that's the place to be.
# Posted on August 2nd 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: How many Jews Harp players are members?
Well, my SO is a player, although she tends to use it when she doesn't know the tune, as an alternative to percussion.
Also she reckons the only good ones are a particular model made in the US, and, disaster, has just lost hers out of an open pocket on her backpack.......frantic email to brother in NY to send over a couple of replacements.....
# Posted on August 2nd 2006 by Guernsey Pete
Re: How many Jews Harp players are members?
P. S. Anyone wishing to contact 'Michael Wright' about Jews Harps, a possible 'UK & Ireland Jews Harp Association' &/or the 'International Jew's Harp Society', should use this address:
Michael.Wright@oxon.blackwellpublishing.com
# Posted on August 2nd 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: How many Jews Harp players are members?
I thought that the pc term nowadays was "jaw harp".In Scotland it used to be called the "trump"
# Posted on August 2nd 2006 by dafydd
Re: How many Jews Harp players are members?
Pete, has your SO checked out the list of suppliers on Michael's site?:
http://www.jewsharper.info/H2_Manufacturers.htm
# Posted on August 2nd 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: How many Jews Harp players are members?
No, but thanks anyway, we know b-in-law can get them pdq, so he's easy enough to deal with.
# Posted on August 2nd 2006 by Guernsey Pete
Re: How many Jews Harp players are members?
From Michael Wright's website...
'Please be aware that to play a Jew’s harp you need to need to press a metal instrument against your teeth, pull back a spring and let it go. If you are uncomfortable about this, or feel any discomfiture, do not do it!'
on that basis I can think of a few folk who I'd like to take up the Jew's Harp...
# Posted on August 2nd 2006 by Yohan
Re: How many Jews Harp players are members?
Dafydd, looks like Wikipedia beg to differ:
Another name used to identify the instrument especially in scholarly literature is the older 'ENGLISH' "trump"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaw_harp
I think ye olde PC brigade go too far, too often, don't you? I mean, let's face it, the Scots used to be thought of as being mean, but that's been disproved so many times that now we just laugh it off. Now where did I hide that padlock key to my wallet ........................
# Posted on August 2nd 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: How many Jews Harp players are members?
does your wallet have all your £5 notes with the queen wearing sunglasses?
# Posted on August 2nd 2006 by Yohan
Re: How many Jews Harp players are members?
Fair enough Pete. By the way, has she ever had the 'pleasure' of one falling apart mid-tune, during a solo performance?
Happened to me once at a Folk Club & you don't half feel a prat, standing there in front of an audience with a broken piece of metal in your mouth .... & no sound!
Not quite as spectacular though as when a tail gut goes on a Fiddle - mid-tune! Now that is worth seeing!
# Posted on August 2nd 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: How many Jews Harp players are members?
Jim, once I find that key I'll let you know. Mind you, I'll have to hoke past all the £1 notes to see ............
# Posted on August 2nd 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: How many Jews Harp players are members?
I think if you dig deeply evough, the term Jew/Jaw's Harp is derived from Gew-Gaw or some other similar name for an insignificant trinket, and has no religious connotation.
# Posted on August 2nd 2006 by Ottery
Re: How many Jews Harp players are members?
"has no religious connotation" - quite correct Ottery.
“The prefix Jew’s is used only in English and in a small part of Germany and first definitely identifies the instrument in a document dated 1481 as Jue harpes and Jue trumpes.
The significance of this document, a petty customs account, cannot be underestimated, as it not only gives us the early name but a port of origin, Arnemuiden west of Antwerp, and the merchant for whom the consignment was intended, a certain William Codde.
It also clearly indicates that the names Jue harpes and Jue trumpes were in common usage in the late 15th century and known to both customs officer and merchant [Wright 2004]. The term Jaws harp is not seen before the mid-eighteenth century.
There has been a suggestion that the instrument might originally have been called a trump, from the French Trompe, but clear evidence is lacking.
That name, however, is still used today in parts of Ireland and Scotland.”
http://www.silkroadfoundation.org/newsletter/vol2num2/Harp.htm
Lots of interesting facts & thoughts about the Jews Harp can be found here, including - “The way to combat the perception of the name "Jew's harp" as a slur is not to try to change the language, but to improve the image of the instrument.”
http://www.jewsharpguild.org/history.html
“The earliest known written citation of Jew's harp was in 1595, in England. Prior to that it was called Jew's trump (earliest spelling: jewes trump).”
http://www.users.bigpond.com/apertout/Jew'sHarp.htm
“I prefer the term guimbarde to the more common terms of Jew's harp or jaw harp for a variety of reasons.
Jaw harp is simply inaccurate - one does not play it using one's jaw.
Jew's harp is no more accurate and the euphemisms J-harp and juice harp are colourful, but not much better.
Many people consider Jew's harp to be a culturally insensitive term, although one could argue that it shouldn't really be considered any more insulting than using the phrase term French harp to describe the harmonica.
Still, the instrument has no connection with Jewish people and it seems a little bizarre to use this term to describe versions of this instrument from the Far East.
It is often said that Jew's harp is a corruption of jaw harp, but the former is by far the older term and is possibly derived from the French words jeu (a game) or jouer (to play).
I have chosen to use the term guimbarde to describe this family of instruments (I am well aware that this is a less than flattering term itself, being used in France to describe old and badly running automobiles, but it would seem to be the best of a bad lot - although I must confess to a liking for the Latin term crembalum...), using local names to describe particular forms.
Those of you interested in reading more on the naming debate are referred to the following web site”: http://www.jewsharpguild.org/history.html
http://www.patmissin.com/history/guimbardes.html
Here is an interesting Scottish article too, on the pros & cons of the term:
http://albanach.org/trump.html
# Posted on August 2nd 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: How many Jews Harp players are members?
From what I have read, the term jew's harp was a term of derision, referring to the fact that the instrument was cheap and insignificant, similar to the use of the word jew in statements regarding excessive thrift or stinginess. And so I have no problem leaving that term in the past and replacing it with the term jaw harp, which sounds similar enough that people recognize it, but leaves those negative connotations behind. I heard too many derisive and hateful comments tossed off by people without thinking during my youth--and I think the world is better off if we try to leave those terms behind. Although the language is just one aspect of hatred--wouldn't it be a better world if we could leave all the predjudice behind?
In the same vein, I read an interview with an old Louisiana harmonica player who said that when he was young, the harmonica was called a "French harp," a term of derision, implying that the Cajuns in Louisiana were too poor to buy one of their own--a term that was later shortened to harp, which is still used to refer to harmonicas in America today.
To get back to Ptarmy's original question, I own a jaw harp, but it hurt my teeth, and I could never get it to sound right, so it sits in my "music drawer" along with my spare picks, strings, odd whistles, extra harmonicas, fifes, etc.
# Posted on August 2nd 2006 by AlBrown
Re: How many Jews Harp players are members?
I cross posted with Ptarmy, but even reading his additional material on the derivation of the name, I still prefer to call it a jaw harp, and leave the baggage behind.
By the way Ptarmy, you recently posted a reference to a CD with a title "call a spade a spade," which is a term that is seen to have negative connotations in my neck of the woods, so I was surprised to see it being used as an album title. Have you ever looked into the derivation of that phrase?
# Posted on August 2nd 2006 by AlBrown
Re: How many Jews Harp players are members?
Must admit I never felt the need for, working as an estate gardener for a number of years, in Scotland, a spade for me was never anything else other than a yolk for double digging the walled vegetable garden.
However Al, your wish is my command:
http://www.yaelf.com/aueFAQ/miftocllspdspd.shtml
# Posted on August 2nd 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: How many Jews Harp players are members?
So it started out around 423 B.C. as an ancient Greek expression “to call a fig a fig, a trough a
trough,"
Though nowadays “The expression is associated with a racial slur and is to be avoided", and recommends using "to
speak plainly" or other alternatives instead.”
So it looks like we’ve lost that lovely old expression now Al, just as we’ve also lost the word gay, from normal everyday use.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay
# Posted on August 2nd 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: How many Jews Harp players are members?
By the way, I can only think of two recordings of Irish music, where the Jews Harp played a part:
Stockton's Wing - Stockton's Wing with Tommy Hayes on Jews Harp:
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/81/
&
The Lark in the Clear Air with John Wright on Jews Harp:
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/1743
Can anyone here think of any others?
# Posted on August 2nd 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: How many Jews Harp players are members?
I knew if anyone could troll the internet for an answer to my question that you could, Ptarmigan.
It is sad to see terms that did not have derisive origins fall into derisive use, but it happens fairly frequently. Among youngsters around here, the word gay has become a common synonym for odd or bad, as in "That shirt of yours looks so gay." Completely separate from its original use as a synonym for "happy," and what I consider its "new" use as a term for gender preference in partners. And it seems that every time someone comes up with a new less derisive term for a handicap or disability, the youngsters turn that into a derisive term as well. As I said above, if we could get rid of the hatred that drives the hateful speech, the world would be a better place. Even as one who tries to avoid using hurtful words, I realize that trying to control the language is almost always a losing battle.
I can't think of any Irish uses of the jaw harp--but I do know that young fiddler John McCusker featured it on at least one of his albums, and I have also heard it used by La Bottine Souriante and Le Vent Du Nord, traditional groups from Quebec.
# Posted on August 2nd 2006 by AlBrown
Re: How many Jews Harp players are members?
"I realize that trying to control the language is almost always a losing battle." - sad but true I fear!
Must admit, I didn't know John McCusker used it on an album.
But as far as other Scots musicians are concerned I do know that Allan McDonald has recorded with it as has Lindsay Porteous of Fife, many times, plus Rod Paterson also plays one, as you can hear in the recordings of 'Jock Tamson's Bairns'.
# Posted on August 2nd 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: How many Jews Harp players are members?
Al, I'm not familiar with the group 'Le Vent Du Nord' but they sound terrific & I notice from their website that, as well as using the term 'Jaw Harp', they also use the instrument to great effect on that track - ‘Les amants du Saint-Laurent’ from the CD of the same name.
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.leventdunord.com/&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DLe%2BVent%2BDu%2BNord%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG
# Posted on August 2nd 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: How many Jews Harp players are members?
Those of you who are particularly interested in the language aspects of the name, should check out Michael’s article on: "Looking for the origins of the name 'Jew's harp'" at:
http://www.jewsharper.info/G5_Penning.htm
Here is some background information too from Michael Wright on the name Jeu Harpes & Jeu Trumpes:
http://www.jewsharper.info/JIJHS2B%2B.pdf
# Posted on August 2nd 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: How many Jews Harp players are members?
Surely, for the name Jew's Harp to be considered a term of derision, two bad things have to happen.
1. The etymology has to be misunderstood
2. The word "Jew' has to be accepted as a derogatory term
Ditto the term "Gay"
Whatever happened to the concept of intellectual rigour?
Are you going to let slackers steal your whole language?
Where will it all end?
etc. etc.
That John Wright came to a session of ours once. He had an impressive collection of the instrument that cannot speak it's name - and it was an interesting diversion to listen to them, though they didn't really hold their own against the mighty p.a. ....
# Posted on August 2nd 2006 by Ottery
Re: How many Jews Harp players are members?
There was an irish session at the Bliss music festival in northern Michigan this past July, and at this session there was a jaw harp player who played incessantly. And into a microphone, so it was very clearly audible over the PA. While the many fine fiddle and button box players were not amplified. Perhaps I am just unaccustomed to that boing boing sound in a session...but I have to say, it was mighty obnoxious. It was to my ears about as pleasant as listening to somebody fart into a microphone non-stop for an hour
# Posted on August 2nd 2006 by timmy!
Re: How many Jews Harp players are members?
What !!
Does nobody listen to RnaG anymore ? The day begins and ends very deliberately for nearly a quater of a century with music played on the trumpadh and has been recorded as Ríl RnaG (Mhairtin Shiamuis) by a couple of people including Michael Darby.
# Posted on August 2nd 2006 by Patkiwi
Re: How many Jews Harp players are members?
IMO the jaw harp really comes into its own when accompanying a clawhammered 5-string banjo and cross-tuned fiddle. Preferably playing a tune like “Squirrel Heads and Gravy”.
I like the sound. Kind of a cross between the didge and rapping the fiddle strings with chopsticks.
I’ve got a couple good spring steel ones that are set in different keys, which has got to be a marketing ploy to charge a few extra bucks. I don’t play them too much, so I never developed the volume and when I do play them, I always seem to at on point clank the twanger on my front tooth which is Not Good.
# Posted on August 2nd 2006 by fidkid
Re: How many Trumpadh / Maultrommelvirtuosengen are members?
Geo-Linguistic Survey of Terms for the Jew’s Harp
This list includes all the terms entered in the New Grove Dictionary of Musical Instruments (1984) and those in Dournon-Taurelle and Wright’s Les guimbardes du Musèe de l’Homme (1878), as well as many not found in either work.
EUROPE
Albania: vegël tringulluese
Basque: trompa, modu-gitarra, muxu-gitarra, mosu-musika
Byelorussian: drymba
Czech: brumle, drnkaäka
Danish: mundharpe
Dutch: mondtrom
English: Jew’s harp, Jew’s trump, jawharp, jaw’s harp, juice harp
Estonian: parmupill (“bumble-bee instrument”), konnapill (“frog instrument”), suupill (“lip-instrument”)
Finnish: munniharppu, turpajurra (“impossible to translate”), märistysrauta (something like “trembling iron”), huulipeli (“lip-instrument”), suupeli (“mouth-instrument”), suuharppu (“mouth harp”), mörinärauta (“growl iron”), möristysrauta (“growling iron”), juutalaisharppu (“jew harp”), juutalaisen harppu (“jew's harp”), taavetin harppu (“David's harp”), pussipeli (“bag-instrument”) *Compiled with the assistance of Jarno Miettinen (President of the Finnish Jew's Harp Association)
Flemish: tromp
French: guimbarde; Switzerland: bombarde, rebaîrbe (North Jura), rbiba (South Jura), rbaîrbe (Freiberge)
German: maultrommel, mundharmonika (elegant nineteenth century term); Switzerland: trümmi (Lucerne), trimpi, trimmi (Uri), muultrummle (Bern), tremolo (Bosco-Gurin)
Hungarian: doromb
Icelandic: munnharpa
Irish: trumpadh
Italian: scacciapensieri, ribeba; Sicilian: marranzanu, gnagnararrone; Switzerland: zanforgna, cinforgna, zinforgna
Latvian: vargas
Lithuanian: bandírälis, bandurka, šeivale
Norwegian: munnharpa, munnspill
Portugese: berimbau
Romanian: drîmba, drîmboaie, drîmb, drînd, drîndä, drîng
Romansch: timpan, suna da bucca, trumbla, tschinforgna, schanforgna
Russian: vargan
Sardinian: sa trunfa
Scottish Gaelic: tromp
Serbian: drombulja, drombulje, drimbolj
Spanish: birimbao, guimbarda
Swedish: mungiga
Ukrainian: drymba, drumlya, doromba, organ, vargan, vigran
Welsh: ysturmant (North Wales), biwba (South Wales), biwbo, giwga, giwgan
Wendish: brumladeo
ASIA
Afghanistan: chang-ko’uz (Mzbek people)
Altay: temir-komus, komos, kobys-tyunyur
Bashkir: kubyz, kumyz; wooden lamellate type: agach-kumyz, agach-kubyz; metal bow-shaped type: timer-kumyz, temir-kubyz
Buryat: khur, khuur
Burma: ata (Lahu people); rab ncas (Hmong people)
Cambodia: angkuoc
China: huang, koqin; k’api (Lutseu people): tivtiv (Ami subculture, Taiwan)
Chukchi: vanni-yayar (“tooth-tambourine”)
Chuvash: varam-tuma (“gnat”), palnay, jupas, varkhan
Even: kunkon
Evenk: wooden lamellate type: panar, purgip-kavun; metal bow-shaped type: kengipkevun, kongipkavun, pangipkavun
India: generally distributed terms: murchang, morchang, muchang, munchang, mursang; mursing, morsing (Tamil Nadu); gagana (Garo people, Assam); ghoraliyau (Rajasthan); tendor (Madhya Pradesh); ka-mien (Khasi people, Assam, and Meghalay)
Indonesia: genggong; rinding (Java), karinding (Baduj people, West Java): gogo (Gayo area, Sumatra); popo (Acheh region, Sumatra); druri bewe (southern Nias), duri (northern Nias); ego, genggo, robe (Flores); juring (Krui area, Sumatra); saga-saga (Pakpak Dairi region, northern Sumatra); karombi (Sa’dan Toraja area, South Sulawesi); oli (Minahasa, North Sulawesi); nago oa, keit besi, nago besi (Timor)
Iran: zamburak
Japan: mukkuri (Hokkaido Ainu), mukkuna (Sakhalin Ainu)
Kazakh: komyz, temir-komyz
Ket: pymel’
Khakass: temir-komys
Khantsi: tumra, tomra
Kirghiz: wooden lamellate type: komuz; metal bow-shaped type: temir-komuz
Koryak: vanni-yayay (“tooth-tambourine”)
Laos: hun, toi
Malaysia: bungkau, turiding (Sabah); gurudeng (Iban people, Sarawak); junggotan (Bedayah people, South Sarawak); juring rangguin (Temiar people, West Malaysia): rangoyd (Lanoh tribe, West Malaysia); rangun (Juhai tribe, West Malaysia); jyrin (Sakai people, Malacca, Kelantan) Mansi: tumran, suup-tumran
Man: kovyzh, komyzh, kabas, umsha-kovyzh
Mongolia: aman khuur, aman tobshuur; Dörböt tribe, western Mongolia: bamboo, horn, bone, or wooden lamellate type: khulsan khuur; iron bow-shaped type: temür khuur, tömör khuur
Nanay: metal lamellate type: kunkha; metal bow-shaped type: myny
Negidal: konkikhi
Nenets: vyvko (“buzzer”)
Nepal: bamboo lamellate type: binaiyo; kha-wang (metal bow-shaped type, Thakahi people); machinga, changu (Sunuwar people); machunga (Rai people); kom-i (Limbu people); gon-kap (Tamang people)
Nivkh: wooden or copper lamellate type: kanga; iron bow-shaped type: vych ranga
Oroch: kunkan
Orok: kunga
Pakistan: chang, morchang
Philippines: kubing (southern Philippines); abafiw, alibaw, olat, onat (Bontoc people, northern Philippines); afiw (northern Philippines); biqqung, guyud (Ifugao people); giwong, onat, ulibao, ulibaw (Kalinga people); ko-ding (Ibaloy people); kulibao
(Negrito people); ori-bao (Isneg people) Sel’kup: pynyr (“hummer”), al’ pynyr (“mouth hummer”); wooden lamellate type: pol’
pynyr; metal bow-shaped type: kezyl pynyr
Tajik: chang-kobuz, temir-chang, changi zanona
Tatar: kubyz
Thailand: hoen-toong
Tibet: kha-rnga (“mouth-drum”, cf. German Maultrommel)
Turkey: aêiz tamburasi
Turkmen: kobyz
Tuvinian: wooden lamellate type: yash-khomus; bamboo or reed lamellate type: kuluzun-khomus; metal bow-shaped type: temir-khomus
Udegey: metal lamellate and metal bow-shaped types: kongkoy
Ul’chi: panga
Uzbek: chang-kobuz, chang-kavuz, temir-chang
Vietnam: çàn môi; nggoec, tong (Mnong people); kong kle, kon hle, rhnui (Sedang people); göch (Rhade people); roding (Jorai people); toung {Koho, Sre, and Maa peoples); then (Bahnar people); guat (Roglai people); pang teu ing (Muong people)
Yakut: khomus
OCEANIA
Cook Islands: pokakakaka; titapu (Rarotonga)
Guam: belembaupachet (Chamorro people)
Hawaii: ni’ au kani
Mangaia: tangi ko’e
Marquesas: hiva oa, tita’a kohe
New Britain Island: kaur (Gazelle Peninsula)
New Guinea: susap (Pidgin): begnankr (Buang people); bombom pumbune, tungge, songer (Biak and Tanah Merah, Irian Jaya)
New Zealand (Maori): kukau, rooria
Palau Islands: tumtum ra lild
Pukapuka: vivo
Samoa: utete (also used in Futuna, Tonga, and Uvea)
Solomon Islands: mabu (Nissan); tankuvani (Nasioi people)
Tonga: mokena
AFRICA (local terms for imported European metal bow-shaped instruments)
Madagascar: lokanga vava
Nigeria: bambaro, bamboro, babore (Hausa people, also in Cameroon, Mali and Niger; Songhay people of Niger); zagada (another Hausa term)
South Africa: sekebeku, setjoli (Sotho people); isithokotholo (Zulu people)
Tanzania: koma (Shambala people)
http://www.users.bigpond.com/apertout/Jew'sHarp.htm
http://www.antropodium.nl/
http://www.antropodium.nl/allVIMs.htm
# Posted on August 2nd 2006 by ceolachan
Re: How many Jews Harp players are members?
Ottery, I know where you are coming from, but unless a nation establishes a language board (like the French have tried), we are all at the mercy of common usage. Unlike economics, there does not seem to be an "invisible hand" moving language in the direction of the common good (and there are those that argue that the principle doesn't really apply to economics, despite the claims of Adam Smith).
Like the triangle sound in Cajun music, I find the jaw harp a nice diversion, but grow weary of it after a while. I remember a young woman who pulled out a triangle at our session one night, and after playing it hideously for a few sets, she obeyed us when we asked her to put it away. But when she brought her hand back out of her bag, this time she held a tamborine..........
# Posted on August 2nd 2006 by AlBrown
Re: How many Jews Harp players are members?
Ouch!
# Posted on August 2nd 2006 by ceolachan
Re: How many Jews Harp players are members?
I only exasperate because, while I have had the pleasure of having excellent tambourine players accompany music I was a part of ~ if this lady wasn't able to play the triangle with skill and consideration, the likelihood that it would be different for the tambourine is, shall I conjecture ~ very slim... So, OUCH!!!
Al, how did you deal with the second bit of banging?
# Posted on August 2nd 2006 by ceolachan
Re: How many Jews Harp players are members?
c,
When she pulled out the tamborine, we asked her to stop entirely. If she had had a sense of rhythm, we might have tolerated her, but she was WAY off the beat (and when we spoke to her, we discovered it wasn't only her sense of rhythm that was way off the beat, an odd duck).
But we tried to be nice about it all, and she wasn't too upset, so it wasn't one of those session meltdowns that folks have described in previous threads.....
# Posted on August 2nd 2006 by AlBrown
Re: How many Jews Harp players are members?
I just had a thought of Mel Gibson playing the Jews Harp from behind bars. He was screaming " You can take my license; but you can never take my Freeeeeedom!!
Man without a face
# Posted on August 2nd 2006 by Lint - upon - Tweed
Re: How many Jews Harp players are members?
Good one, fisarmonicha!
Thanks, ceolachan, for your latest scholarly contribution ("Geo-linguistic survey.....")
# Posted on August 3rd 2006 by oldstrings
Re: How many Jews Harp players are members?
Aye thanks Ceolachan. So it doesn't matter which country I visit on my Summer Holidays, I now know how to ask for a Jew's Harp. Can you now find us the word for 'Beer' in all those countries?
"unless a nation establishes a language board (like the French have tried)" - doesn't that sound a bit too much like 'Big Brother' (1984 that is, not the TV sh*te!)
I guess we are all, for good or bad - "at the mercy of common
usage." after all!
Aye Ceolachan, your nearly session meltdown lady reminds me of a Belfast lady who arrived at our session out of the blue early one night - grabbed the central seat.
When I arrived, she immediately introduced herself & said she'd come out from Belfast because "nobody would let her play or sing at any of the Belfast sessions anymore" !!!!!!!!
Naturally, alarm bells started ringing straight away .......... & we quickly learned why!
The last we saw of her was the barman frogmarching her, arm up her back & his arm around her neck, out of the bar - barred for life! ..........
It's a long story with bitter memories for some, but anyway we are now also very, very wary of 'Bag Ladies'!
# Posted on August 3rd 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: How many Jews Harp players are members?
I love playing jigs and reels solo with a trump. The notes are all there.
# Posted on August 3rd 2006 by stephenseifert
Re: How many Jews Harp players are members?
Have you seen this guy play?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjZKDqcKLyg
# Posted on August 14th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: How many Jews Harp players are members?
About recordings of this instrument used with Irish music: we got enthused while watching a movie called "Master and Commander" in which "Sullivan's march" was played with fiddle and bodran and the jew's harp used for rhythym. This is I believe a Chieftain's piece, from "Best of the Chieftains"
On "The Wheels of the World Vol. 1", a collection of recordings from the 1920's and 30's,the Flanagan Bros play "On the road to the Fair", the jew's harp taking the tune, sort of. Actually quite effective.
Incidently I don't play it, my husband does. He carries around town with him while riding the S-Bahn (the train), and it works very well to quiet cranky children.
In Austria, in the late 1700's, this instrument became illegal because it was perceived as a tool for seducing females.
# Posted on September 11th 2006 by La_grotte