I recently got to see an accordian player from England by the name of Brian Peters at the Sea Music Festival in Mystic, CT a few weeks ago and after hearing him I was immediately compelled to buy a CD from him. In the liner notes he made mention that no CD of his would be complete without a 3:2 hornpipe. The set of them on this particular CD (Different Tounges) was Sailor's Delight/Cobbler's Hornpipe.
I became intrigued. I had never heard of such a thing before. Upon listening I came to notice that they are indeed in the time signature of 3/2, but have a strange feel to them, somewhat slip jig like.
Since I had not encountered these before I was curious what anyone knew about them. Where they come from, where you've heard them, any that you happen to like, etc..
Re: 3:2 hornpipes; What does anyone know about these?
3/2s are great. They're very Northern English and very old and very cool. You say they're like slip jigs, and that's true. A lot of the old 3/2s got transformed into slip jigs (or hop jigs) and survive in the repertoires of modern Irish musos as such, one example being the Dusty Miller. If you want to have a go at some 3/2s, there are some on this site. Do a tune search under the "three-two" genre in the drop down list.
Re: 3:2 hornpipes; What does anyone know about these?
I think this was a common time signature for "hornpipes" during Elizabethan times.
Long ago, time signatures for various dances were not as set as they are today. For example, the Elizabethen tune "Kemp's Jig" is play in 4/4 or 2/4, not the 6/8 that we now think of as jig time.
Re: 3:2 hornpipes; What does anyone know about these?
I've encountered the 3/2 time signature mostly in English country and Quebecois step dance tunes. Are the hornpipes you're talking about played differently than these?
Re: 3:2 hornpipes; What does anyone know about these?
3/2 is an abomination of 6/4, double waltz time, as in Graine Owen with her "Ride me Sideways" which she describes as a slip jig. I prefer to call it a hop jig moderato with a solid groove.
Re: 3:2 hornpipes; What does anyone know about these?
3/2 is not the same as 6/4. 3/2 is 3 groups of 2 and 6/4 is 2 groups of 3. Having said that, as chadmills points out, 3/2s are often played as though they alternate between 3/2 and 6/4 because of the emphasis on certain notes.
Re: 3:2 hornpipes; What does anyone know about these?
John Offord's book is the standard repository. John plays these in a pretty straight rhythm - Then again, it wasn't till I moved out of London that i heard anyone dot hornpipes. Have a listen to waterson:carthy's various 3:2 sets too - fabulous playing.
Re: 3:2 hornpipes; What does anyone know about these?
The Scottish song "Came ye o'er frae France" is in this time. The rhythm is something like:
ONE-and-two-and-three, ONE-and-two-and-three-ee,
ONE-and-two-and-three, ONE-and-two-and-three-ee...
- The first "three" in each line being, in this song, a crotchet, the second being two quavers or a quaver triplet. Capitals represent the main beat.
- However, within the 3:2 rhythm there is room to vary the arrangement of crotchets/quavers and the notes emphasised.
- 3:2 hornpipes/tunes could mutate into slip-jigs, but not into 4:4 horn-
pipes: these have a quite different structure and their tunes had to be acquired elsewhere.
3:2 hornpipes; What does anyone know about these?
3:2 hornpipes; What does anyone know about these?
I recently got to see an accordian player from England by the name of Brian Peters at the Sea Music Festival in Mystic, CT a few weeks ago and after hearing him I was immediately compelled to buy a CD from him. In the liner notes he made mention that no CD of his would be complete without a 3:2 hornpipe. The set of them on this particular CD (Different Tounges) was Sailor's Delight/Cobbler's Hornpipe.
I became intrigued. I had never heard of such a thing before. Upon listening I came to notice that they are indeed in the time signature of 3/2, but have a strange feel to them, somewhat slip jig like.
Since I had not encountered these before I was curious what anyone knew about them. Where they come from, where you've heard them, any that you happen to like, etc..
# Posted on July 21st 2006 by trimthevelvet
Re: 3:2 hornpipes; What does anyone know about these?
Somebody nudge Dow!
# Posted on July 21st 2006 by Bob himself
Re: 3:2 hornpipes; What does anyone know about these?
3/2s are great. They're very Northern English and very old and very cool. You say they're like slip jigs, and that's true. A lot of the old 3/2s got transformed into slip jigs (or hop jigs) and survive in the repertoires of modern Irish musos as such, one example being the Dusty Miller. If you want to have a go at some 3/2s, there are some on this site. Do a tune search under the "three-two" genre in the drop down list.
# Posted on July 21st 2006 by Dow
Re: 3:2 hornpipes; What does anyone know about these?
I think this was a common time signature for "hornpipes" during Elizabethan times.
Long ago, time signatures for various dances were not as set as they are today. For example, the Elizabethen tune "Kemp's Jig" is play in 4/4 or 2/4, not the 6/8 that we now think of as jig time.
# Posted on July 21st 2006 by Murph
Re: 3:2 hornpipes; What does anyone know about these?
The lilt of them is what was described as "the doodle doodle doodle of the bagpipes" by an 18th century traveller in Lancashire.
# Posted on July 21st 2006 by LastToFinish
Re: 3:2 hornpipes; What does anyone know about these?
Often very "compound" time, the rhythm of each bar can be split in many ways, and 3:2's delight in it.
The collection "John of the Greeny Cheshire Way" is out there in abc for anyone who cares to look.
# Posted on July 21st 2006 by TomB-R
Re: 3:2 hornpipes; What does anyone know about these?
I've encountered the 3/2 time signature mostly in English country and Quebecois step dance tunes. Are the hornpipes you're talking about played differently than these?
# Posted on July 21st 2006 by vonnieestes
Re: 3:2 hornpipes; What does anyone know about these?
Check out an album called English and Border Music for Pipes by David Faulkner and Steve Turner, has some lovely 3:2s.
# Posted on July 21st 2006 by jiggery3
Re: 3:2 hornpipes; What does anyone know about these?
3/2 is an abomination of 6/4, double waltz time, as in Graine Owen with her "Ride me Sideways" which she describes as a slip jig. I prefer to call it a hop jig moderato with a solid groove.
# Posted on July 22nd 2006 by howsshecutting
Re: 3:2 hornpipes; What does anyone know about these?
3/2 is not the same as 6/4. 3/2 is 3 groups of 2 and 6/4 is 2 groups of 3. Having said that, as chadmills points out, 3/2s are often played as though they alternate between 3/2 and 6/4 because of the emphasis on certain notes.
# Posted on July 22nd 2006 by Dow
Re: 3:2 hornpipes; What does anyone know about these?
Richard Robinson's Tunebook
http://www.leeds.ac.uk/music/Info/RRTuneBk/tunebook.html
Tunebook ~ Lists of Tunes
http://www.leeds.ac.uk/music/Info/RRTuneBk/listings.html
John of the Greeny Cheshire Way
http://www.leeds.ac.uk/music/Info/RRTuneBk/Greeny/Greeny.name.html
# Posted on July 22nd 2006 by ceolachan
Re: 3:2 hornpipes; What does anyone know about these?
thank you all so much. That has actually all been quite helpful.
# Posted on July 24th 2006 by trimthevelvet
Re: 3:2 hornpipes; What does anyone know about these?
John Offord's book is the standard repository. John plays these in a pretty straight rhythm - Then again, it wasn't till I moved out of London that i heard anyone dot hornpipes. Have a listen to waterson:carthy's various 3:2 sets too - fabulous playing.
Oh yes, hello list.
Cheers,
Jon
# Posted on July 31st 2006 by jonloomes
Re: 3:2 hornpipes; What does anyone know about these?
The Scottish song "Came ye o'er frae France" is in this time. The rhythm is something like:
ONE-and-two-and-three, ONE-and-two-and-three-ee,
ONE-and-two-and-three, ONE-and-two-and-three-ee...
- The first "three" in each line being, in this song, a crotchet, the second being two quavers or a quaver triplet. Capitals represent the main beat.
- However, within the 3:2 rhythm there is room to vary the arrangement of crotchets/quavers and the notes emphasised.
- 3:2 hornpipes/tunes could mutate into slip-jigs, but not into 4:4 horn-
pipes: these have a quite different structure and their tunes had to be acquired elsewhere.
# Posted on August 2nd 2006 by nicholas