The Greek bouzouki was introduced into Irish Traditional Music in the 1960s by Johnny Moynihan and was quickly taken up by Andy Irvine.
Soon after, the Irish bouzouki began to develop into something like its current form.
Today, the Irish bouzouki is an important part of the Irish trad scene, most often (though not always) playing accompaniment, mostly a mix of two note chords, basslines, and bits of countermelody, rather than the melody.
Perhaps the best known exponent of the Irish bouzouki is Dónal Lunny, who also created an electric version, known as the e-zouk.
The Irish bouzouki generally has a flat or lightly arched back (like that of a guitar or an Irish, American, or Portuguese style mandolin) in place of stave-built round back of the Greek bouzouki, and unlike the Greek instrument is usually tuned to GDAD or GDAE (an octave below the mandolin).
For all intents and purposes, the modern Irish bouzouki is a member of the mandolin family, and a bouzouki in name only.
However, the Irish bouzouki is distinguished from the somewhat similar-looking octave mandolin in that it has a longer fretboard and characteristic tuning.
Like mandolins, Irish bouzoukis are variously made with flat, carved (arched) and bent tops.
Hardly anyone uses the Greek bouzouki for Irish music today; Alec Finn is the only professional of any consequence to continue in playing one.
The typical scale length of the Irish bouzouki is 22 to 24 inches (550 to 610 mm), although some are as long as 26 inches (660 mm); an instrument in the same tuning with a scale length of 20 inches (500 mm) or less is generally termed an octave mandola (Europe, Ireland, and the UK) or octave mandolin (US and Canada).
The first Irish bouzouki was probably one built by Peter Abnett, an English luthier who continues to build bouzoukis and other mandolin family instruments to this day.
Luthiers Stefan Sobell and Joe Foley have also been major figures in the development of the instrument.
I would query Ptarmigan's details slightly; in my humble opinion ANYTHING with a scale length LESS than 660 mm is classified as an octave mandola ( which is a nonsense, they should all be called octave MANDOLINS ); I do have memories of Johnny Moynihan and Andy Irvine turning up at an english folk festival with a couple of re-strung Greek bouzoukis in the late '60's, just pre-Planxty; I haven't yet looked up the other two sources listed by Ptarmy above, but I believe that the first ever instrument that we would now recognise as an Irish 'zouk was built by the english instrument-builder John Bailey, for John Pearse the guitarist/singer and guitar teacher, back in the EARLY '60's, but he had no idea what to do with it at the time !
To repeat earlier discussions on this forum; also Dave Richardson, of the Boys of the Lough, was another early instigator of a push for a long-necked deeper-toned mandolin substitute, and probably played the first flat-backed model I can recall seeing.
Aye Pete, I have of course, no idea who contributed that piece for Wikipedia, but I thought it was a useful starting point.
I personally don't have sleepless nights worrying over whether my Octave Mandola is one or not & I've never bothered measuring the neck - after all size isn't everything ( ...as I keep telling the wife! )
Interesting to hear about this John Bailey fellow - he didn't have anything to do with adding cream to Whisky too did he Pete?
I saw Mick Conneely play the Greek bouzouki in at a concert with Noel Hill and Tony Linnane but I suppsose he isn't of any consequence? I have also played with Sean O Loinsig on occasion but I suppsoe he can be ruled out too.
Pete, seems Paul Kotapish backs up your John Bailey theory:
"Johnny Moynihan credits the first flatback bouzouki to Irish guitar maker John Bailey, who set about trying to re-create a Greek-style instrument but found it too troublesome to deal with the ribbed back.
His 1963 experiment was a one-off, but Moynihan has played the thing for years, inspiring subsequent builders and players." http://www.acousticguitar.com/issues/ag89/bouzouki.html
If you're bothered by tetrachordal bouzoukis - and to be honest who isn't? - then this site should offer balm to the senses: http://dechiotification.rebetiko.org/
And, pTarmi, before you write to Wikipedia and correct them, as surely you have time to, perhaps you could give us theSession.orgers a wee sneak preview of who else beside Alec Finn is playing a three-course Greek bouzouki professsionally and consequentially in Irish music at the moment?
Och Bren, too early in the morning for you, is it?
If you'd actually read kilfarboy's post, above, you would see that he has already pointed out two very worthy (in his & my opinion too) contenders for consequential Greek Bouzouki players!
Perhaps there are more, but I think they perhaps deserve a mention.
Please Note:
Excellent album from Mick Conneely(fiddle, Greek Bouzouki), with Niall O Callanain (bouzouki),and Mick Conneely Snr (fiddle).
Mayo based fiddle player, who previously toured with De Danann(1991-1995) and who plays each Wednesday night in Matt Molloy's in Westport.
Right Janek, next, you put down your broken Bouzouki & pick up your Ukrainian Bandurist!
"First mentions of a Ukrainian Bandurist date back to Polish chronicles of 1441.
The classical bandura became very popular among the Ukrainian Cossacks and was often played in the courts of Poland and Russia."
Australian National Folk Festival, 2006.Urgent call to organisers that a replacement Bouzouki was needed at one of the main stages because the airlines had brocken the neck of one of the bands instruments and they were due on stage in 15 mins. The person answering the call was Graham McDonald, Bouzouki maker mentioned earlier. He rushed one of his Bouzoukis to the stage, only to find that the band in Question was Rebatiki, a Greek band from Melbourne. They did the rest of their gigs at the festival playing Greek Music on an Irish Bouzouki. Now that's multi-culturalism in action.
Funnily enough, Ptarm, no further than yesterday I was admiring a nice Bandura in a music shop near where I work. However, after playing a 3 string bouzouki, the number of strings on this one can cause a system shock.
I'm of no consequence,but I still play my Greek bouzouki.I own a flat backed Irish one too.Irish bouzouki,isn't that an oxymoron?Donal Lunny said that when he took his flatback to Greece they laughed at it.
Cool! I see it goes back to at least 1460 Janek. Any idea how they are played? Is the technique a bit like for an Autoharp, where you pluck your major notes from the five major strings & strum the other sympathic strings, or ................?
Could only find a group sound clip, which actually includes a tsimbaly, so I’m not complaining, but what does it sound like on its own? ......any links?
As to the way you play it, it is played more or less like a harp (although you hold it differently). There are three different types of Bandura - Classical bandura, with 20 to 24 strings (diatonic tuning), Poltavka - at the moment almost totally extinct in Ukraine, with 60 to 65 strings (chromatic), and Bandura Kiyevska - the most modern version, with 12 bass strings and 43 tenor, tuned in 5 octaves. The last one comes in several versions (small, alto, bass and contra-bass).
Thanks for that. I was wondering what the connection with Irish Bouzouki was, but now I've listened to the mp3 of the bandura, it's bleed'n obvious. Thanks for clearing that up for me. It's so obviously related!
The history of the modern Irish bouzouki is more complicated than a mere mandolization* of roundback Greek bouzoukis. The design of the early English guitars / flatback metal-stringed citterns were a strong influence too.
The instruments the "Corries" played were called "combolins". The reason they "never became popular" is that they made them themselves - [ or had them made for them - not exactly sure about that ], - and there are only two in the world.
Yes Dow, & Graham McDonald looks at some of those Guitar influences on his page, which I linked to above - i.e. Graham McDonald – Mandolins & Bouzoukis: http://www.mcdonaldstrings.com/zook_article.html
Aye Kenny - "The Combolins were designed and made by Roy over a period of time from the late 1960's to the early 1970's and became an inherent part of The Corries' music."
PS. Is there a picture of a Bandura anywhere? Are they harp-like or Zither like or what? And as for the combolin, what a motherless looking contraption. I want one!
"Hey Ptarmigan, it's MY job to bring out wierd instruments at sessions, so hands off." - Hey, nae bother Don, I'll hang onto the franchise for the Northern Helisphere & you keep one for the Southern Hemisphere!
As for what the Bandura looks like, you should check my link above, for some interesting old photos.
I wonder if the bandura is related to the Spanish bandurria, a sort of cross between a lute and a small guitar, which is used in the folk music of Aragón for playing jotas.
The bandurria is the instrument played by the infamous "Spanish Students," a touring group who took our country by storm in 1880 and ultimately inspired the subsequent Mandolin Orchestra craze.
As the bandurria was considered a musical counterpart to the mandolin, Americans chose to simply use the Neapolitan mandolin (and later flat- or arched-back mandolins) to recreate the sound in mandolin clubs and orchestras.
Even so, the bandurria was well enough known that some American manufacturers made them on a custom or limited basis.
Yes, that´s the beast ! Although Knutsen´s one looks as if it could have been designed by Picasso !
The student groups mentioned are called "Tunas". Their members are traditionally drawn from universities that have faculties of law and medicine. They wear 17th century cloaks and are still in demand for events such as weddings. Very traditional Spanish - very "castizo" !
From the 'horse's mouth', Johnny Moynihan told me that he swapped his guitar for a bouzouki while playing as one of the musicians forming part of the entertainment provided by a cruise liner touring the Med in 1963. One of his fellow musicians acquired a bouzouki somewhere on their travels and didn't know what to make of it, so Johnny offered his guitar as exchange. He then messed around with it for a while before hearing Davy Graham's 'Folk Blues and Beyond' LP. The rest is history.
Glad I got in early on such an interesting discussion.
You guys do yabber while I'm out at work - phew, it was hot down the City Road, glad I only had 4 hours to do today !
Does any London resident know what happened to the shop between the Angel and the Screen on the Green, used to deal in camera bits, guitar bits, amps,etc, all second-hand ? Did they move out, or did they move on to another location, that area just gets more gentrified by the day, all those coffee bars and pizza places, but nowhere for anything interesting.
Hey Kilfar, if you ever get a chance to see Mick Coneely with his fiddle you'll really see something. He's highly underrated, but still of consequence.
Thanks for that story Geoff! 43 years ago, eh! A Dublin friend told me he used to regularly see Johnny cycling around town, no doubt to & from sessions, with all manner of instruments tied to himself & strapped onto the bike.
He played my folk club up here a few years back & he is certainly a character.
John Bailey built my guitar in 1964, and he had, among other unusual things, an instrument he called a cittern (bouzouki?) John was fascinated by early stringed instruments, and spent a lot of time, in his tiny shop atached to his house in Wembley, trying to re-create them. He told me about building several instruments just to see how they would turn out, then giving them to John Pearse to see if he could find out how to play them.
Wavedc asked about the origins of the Irish Bouzouki.
Well, it looks like it’s oldest ancestor dates back to at least 2500 BC. http://www.guitarsite.com/history7.htm#history7
If you explore that site you'll learn about the 'Hittite' (1500 BC).
Interestingly, next in the lineage dates from 1250 BC & shows a Scotsman in a Kilt playing a Long Necked Lute
origins of Irish bouzouki
origins of Irish bouzouki
Last year I posted questions about the origins of DADGAD tuning for guitar...got great responses from all of you.
This year I am writing about GDAD tuning for Irish bouzouki.
I would like to ask the following questions of all the experts in TIM out there...
1. What are the differences between Greek and Irish bouzouki?
2. When and by whom was the Irish bouzouki created?
3. What are the differences between Irish bouzouki and octave mandolin?
4. Who came up with the GDAD tuning? When?
5. Any comments?
wavedc@gmail.com
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by wavedc
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
Try this:
The Greek bouzouki was introduced into Irish Traditional Music in the 1960s by Johnny Moynihan and was quickly taken up by Andy Irvine.
Soon after, the Irish bouzouki began to develop into something like its current form.
Today, the Irish bouzouki is an important part of the Irish trad scene, most often (though not always) playing accompaniment, mostly a mix of two note chords, basslines, and bits of countermelody, rather than the melody.
Perhaps the best known exponent of the Irish bouzouki is Dónal Lunny, who also created an electric version, known as the e-zouk.
The Irish bouzouki generally has a flat or lightly arched back (like that of a guitar or an Irish, American, or Portuguese style mandolin) in place of stave-built round back of the Greek bouzouki, and unlike the Greek instrument is usually tuned to GDAD or GDAE (an octave below the mandolin).
For all intents and purposes, the modern Irish bouzouki is a member of the mandolin family, and a bouzouki in name only.
However, the Irish bouzouki is distinguished from the somewhat similar-looking octave mandolin in that it has a longer fretboard and characteristic tuning.
Like mandolins, Irish bouzoukis are variously made with flat, carved (arched) and bent tops.
Hardly anyone uses the Greek bouzouki for Irish music today; Alec Finn is the only professional of any consequence to continue in playing one.
The typical scale length of the Irish bouzouki is 22 to 24 inches (550 to 610 mm), although some are as long as 26 inches (660 mm); an instrument in the same tuning with a scale length of 20 inches (500 mm) or less is generally termed an octave mandola (Europe, Ireland, and the UK) or octave mandolin (US and Canada).
The first Irish bouzouki was probably one built by Peter Abnett, an English luthier who continues to build bouzoukis and other mandolin family instruments to this day.
Luthiers Stefan Sobell and Joe Foley have also been major figures in the development of the instrument.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouzouki
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
Here are a couple more:
Irish Bouzouki:
http://banwarth.free.fr/engbouz.htm
Graham McDonal – Mandolins & Bouzoukis:
http://www.mcdonaldstrings.com/zook_article.html
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
I would query Ptarmigan's details slightly; in my humble opinion ANYTHING with a scale length LESS than 660 mm is classified as an octave mandola ( which is a nonsense, they should all be called octave MANDOLINS ); I do have memories of Johnny Moynihan and Andy Irvine turning up at an english folk festival with a couple of re-strung Greek bouzoukis in the late '60's, just pre-Planxty; I haven't yet looked up the other two sources listed by Ptarmy above, but I believe that the first ever instrument that we would now recognise as an Irish 'zouk was built by the english instrument-builder John Bailey, for John Pearse the guitarist/singer and guitar teacher, back in the EARLY '60's, but he had no idea what to do with it at the time !
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by Guernsey Pete
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
To repeat earlier discussions on this forum; also Dave Richardson, of the Boys of the Lough, was another early instigator of a push for a long-necked deeper-toned mandolin substitute, and probably played the first flat-backed model I can recall seeing.
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by Guernsey Pete
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
Aye Pete, I have of course, no idea who contributed that piece for Wikipedia, but I thought it was a useful starting point.
)
I personally don't have sleepless nights worrying over whether my Octave Mandola is one or not & I've never bothered measuring the neck - after all size isn't everything ( ...as I keep telling the wife!
Interesting to hear about this John Bailey fellow - he didn't have anything to do with adding cream to Whisky too did he Pete?
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
I saw Mick Conneely play the Greek bouzouki in at a concert with Noel Hill and Tony Linnane but I suppsose he isn't of any consequence? I have also played with Sean O Loinsig on occasion but I suppsoe he can be ruled out too.
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
Pete, seems Paul Kotapish backs up your John Bailey theory:
"Johnny Moynihan credits the first flatback bouzouki to Irish guitar maker John Bailey, who set about trying to re-create a Greek-style instrument but found it too troublesome to deal with the ribbed back.
His 1963 experiment was a one-off, but Moynihan has played the thing for years, inspiring subsequent builders and players."
http://www.acousticguitar.com/issues/ag89/bouzouki.html
Check out this Bouzouki for only - $3,750:
http://www.bouzouki.com/default.asp?szNav=Products&nProd=47
...& some unusual early Bouzoukis, FROM THE MUSEUM OF MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS PLAKA, ATHENS, on this page:
http://www.bouzouki.org/
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
Yeah kilfarboy "Alec Finn is the only professional of any consequence to continue in playing one." I had a good laugh at that one too!
Perhaps someone should write to Wikipedia & point out this nonsense to them?
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
If you're bothered by tetrachordal bouzoukis - and to be honest who isn't? - then this site should offer balm to the senses: http://dechiotification.rebetiko.org/
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by Bren
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
And, pTarmi, before you write to Wikipedia and correct them, as surely you have time to, perhaps you could give us theSession.orgers a wee sneak preview of who else beside Alec Finn is playing a three-course Greek bouzouki professsionally and consequentially in Irish music at the moment?
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by Bren
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
Okay, I've cut the fourth string on my bouzouki and tore off the two obsolete tuning pegs. What now?
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by Janek
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
Och Bren, too early in the morning for you, is it?
If you'd actually read kilfarboy's post, above, you would see that he has already pointed out two very worthy (in his & my opinion too) contenders for consequential Greek Bouzouki players!
Perhaps there are more, but I think they perhaps deserve a mention.
Please Note:
Excellent album from Mick Conneely(fiddle, Greek Bouzouki), with Niall O Callanain (bouzouki),and Mick Conneely Snr (fiddle).
Mayo based fiddle player, who previously toured with De Danann(1991-1995) and who plays each Wednesday night in Matt Molloy's in Westport.
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/633
Sean O Loinsigh contribution on this excellent album:
http://www.copperplatemailorder.com/newroad.html
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
Right Janek, next, you put down your broken Bouzouki & pick up your Ukrainian Bandurist!
"First mentions of a Ukrainian Bandurist date back to Polish chronicles of 1441.
The classical bandura became very popular among the Ukrainian Cossacks and was often played in the courts of Poland and Russia."
http://home.att.net/~bandura.ca/VMfolkBook/banduras.html
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
Australian National Folk Festival, 2006.Urgent call to organisers that a replacement Bouzouki was needed at one of the main stages because the airlines had brocken the neck of one of the bands instruments and they were due on stage in 15 mins. The person answering the call was Graham McDonald, Bouzouki maker mentioned earlier. He rushed one of his Bouzoukis to the stage, only to find that the band in Question was Rebatiki, a Greek band from Melbourne. They did the rest of their gigs at the festival playing Greek Music on an Irish Bouzouki. Now that's multi-culturalism in action.
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by woops
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
Funnily enough, Ptarm, no further than yesterday I was admiring a nice Bandura in a music shop near where I work. However, after playing a 3 string bouzouki, the number of strings on this one can cause a system shock.
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by Janek
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
I'm of no consequence,but I still play my Greek bouzouki.I own a flat backed Irish one too.Irish bouzouki,isn't that an oxymoron?Donal Lunny said that when he took his flatback to Greece they laughed at it.
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by dafydd
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
Cool! I see it goes back to at least 1460 Janek. Any idea how they are played? Is the technique a bit like for an Autoharp, where you pluck your major notes from the five major strings & strum the other sympathic strings, or ................?
Could only find a group sound clip, which actually includes a tsimbaly, so I’m not complaining, but what does it sound like on its own? ......any links?
http://encarta.msn.com/media_461532180/Traditional_Dance_of_Ukraine.html
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
You are too modest Dafydd! Surely you must be of consequence if Donal Lunny was speaking to you!
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
well, now that we're all cittern comfortably, what about those things that the Corries played. Why didn't they become more popular?
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by Bren
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
Because The Corries played them!
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by woops
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
Ptarm, I must have a bandura tune somewhere in my musicotheque... When I get home I'll search for it and send it over.
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by Janek
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
As to the way you play it, it is played more or less like a harp (although you hold it differently). There are three different types of Bandura - Classical bandura, with 20 to 24 strings (diatonic tuning), Poltavka - at the moment almost totally extinct in Ukraine, with 60 to 65 strings (chromatic), and Bandura Kiyevska - the most modern version, with 12 bass strings and 43 tenor, tuned in 5 octaves. The last one comes in several versions (small, alto, bass and contra-bass).
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by Janek
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
This is a sample of a song accompanied by a bandura:
http://www.umka.com.ua/sounds/koval01/koval01-06.mp3
And this is how it sounds played in modern style by a professional bandurist:
http://www.umka.com.ua/sounds/dzyuba01/dzyuba01-10.mp3
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by Janek
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
Thanks for that. I was wondering what the connection with Irish Bouzouki was, but now I've listened to the mp3 of the bandura, it's bleed'n obvious. Thanks for clearing that up for me. It's so obviously related!
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by woops
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
The history of the modern Irish bouzouki is more complicated than a mere mandolization* of roundback Greek bouzoukis. The design of the early English guitars / flatback metal-stringed citterns were a strong influence too.
*This means the same as mandolification.
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by Dr. Dow
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
Wow Janek, what a sound, thanks for that! I can just imagine what an expert could do with Irish Planxtys on those - but 65 strings to tune ......phew!
I suspect wavedc will probably stick with his Bouzouki.
I, on the other hand, could be tempted!
For anyone interested, here are Roy’s Combolins:
http://www.skerriesmusic.com/
& for more info on them:
http://www.ucfv.bc.ca/cis/franklinp/corries/#COMBOLINS
I can just picture you whipping one of those beauties out at your local session thedon!
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
The instruments the "Corries" played were called "combolins". The reason they "never became popular" is that they made them themselves - [ or had them made for them - not exactly sure about that ], - and there are only two in the world.
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by Kenny
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
Yes Dow, & Graham McDonald looks at some of those Guitar influences on his page, which I linked to above - i.e. Graham McDonald – Mandolins & Bouzoukis:
http://www.mcdonaldstrings.com/zook_article.html
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
Aye Kenny - "The Combolins were designed and made by Roy over a period of time from the late 1960's to the early 1970's and became an inherent part of The Corries' music."
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
Hey Ptarmigan, it's MY job to bring out wierd instruments at sessions, so hands off.
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by woops
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
PS. Is there a picture of a Bandura anywhere? Are they harp-like or Zither like or what? And as for the combolin, what a motherless looking contraption. I want one!
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by woops
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
for anyone interested
http://www.bandura.org/bandura.htm
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by woops
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
"Hey Ptarmigan, it's MY job to bring out wierd instruments at sessions, so hands off." - Hey, nae bother Don, I'll hang onto the franchise for the Northern Helisphere & you keep one for the Southern Hemisphere!
As for what the Bandura looks like, you should check my link above, for some interesting old photos.
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
I wonder if the bandura is related to the Spanish bandurria, a sort of cross between a lute and a small guitar, which is used in the folk music of Aragón for playing jotas.
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by murfbox
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
You mean this little chap murfbox?
The ‘Knutsen Harp Bandurria’
The bandurria is the instrument played by the infamous "Spanish Students," a touring group who took our country by storm in 1880 and ultimately inspired the subsequent Mandolin Orchestra craze.
As the bandurria was considered a musical counterpart to the mandolin, Americans chose to simply use the Neapolitan mandolin (and later flat- or arched-back mandolins) to recreate the sound in mandolin clubs and orchestras.
Even so, the bandurria was well enough known that some American manufacturers made them on a custom or limited basis.
http://www.harpguitars.net/Knutsen/hba1.htm
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
Sorry, I forgot the quotation marks!
Here are a couple of photos:
http://www.harpguitars.net/knutsen_images/hba1compare.jpg
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
Yes, that´s the beast ! Although Knutsen´s one looks as if it could have been designed by Picasso !
The student groups mentioned are called "Tunas". Their members are traditionally drawn from universities that have faculties of law and medicine. They wear 17th century cloaks and are still in demand for events such as weddings. Very traditional Spanish - very "castizo" !
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by murfbox
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
From the 'horse's mouth', Johnny Moynihan told me that he swapped his guitar for a bouzouki while playing as one of the musicians forming part of the entertainment provided by a cruise liner touring the Med in 1963. One of his fellow musicians acquired a bouzouki somewhere on their travels and didn't know what to make of it, so Johnny offered his guitar as exchange. He then messed around with it for a while before hearing Davy Graham's 'Folk Blues and Beyond' LP. The rest is history.
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by MacCruiskeen
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
Glad I got in early on such an interesting discussion.
You guys do yabber while I'm out at work - phew, it was hot down the City Road, glad I only had 4 hours to do today !
Does any London resident know what happened to the shop between the Angel and the Screen on the Green, used to deal in camera bits, guitar bits, amps,etc, all second-hand ? Did they move out, or did they move on to another location, that area just gets more gentrified by the day, all those coffee bars and pizza places, but nowhere for anything interesting.
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by Guernsey Pete
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
Hey Kilfar, if you ever get a chance to see Mick Coneely with his fiddle you'll really see something. He's highly underrated, but still of consequence.
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by Farr
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
Thanks for that story Geoff! 43 years ago, eh! A Dublin friend told me he used to regularly see Johnny cycling around town, no doubt to & from sessions, with all manner of instruments tied to himself & strapped onto the bike.
He played my folk club up here a few years back & he is certainly a character.
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
John Bailey built my guitar in 1964, and he had, among other unusual things, an instrument he called a cittern (bouzouki?) John was fascinated by early stringed instruments, and spent a lot of time, in his tiny shop atached to his house in Wembley, trying to re-create them. He told me about building several instruments just to see how they would turn out, then giving them to John Pearse to see if he could find out how to play them.
# Posted on July 21st 2006 by oldstrings
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
Wavedc asked about the origins of the Irish Bouzouki.
Well, it looks like it’s oldest ancestor dates back to at least 2500 BC.
http://www.guitarsite.com/history7.htm#history7
If you explore that site you'll learn about the 'Hittite' (1500 BC).
Interestingly, next in the lineage dates from 1250 BC & shows a Scotsman in a Kilt playing a Long Necked Lute
If you are not familiar with Kurdish Music, here is a fascinating video clip:
http://members.chello.nl/~s.karim1/
But seriously, you can listen to the Tanbur here:
http://www.dejkam.com/music/iran_traditional/instruments/tanbur/samples/tanbur.mp3
Check out the Tanbur/Pandura here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tambur
Appears it also travelled East & became the Chinese Bouzouki, the 'Pipa', which arrived in China, from Central Asia, around the 2nd Century AD
http://www.liufangmusic.net/samples/mp3/liufang1-05.mp3
# Posted on July 21st 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: origins of Irish bouzouki
Sounds more like a chines banjo!!!!
But it has to be said that the facility on the instrument to bend notes is astounding!
Thanks Ptarmy, I think I'm compelled to do a bit more listening
# Posted on July 23rd 2006 by Shtrum