I have taught myself guitar and mandolin with some success (though a few formal lessons probably wouldn't hurt!). Is it possible to teach yourself to sing? Like the rest of mankind, I seem to sound OK alone in the shower, but not so good anywhere else.
Assuming anyone who's reading this is a reasonable singer, how did you learn? Are there any book recommendations? Standard exercises? How do I get started on this?
Treat your voice like an unfamiliar instrument, the more you practise the easier and better it gets.
I would advise you to find some songs that you like and give it a go learning them. You will have a better idea of your linitations when you do, and dont forget to tape yourself. The mini-disk never lies.........unfortunately!!
If you try to sing a song in a key thats not your's you'll be totally discouraged. You have to discover thru trial and error the keys you are comfortable to sing in . .
I can’t remember when I didn’t sing, so I don’t relate well to getting started, but I’m always interested in improving. I got a few good tips from an audio course called “Born to Sing” and another whose name I can’t remember. Here’s a link to lots of material:
Now that I think about it, I did long ago actually teach somebody to sing. I got him as far as “Bah bah baaaah, bah Barbara Ann”.
I’ve been thinking about taking a few vocal lessons, myself. My dream is to advance from “acquired taste” and ”tolerable in small doses” to “not bad, sing just one more”. A friend and gig-mate who is an excellent singer told me he learned a lot from a few sessions with a vocal coach.
Everyone can sing, some people have better voices than others. If its good voices you want, try opera. As Show waddy says, some people with terrible voices are great singers, and vice-versa.
Find a group of people you feel resonably comfortable with and sing to them. The more you do it the easier it gets and they can tell you what sort of song suits your voice and you can work out what you like to sing and what makes you feel good and what gets a reaction.
And when you've got the confidence go and sing in places that you are not known at all and see what reaction you get there.
Then try workshops at festivals, summer schools etc to develop a wee bit.
And listen to all the singers you can for how they sing and what they sing but I would suggest that once you have learnt a song - don't continue to sing along with a cd but spend time making it your own.
From experience you eventually stop shaking , find you feet and slowing develop and expand and sometimes people even clap, make (Reasonable) requests and pay you ( be it only in guinness and taxi fares). And then at some point you will get the experience when a crowded pub all stop and listen ( to the end of a song). Now that's worth waiting for !
You first have to learn any song eg Irish rover in C the highest note in the song is E as is dirty old town in the key of G the highest note is E now if you are an average baritone like me you will find this a bit hard so the irish rover has to go down to G or A and dirty old town has to go down to E or F. These are just examples of course. There is no reason not to take them up and down keys to suit your range. Another word of advice is not to worry if people can back it on traditional instruments or not, if they cant play out of keys C D G and A thats their problem not yours, also have a capo handy its mandatory when I sing Galtee Mountain Boy in Bb. The first song I learned was Whiskey in the Jar in C then Star of the Co. Down in Em thats a nice easy one. Now I have 100 or so songs commited to memory over the 2 years since I started belting them out. I started on banjo and mandolin and guitar so it was a natural progression I guess Good luck
rowdy noisy sessions are not great places for singing as you strain to be heard and this can lead to sheer frustration. Its amazing what you can do with a microphone and a touch of reverb
Like stated above, pick the right key for your voice, which is often not the standard D or G of session tunes (which I used to be able to sing, but these days I find myself in C, Bflat or F as often as not.
Sing into a tape recorder to listen to yourself--what sounds good in your head may not be the best sound to others.
Breath deep, and sing from your toes, not from your nose (unless you are specifically going for that sean nos style of nasal singing).
Start with songs others can join in on--there is safety in numbers!
One more thing, I note you play guitar. If you choose to accompany yourself, remember that singing takes top priority. A rudimentary accompaniment with good singing is far better than the reverse.
By that I mean that they don't possess even the basic rudiments of singing technique. The have no breath support - which means no volume or volume control, are unable to hit a note in tune, and often don't even know the tunes to the songs. They sing as if they are in a trance. People tend to sing in keys that are convenient to the instrument they are playing and not to their voice so any quality of voice that they might have is lost trying to hit unhittable notes.
Very few people have good singing voices of the operatic kind, but as has been pointed out, good singers don't need to have good voices. They do need breath control, breath support with good diaphragmatic technique, the ability to change dynamics, and -possibly the most important part - the ability to sing with passion. How many times have you heard a song sung with monotonal presentation but you were too polite to not clap? The singer might get the notes right, but there is nothing that draws you into the song.
Of course, I blame the churches for this. No one is being taught how to sing in church anymore the way, say Elvis or Arethea Franklin, were. Now most churches have bland tunes that you can hum along with that are played at the pace of a dirge, slowing down as they wind down. Except for the Welsh, of course, who still sing the national anthem in four part harmony at Rugby games.
If you want to sing, and ITM has a strong vocal component, learn to sing from someone who knows what they are doing. To do otherwise risks your voice and boring others to death. All the reverb in the world will not make you a good singer (although good digital tweaking might <G>)
He’s got a point, Mike has. In my parents’ generation a lot of churches still operated “singing schools,” where they taught basic singing skills, using shape note hymnals. This phenomenon was the source of the Sacred Harp singing tradition. People enjoyed the singing lessons so much that they turned them into all-day parties. Some of these singings have been going on continually for two centuries.
When I was growing up, we were regularly exposed to accessible church songs, folk songs and simple pop songs. We sang in our school classrooms and most of the kids weren’t timid about it. Even on the telly, sitcom actors often sang – and I don’t mean ironically, like Phoebe Buffet.
Gradually, singing shifted from being an easy, unremarkable part of everyday life to being something subject to quality and stylistic standards - best left to specialists. This is crazy. I believe people were meant to sing, dammit!
I probably should have just answered the question that RuebenH posed: "How do I learn to sing?" instead of ranting on like that. The way an adult learns to sing is to take lessons. It doesn't make any difference who teaches you as long as you learn the basics of diaphragmatic breathing, breath control, intonation, along with some musical skills. The purpose is to a) learn to project your voice, b) learn how to project your voice, and c) have the skills to develop some style. If you don't have the basic techniques, you won't be a good singer. While there are plenty of good self-taught singers out there, the majority of "self-taught" singers are awful to listen to because they can't sing. Some talent is required but you can learn the basics fairly quickly.
Get a singing coach and you should do well.
When children learn to sing in church or school, they take to it naturally for the most part. Most children already breathe with their diaphragms and are attracted to music and song. Adults have a lot of bad habits to overcome, but it is not that hard to do. By learning a few basics, you won't sound like a turntable with a bad gear when you sing <G>
Mike may have higher standards than I do for self-taught singers , but he’s right about training. I know several self-taught singers who had some vocal coaching as adults and they all say it helped them considerably. (Why do they keep telling me this? Hmmm…)
Just teasing you a little there, Mike, you have provided some good advice.
And I will tell you, learning to sing as part of a choir (even when you have experience as the guy that keeps the tricky tenor parts going where they need to) doesn't prepare you for singing solo. There are all sorts of voice quality and expressiveness things that come into play when your voice is the only one involved.
Hello Reuben! I've sung all my life, trad, opera etc. My advice to you would be to humm alot, in the car, wherever, gradually limbering up vocal muscles. Make sure your jaw, neck and shoulders are relaxed, no tension. Try sitting up straight or standing and breathe deeply from the bottom of your stomach singing a note as you exhale slowly controlling it with your diaphragm. Then try singing d,r,m,f,s...,f,m,r,d on ma or mo or me thinking abaout a wheel turning joining up all the notes. Any of this make sense? Choose a song to which you can really relate, breathe deeply so that you can carry the phrase and not interrupt the story and enjoy it!
Learning to sing?
Learning to sing?
I have taught myself guitar and mandolin with some success (though a few formal lessons probably wouldn't hurt!). Is it possible to teach yourself to sing? Like the rest of mankind, I seem to sound OK alone in the shower, but not so good anywhere else.
Assuming anyone who's reading this is a reasonable singer, how did you learn? Are there any book recommendations? Standard exercises? How do I get started on this?
Thanks!
# Posted on July 19th 2006 by ReubenH
Re: Learning to sing?
Treat your voice like an unfamiliar instrument, the more you practise the easier and better it gets.
I would advise you to find some songs that you like and give it a go learning them. You will have a better idea of your linitations when you do, and dont forget to tape yourself. The mini-disk never lies.........unfortunately!!
# Posted on July 19th 2006 by blas
Re: Learning to sing?
If you try to sing a song in a key thats not your's you'll be totally discouraged. You have to discover thru trial and error the keys you are comfortable to sing in . .
# Posted on July 19th 2006 by Justintime
Re: Learning to sing?
How do you know you don't sound good outside the shower? Have you tried - and been told by others? or are you just guessing?
Not all good singers have a good voice, and not all people with a good voice can sing well.
# Posted on July 19th 2006 by showaddydadito
Re: Learning to sing?
I can’t remember when I didn’t sing, so I don’t relate well to getting started, but I’m always interested in improving. I got a few good tips from an audio course called “Born to Sing” and another whose name I can’t remember. Here’s a link to lots of material:
http://www.singers.com/instructional.html
# Posted on July 19th 2006 by Bob himself
Re: Learning to sing?
Now that I think about it, I did long ago actually teach somebody to sing. I got him as far as “Bah bah baaaah, bah Barbara Ann”.
I’ve been thinking about taking a few vocal lessons, myself. My dream is to advance from “acquired taste” and ”tolerable in small doses” to “not bad, sing just one more”. A friend and gig-mate who is an excellent singer told me he learned a lot from a few sessions with a vocal coach.
# Posted on July 19th 2006 by Bob himself
Re: Learning to sing?
Everyone can sing, some people have better voices than others. If its good voices you want, try opera. As Show waddy says, some people with terrible voices are great singers, and vice-versa.
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by bodhran bliss
Re: Learning to sing?
Find a group of people you feel resonably comfortable with and sing to them. The more you do it the easier it gets and they can tell you what sort of song suits your voice and you can work out what you like to sing and what makes you feel good and what gets a reaction.
And when you've got the confidence go and sing in places that you are not known at all and see what reaction you get there.
Then try workshops at festivals, summer schools etc to develop a wee bit.
And listen to all the singers you can for how they sing and what they sing but I would suggest that once you have learnt a song - don't continue to sing along with a cd but spend time making it your own.
From experience you eventually stop shaking , find you feet and slowing develop and expand and sometimes people even clap, make (Reasonable) requests and pay you ( be it only in guinness and taxi fares). And then at some point you will get the experience when a crowded pub all stop and listen ( to the end of a song). Now that's worth waiting for !
J
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by jfother
Re: Learning to sing?
Cool, thanks all. I think I'll get down to a music shop and see what can be found in self-training videos.
If Ronan Keating can make a career out of _his_ voice, then anyone can!
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by ReubenH
Re: Learning to sing?
You first have to learn any song eg Irish rover in C the highest note in the song is E as is dirty old town in the key of G the highest note is E now if you are an average baritone like me you will find this a bit hard so the irish rover has to go down to G or A and dirty old town has to go down to E or F. These are just examples of course. There is no reason not to take them up and down keys to suit your range. Another word of advice is not to worry if people can back it on traditional instruments or not, if they cant play out of keys C D G and A thats their problem not yours, also have a capo handy its mandatory when I sing Galtee Mountain Boy in Bb. The first song I learned was Whiskey in the Jar in C then Star of the Co. Down in Em thats a nice easy one. Now I have 100 or so songs commited to memory over the 2 years since I started belting them out. I started on banjo and mandolin and guitar so it was a natural progression I guess Good luck
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by Ripthecalico
Re: Learning to sing?
rowdy noisy sessions are not great places for singing as you strain to be heard and this can lead to sheer frustration. Its amazing what you can do with a microphone and a touch of reverb
# Posted on July 20th 2006 by Ripthecalico
Re: Learning to sing?
Like stated above, pick the right key for your voice, which is often not the standard D or G of session tunes (which I used to be able to sing, but these days I find myself in C, Bflat or F as often as not.
Sing into a tape recorder to listen to yourself--what sounds good in your head may not be the best sound to others.
Breath deep, and sing from your toes, not from your nose (unless you are specifically going for that sean nos style of nasal singing).
Start with songs others can join in on--there is safety in numbers!
# Posted on July 21st 2006 by AlBrown
Re: Learning to sing?
One more thing, I note you play guitar. If you choose to accompany yourself, remember that singing takes top priority. A rudimentary accompaniment with good singing is far better than the reverse.
# Posted on July 21st 2006 by AlBrown
Re: Learning to sing?
Most people can't sing.
By that I mean that they don't possess even the basic rudiments of singing technique. The have no breath support - which means no volume or volume control, are unable to hit a note in tune, and often don't even know the tunes to the songs. They sing as if they are in a trance. People tend to sing in keys that are convenient to the instrument they are playing and not to their voice so any quality of voice that they might have is lost trying to hit unhittable notes.
Very few people have good singing voices of the operatic kind, but as has been pointed out, good singers don't need to have good voices. They do need breath control, breath support with good diaphragmatic technique, the ability to change dynamics, and -possibly the most important part - the ability to sing with passion. How many times have you heard a song sung with monotonal presentation but you were too polite to not clap? The singer might get the notes right, but there is nothing that draws you into the song.
Of course, I blame the churches for this. No one is being taught how to sing in church anymore the way, say Elvis or Arethea Franklin, were. Now most churches have bland tunes that you can hum along with that are played at the pace of a dirge, slowing down as they wind down. Except for the Welsh, of course, who still sing the national anthem in four part harmony at Rugby games.
If you want to sing, and ITM has a strong vocal component, learn to sing from someone who knows what they are doing. To do otherwise risks your voice and boring others to death. All the reverb in the world will not make you a good singer (although good digital tweaking might <G>)
MIke Keyes
http://www.banjosessions.com
# Posted on July 21st 2006 by mikeyes
Re: Learning to sing?
Mike--maybe you shouldn't be so upbeat and rosy about the subject--you will give Reuben the wrong impression, and make him think it is easy to sing!
ps Some people still do learn to sing in church--that is how I learned, and how my son learned (and hopefully how my granddaughter will learn).
# Posted on July 21st 2006 by AlBrown
Re: Learning to sing?
He’s got a point, Mike has. In my parents’ generation a lot of churches still operated “singing schools,” where they taught basic singing skills, using shape note hymnals. This phenomenon was the source of the Sacred Harp singing tradition. People enjoyed the singing lessons so much that they turned them into all-day parties. Some of these singings have been going on continually for two centuries.
When I was growing up, we were regularly exposed to accessible church songs, folk songs and simple pop songs. We sang in our school classrooms and most of the kids weren’t timid about it. Even on the telly, sitcom actors often sang – and I don’t mean ironically, like Phoebe Buffet.
Gradually, singing shifted from being an easy, unremarkable part of everyday life to being something subject to quality and stylistic standards - best left to specialists. This is crazy. I believe people were meant to sing, dammit!
# Posted on July 21st 2006 by Bob himself
Re: Learning to sing?
I probably should have just answered the question that RuebenH posed: "How do I learn to sing?" instead of ranting on like that. The way an adult learns to sing is to take lessons. It doesn't make any difference who teaches you as long as you learn the basics of diaphragmatic breathing, breath control, intonation, along with some musical skills. The purpose is to a) learn to project your voice, b) learn how to project your voice, and c) have the skills to develop some style. If you don't have the basic techniques, you won't be a good singer. While there are plenty of good self-taught singers out there, the majority of "self-taught" singers are awful to listen to because they can't sing. Some talent is required but you can learn the basics fairly quickly.
Get a singing coach and you should do well.
When children learn to sing in church or school, they take to it naturally for the most part. Most children already breathe with their diaphragms and are attracted to music and song. Adults have a lot of bad habits to overcome, but it is not that hard to do. By learning a few basics, you won't sound like a turntable with a bad gear when you sing <G>
Mike Keyes
http://www.banjosessions.com
# Posted on July 21st 2006 by mikeyes
Re: Learning to sing?
Whoops,
That should be "a) Protect your voice" (it is very easy to over use your voice, especially in a noisy environment, and end up like most rock singers.)
MJK
# Posted on July 21st 2006 by mikeyes
Re: Learning to sing?
Mike may have higher standards than I do for self-taught singers
, but he’s right about training. I know several self-taught singers who had some vocal coaching as adults and they all say it helped them considerably. (Why do they keep telling me this? Hmmm…)
# Posted on July 21st 2006 by Bob himself
Re: Learning to sing?
Just teasing you a little there, Mike, you have provided some good advice.
And I will tell you, learning to sing as part of a choir (even when you have experience as the guy that keeps the tricky tenor parts going where they need to) doesn't prepare you for singing solo. There are all sorts of voice quality and expressiveness things that come into play when your voice is the only one involved.
# Posted on July 21st 2006 by AlBrown
Re: Learning to sing?
Hello Reuben! I've sung all my life, trad, opera etc. My advice to you would be to humm alot, in the car, wherever, gradually limbering up vocal muscles. Make sure your jaw, neck and shoulders are relaxed, no tension. Try sitting up straight or standing and breathe deeply from the bottom of your stomach singing a note as you exhale slowly controlling it with your diaphragm. Then try singing d,r,m,f,s...,f,m,r,d on ma or mo or me thinking abaout a wheel turning joining up all the notes. Any of this make sense? Choose a song to which you can really relate, breathe deeply so that you can carry the phrase and not interrupt the story and enjoy it!
# Posted on July 24th 2006 by mairead deiseach