I have just bought a second- hand Rob Armstrong Bouzouki (Thanks for the input, fellas) and now want to learn to play it. I play guitar (standard tuning) concertina and whistle. I’m going for GDAD (good enough for Andy Irvine, good enough for me) I am most interested in the “countermelody with passing chords style”(if I could be so bold.)
I have trawled through the old threads with bouzouki sites etc. but wondered if there was anything fresh! Useful chord charts on Hans Speek’s site, interesting stuff on Coyotebanjo, but nothing free-to-air that approximates a method, as such…? (Something useful I don’t have to pay for would be nice, since I will be in hock for a year to buy this damn instrument- and my wife made me sell my balalaika and art-and -lutherie parlour guitar to make room)
Anyone out there used:
1. "The Irish Bouzouki" by Niall O'Callanain and Tommy Walsh
2. The Zan Mcleod ‘Learn to play the irish bouzouki’ DVD
3. The Gerry McKee CD-Rom?
Several people mention ‘The Planxty DVD’ What its true, amazon-findable name and is it worth getting?
Planxty - Live 2004. I can also endorse this method! My 'zouki guru' (Goosey, you rule!) lent it to me and gave me a lots of help too, sent me flyin' on my way
Didn't have anything like video when I was a lad.
I may be not so great myself, but as there is no tradition of "Irish 'Zouk" playing, I say, why copy others ? Why not work out your own solutions ?
On the other hand, what's the eyebrow trick ?
PS I think the counter-melody-with-passing-chords technique only works for song accompaniment, unless you are in a rehearsed setting, certainly not a session where they are throwing strange tunes at you. Also, PLEASE don't just do Andy Irvine's songs, find and develop your own repertoire.
Bouzouki Method - my tuppence worth and pls don't call it a "zouk"
Hi
Like you I played standard tuning guitar for years before trying bouzouki, and deciding what tuning to use is important (I wasted some time on a tuning that didn't suit) - GDAD sounds good to me, would recommend it. Ths is based on a chord approach to the instrument by the way....
Hans Speek's chords are very useful (a mine of information), in contrast "The Irish Bouzouki" is virtually useless as a tutor (how come it has never been even updated - it only gives the most basic of basic chords, what a waste of a book....!!), I don't know anything about the other tutors. I have the Planxty DVD so must check it out......
I have learned most from listening, playing in sessions and I have got a few tips from other players (John Ryan, Jerry McNamara, Brendan Kelly), but mostly I just make it up as I go along. It's great fun and God bless capos....however I still find key of AModal/minor can be a bitch....
I'm still a much better guitar player (core competency etc.!!) so I mostly use the bouzouki for the odd tune in a session, to break up the monotony of using the guitar for everything.....I adore the sound and would love to be able to play it better, but guitar is my first love and always will be, if I paid more attention to the bouzouki my guitar playing would suffer I think.
Lastly I really don't like the term "zouk" and would like to start a campaign to outlaw its use, would you like your chosen instrument's name to be cauterised in this manner, do you enjoy playing a "ndoli" or a "uita" - thought not!
Guernsey Pete - I disagree I'm afraid! Firstly, if you're in a session I think the countermelody thing is a lovely way to stay sensitive to the tunes and not turn it into a noisefest. Secondly, the best players that I've played with a) know most of the tunes played in sessions (even if they don't also play a melody instrument) and b) if they don't know a tune then they don't back it, or at least they wait until they've heard it a couple of times. Sure what difference is it going to make whether you're playing counter melody or chords if you don't know the tune?! In fact, if you've not a notion of the tune I think it's worse to be playing chords because it's more apparent if you screw up. Even if a tune sounds standard in the A part so you're grand out firing away on your patterns, the B part could have accidentals thrown in or change key alltogether. I know that sometimes you have to play tunes that you don't know (e.g. when I'm playing piano, zouk or guitar - sorry lysaghtm - for a dance with an unrehearsed group) and then I find it's best to be as simple underneath the melody as possible. This means playing around the tonic the first time through (which often sounds as good as countermelody type shtuff) then throwing in more underneath the melody once you know where the tune's going.
I think there’s value in the Gerry McKee CD-ROM. I personally like the Mad for Trad tutorials. Basically they are sets of video clips in which very skillful performers play. You sit at your computer and copy, over & over, 'til you have mastered the tune (to your neighbors’ exasperation, perhaps). Sure, you could just pick tracks to study from your favorite music CDs and learn that way (and you probably should do that, too), but with this series you’re imitating face-to-face learning; you can watch what the artist is doing with his hands.
This particular tutorial is geared to chordal accompaniment. Tunes are presented with alternative sets of chords so you get a feeling for different inversions, playing up the neck while using open strings for drones, etc. There are other helpful features--chord charts, a little theory, and some practical material about different strums and rhythms. It's oriented to GDAE tuning.
I live in Gippsland in Victoria, Australia: I don't think there is another bouzouki in the region! Makes it a bit hard to learn face to face!
I play a few balkan tunes.. Some (but not all!) of the Irvine "East Wind' ( But I do have some otheres in my repoitoire!) Any hints on technique for these? I have been experimenting with string damping so i don't get the big resonant drone sound thing happening on every piece. . avoiding the 'wall of sound' . I tried playing a 12- string guitar but found I was damping like crazy all the time to make it sound tolerable.. I have a similar problem with the Armstrong, partly I think because it is unusuallly loud and resonant.
I thought leqarning closed scales would help too.. Where can I find the closed scales on the net?
I wish to state I only use the term 'zouk out of laziness, and prefer to call mine a "long-necked octave mandolin", as it explains it perfectly to a non-folkie. Especially as I tune it GDae, or if you like, gGdDaaee. Any abbreviation of the above title gratefully received.
As to sessions, at my regular ones I too might know 80%+ of the tunes, in fact I'll be playing them; but a couple of miles further down the road I only will know 5% of them, and I'll be busy chording when I can follow the changes. I go along with the opinion that counter-melody, or harmony if you like, has not been a part of Traditional Irish Music; the guitar and 'zouk have rather taken the part of the more traditional "man driving the piano" behind the tune in a session. Arranged performances, or, if you like, bands, have introduced the counter-melody into their arrangements, but although pulling them out of your hat to umfamiliar tunes is a good trick if you can do it, if you're that good why not play the tune ?
Because you want to accompany to the tune?! If it came down to it when I'm on piano I could always play the tune but how boring would that be? It gives another dimension to a session to have an accompaniment that's sensitive to the tune, rather than that just follows standard patterns and progressions. Makes for musical music, rather than noisy music.
Bouzouki Method??
Bouzouki Method??
Hi Folks,
I have just bought a second- hand Rob Armstrong Bouzouki (Thanks for the input, fellas) and now want to learn to play it. I play guitar (standard tuning) concertina and whistle. I’m going for GDAD (good enough for Andy Irvine, good enough for me) I am most interested in the “countermelody with passing chords style”(if I could be so bold.)
I have trawled through the old threads with bouzouki sites etc. but wondered if there was anything fresh! Useful chord charts on Hans Speek’s site, interesting stuff on Coyotebanjo, but nothing free-to-air that approximates a method, as such…? (Something useful I don’t have to pay for would be nice, since I will be in hock for a year to buy this damn instrument- and my wife made me sell my balalaika and art-and -lutherie parlour guitar to make room)
Anyone out there used:
1. "The Irish Bouzouki" by Niall O'Callanain and Tommy Walsh
2. The Zan Mcleod ‘Learn to play the irish bouzouki’ DVD
3. The Gerry McKee CD-Rom?
Several people mention ‘The Planxty DVD’ What its true, amazon-findable name and is it worth getting?
Tom
# Posted on July 17th 2006 by Tom not the piper's son
Re: Bouzouki Method??
Planxty - Live 2004. I can also endorse this method! My 'zouki guru' (Goosey, you rule!) lent it to me and gave me a lots of help too, sent me flyin' on my way
# Posted on July 17th 2006 by tbag
Re: Bouzouki Method??
Spot on, Tize.
I've also used Zan McLeod's video, which is not bad, especially Zan's "eyebrow trick".
But seriously, it is quite useful for a starter. Shows all the basic techniques and chords.
# Posted on July 17th 2006 by Janek
Re: Bouzouki Method??
Didn't have anything like video when I was a lad.
I may be not so great myself, but as there is no tradition of "Irish 'Zouk" playing, I say, why copy others ? Why not work out your own solutions ?
On the other hand, what's the eyebrow trick ?
PS I think the counter-melody-with-passing-chords technique only works for song accompaniment, unless you are in a rehearsed setting, certainly not a session where they are throwing strange tunes at you. Also, PLEASE don't just do Andy Irvine's songs, find and develop your own repertoire.
# Posted on July 17th 2006 by Guernsey Pete
Bouzouki Method - my tuppence worth and pls don't call it a "zouk"
Hi
Like you I played standard tuning guitar for years before trying bouzouki, and deciding what tuning to use is important (I wasted some time on a tuning that didn't suit) - GDAD sounds good to me, would recommend it. Ths is based on a chord approach to the instrument by the way....
Hans Speek's chords are very useful (a mine of information), in contrast "The Irish Bouzouki" is virtually useless as a tutor (how come it has never been even updated - it only gives the most basic of basic chords, what a waste of a book....!!), I don't know anything about the other tutors. I have the Planxty DVD so must check it out......
I have learned most from listening, playing in sessions and I have got a few tips from other players (John Ryan, Jerry McNamara, Brendan Kelly), but mostly I just make it up as I go along. It's great fun and God bless capos....however I still find key of AModal/minor can be a bitch....
I'm still a much better guitar player (core competency etc.!!) so I mostly use the bouzouki for the odd tune in a session, to break up the monotony of using the guitar for everything.....I adore the sound and would love to be able to play it better, but guitar is my first love and always will be, if I paid more attention to the bouzouki my guitar playing would suffer I think.
Lastly I really don't like the term "zouk" and would like to start a campaign to outlaw its use, would you like your chosen instrument's name to be cauterised in this manner, do you enjoy playing a "ndoli" or a "uita" - thought not!
Best of luck with it, enjoy.......
# Posted on July 17th 2006 by lysaghtm
Re: Bouzouki Method??
Guernsey Pete - I disagree I'm afraid! Firstly, if you're in a session I think the countermelody thing is a lovely way to stay sensitive to the tunes and not turn it into a noisefest. Secondly, the best players that I've played with a) know most of the tunes played in sessions (even if they don't also play a melody instrument) and b) if they don't know a tune then they don't back it, or at least they wait until they've heard it a couple of times. Sure what difference is it going to make whether you're playing counter melody or chords if you don't know the tune?! In fact, if you've not a notion of the tune I think it's worse to be playing chords because it's more apparent if you screw up. Even if a tune sounds standard in the A part so you're grand out firing away on your patterns, the B part could have accidentals thrown in or change key alltogether. I know that sometimes you have to play tunes that you don't know (e.g. when I'm playing piano, zouk or guitar - sorry lysaghtm - for a dance with an unrehearsed group) and then I find it's best to be as simple underneath the melody as possible. This means playing around the tonic the first time through (which often sounds as good as countermelody type shtuff) then throwing in more underneath the melody once you know where the tune's going.
But maybe that's just me that thinks that!
# Posted on July 17th 2006 by tbag
Re: Bouzouki Method??
I think there’s value in the Gerry McKee CD-ROM. I personally like the Mad for Trad tutorials. Basically they are sets of video clips in which very skillful performers play. You sit at your computer and copy, over & over, 'til you have mastered the tune (to your neighbors’ exasperation, perhaps). Sure, you could just pick tracks to study from your favorite music CDs and learn that way (and you probably should do that, too), but with this series you’re imitating face-to-face learning; you can watch what the artist is doing with his hands.
This particular tutorial is geared to chordal accompaniment. Tunes are presented with alternative sets of chords so you get a feeling for different inversions, playing up the neck while using open strings for drones, etc. There are other helpful features--chord charts, a little theory, and some practical material about different strums and rhythms. It's oriented to GDAE tuning.
# Posted on July 17th 2006 by poor scholar
Re: Bouzouki Method??
Thanks Fellas. I'll chase those resources.
I live in Gippsland in Victoria, Australia: I don't think there is another bouzouki in the region! Makes it a bit hard to learn face to face!
I play a few balkan tunes.. Some (but not all!) of the Irvine "East Wind' ( But I do have some otheres in my repoitoire!) Any hints on technique for these? I have been experimenting with string damping so i don't get the big resonant drone sound thing happening on every piece. . avoiding the 'wall of sound' . I tried playing a 12- string guitar but found I was damping like crazy all the time to make it sound tolerable.. I have a similar problem with the Armstrong, partly I think because it is unusuallly loud and resonant.
I thought leqarning closed scales would help too.. Where can I find the closed scales on the net?
Tom
# Posted on July 18th 2006 by Tom not the piper's son
Re: Bouzouki Method??
I wish to state I only use the term 'zouk out of laziness, and prefer to call mine a "long-necked octave mandolin", as it explains it perfectly to a non-folkie. Especially as I tune it GDae, or if you like, gGdDaaee. Any abbreviation of the above title gratefully received.
As to sessions, at my regular ones I too might know 80%+ of the tunes, in fact I'll be playing them; but a couple of miles further down the road I only will know 5% of them, and I'll be busy chording when I can follow the changes. I go along with the opinion that counter-melody, or harmony if you like, has not been a part of Traditional Irish Music; the guitar and 'zouk have rather taken the part of the more traditional "man driving the piano" behind the tune in a session. Arranged performances, or, if you like, bands, have introduced the counter-melody into their arrangements, but although pulling them out of your hat to umfamiliar tunes is a good trick if you can do it, if you're that good why not play the tune ?
# Posted on July 18th 2006 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Bouzouki Method??
"if you're that good why not play the tune"
Because you want to accompany to the tune?! If it came down to it when I'm on piano I could always play the tune but how boring would that be? It gives another dimension to a session to have an accompaniment that's sensitive to the tune, rather than that just follows standard patterns and progressions. Makes for musical music, rather than noisy music.
# Posted on July 19th 2006 by tbag