I have only one Susato, an untunable D. It is not a horrible whistle, but I found it hard to transition between octaves, and did not like the tone, too full and not nearly chiffy enough--doesn't sound like a tin whistle should. It was also loud, which is fine if you want to be the "alpha male" and keep up with the box players when they pull out all the stops. But I like to be part of the unison, not standing out from the crowd--especially given the fact that the whistle is already standing an octave above the crowd.
I know a lot of people like them, but they are not for me.
So what is a good whistle? I bought an untunable D by Oak, just a $10 variety, and it seems to play good enough for me. If I start looking at low D whistles, do you have recommendations?
nofrets,
I have a low D, Viper whistle from Michael Burke. I love it and it has a great tone. The bottom foot is adjustable so you can get comfortable on it. However, I'd like to sell it because my hands are a bit too small and I don't play it much.
If you really want a recorder, buy a recorder. If you want a whistle, don't buy a Susato. A really good player can get around that on their playing style, but in general the Susato sound doesn't appeal to me at all.
i liked the susato, a friend of mine had it. i would never buy one, though, because i dont see the need for a mid range whistle market. the cheapo ones are fine enough to learn on, and some people find them well enough to perform and session on. the top of the range instruments, however, are great all around. i would not spend my money on a mid range instrument, when most of the best tin whistles are around $150 (USD). for most other types of instruments, $500 is the price you pay for an instrument that a child will march in the rain with or put boogers on. that's why i am waiting the extra couple months it takes to save your money to get a real instrument.
my willingess to wait probably is because uncle (the guy playing the recording on burke's main page when it loads) lent me his first burke whistle to tide me over until after my concertina comes in, when i will be able to afford a new aluminum session bore.
what are other people's opinions about the mid-ranged whistle market? i see a need in all other ITM instruments, but have trouble justifying it for whistles. i dont know if this is because i am an elitist, or because i have a whistle to keep me happy for a while.
i am wondering if the middle paragraph of my post was irrelevent. i read it and it seems to disrupt the flow. could anyone help me out? i think maybe i should have just left it out, because i am not talking about burkes or my uncle in the rest of the post. i do like my burke whistle and my uncle, and its so hard to leave out things you like even if they dont work... so should i have swapped it with the final paragraph, or left it out all together?
You might just have been unlucky with the Susato head that came with your set.
I play Susato and through around ten years I have had or tried many of them. I found that they might be quite different in sound quality from one to another, so if you're lucky and get a good one they can be very nice to play. The best thing to do is to try them before you buy, don't buy instruments by post.
Also, most people have problems with Susato because they want to play them as if they were a tin whistle, and this doesn't really work. With Susato more tongued articulation is required, so if you don't use much tonguing you'll be better off with any other tin whistle.
The key to your comment, wormdiet, is that it doesn't appeal to YOU. To some of us, Susatos have the ideal sound.
In regards to the "recorder" comments that always come up with Susatos: A susato does not sound like a recorder. A plastic recorder does not sound like a recorder either -- it sounds like a Susato. I've played real recorders and my Susato does not sound nor respond anything like the recorders I've played in the past. I've always found that to be an utterly ridiculous thing to say.
Odd that the original poster says they're out of tune and squeak. I've played everything from the high E to the low D and all of them have been in tune and didn't squeak.
The problem people have with Susatos I find is that they actually take a lot of control of the embouchure and windway. You can't just blow into it like you would a Generation or Oak and produce a good sound. You have to know what you're doing.
I'm rather new to the forum, so I don't want to break any rules. If you're thinking about selling your Burke Low D, is that something we could discuss? I can give you my email address if this is something that should be taken off-line. Please let me know...Thanks,
I have a few Susatos, and squeeking is not a problem on any of them. I agree that you may have been unlucky with your head. (the whistles' head, not the one between your ears).
This is what you should expect from the average Susato:
1) Louder than the average whistle
2) Requires little breath
3) Very responsive
3) Sounds a bit like a recorder
4) Difficult to switch octaves
5) impossible to reach the lowest hole on the lower whistles (I can't play my A Susato)
I have a few Susatos that I bought from George Kelischek (the maker) when he was just starting in that business. Actually, I'm not sure he was calling them Susato yet. I remember that Grey Larsen was recommending them back then (1970's). I also have a couple that I bought more recently.
They do sound more in the recorder direction than most other whistles. That's neither good nor bad; it just is. They also tend to be louder and require more precise breath control. The upper octave on some of mine - the older ones, I think - is very much louder than the lower. I never play those. I have a low A that's very nice.
Susato sounding like a recorder? Susato is a horrible whistle? You must be joking! It seems some of you haven't learned how to play it. It actually took me a long time to get used to it, but now I love playing my Susato D in sessions. Once it becomes part of your body, it sounds sweeter than any other one.
I purchased the D, C, Bb set a few years ago. I agree with shrog's assesment in general although I would add that the last 3 notes on the upper register take a bit more pushing than most whistles.
Mine play just fine, I think they are great whistles in fact. I, like most whistlers, find the "plastic" sound less appealing than say the chiffyness of my Sindt's or tweaked Generations. But, I think it's worth mentioning that the "plastic" sound I hear is mainly when I'm playing and hearing it. They really don't sound so much like plastic when I'm listening to someone else play.
On my trips to Ireland I noticed that a lot, if not most, of the pub session players play susato whistles. They play them in part because they are louder, but the players I talked to really like them. In the hands of a competent player they sound pretty good indeed.
They also hold up better in he wind than most whistles, which if you've ever played in a gazebo, is a plus.
let me be blunt: in my opinion, susatos are a scourge against irish music. a generation will serve you better, if you spend some time trying bunch of them out. or a feadog brand with the green fipple. and of course there are the higher end like those made by burke, sindt, and copeland.
Are you familier with the Jerry Freeman's "tweaked" whistles. I love my "tweaked" Generation. He tweaks a bunch of the different mass produced whistles. Awesome, I've even thought of selling off my Sindt's and Burkes.
I don't understand the hackles being raised over this discussion. I like to hear different fiddle voices play the music and I like to hear different whistle voices, too. A Susato doesn't sound just like a recorder, but it sounds more like a recorder than a Clarke or a Generation does. But so what? I'm more accustomed to the classic sound of a Generation ( I played for maybe ten years before I ever saw another brand), but a good player can make beautiful music on a good Susato.
Now, stop all this meaningless and fruitless rubbish talk like "Susato is a crap" or "Generations are authentic." It's just as offensive as to comment "Your girlfriend is ugly. Mine *are* all sweeter."
As Paul says, Susato is gradually gaining popularity in Ireland, even among very old-fashioned whistle players also old in age. Fermanagh whistle player Francis Rasdale used to play his old crooked brass whistles, but he was playing a Susato D when I visited Enniskillen this March. You can actually listen to him play his beloved Susato whitle on "Hidden Fermanagh" CD. And yes, Christy Barry always plays nothing but a Susato in sessions. He in fact does in "Late... in the Night" CD with Conor McCarthy and Cyril O'Donoghue. How can you tell it is a plastic one they play? Do they really sound horrible playing a Susato?
I agree. Just because you break up with your girlfriend does not mean that she is not perfectly suited to somebody else. I have a few whistles that I simply don't like or cannot play well, while another member of our session can play them beautifully, and vice versa.
And I never said that the Susato was not a good whistle, and I never said that sounding a bit like a recorder was a bad thing. I just said that it does. I often play my Susato at sessions, but if I want to play a louder whistle, I mostly I play one of my home made ones (which sounds a bit like a Susato).
My only dissapointing Susato is my A whistle. It has a very nice sound, but I keep missing the lowest hole - it's just too far away. Has anybody else had this problem?
I have a couple of tweaked Generations and Clarkes, but I don't think they were worth the extra money. This is not an attack on Jerry Freeman, it is just that the whistles I got do not work for me personally.
I have heard good music played on a Susato, but the players who can do it are few and far between. Slainte - I raise my glass to you, if you have truly discovered the secret to making a Susato whistle sound sweet. (Are you going to Ireland this summer? Where? When?)
I think recorders are coming off rather badly in this discussion. The way a Susie sounds when I play it would be an insult to even the tackiest, plackiest recorder. Furthermore, a good recorder, well played, can be as delightful to the ears as any whistle - just a different jug of carrots, as a concertina is different from a fiddle.
Well, obviously I'm *not* imposing my own very personal opinion on others: I'm just trying to clarify what others really want to say and to warn them not to leave any negative remarks so carelessly. I usually wait for someone to do this, but sometimes I just can't stand impolite and egoistic comments on this board. In short, I'm just doing what "somebody" has to do when nobody does. (In this particular thread, people like Paul and Bob have already posted much more sensible comments than mine, so perhaps I should be quiet.)
I admit my first reaction to a Susato was very negative, but I was immediately attracted by its looks and always heard my first Scottish whistle tutor Mr. Nigel Gatherer play it beautifully as he did his generation whistles. And I vaguely remember Dr. Sean Smyth played a black whistle on the stage with Lunasa when they first visited this country around 7 years ago. I believe it was a Susato D, and he might have also used it to play "The Splendid Isolation" on the band's second album.
So, it actually doesn't really matter who made your whistles or flutes, but how you play them. In my case, I really don't know if I can play my Susato right. I received a few compliments from some well-known musicians who happened to play a Susato D in sessions, but I always take them with a grain of salt. I was in GB and NI this march, and I'll probably be back there next april hopefully to see you, Mr. spoon.
slainte, a whistle is just an inanimate object. if you or anyone else likes to play a susato, then have at it. i just don' t like them. it's just an opinion, take it or leave it.
chef paul, i've heard of the jerry freeman tweaked whistles but i haven't tried any of them. i'm super satisfied with the whistle hardware that i have.
I thought this thread was going to be about a set of tunes by Susato and I thought - what a good idea - we do play some of his tunes in session already.
Wrong again.
I have no problem with other people choosing Susatos--if you want to play something that is more difficult to control, and has kind of a different tone to it, more power to you, as long as you are not using that extra volume to dominate my local session!
Since I play a Clarke, which is a metal tube wrapped around a wooden fipple, made just the way they did back in the early 19th century when tin whistles were invented, I find references to Generation whistles as "traditional" rather amusing. My advice, put the tin back in your tin whistle playing, and give a conical whistle a try!
I referred to the Generation sound as “classic” because back in the 70’s, when so many giants and giants-to-be of ITM were stoking the modern revival, it was about the only whistle in sight. I was aware that real *tin* whistles existed, but they weren’t what was being heard in the new recordings or concerts at the time.
My experience with Generations, by the way, has been that they are not cheap. You have to buy seven or eight to get one good one.
To each his/her own Al. I find the sound of Clarkes to be so extremely breathy that it makes me feel wheezy just listening to it. I prefer whistles that don't take a ton of air (I have a small lung capacity due to asthma) and that have a good amount of resistence when you blow into them. Clarkes are everything I DON'T like to play in a whistle and I've personally never really cared for the tone.
So, if you are really comfortable with your own whistles, just don't speak ill of someone else's. Otherwise, we're going to stab each other!
No, I never ever suggested Susatos are the best in the world, or the Generation is horrible. I mean I love to play a Susato in a rather big session with a piper or two in a somewhat noisy pub. Whenever a quiet player starts a set, I switch to a Dixon's. (I do have common sense like others.) I still keep my Generation but have forgot how to play modestly good music with it. You just can't play any two different brands of whistles in the same way, you know.
I had a Susato D whistle in the drawer for about a year. Last week a lady asked me to play for a wedding to be held in the middle of an old growth forest. The Susato did alright but I kept getting answering calls from the local bird population. . .
it seems to me, slaite, that the author of this thread already fired the first round. he was reporting on his experience with susatos, which was not positive. i was reporting my judgements based on my experience with susatos. what, do we have to be "politically correct" when it comes to expressing our likes or dislikes with regard to brands of tin whistles? Or worry about the break out of violence? come now, gentlemen and gentewomen...we're talking about, um, tin whistles...or plastic whistles, as it may be...
Sean Ryan - wow!!!! - hardly need to say more but .............
Like any instrument you need to learn how to play it. It is NOT difficult to play the Susato quietly, it is NOT difficult to transition between octaves.
Yes - you can push and shove it and some are louder than others - no bad thing in a fleadh session with 20 other musicians say I.
It doe NOT sound like a recorder and the set that I have is pure sweet and delicious - especially the Bb which I LOVE to play in kitchen sessions in my house.
I also play Generation, Cillian O'Brien Improved, Dixon, Syn, Burke, Chieftain, and Shaw.
Each has their unique voice and are suited to doing different things.
Sure Green is better than Yellow - balderdash - merely a matter of opinion, taste, and in the case of the Susato - diaphraghm control!
in my view, it's really not worth it to play in session where the reason you pick the whistle you play is because it is loud and you need it to hear yourself over the din. that's when i get up and go find a pint. does the session really need you at that point? what's the point of fighting to heard?
I rather like my susato low D. However the upper register is a bit squirrely. I much prefer my Cheiftain low D. However I find myself playing less and less whistle these days and much more flute. So I am looking for a good home. red_tiger_49@yahoo.com
Brendan - who are you quoting here? - certainly not me. My Sus can be played quietly and all the way up the top register. If I CHOOSE to play louder - in order to lead a set on the whistle, for example, then the Sus is good for that.
I also happen to like the tone.
And have you been to a quiet Fleadh Ceol? Anyway - get me one while you're at the bar
I hope everyone realizes that there is more teasing than passion in my advocacy for real tin whistles--to each his [or her] own, I always say. I understand that for decades, Generation was the whistle for ITM. And I also admit that the Clarke takes a good bit of air to play, and that the breathy sound is an aquired taste. By the way, I always found that the one Oak whistle I own took less air than my other whistles--does that square with the experience of others?
I've found that the Oak does indeed take less air than other whistles I've played (including my Susato). Mine was the first whistle I had and it was perfect for a time. It was quiet and I could play longer phrases with it. When I opted to find a new whistle I DID want something with a bit more presence (I was not looking for a "loud" whistle, per se, but one that was not so quiet as the Oak -- with the low breath requirements and lack of back pressure, sometimes I wasn't even sure I was playing!), and tried several whistles before I got a Susato. I loved the tone, the feel of it, and the way it played. I did not buy it because it was loud. I bought it because it suited me.
Initial disclaimer: low whistles and high whistles are completely different situations, I'm talking about high whistles.
Yes, there IS a need for a mid priced whistle. For example, Kevin Crawford had one of his "pro" high D whistles stolen while on the road and now plays a Susato high D on the road, although he usually records with a Sindt.
I mean, what do you do when you're far away from home and your instrument gets ripped off or the freakin' airline loses the darn thing? It's a six month wait to get a replacement on most of the really "pro" quality whistles.
Or, as in our case, if your waiting on delivery of a handmade whistle.
On the other hand, we've tried most of the "tinwhistles" that people are defending so passionately, including the "tweaked" ones (which we bought through Elderly Instruments, love those folks. If you buy something from them and don't like it, they will refund your cash or replace it IN A HEART BEAT.)
But I have one thing to say:
"440"
Although we have much affection for our "tinwhistles" and we've tried most of the ones mentioned here, there is NO WAY they will be spot on for pitch night after night.
And ever since string players discovered electronic tuning devices, there is no way to B.S. them into tuning to match a beloved old pennywhistle.
Darn technology....
BTW, I really relate to the crack about spending hundreds of dollars for a cheesy band instrument, it is INDEED a racket. My son just acted in his school production of "The Music Man" and most people don't get the underlying plot that school band instrument programs are a SCAM...
Besides indoctrinating kids to tongue every note to death.... bah, humbug.
In my opinion the Susatos get better the lower they get. I don't like the high ones at all because 1) they don't sound like a whistle to me and 2) their voicing makes them difficult to control. But I have mid Susatos that I really like- a low A and a low G from the early 1980's that are terrific, a current low E that's great, plus a low A flat and F that play very nicely. Best of all is my low C, the older keyless version. It is the most expressive whistle I've ever played. Whenever I do sean nos air solos on it people come up afterward and ask "what it that instrument?" It is far superior to the two Susato low D's I have. Don't know why. The low D's have sharpish upper registers.
I do have a freak high D Susato that I use only when I need maximum volume- it's the loudest high D whistle I've ever heard. Back in the early 1980's I ordered a low D, but when it came it was very flat. I checked it out with an electronic tuner and discovered that it was in A=415!!! Undaunted, I chopped the bottom and carved out all the holes until I had a perfectly in tune, very loud, A=440 whistle. It can be heard over five accordions.
The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
Heya folks.
Just wanted to share a thought.
I few months ago I purchesd what is called
the "Susato INTERCHANGEABLE BODIES in D, C, Bb"
(http://elderly.com/new_instruments/items/SPS.htm - though I didn't buy it directly from them)
This, unfortunately was a bad idea. First of all, the D squeaks on almost every note, and is completely out of tune.
The Bb is horrible, painfully horrible - Once again, it squeaks on every note you play and don't get me started on the high register.
The C, however, is more subtle and is very fun to play, maybe the best thing on this set.
I was wondering if anybody else got to play on this kind of set or similar and has any thoughts to share.
# Posted on June 30th 2006 by thesheep
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
I have only one Susato, an untunable D. It is not a horrible whistle, but I found it hard to transition between octaves, and did not like the tone, too full and not nearly chiffy enough--doesn't sound like a tin whistle should. It was also loud, which is fine if you want to be the "alpha male" and keep up with the box players when they pull out all the stops. But I like to be part of the unison, not standing out from the crowd--especially given the fact that the whistle is already standing an octave above the crowd.
I know a lot of people like them, but they are not for me.
# Posted on June 30th 2006 by AlBrown
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
So what is a good whistle? I bought an untunable D by Oak, just a $10 variety, and it seems to play good enough for me. If I start looking at low D whistles, do you have recommendations?
# Posted on June 30th 2006 by nofrets
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
nofrets,
I have a low D, Viper whistle from Michael Burke. I love it and it has a great tone. The bottom foot is adjustable so you can get comfortable on it. However, I'd like to sell it because my hands are a bit too small and I don't play it much.
# Posted on June 30th 2006 by O'Lehane
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
http://www.burkewhistles.com/ ~ !!!
# Posted on June 30th 2006 by ceolachan
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
If you really want a recorder, buy a recorder. If you want a whistle, don't buy a Susato. A really good player can get around that on their playing style, but in general the Susato sound doesn't appeal to me at all.
# Posted on June 30th 2006 by wormdiet
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
B Lane & Ceolachan,
Thanks for the info about Burke whistles. I've got a birthday coming up... maybe I can drop a few hints to the missus.
Take care!
Larry
# Posted on July 1st 2006 by nofrets
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
i liked the susato, a friend of mine had it. i would never buy one, though, because i dont see the need for a mid range whistle market. the cheapo ones are fine enough to learn on, and some people find them well enough to perform and session on. the top of the range instruments, however, are great all around. i would not spend my money on a mid range instrument, when most of the best tin whistles are around $150 (USD). for most other types of instruments, $500 is the price you pay for an instrument that a child will march in the rain with or put boogers on. that's why i am waiting the extra couple months it takes to save your money to get a real instrument.
my willingess to wait probably is because uncle (the guy playing the recording on burke's main page when it loads) lent me his first burke whistle to tide me over until after my concertina comes in, when i will be able to afford a new aluminum session bore.
what are other people's opinions about the mid-ranged whistle market? i see a need in all other ITM instruments, but have trouble justifying it for whistles. i dont know if this is because i am an elitist, or because i have a whistle to keep me happy for a while.
# Posted on July 1st 2006 by daiv
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
i am wondering if the middle paragraph of my post was irrelevent. i read it and it seems to disrupt the flow. could anyone help me out? i think maybe i should have just left it out, because i am not talking about burkes or my uncle in the rest of the post. i do like my burke whistle and my uncle, and its so hard to leave out things you like even if they dont work... so should i have swapped it with the final paragraph, or left it out all together?
# Posted on July 1st 2006 by daiv
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
Hi thesheep,
You might just have been unlucky with the Susato head that came with your set.
I play Susato and through around ten years I have had or tried many of them. I found that they might be quite different in sound quality from one to another, so if you're lucky and get a good one they can be very nice to play. The best thing to do is to try them before you buy, don't buy instruments by post.
Also, most people have problems with Susato because they want to play them as if they were a tin whistle, and this doesn't really work. With Susato more tongued articulation is required, so if you don't use much tonguing you'll be better off with any other tin whistle.
# Posted on July 1st 2006 by Beheader
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
The key to your comment, wormdiet, is that it doesn't appeal to YOU. To some of us, Susatos have the ideal sound.
In regards to the "recorder" comments that always come up with Susatos: A susato does not sound like a recorder. A plastic recorder does not sound like a recorder either -- it sounds like a Susato. I've played real recorders and my Susato does not sound nor respond anything like the recorders I've played in the past. I've always found that to be an utterly ridiculous thing to say.
Odd that the original poster says they're out of tune and squeak. I've played everything from the high E to the low D and all of them have been in tune and didn't squeak.
The problem people have with Susatos I find is that they actually take a lot of control of the embouchure and windway. You can't just blow into it like you would a Generation or Oak and produce a good sound. You have to know what you're doing.
# Posted on July 1st 2006 by Crysania
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
B Lane,
I'm rather new to the forum, so I don't want to break any rules. If you're thinking about selling your Burke Low D, is that something we could discuss? I can give you my email address if this is something that should be taken off-line. Please let me know...Thanks,
Larry
# Posted on July 1st 2006 by nofrets
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
I have a few Susatos, and squeeking is not a problem on any of them. I agree that you may have been unlucky with your head. (the whistles' head, not the one between your ears).
This is what you should expect from the average Susato:
1) Louder than the average whistle
2) Requires little breath
3) Very responsive
3) Sounds a bit like a recorder
4) Difficult to switch octaves
5) impossible to reach the lowest hole on the lower whistles (I can't play my A Susato)
# Posted on July 1st 2006 by Shrog
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
I have a few Susatos that I bought from George Kelischek (the maker) when he was just starting in that business. Actually, I'm not sure he was calling them Susato yet. I remember that Grey Larsen was recommending them back then (1970's). I also have a couple that I bought more recently.
They do sound more in the recorder direction than most other whistles. That's neither good nor bad; it just is. They also tend to be louder and require more precise breath control. The upper octave on some of mine - the older ones, I think - is very much louder than the lower. I never play those. I have a low A that's very nice.
# Posted on July 1st 2006 by Bob himself
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
Susato sounding like a recorder? Susato is a horrible whistle? You must be joking! It seems some of you haven't learned how to play it. It actually took me a long time to get used to it, but now I love playing my Susato D in sessions. Once it becomes part of your body, it sounds sweeter than any other one.
Watch and listen to West Clare man Christy Barry play a Susato D: http://www.custysmusic.com/mall/CustysTraditionalMusicShop/christy_barry_late_in_the_night.htm
# Posted on July 1st 2006 by slainte
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
Well, actually any instrument would sound sweet once it becomes your own. Just think about your beloved one. (I have none!)
# Posted on July 1st 2006 by slainte
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
I purchased the D, C, Bb set a few years ago. I agree with shrog's assesment in general although I would add that the last 3 notes on the upper register take a bit more pushing than most whistles.
Mine play just fine, I think they are great whistles in fact. I, like most whistlers, find the "plastic" sound less appealing than say the chiffyness of my Sindt's or tweaked Generations. But, I think it's worth mentioning that the "plastic" sound I hear is mainly when I'm playing and hearing it. They really don't sound so much like plastic when I'm listening to someone else play.
On my trips to Ireland I noticed that a lot, if not most, of the pub session players play susato whistles. They play them in part because they are louder, but the players I talked to really like them. In the hands of a competent player they sound pretty good indeed.
They also hold up better in he wind than most whistles, which if you've ever played in a gazebo, is a plus.
Paul
# Posted on July 1st 2006 by Chef Paul
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
let me be blunt: in my opinion, susatos are a scourge against irish music. a generation will serve you better, if you spend some time trying bunch of them out. or a feadog brand with the green fipple. and of course there are the higher end like those made by burke, sindt, and copeland.
step away from the susato...
# Posted on July 1st 2006 by Brendan
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
Oh, don't get me started on the Generations. I've had no kind of luck with them (as well as the Feadog for that matter, but for different reasons).
And I agree with both Bob Himself and Chef Paul, theirs are points I could have added to my list.
# Posted on July 1st 2006 by Shrog
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
Shrog and Brendan
Are you familier with the Jerry Freeman's "tweaked" whistles. I love my "tweaked" Generation. He tweaks a bunch of the different mass produced whistles. Awesome, I've even thought of selling off my Sindt's and Burkes.
Paul
# Posted on July 2nd 2006 by Chef Paul
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
I don't understand the hackles being raised over this discussion. I like to hear different fiddle voices play the music and I like to hear different whistle voices, too. A Susato doesn't sound just like a recorder, but it sounds more like a recorder than a Clarke or a Generation does. But so what? I'm more accustomed to the classic sound of a Generation ( I played for maybe ten years before I ever saw another brand), but a good player can make beautiful music on a good Susato.
# Posted on July 2nd 2006 by Bob himself
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
Now, stop all this meaningless and fruitless rubbish talk like "Susato is a crap" or "Generations are authentic." It's just as offensive as to comment "Your girlfriend is ugly. Mine *are* all sweeter."
As Paul says, Susato is gradually gaining popularity in Ireland, even among very old-fashioned whistle players also old in age. Fermanagh whistle player Francis Rasdale used to play his old crooked brass whistles, but he was playing a Susato D when I visited Enniskillen this March. You can actually listen to him play his beloved Susato whitle on "Hidden Fermanagh" CD. And yes, Christy Barry always plays nothing but a Susato in sessions. He in fact does in "Late... in the Night" CD with Conor McCarthy and Cyril O'Donoghue. How can you tell it is a plastic one they play? Do they really sound horrible playing a Susato?
# Posted on July 2nd 2006 by slainte
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
Cross-posting, Bob! Nice to know we have similar opinions.
# Posted on July 2nd 2006 by slainte
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
Are there any other musicians who have played a Susato in their recordings?
# Posted on July 2nd 2006 by slainte
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
I agree. Just because you break up with your girlfriend does not mean that she is not perfectly suited to somebody else.
I have a few whistles that I simply don't like or cannot play well, while another member of our session can play them beautifully, and vice versa.
And I never said that the Susato was not a good whistle, and I never said that sounding a bit like a recorder was a bad thing. I just said that it does. I often play my Susato at sessions, but if I want to play a louder whistle, I mostly I play one of my home made ones (which sounds a bit like a Susato).
My only dissapointing Susato is my A whistle. It has a very nice sound, but I keep missing the lowest hole - it's just too far away. Has anybody else had this problem?
I have a couple of tweaked Generations and Clarkes, but I don't think they were worth the extra money. This is not an attack on Jerry Freeman, it is just that the whistles I got do not work for me personally.
# Posted on July 2nd 2006 by Shrog
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
I have heard good music played on a Susato, but the players who can do it are few and far between. Slainte - I raise my glass to you, if you have truly discovered the secret to making a Susato whistle sound sweet. (Are you going to Ireland this summer? Where? When?)
I think recorders are coming off rather badly in this discussion. The way a Susie sounds when I play it would be an insult to even the tackiest, plackiest recorder. Furthermore, a good recorder, well played, can be as delightful to the ears as any whistle - just a different jug of carrots, as a concertina is different from a fiddle.
# Posted on July 2nd 2006 by ragaman
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
Well, obviously I'm *not* imposing my own very personal opinion on others: I'm just trying to clarify what others really want to say and to warn them not to leave any negative remarks so carelessly. I usually wait for someone to do this, but sometimes I just can't stand impolite and egoistic comments on this board. In short, I'm just doing what "somebody" has to do when nobody does. (In this particular thread, people like Paul and Bob have already posted much more sensible comments than mine, so perhaps I should be quiet.)
I admit my first reaction to a Susato was very negative, but I was immediately attracted by its looks and always heard my first Scottish whistle tutor Mr. Nigel Gatherer play it beautifully as he did his generation whistles. And I vaguely remember Dr. Sean Smyth played a black whistle on the stage with Lunasa when they first visited this country around 7 years ago. I believe it was a Susato D, and he might have also used it to play "The Splendid Isolation" on the band's second album.
So, it actually doesn't really matter who made your whistles or flutes, but how you play them. In my case, I really don't know if I can play my Susato right. I received a few compliments from some well-known musicians who happened to play a Susato D in sessions, but I always take them with a grain of salt. I was in GB and NI this march, and I'll probably be back there next april hopefully to see you, Mr. spoon.
# Posted on July 2nd 2006 by slainte
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
slainte, a whistle is just an inanimate object. if you or anyone else likes to play a susato, then have at it. i just don' t like them. it's just an opinion, take it or leave it.
chef paul, i've heard of the jerry freeman tweaked whistles but i haven't tried any of them. i'm super satisfied with the whistle hardware that i have.
# Posted on July 2nd 2006 by Brendan
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
Are there any other musicians who have played a Susato in their recordings?
# Posted on July 2nd 2006 by slainte
http://www.kerrywhistles.com/movies/Lunasa_Tim_Edey_2005a.wmv
The above link should take you to a video of somone (Kevin Crawford?) playing a Susato and sounding quite good.
-Bret
# Posted on July 3rd 2006 by bretton
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
Nice video.
What is the tune he is playing?
# Posted on July 3rd 2006 by swisspiper
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
I thought this thread was going to be about a set of tunes by Susato and I thought - what a good idea - we do play some of his tunes in session already.
Wrong again.
# Posted on July 3rd 2006 by geoffwright
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
I have no problem with other people choosing Susatos--if you want to play something that is more difficult to control, and has kind of a different tone to it, more power to you, as long as you are not using that extra volume to dominate my local session!
Since I play a Clarke, which is a metal tube wrapped around a wooden fipple, made just the way they did back in the early 19th century when tin whistles were invented, I find references to Generation whistles as "traditional" rather amusing. My advice, put the tin back in your tin whistle playing, and give a conical whistle a try!
# Posted on July 3rd 2006 by AlBrown
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
I referred to the Generation sound as “classic” because back in the 70’s, when so many giants and giants-to-be of ITM were stoking the modern revival, it was about the only whistle in sight. I was aware that real *tin* whistles existed, but they weren’t what was being heard in the new recordings or concerts at the time.
My experience with Generations, by the way, has been that they are not cheap. You have to buy seven or eight to get one good one.
# Posted on July 3rd 2006 by Bob himself
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
To each his/her own Al. I find the sound of Clarkes to be so extremely breathy that it makes me feel wheezy just listening to it. I prefer whistles that don't take a ton of air (I have a small lung capacity due to asthma) and that have a good amount of resistence when you blow into them. Clarkes are everything I DON'T like to play in a whistle and I've personally never really cared for the tone.
# Posted on July 3rd 2006 by Crysania
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
So, if you are really comfortable with your own whistles, just don't speak ill of someone else's. Otherwise, we're going to stab each other!
No, I never ever suggested Susatos are the best in the world, or the Generation is horrible. I mean I love to play a Susato in a rather big session with a piper or two in a somewhat noisy pub. Whenever a quiet player starts a set, I switch to a Dixon's. (I do have common sense like others.) I still keep my Generation but have forgot how to play modestly good music with it. You just can't play any two different brands of whistles in the same way, you know.
# Posted on July 3rd 2006 by slainte
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
"Are there any other musicians who have played a Susato in their recordings?"
I suspect Grey Larsen has done it, since he was a big promoter of Susatos when they came out.
# Posted on July 3rd 2006 by Bob himself
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
I had a Susato D whistle in the drawer for about a year. Last week a lady asked me to play for a wedding to be held in the middle of an old growth forest. The Susato did alright but I kept getting answering calls from the local bird population. . .
# Posted on July 3rd 2006 by jrathbun
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
it seems to me, slaite, that the author of this thread already fired the first round. he was reporting on his experience with susatos, which was not positive. i was reporting my judgements based on my experience with susatos. what, do we have to be "politically correct" when it comes to expressing our likes or dislikes with regard to brands of tin whistles? Or worry about the break out of violence? come now, gentlemen and gentewomen...we're talking about, um, tin whistles...or plastic whistles, as it may be...
# Posted on July 3rd 2006 by Brendan
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
Anything can be a weapon, even something made of plastic!
# Posted on July 4th 2006 by slainte
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
Sean Ryan - wow!!!! - hardly need to say more but .............
Like any instrument you need to learn how to play it. It is NOT difficult to play the Susato quietly, it is NOT difficult to transition between octaves.
Yes - you can push and shove it and some are louder than others - no bad thing in a fleadh session with 20 other musicians say I.
It doe NOT sound like a recorder and the set that I have is pure sweet and delicious - especially the Bb which I LOVE to play in kitchen sessions in my house.
I also play Generation, Cillian O'Brien Improved, Dixon, Syn, Burke, Chieftain, and Shaw.
Each has their unique voice and are suited to doing different things.
Sure Green is better than Yellow - balderdash - merely a matter of opinion, taste, and in the case of the Susato - diaphraghm control!
# Posted on July 4th 2006 by breandan
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
in my view, it's really not worth it to play in session where the reason you pick the whistle you play is because it is loud and you need it to hear yourself over the din. that's when i get up and go find a pint. does the session really need you at that point? what's the point of fighting to heard?
# Posted on July 4th 2006 by Brendan
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
I rather like my susato low D. However the upper register is a bit squirrely. I much prefer my Cheiftain low D. However I find myself playing less and less whistle these days and much more flute. So I am looking for a good home. red_tiger_49@yahoo.com
# Posted on July 4th 2006 by red_tiger
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
Brendan - who are you quoting here? - certainly not me. My Sus can be played quietly and all the way up the top register. If I CHOOSE to play louder - in order to lead a set on the whistle, for example, then the Sus is good for that.
I also happen to like the tone.
And have you been to a quiet Fleadh Ceol? Anyway - get me one while you're at the bar
# Posted on July 4th 2006 by breandan
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
I hope everyone realizes that there is more teasing than passion in my advocacy for real tin whistles--to each his [or her] own, I always say. I understand that for decades, Generation was the whistle for ITM. And I also admit that the Clarke takes a good bit of air to play, and that the breathy sound is an aquired taste. By the way, I always found that the one Oak whistle I own took less air than my other whistles--does that square with the experience of others?
# Posted on July 4th 2006 by AlBrown
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
I've found that the Oak does indeed take less air than other whistles I've played (including my Susato). Mine was the first whistle I had and it was perfect for a time. It was quiet and I could play longer phrases with it. When I opted to find a new whistle I DID want something with a bit more presence (I was not looking for a "loud" whistle, per se, but one that was not so quiet as the Oak -- with the low breath requirements and lack of back pressure, sometimes I wasn't even sure I was playing!), and tried several whistles before I got a Susato. I loved the tone, the feel of it, and the way it played. I did not buy it because it was loud. I bought it because it suited me.
# Posted on July 5th 2006 by Crysania
There IS a need for mid-priced and Susatos are OK
Initial disclaimer: low whistles and high whistles are completely different situations, I'm talking about high whistles.
Yes, there IS a need for a mid priced whistle. For example, Kevin Crawford had one of his "pro" high D whistles stolen while on the road and now plays a Susato high D on the road, although he usually records with a Sindt.
I mean, what do you do when you're far away from home and your instrument gets ripped off or the freakin' airline loses the darn thing? It's a six month wait to get a replacement on most of the really "pro" quality whistles.
Or, as in our case, if your waiting on delivery of a handmade whistle.
On the other hand, we've tried most of the "tinwhistles" that people are defending so passionately, including the "tweaked" ones (which we bought through Elderly Instruments, love those folks. If you buy something from them and don't like it, they will refund your cash or replace it IN A HEART BEAT.)
But I have one thing to say:
"440"
Although we have much affection for our "tinwhistles" and we've tried most of the ones mentioned here, there is NO WAY they will be spot on for pitch night after night.
And ever since string players discovered electronic tuning devices, there is no way to B.S. them into tuning to match a beloved old pennywhistle.
Darn technology....
BTW, I really relate to the crack about spending hundreds of dollars for a cheesy band instrument, it is INDEED a racket. My son just acted in his school production of "The Music Man" and most people don't get the underlying plot that school band instrument programs are a SCAM...
Besides indoctrinating kids to tongue every note to death.... bah, humbug.
# Posted on April 11th 2007 by Earl from Ohio
Re: The Susato Set - What a bad idea.
In my opinion the Susatos get better the lower they get. I don't like the high ones at all because 1) they don't sound like a whistle to me and 2) their voicing makes them difficult to control. But I have mid Susatos that I really like- a low A and a low G from the early 1980's that are terrific, a current low E that's great, plus a low A flat and F that play very nicely. Best of all is my low C, the older keyless version. It is the most expressive whistle I've ever played. Whenever I do sean nos air solos on it people come up afterward and ask "what it that instrument?" It is far superior to the two Susato low D's I have. Don't know why. The low D's have sharpish upper registers.
I do have a freak high D Susato that I use only when I need maximum volume- it's the loudest high D whistle I've ever heard. Back in the early 1980's I ordered a low D, but when it came it was very flat. I checked it out with an electronic tuner and discovered that it was in A=415!!! Undaunted, I chopped the bottom and carved out all the holes until I had a perfectly in tune, very loud, A=440 whistle. It can be heard over five accordions.
# Posted on June 13th 2007 by Richard D Cook