Hi, I've finally joined the technological world and bought a small MP3 player which I discover can also take a line-in from a small microphone. I see this as a great chance to turbo-charge learning tunes from sessions (especially since MP3 files can be slowed down on a computer).
So - I was wondering if people might be interested in discussing this relatively new trend in session behaviour. I am personally interested in finding out 1) if people could recommend a good small and not too expensive microphone, and 2) what the general consensus is on the etiquette of recording at a session (since I've recently moved to a new city/session, and - for the first time in my life - discovered how unpleasantly traditional some tradionalists can be).
I often record local session with a small inexpensive mp3 player (a Buslink, abut $50, 256BM) and use the built in voice recorder. The quality is adequate, but (not really any worse than the Sony Walkman tape player/recorder w/ built-in mic that I used to use). But I think if you can get better quality with a real mic, that it would make listening back a much more pleasurable experience.
There are a few players that regularly record sessions here; they are accomplished players too. I usually ask first, but after a while, since it seems so accepted, and the small devices are so unobtrusive, I stopped asking. But the best ettiquette, odcourse, is to ask first, and be prepared to accept the answer graciously.
Now, if I could only get my arse in gear and get software that would allow me to snip out a single tune from a 3 hour session recording, I'd be in business....
"and get software that would allow me to snip out a single tune from a 3 hour session recording...."
You need Audacity ...and it's free!!! It will let you cut and paste from recordings at will. I use it to eliminate the chatter and isolate tunes that I've recorded during lessons and sessions. You can even divide up the tunes in a set to learn them one at at time, slow them down, adjust the pitch etc. etc. It's a great program.
Dan ,which MP3 player and ext mic are you using? I have a small mp3 with built in mic ( teleadapt minimp3) but the recordings have a buzzing background which diminishes at higher freq recordings but never seems to disappear. Any advice?
The biggest problem with MP3 recorders is that 99% of them that have an external input are meant for a "line-level" source such as a CD player - not a mic. That means that to use an external mic, you'll need to add an external preamp between the mic and the recorder's input. Without that, your recordings will be extremely faint if at all audible. The only exceptions that I know of are the iRiver ifp-7xx series (flash memory based) and the iRiver H-series (hard drive based - less durable). Both of these models had built-in preamps for use with external mics. Sadly, both of these are out of production. Here's some good info: http://www.misticriver.net/showthread.php?t=4980
The other option worth looking into are the various digital voice recorders made by Olympus and Panasonic and probably others. The really cheap ones won't be much good but the ones that have an input jack for an external mic and that have the ability to sample at 44.1kHz (such as this one: http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_section/product.asp?product=1195&fl=4 ) will probably produce very decent recording quality.
The better and more expensive options are the devices designed for exactly this purpose - mobile field recording of music. Be prepared to pay $$$ for these:
I have an iPod and I'm looking at this little stereo recorder from Belkin to record when I'm at a lesson with my fiddle teacher. I'm kind of holding back to see some feedback. I haven't seen it yet. If it is decent, then I can load the tunes directly into my Mac and use the ASD, which has been tremendously helpful in learning tunes.
I never used a microphone with mine, never needed to, so I can't help you there. As I travel I'm learning how much etiquette differs from place to place...so I would think that it would really depend on where you are. I know that here we usually have a lot of people with recorders out at a time, and it's been that way everywhere else I have been thusfar. I would recommend asking your fellow musicians before you do it, if only to cover your bases. I would think it would be fine.
I've got a little generic 1GB MP3 player and while the quality is not up to preofessional by any stretch, it can be very listenable at times. It has an internal mic.
I also have an Nomad Zean - which I purchased a wired remote for. The remote contains a mic and I have to say the quality is surprisingly good.
A problem here though... in sessions there can be so many instruments that the poor little mic and processors are somwhat overwhelmed by the 'wall of sound' and it may become a little unclear. Thems the breaks really when you are using something beyond its capacity. However if there are just a few instruments, these simple systems seem really good.
If nobody's mentioned it yet, you can also get a Sony or Sharp minidisk player. With an external mic, the quality can be very good. I grabbed an impromptu session at a summer camp last year and burned the whole thing to CD for listening in the car.
The MP3 player I bought was a Samsung YP-MT6Z. It was among the more highly reviewed models, but I couldn't find one new anywhere. I bought a factory reconditioned model and find that there's something wrong with the internal mic - it keeps thinking that it is plugged into a line-in jack and therefore won't switch to the internal mic. Hopefully Samsung will be good sports about fixing/replacing it (It sitll has a 90 day warranty).
As for external mike - well, from reading stuff here, it looks like the line-in option might require a pre-amped microphone, which may be tricky to get. I'll look around and let you know what I decide. However, I was wondering if a number of the microphones that you can buy for computers might do a reasonable job, and might be configured for a line-in input. We'll see. Quality is not essential in a recording (but would be nice): basically I just need this as a learning aid.
Just updating my previous post after doing a little research. First up - I didn't do my homework properly with my MP3 player. Things would have been much easier if I bought a unit with a 'MIC' input setting, instead of just 'Line-In'. These units have internal pre-amplification, but this feature is getting harder and harder to find on personal MP3 players (I guess the manufacturers think 'small' is better than 'functional').
To record with a microphone on a line-in channel you need pre-amplification (because mikes generally don't have a strong enough signals). I've been trying to find small self-powered microphones with built-in pre-amplification. So far one of the few I've been able to find (at a cost of about $100) is:
MP3 Recorders for Learning Session Tunes
MP3 Recorders for Learning Session Tunes
Hi, I've finally joined the technological world and bought a small MP3 player which I discover can also take a line-in from a small microphone. I see this as a great chance to turbo-charge learning tunes from sessions (especially since MP3 files can be slowed down on a computer).
So - I was wondering if people might be interested in discussing this relatively new trend in session behaviour. I am personally interested in finding out 1) if people could recommend a good small and not too expensive microphone, and 2) what the general consensus is on the etiquette of recording at a session (since I've recently moved to a new city/session, and - for the first time in my life - discovered how unpleasantly traditional some tradionalists can be).
# Posted on June 29th 2006 by dan
Re: MP3 Recorders for Learning Session Tunes
Dan,
I often record local session with a small inexpensive mp3 player (a Buslink, abut $50, 256BM) and use the built in voice recorder. The quality is adequate, but (not really any worse than the Sony Walkman tape player/recorder w/ built-in mic that I used to use). But I think if you can get better quality with a real mic, that it would make listening back a much more pleasurable experience.
There are a few players that regularly record sessions here; they are accomplished players too. I usually ask first, but after a while, since it seems so accepted, and the small devices are so unobtrusive, I stopped asking. But the best ettiquette, odcourse, is to ask first, and be prepared to accept the answer graciously.
Now, if I could only get my arse in gear and get software that would allow me to snip out a single tune from a 3 hour session recording, I'd be in business....
# Posted on June 29th 2006 by Keith Dubinsky
Re: MP3 Recorders for Learning Session Tunes
People at a pretty traditional session politely told me to get an mp3 player, so I'd actually learn some of the tunes!
# Posted on June 29th 2006 by trevagus
Re: MP3 Recorders for Learning Session Tunes
"and get software that would allow me to snip out a single tune from a 3 hour session recording...."
You need Audacity ...and it's free!!! It will let you cut and paste from recordings at will. I use it to eliminate the chatter and isolate tunes that I've recorded during lessons and sessions. You can even divide up the tunes in a set to learn them one at at time, slow them down, adjust the pitch etc. etc. It's a great program.
# Posted on June 29th 2006 by KateG
Re: MP3 Recorders for Learning Session Tunes
Dan ,which MP3 player and ext mic are you using? I have a small mp3 with built in mic ( teleadapt minimp3) but the recordings have a buzzing background which diminishes at higher freq recordings but never seems to disappear. Any advice?
# Posted on June 29th 2006 by banjoian
Re: MP3 Recorders for Learning Session Tunes
The biggest problem with MP3 recorders is that 99% of them that have an external input are meant for a "line-level" source such as a CD player - not a mic. That means that to use an external mic, you'll need to add an external preamp between the mic and the recorder's input. Without that, your recordings will be extremely faint if at all audible. The only exceptions that I know of are the iRiver ifp-7xx series (flash memory based) and the iRiver H-series (hard drive based - less durable). Both of these models had built-in preamps for use with external mics. Sadly, both of these are out of production. Here's some good info: http://www.misticriver.net/showthread.php?t=4980
The other option worth looking into are the various digital voice recorders made by Olympus and Panasonic and probably others. The really cheap ones won't be much good but the ones that have an input jack for an external mic and that have the ability to sample at 44.1kHz (such as this one: http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_section/product.asp?product=1195&fl=4 ) will probably produce very decent recording quality.
The better and more expensive options are the devices designed for exactly this purpose - mobile field recording of music. Be prepared to pay $$$ for these:
http://www.m-audio.ca/products/en_ca/MicroTrack2496-main.html
http://www.rolandus.com/products/productlist.aspx?ParentId=114
http://www.zzounds.com/item--MARPMD660
With any of the above solutions, the better the mic, the better the recording. Here's some to check out:
http://www.visivoxtechnologies.com/main.htm
http://www.core-sound.com/default.php
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category/110/mics
# Posted on June 29th 2006 by snapper
Re: MP3 Recorders for Learning Session Tunes
Thanks for the tip Kate - I'll check that out!
# Posted on June 30th 2006 by Keith Dubinsky
Re: MP3 Recorders for Learning Session Tunes
I have an iPod and I'm looking at this little stereo recorder from Belkin to record when I'm at a lesson with my fiddle teacher. I'm kind of holding back to see some feedback. I haven't seen it yet. If it is decent, then I can load the tunes directly into my Mac and use the ASD, which has been tremendously helpful in learning tunes.
# Posted on June 30th 2006 by Gaelic writer
Re: MP3 Recorders for Learning Session Tunes
Forgot the link. Loooong day.
http://www.belkin.com/pressroom/releases/uploads/06_01_06TuneTalkStereo.html
# Posted on June 30th 2006 by Gaelic writer
Re: MP3 Recorders for Learning Session Tunes
I never used a microphone with mine, never needed to, so I can't help you there. As I travel I'm learning how much etiquette differs from place to place...so I would think that it would really depend on where you are. I know that here we usually have a lot of people with recorders out at a time, and it's been that way everywhere else I have been thusfar. I would recommend asking your fellow musicians before you do it, if only to cover your bases. I would think it would be fine.
# Posted on June 30th 2006 by Tipperaryharper
Re: MP3 Recorders for Learning Session Tunes
I've got a little generic 1GB MP3 player and while the quality is not up to preofessional by any stretch, it can be very listenable at times. It has an internal mic.
I also have an Nomad Zean - which I purchased a wired remote for. The remote contains a mic and I have to say the quality is surprisingly good.
A problem here though... in sessions there can be so many instruments that the poor little mic and processors are somwhat overwhelmed by the 'wall of sound' and it may become a little unclear. Thems the breaks really when you are using something beyond its capacity. However if there are just a few instruments, these simple systems seem really good.
Good luck
nathan
# Posted on June 30th 2006 by Brown Creeper
Re: MP3 Recorders for Learning Session Tunes
If nobody's mentioned it yet, you can also get a Sony or Sharp minidisk player. With an external mic, the quality can be very good. I grabbed an impromptu session at a summer camp last year and burned the whole thing to CD for listening in the car.
# Posted on June 30th 2006 by wormdiet
Re: MP3 Recorders for Learning Session Tunes
Hi Banjoian,
The MP3 player I bought was a Samsung YP-MT6Z. It was among the more highly reviewed models, but I couldn't find one new anywhere. I bought a factory reconditioned model and find that there's something wrong with the internal mic - it keeps thinking that it is plugged into a line-in jack and therefore won't switch to the internal mic. Hopefully Samsung will be good sports about fixing/replacing it (It sitll has a 90 day warranty).
As for external mike - well, from reading stuff here, it looks like the line-in option might require a pre-amped microphone, which may be tricky to get. I'll look around and let you know what I decide. However, I was wondering if a number of the microphones that you can buy for computers might do a reasonable job, and might be configured for a line-in input. We'll see. Quality is not essential in a recording (but would be nice): basically I just need this as a learning aid.
Thanks, everyone, for sharing your wisdom!
# Posted on July 1st 2006 by dan
Re: MP3 Recorders for Learning Session Tunes
Just updating my previous post after doing a little research. First up - I didn't do my homework properly with my MP3 player. Things would have been much easier if I bought a unit with a 'MIC' input setting, instead of just 'Line-In'. These units have internal pre-amplification, but this feature is getting harder and harder to find on personal MP3 players (I guess the manufacturers think 'small' is better than 'functional').
To record with a microphone on a line-in channel you need pre-amplification (because mikes generally don't have a strong enough signals). I've been trying to find small self-powered microphones with built-in pre-amplification. So far one of the few I've been able to find (at a cost of about $100) is:
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-BOOSTER-1
Some companies make small external pre-amps that you can then plug regular mini microphones into. An example is:
http://www.visivoxtechnologies.com/products.htm#
There might be other options out there - I'm far from being an expert in this. If anyone else has any suggestions, I'm open to hear them!
Cheers, Dan
# Posted on July 2nd 2006 by dan