Hey folks, I've just got a few questions for any concertina players out there. I play Trad. fiddle, but have always enjoyed the concertina and would really like to learn to play it. What should I start out playing? Being a fiddle player, I know the difference between the good and the BAD fiddles and their sounds and am very weary and picky when looking to buy. I have always been drawn to the GOOD quality antique or vintage fiddles. Although, I know there are old fiddles that sound like crap and are made like it too. Usually the number one thing I would avoid when buying a fiddle is to NEVER buy some of these new fiddles and obviously the beginner ones (unless you spend a lot on a nice new hand made instrument, but even then, I really try to avoid that). I just think fiddles with age have more to offer in a way. And I like to think they have a history behind them! I am assuming that this is the case when looking for concertinas. Am I correct? SO, my other questions... How can I find good quality concertinas that are not new, but worth buying and not with a hefty price tag? What is the usual price of a nice one?(in US dollars please!) I look at e-bay quite a bit and see what looks to me like nice older ones, but they all look different. Are there different versions? Also, what exactly do you listen for in one? Are they all always going to be made in the same key or different? And if different, can you change the keys? As you can tell I don't know very much about this instrument, but would love to know more. When I find a nice one, I would love to find someone to teach me a few things and get me started. Basically, I just want to know what I should be looking for when browsing for these instruments. THANKS FOR ANY HELP IN ADVANCE!
Re: Concertina players! I need info, and some help!
you can buy new concertinas. old ones are good too. the pros and cons are discussed in this thread: here is a link to a discussion about this recently. it links directly to my post. http://thesession.org/discussions/display/10390/comments#comment215476 . it links directly to my post, where i talk mostly about new concertinas, but someone else before me alluded to a guy who sells vintage concertinas.
if you want to play irish music, your best bet is to get an anglo. i personally have an itching to buy an english concertina, but i have 2 anglo concertinas and the way so i'm all set for new instruments for now. the reason it is best to get an anglo is because thats what most of the irish players are playing. however, if you can manage to try both types, then you can make your own decision. just be aware that you will probably have to figure out how to play irish music by yourself if you choose english.
anglo concertinas come in different keys. most irish players get C/G concertinas. that is the best concertina for session playing. english concertinas as far as i know come in ranges, instead of pitches. i cant be too much help in that department.
as far as ebay, stay away from it. the only deals in the concertina world are "my vintage concertina cost me $3,000 instead of $5,000." the cheapeset i would go for a concertina is a stagi from the buttonbox (linked in my post mentioned above). if you are serious, skip the first step and get a new mid level instrument.
you are going about it the first way. doing lots of ebay research. thats how we all start off. just to see whats out there. poke your head in at http://www.concertina.net/forums and read around there, too. check out the faq's outside the forums too.
if you have any questions, PM me.
as for your ebay finds (which may or may not be scams):
the first link: piece of junk anglo
second one: nice concertina, but not enough buttons for irish music if its in c/g and the damage is not worth your trouble
third one: english concertina looks nice enough, but i dont recognize the maker
Re: Concertina players! I need info, and some help!
Errr... ****** avoid eBay ******
That really scared me. Those links are largely junk and not even the right type of concertina. The sellers are not qualified retailers of musical instruments. They cannot even answer the questions of potential buyers. EBay is a flea market bargain basement with the occasional gem, so stay away at least until you know what you're looking at. The last link there stated that the concertina hadn't been played in 50 years, which is akin moving into a house that hasn't been opened in half a century. You can imagine the work it will need.
At this stage, if you go eBay then you're running the risk of either buying a piece of smelly, moldy trash, a cheap Chinese abomination, or paying 3 x the price just to have your concertina retuned / restored, if it is even the right type of concertina. There are as many types of concertinas and tunings as there are species of frog. You don't know what you're buying, and you're not even sure of what you want... think about it... if you didn't know much about seafood, would you ever buy stone crab from the guy outside the bus station who hustles phoney wristwitches?
If you're buying your first time, then buy from a reputable, specialized seller with a guarantee and/or a return policy. I guess the best alternative to that is to buy from a friend.
For starters, don't buy an English concertina, but an Anglo. The English is the same note on the push and the pull, whereas the Anglo is diatonic. You want to accomodate the lively energy of dance music, not drown it in legato mush. It can be done on an English, however, and is done quite well by some people. The English also offers you the option of playing an accompanying bassline on the left hand (a lot like a piano), but again, you lose some of the bounce without the the bellows direction change. So to begin playing Irish on a concertina I would pick an 30-key, C/G Anglo with steel reeds. Plus, if you learn an Anglo then you're more likely be able to pick up anyone's instrument at a session and try it out.
The 20 button is very limiting without all the accidentals you'll need to play many of the tunes you already know. I wouldn't spend under $800 for a quality beginner instrument. Don't break your bank, though. I like vintage as much as the next guy, but I wouldn't buy a museum piece just yet... Get to know the system first, decide if you like it, then invest. If you buy a new, 30 button beginner concertina with steel reeds, then the resale value will still be more than half of what you paid for it. You might even get some trade credit.
Ring up the people at The Button Box (www.buttonbox.com) and you can ask them a million questions. They're very friendly and very helpful, and have great instruments and tutorial materials. The used instruments section of their webpage is updated at least once every 10 or 12 days, often more frequently. Or you might try Hobgoblin, but I found the Button Box people much more helpful when I was in your shoes.
Also, search the net before buying. There is so much information all over the net. Go to concertina.net and search the forums or ask your question there, search this site's old discussions (this topic has come up at least 60 times. I brought it up myself 3 or 4 years ago), look at ceolas.org for basic info, google it, look at the FAQ pages at hobgoblin.com for a crash course and of course make a few phone calls. Good luck.
You can make good Irish traditional music on either an anglo or English style.
Recordings of Irish style players on anglo are more common than those of Irish style players on English, and DVD tutors specific to Irish music and the anglo are available, making learning the Irish style on the anglo more accessible.
On the other hand, Wheatstone designed the English treble concertina to be sort of a mechanical version of the fiddle with a similar range, and players like Tim Jennings and Simon Thoumire make great music on them.
You might try renting one of each style from the Button Box and experience the differences yourself. http://www.buttonbox.com/
Re: Concertina players! I need info, and some help!
You don't accompany with the left hand on an English, that's a duet (or Anglo.) In the English system the notes are alternate left and right. If you're not well co-ordinated left and right (if you ever misspell words because one hand types faster than the other) English may not be such a good idea.
Re: Concertina players! I need info, and some help!
While agreeing generally about ebay, there are the odd knowledgeable people selling, cocoa111 for one, who puts out reasonably assesed instruments, but of course won't sell you a bargain, but a decent instrument. If you get a decent one and fail to reach a satisfying level of performance, you should not be the loser when you sell it on.
Re: Concertina players! I need info, and some help!
I would add there are other good musicians who use the english concertina in some branches of celtic music, Alistair Anderson in the NE of England, Brian McNeil in Scotland, and these people are heads of their respective schools of traditional music, so don't say you need an anglo to play this sort of stuff, part of it was that the english was always more expensive, so traditional musicians couldn't afford them 150 years ago, hence they played the anglo; rather in the same way that the wooden flute came into irish music when the silver flute became the accepted orchestral instrument, and wooden flutes became very cheap on the second-hand market.
It is also true that ther english treble 48-key, which is the standard model you find mostly, has the same range as the violin, and, I learned, was very popular with Victorian ladies, as it wasn't polite to play the violin ( something to do with underarm deodourants, or the lack of them ? ).
Re: Concertina players! I need info, and some help!
PS I think they have the dates slightly wrong on the last concertina listed above - this looks like the ones Neil Wayne commissioned as economy models for beginners in the '70's, should certainly be playable as a starter instrument.
Re: Concertina players! I need info, and some help!
I agree with laitch, check out The Button Box (www.buttonbox.com), they specialize in concertinas, and are really straight with the customers they deal with.
Re: Concertina players! I need info, and some help!
Irishfiddler, you sound like my alter ego. I'm a fiddler and recently took up the concertina just four months ago. I got a C/G 30-button anglo Morse with Wheatstone layout from the Button Box and couldn't be happier. The action is very smooth, and the thing is LIGHT, which I need for my increasingly tight hands. My teacher, who plays two very old vintage concertinas, is always entirely impressed by the thing. It's worth every penny. There's a wait, so make up your mind soon!
Best of luck to you.
Re: Concertina players! I need info, and some help!
Anglo and English can both play Irish music but involve different techniques. Because the English plays the same note in either direction of bellows travel, it tends to have a "smooth," legato sound. In fact, played without attention to the requirements of the tune, it can be too smoothe. To give the music lift, players work in bellows changes, giveing more punctuation to certain notes. Anglo is just the opposite. Changing direction changes the note, and some melody lines tend to result in frequent bellows changes, potentially making the melody choppy. So, the style most players go for entails grabbing successive notes from buttons that allow them to be played without changing bellows direction, unless the notes occur at a point where the added emphasis, or punctuation, is appropriate. Because of the layout of an Anglo, that sometimes means finding a less-than-obvious location for a note. This limitation also has its virtues, however. Chief among them is the inclusion of duplicate notes scattered about the instrument , often in the outermost row, that give the option of playing a given note in one place on bellows draw and in another place on bellows compression. Several notes are typically available on three different buttons.
Long story short (I know, too late), English and Anglo want to be playe, in a manner that is, respectively, too smooth and too choppy. But proper technique can tame those inherent tendencies. Anglo has the advantage of allowing triplets by using two different buttons that play the same note in the same direction of travel. By alternating the notes in A-B-A style, a nice crisp, fast triplet can be accomplished. Some really good English players can do the same by kind of rolling the ring, middle, and index fingers successively over the same button very rapidly (almost like drumming your fingers), but that's a very tricky maneuver for most players. Another potential advantage of an Anglo over an English is the potentially lesser weight of the former. Enclish concertinas have more reeds and reeds are fitted into metal shoes. Each reed also has a bunch of associated levers and valves. All of that adds weight, which is your enemy. It's not just more weight to support, it's more inertia to overcome when playing. Imagine playing a fretted instrument with a pick that weighs about a pund and a half and you've got some idea.
Although I've heard some really good music coming from Stagi concertinas, I wouldn't recommend one. They're spongy feeling and the reeds are slow to respond. I developed tendonitis trying to pump a Stagi hard and fast enough to play up to speed (without success, I might add). A better instrument with leaky bellows can have the same undesirable effect. Many people seem to go with the Button Box's Ceili brand or a Lachenal that has had its bellows repaired as first instruments. There are some others out there that are probably viable alternatives. I believe Bob Tedrow in Alabama makes a good entry level instrument. None of these are cheap but, more than with most instruments, quality pays for itself in concertinas.
Re: Concertina players! I need info, and some help!
Same-button triplets on either kind of concertina are a lot easier than people make out. I put off learning how to do it for months, and then I tried it and got the hang of it in a couple of weeks. The only thing that gave me grief was my ring finger on my left hand. When I do a roll or triplet on F# I have to drum that ring finger and my middle finger. At first my fingers didn't want to do it, and it actually hurt to try and do it at speed, but I worked at it and it came right after a couple of months. The B-part of the Humours of Tulla was the tune I used to practise with so that it comes out as |af (3fff df (3fff|af (3fff geeg|...
Re: Concertina players! I need info, and some help!
Then there's the "phantom button" technique that gives you tight three-note triplets and lands you right back on the finger you started with. Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha
Re: Concertina players! I need info, and some help!
I use the phantom button technique too. I never need to use my pinkie fingers for playing. Unlike you, Jack, I have complete freedom to choose what notes to use as grace notes in my rolls and crans, and complete freedom to decide when I want to have a bellows change (I can change direction whenever I please). I'd hate to be restricted to certain set patterns like you are - I'd get extremely bored I'm sure.
Re: Concertina players! I need info, and some help!
Come on. Ebay is not that bad really. I bought a fantastic Suttner concertina from a bloke in England from Ebay. It was simply a case of finding someone to referee the seller which in this case was not difficult at all as he knew some top instrument makers in England. It allowed me to bring the second suttner into Australia without any hassle at all and I have never looked back. Ebay can work for you if you are smart about it.
Irishfiddler, as I've mentioned in previous posts, if you are serious aboput learning concertina for ITM, my advice is to spend the money and get a good quality concertina (which can be quite a long wait, and also means get an Anglo!). As you know there is nothing more frustrating than trying to play quality music on an instrument that does not perform, does not respond when required, has a crap tone etc. So be brave, dig deep, practice lots and if you don't like it after a couple of years you will always get your money back. However, if you buy a crap concertina you will only regret it in the long run. Cheers and happy tunes to you.
P.S. Dow, since when did you start playing triplets on an Anglo?
Concertina players! I need info, and some help!
Concertina players! I need info, and some help!
Hey folks, I've just got a few questions for any concertina players out there. I play Trad. fiddle, but have always enjoyed the concertina and would really like to learn to play it. What should I start out playing? Being a fiddle player, I know the difference between the good and the BAD fiddles and their sounds and am very weary and picky when looking to buy. I have always been drawn to the GOOD quality antique or vintage fiddles. Although, I know there are old fiddles that sound like crap and are made like it too. Usually the number one thing I would avoid when buying a fiddle is to NEVER buy some of these new fiddles and obviously the beginner ones (unless you spend a lot on a nice new hand made instrument, but even then, I really try to avoid that). I just think fiddles with age have more to offer in a way. And I like to think they have a history behind them! I am assuming that this is the case when looking for concertinas. Am I correct? SO, my other questions... How can I find good quality concertinas that are not new, but worth buying and not with a hefty price tag? What is the usual price of a nice one?(in US dollars please!) I look at e-bay quite a bit and see what looks to me like nice older ones, but they all look different. Are there different versions? Also, what exactly do you listen for in one? Are they all always going to be made in the same key or different? And if different, can you change the keys? As you can tell I don't know very much about this instrument, but would love to know more. When I find a nice one, I would love to find someone to teach me a few things and get me started. Basically, I just want to know what I should be looking for when browsing for these instruments. THANKS FOR ANY HELP IN ADVANCE!
# Posted on June 29th 2006 by irishfiddler
Re: Concertina players! I need info, and some help!
PS. This http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-SCHOLER-CONCERTINA-21-BUTTON-ACCORDION-NR-OLD_W0QQitemZ220001587629QQihZ012QQcategoryZ16218QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem is what I mean....THIS does not look like something I would see in a trad Irish session. It look Itailian or something.
And this http://cgi.ebay.com/Lachenal-Co-Concertina-in-Original-Wooden-Box-G-W-O_W0QQitemZ180000739755QQihZ008QQcategoryZ16218QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
looks nice, but...
This http://cgi.ebay.com/Fantastic-Antique-Concertina_W0QQitemZ200001315401QQihZ010QQcategoryZ16218QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Looks like the best!
This http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-English-Concertina-Accordion-48-keys_W0QQitemZ260002519867QQihZ016QQcategoryZ16218QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Might be nice, but it looks to new to me.
But what do I know? Hehe......
# Posted on June 29th 2006 by irishfiddler
Re: Concertina players! I need info, and some help!
you can buy new concertinas. old ones are good too. the pros and cons are discussed in this thread: here is a link to a discussion about this recently. it links directly to my post. http://thesession.org/discussions/display/10390/comments#comment215476 . it links directly to my post, where i talk mostly about new concertinas, but someone else before me alluded to a guy who sells vintage concertinas.
if you want to play irish music, your best bet is to get an anglo. i personally have an itching to buy an english concertina, but i have 2 anglo concertinas and the way so i'm all set for new instruments for now. the reason it is best to get an anglo is because thats what most of the irish players are playing. however, if you can manage to try both types, then you can make your own decision. just be aware that you will probably have to figure out how to play irish music by yourself if you choose english.
anglo concertinas come in different keys. most irish players get C/G concertinas. that is the best concertina for session playing. english concertinas as far as i know come in ranges, instead of pitches. i cant be too much help in that department.
as far as ebay, stay away from it. the only deals in the concertina world are "my vintage concertina cost me $3,000 instead of $5,000." the cheapeset i would go for a concertina is a stagi from the buttonbox (linked in my post mentioned above). if you are serious, skip the first step and get a new mid level instrument.
you are going about it the first way. doing lots of ebay research. thats how we all start off. just to see whats out there. poke your head in at http://www.concertina.net/forums and read around there, too. check out the faq's outside the forums too.
if you have any questions, PM me.
as for your ebay finds (which may or may not be scams):
the first link: piece of junk anglo
second one: nice concertina, but not enough buttons for irish music if its in c/g and the damage is not worth your trouble
third one: english concertina looks nice enough, but i dont recognize the maker
fourth one: piece of junk english
# Posted on June 29th 2006 by daiv
Re: Concertina players! I need info, and some help!
i apologize for my lack of proofreading. the only error i have found that changes my meaning besides making me look stupid is:
"you are about it the right way." instead of "first way."
# Posted on June 29th 2006 by daiv
Re: Concertina players! I need info, and some help!
Errr... ****** avoid eBay ******
That really scared me. Those links are largely junk and not even the right type of concertina. The sellers are not qualified retailers of musical instruments. They cannot even answer the questions of potential buyers. EBay is a flea market bargain basement with the occasional gem, so stay away at least until you know what you're looking at. The last link there stated that the concertina hadn't been played in 50 years, which is akin moving into a house that hasn't been opened in half a century. You can imagine the work it will need.
At this stage, if you go eBay then you're running the risk of either buying a piece of smelly, moldy trash, a cheap Chinese abomination, or paying 3 x the price just to have your concertina retuned / restored, if it is even the right type of concertina. There are as many types of concertinas and tunings as there are species of frog. You don't know what you're buying, and you're not even sure of what you want... think about it... if you didn't know much about seafood, would you ever buy stone crab from the guy outside the bus station who hustles phoney wristwitches?
If you're buying your first time, then buy from a reputable, specialized seller with a guarantee and/or a return policy. I guess the best alternative to that is to buy from a friend.
For starters, don't buy an English concertina, but an Anglo. The English is the same note on the push and the pull, whereas the Anglo is diatonic. You want to accomodate the lively energy of dance music, not drown it in legato mush. It can be done on an English, however, and is done quite well by some people. The English also offers you the option of playing an accompanying bassline on the left hand (a lot like a piano), but again, you lose some of the bounce without the the bellows direction change. So to begin playing Irish on a concertina I would pick an 30-key, C/G Anglo with steel reeds. Plus, if you learn an Anglo then you're more likely be able to pick up anyone's instrument at a session and try it out.
The 20 button is very limiting without all the accidentals you'll need to play many of the tunes you already know. I wouldn't spend under $800 for a quality beginner instrument. Don't break your bank, though. I like vintage as much as the next guy, but I wouldn't buy a museum piece just yet... Get to know the system first, decide if you like it, then invest. If you buy a new, 30 button beginner concertina with steel reeds, then the resale value will still be more than half of what you paid for it. You might even get some trade credit.
Ring up the people at The Button Box (www.buttonbox.com) and you can ask them a million questions. They're very friendly and very helpful, and have great instruments and tutorial materials. The used instruments section of their webpage is updated at least once every 10 or 12 days, often more frequently. Or you might try Hobgoblin, but I found the Button Box people much more helpful when I was in your shoes.
Also, search the net before buying. There is so much information all over the net. Go to concertina.net and search the forums or ask your question there, search this site's old discussions (this topic has come up at least 60 times. I brought it up myself 3 or 4 years ago), look at ceolas.org for basic info, google it, look at the FAQ pages at hobgoblin.com for a crash course and of course make a few phone calls. Good luck.
# Posted on June 29th 2006 by gravelwalks
Re: Concertina players! I need info, and some help!
Hey irishfiddler
You can be find some important basic info here: http://www.concertina.info/index.html
I join the chorus that says avoid eBay.
You can make good Irish traditional music on either an anglo or English style.
Recordings of Irish style players on anglo are more common than those of Irish style players on English, and DVD tutors specific to Irish music and the anglo are available, making learning the Irish style on the anglo more accessible.
On the other hand, Wheatstone designed the English treble concertina to be sort of a mechanical version of the fiddle with a similar range, and players like Tim Jennings and Simon Thoumire make great music on them.
You might try renting one of each style from the Button Box and experience the differences yourself. http://www.buttonbox.com/
# Posted on June 29th 2006 by joesmith
Re: Concertina players! I need info, and some help!
You don't accompany with the left hand on an English, that's a duet (or Anglo.) In the English system the notes are alternate left and right. If you're not well co-ordinated left and right (if you ever misspell words because one hand types faster than the other) English may not be such a good idea.
# Posted on June 29th 2006 by TomB-R
Re: Concertina players! I need info, and some help!
While agreeing generally about ebay, there are the odd knowledgeable people selling, cocoa111 for one, who puts out reasonably assesed instruments, but of course won't sell you a bargain, but a decent instrument. If you get a decent one and fail to reach a satisfying level of performance, you should not be the loser when you sell it on.
# Posted on June 29th 2006 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Concertina players! I need info, and some help!
I would add there are other good musicians who use the english concertina in some branches of celtic music, Alistair Anderson in the NE of England, Brian McNeil in Scotland, and these people are heads of their respective schools of traditional music, so don't say you need an anglo to play this sort of stuff, part of it was that the english was always more expensive, so traditional musicians couldn't afford them 150 years ago, hence they played the anglo; rather in the same way that the wooden flute came into irish music when the silver flute became the accepted orchestral instrument, and wooden flutes became very cheap on the second-hand market.
It is also true that ther english treble 48-key, which is the standard model you find mostly, has the same range as the violin, and, I learned, was very popular with Victorian ladies, as it wasn't polite to play the violin ( something to do with underarm deodourants, or the lack of them ? ).
# Posted on June 29th 2006 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Concertina players! I need info, and some help!
PS I think they have the dates slightly wrong on the last concertina listed above - this looks like the ones Neil Wayne commissioned as economy models for beginners in the '70's, should certainly be playable as a starter instrument.
# Posted on June 29th 2006 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Concertina players! I need info, and some help!
I agree with laitch, check out The Button Box (www.buttonbox.com), they specialize in concertinas, and are really straight with the customers they deal with.
# Posted on June 29th 2006 by AlBrown
Re: Concertina players! I need info, and some help!
Irishfiddler, you sound like my alter ego. I'm a fiddler and recently took up the concertina just four months ago. I got a C/G 30-button anglo Morse with Wheatstone layout from the Button Box and couldn't be happier. The action is very smooth, and the thing is LIGHT, which I need for my increasingly tight hands. My teacher, who plays two very old vintage concertinas, is always entirely impressed by the thing. It's worth every penny. There's a wait, so make up your mind soon!
Best of luck to you.
# Posted on June 30th 2006 by grymater
Re: Concertina players! I need info, and some help!
Anglo and English can both play Irish music but involve different techniques. Because the English plays the same note in either direction of bellows travel, it tends to have a "smooth," legato sound. In fact, played without attention to the requirements of the tune, it can be too smoothe. To give the music lift, players work in bellows changes, giveing more punctuation to certain notes. Anglo is just the opposite. Changing direction changes the note, and some melody lines tend to result in frequent bellows changes, potentially making the melody choppy. So, the style most players go for entails grabbing successive notes from buttons that allow them to be played without changing bellows direction, unless the notes occur at a point where the added emphasis, or punctuation, is appropriate. Because of the layout of an Anglo, that sometimes means finding a less-than-obvious location for a note. This limitation also has its virtues, however. Chief among them is the inclusion of duplicate notes scattered about the instrument , often in the outermost row, that give the option of playing a given note in one place on bellows draw and in another place on bellows compression. Several notes are typically available on three different buttons.
Long story short (I know, too late), English and Anglo want to be playe, in a manner that is, respectively, too smooth and too choppy. But proper technique can tame those inherent tendencies. Anglo has the advantage of allowing triplets by using two different buttons that play the same note in the same direction of travel. By alternating the notes in A-B-A style, a nice crisp, fast triplet can be accomplished. Some really good English players can do the same by kind of rolling the ring, middle, and index fingers successively over the same button very rapidly (almost like drumming your fingers), but that's a very tricky maneuver for most players. Another potential advantage of an Anglo over an English is the potentially lesser weight of the former. Enclish concertinas have more reeds and reeds are fitted into metal shoes. Each reed also has a bunch of associated levers and valves. All of that adds weight, which is your enemy. It's not just more weight to support, it's more inertia to overcome when playing. Imagine playing a fretted instrument with a pick that weighs about a pund and a half and you've got some idea.
Although I've heard some really good music coming from Stagi concertinas, I wouldn't recommend one. They're spongy feeling and the reeds are slow to respond. I developed tendonitis trying to pump a Stagi hard and fast enough to play up to speed (without success, I might add). A better instrument with leaky bellows can have the same undesirable effect. Many people seem to go with the Button Box's Ceili brand or a Lachenal that has had its bellows repaired as first instruments. There are some others out there that are probably viable alternatives. I believe Bob Tedrow in Alabama makes a good entry level instrument. None of these are cheap but, more than with most instruments, quality pays for itself in concertinas.
# Posted on July 1st 2006 by devellis
Re: Concertina players! I need info, and some help!
Same-button triplets on either kind of concertina are a lot easier than people make out. I put off learning how to do it for months, and then I tried it and got the hang of it in a couple of weeks. The only thing that gave me grief was my ring finger on my left hand. When I do a roll or triplet on F# I have to drum that ring finger and my middle finger. At first my fingers didn't want to do it, and it actually hurt to try and do it at speed, but I worked at it and it came right after a couple of months. The B-part of the Humours of Tulla was the tune I used to practise with so that it comes out as |af (3fff df (3fff|af (3fff geeg|...
# Posted on July 1st 2006 by Dow
Re: Concertina players! I need info, and some help!
Then there's the "phantom button" technique that gives you tight three-note triplets and lands you right back on the finger you started with. Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha
# Posted on July 1st 2006 by Phantom Button
Re: Concertina players! I need info, and some help!
I forgot to mention it works on just about every button, including the left-hand F# pinkie finger.
# Posted on July 1st 2006 by Phantom Button
Re: Concertina players! I need info, and some help!
I use the phantom button technique too. I never need to use my pinkie fingers for playing. Unlike you, Jack, I have complete freedom to choose what notes to use as grace notes in my rolls and crans, and complete freedom to decide when I want to have a bellows change (I can change direction whenever I please). I'd hate to be restricted to certain set patterns like you are - I'd get extremely bored I'm sure.
# Posted on July 1st 2006 by Dow
Re: Concertina players! I need info, and some help!
Yea yea... right.
# Posted on July 1st 2006 by Phantom Button
Re: Concertina players! I need info, and some help!
Also highly recommend instruments by Frank Edgley:
http://www.concertinas.ca
# Posted on July 2nd 2006 by Michael Eskin
Re: Concertina players! I need info, and some help!
Come on. Ebay is not that bad really. I bought a fantastic Suttner concertina from a bloke in England from Ebay. It was simply a case of finding someone to referee the seller which in this case was not difficult at all as he knew some top instrument makers in England. It allowed me to bring the second suttner into Australia without any hassle at all and I have never looked back. Ebay can work for you if you are smart about it.
Irishfiddler, as I've mentioned in previous posts, if you are serious aboput learning concertina for ITM, my advice is to spend the money and get a good quality concertina (which can be quite a long wait, and also means get an Anglo!). As you know there is nothing more frustrating than trying to play quality music on an instrument that does not perform, does not respond when required, has a crap tone etc. So be brave, dig deep, practice lots and if you don't like it after a couple of years you will always get your money back. However, if you buy a crap concertina you will only regret it in the long run. Cheers and happy tunes to you.
P.S. Dow, since when did you start playing triplets on an Anglo?
# Posted on July 2nd 2006 by kiwi
Re: Concertina players! I need info, and some help!
Shut it
# Posted on July 2nd 2006 by Dow
Re: Concertina players! I need info, and some help!
Hi,
there are now only 3 Irish-Concertina Maker of high Q.
1. Jürgen Suttner from germany
2. Colin Dipper from UK
3. Steve Dickinson from UK
and the good old Maker
1.Jeffries
2.Weathstone
and maybe
Crabb
This Anglos are made on high Q.
The others are ....( are 2 Class or lower)
Ask and have a look only to the best irish player !!!
Yours Mario
www.Concertina.de
# Posted on July 4th 2006 by Mario Kliemann