So how many of you nod approval at these sentiments, when reading them - but in practice, throw these principals right out the window in real life & just resort to your every day bad manners & selfish, self-centred approach to life?
OK - While you are thinking about your answer, here’s the story:
At a session here, this week, I witnessed some ITMs do just that!
Two passing through musicians, one from North Carolina & ‘tother from Lancashire arrived early at our session, in the heart of rural Ulster, but when these four generous spirits arrived, instead of giving these musicians the ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’ treatment, they instead, decided to give these visitors a wide berth & started another session in another part of the pub.
Now, I can hear you all shake your heads in disgust, but to qualify the story a little, I have to admit that the two strangers were playing Hammered Dulcimers, [ I know - not ‘the’ most popular of instruments in Ireland it has to be said ] but I like to think that, were I faced with the same scene on arrival, I would have been a big enough person to have treated the strangers with, even just a little, respect & courtesy.
Surely we should treat other musicians the way we would hope to be treated ourselves, when we arrived ourselves, at a strange session, in a strange town?
I like to think that, had I even walked in and found two strange Harp players, or two strange Banjo players, or even {dare I say it?}......two strange Bodhran players, I would still have joined them, introduced myself & played music with them.
This sad tale reminds me of that old adage, (perhaps it’s from the Bible?):
“TO BREAK BREAD WITH STRANGERS AND LEAVE THE TABLE WITH FRIEND”
Unfortunately, our Dulcimer players in this story left this particular table with no new friends.
So, my question is this - (& be honest – please) how many folks here would have done likewise & burned off the HD players, & started up elsewhere?
On the other hand, how many people here find this attitude totally unacceptable & believe that this type of ill-mannered behaviour only serves to give ITM a bad name & does nothing to encourage the desired reputation which the rest of us strive each week to give our beloved ITM?
I used to think this type of unfortunate type of behaviour was only to be found in our impersonal big city sessions, & just put it down to ‘them poor ignorant city folk who are - ‘more to be pitied than scolded’’, but this bad attitude, it appears, is creeping into, what were formerly, warm, friendly country town sessions in Ireland, too!
In a review of this very session, carried out by MacSpy a few years ago, he ended the article with:
“I would say that anyone coming across Mr Glasgow & friends would certainly get the proper welcome & encouragement which should be afforded to all who travel with tunes in their heart. Well done lads....”
Sadly, I think MacSpy would need to edit that quote now, in the light of last week’s display, to read “Mr Glasgow '& some of his friends'”
Someone once described our session as - "the best wee session in Ireland" - but sadly, we have a long way to go, & a lot of work to do, before we can even think of printing that particular T Shirt for ourselves!
So is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’? – sadly, I think, not yet!
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
(I like their list in the second link you posted:
instruments may include: accordion, banjo, concertina, irish flute, harp, hammered dulcimer, penny whistle, small pipes, uilleann pipes, Mandolin, citern/bouzouki, and guitar.
Hmm, that's half the musisians I know not welcome then)
But to answer the question:
It depends.
The HD is such a horrid thing, and two is worse than twice as bad. And you must admit that a basic rule of session etiquette is "if you are a new visitor to an established session, the worse thing you can do is turn up early, sit at the regulars' table, and start without them".
So I'm picturing this ... I turn up for my weekly diddle, and a pair of uninvited eejits are making a right royal racket. It"s quite possible they'd get the cold shoulder from me
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
I'll grant you, the HD is not the most popular of instruments 'llig leahcim', but, & let me get this straight, what your saying is that - anyone that you don't actually invite yourself 'llig leahcim', to 'your' session, is then by your definition, an "uninvited eejit"?
Ah folks, now don't you just love the warm, friendly inviting atmosphere of the Traditional Irish Session? ....!
For anyone who is not actually familiar with the sound of the Hammered Dulcimer in Irish Music, & doesn't have a blanket prejudice against this instrument, you might like to take a listen to the MP3s on this page & judge for yourself.
I know you won't 'all' like this sound, first time round, but then we all have our own preferences.
Interesting, isn't it, that revered musicians of the calibre of Seamus Connolly, Josephine Keegan & Tony Smith appear to be quite happy to be associated with this "horrid thing"!
Makes me wonder what sort of reaction was encountered by the first musician to ever 'dare' to bring a Banjo, or Mandolin, or Bouzouki, or Cittern, or Mandola to a session - especially if they were (perish the thought - oh sin of all sins) - UNINVITED!
Maybe I'll just give up ITM altogether & take up a new hobby -like watching football!
Now football supporters, there's a nice bunch of lads who always know how to welcome strangers into their midst! - especially if they're wearing a jumper - of a 'colour' they don't like!
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Sorry llig leahcim, forgot to answer your other point.
"And you must admit that a basic rule of session etiquette is "if you are a new visitor to an established session, the worse thing you can do is turn up early, sit at the regulars' table, and start without them".
Absolutely agree with you there. That is probably why these two set up, to the side, & well away from the 'Session Table' - so I don't think we can't fault them on that score.
I agree with you too that, normally, I wouldn't take my instrument out either at a strange session - until I'd been invited to do so, but as I was the first of the regulars to arrive & had already invited them to 'get them out', I think they were playing it by the book.
The other point to remember is that with a minimum of 50 strings to tune, it is considered standard practice, & proper manners for HD players to arrive early, so that they can be all tuned up & ready to go, & so not hold up the session.
We all know how long some Guitar/Cittern/Bouzouki/Mandola/Mandolin players can take to tune up!
Interesting too, in that list you mentioned - no mention of the beloved - Djembe!
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Ptarmigan has opened up a very interesting discussion which lies at the crux of many session tensions. The question in its starkest form is this: should anyone be welcome to a session, no matter how bad a player they are, or what instrument they bring with them, on the basis that they have made the effort to come and it is only common politeness to welcome them; or are certain people excluded or discouraged on the grounds that it is "bad for the music" to have them there in a playing capacity?
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Aye Nick, I suppose that's it in a nutshell - although, as you may have noticed, I have never been one for nutshells myself!
Incidentally, you appear to be sitting very comfortably on ther fence there Nick - any opinions yourself?
Are you in favour of throwing your session wide open,?
Or do you have a list of instruments you would prefer to see totally banned from ever darkening your session's door?
I can understand that odd instruments like Trumpet, Djembe, Trombone etc, which have no history in ITM would be viewed by one & all with raised eyebrows, were they to be produced at our sacred weekly gatherings, but in the case in point, the instruments in question have a far longer history of being made & played in Co Antrim, (appx 200 years - N.B. - first Irish record iwas around 1740s - in Dublin) than at least two of the instruments used in the 'other' session that night!
Is there any record of a Guitar or Bodhran actually being played with Traditional Music before the 1950s I wonder?
If, as I suspect, not, then 'perhaps', & I did say perhaps, the HDs had in fact more of a historical & traditional claim to be in a Co Antrim session than the Geetar & Bod U Ran?
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Nick, can I just make one further point, re: your - "no matter how bad a player they are" There is no way whatsoever that these two players could 'ever' be classed as bad players, as they are both highly respected & influential full time musicians.
Of course you would have to actually listen to them, to realise that fact in the first place!
I should perhaps, also say here that the treatment they received was treated by each of them, like water off a ducks back!
I'm sure they have, like most of us, regrettably, seen this sort of thing so many times before & are probably of the same opinion as myself that the perpetrators are more to be pitied than scolded!
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Frankly, it sounds like rather bad behavior on all sides. Even at my geekiest early-session days, I never set up and started playing. I was at a session recently where a visitor behaved rather badly (e.g., insisting on playing when she didn't know the tune). But even this person had emailed the anchor beforehand to confirm that the session was happening and that visitors were welcome.
On the other hand, I think if we close ourselves off to newcomers -- including those who may not have the etiquette down yet -- it might well turn out to be our (the session's) loss.
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Practically speaking, the way it happens in my neck of the woods is like this:
Yes, everybody is welcomed. Everybody who turns up with an instrument case is gently ribbed until they "get it out and giz a tune". What happens next is largely up to them. If they happen to be nice agreeable people, they will continue to be welcomed, if they are not, and they commit session fopars, they will either be cold shouldered or worse. And this really is regardless of the instrument.
(However, we'd concider loudly bashing hundreds of metal strings streched taughtly across a large wooden box with almost infinate sustain - imagine a piano with the sustain pedal stuck in the on position -, all night, a session fopar.)
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
In fact, imagine a piano with he sustain pedal stuck in the on position and the hammers made of wood instead of felt, and the front and the top of. Tasteful eh.
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
My worst fear is that other people think that a session I'm in is snobby and won't play for that reason. But it has to be said there are rules to session etiquette and it's really irritating when you can't just sit down and have a crankin tune. However, there are tons of people who don't know them and you can't hold it against them cos they'll learn eventually and why turn them away from the music before they've even had a chance to?
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT ME WHEN I SHOW UP IN YOUR PUB:
I AM A YANKEE.
I AM A FIDDLE PLAYER.
I HAVE BEEN PLAYING FOR 4 YEARS.
I AM STARTING TO GO TO JAMS & SESSIONS.
I LIKE BLUEGRASS, OLD TIME, IRISH TRAD., CELTIC & TEXAS SWING.
I CAN'T TAKE A BREAK TO SAVE MY LIFE.
I CAN PLAY BRITCHES FULL OF STITCHES
Until I open my mouth, nobody knows any of this when I walk into a jam or session, except for the fiddle (although it may be a tommy gun). ;)
How am I supposed to know the rules and etti-ket when I walk into a new environment? The assumption that I should know is a dangerous one.
If you really want to protect the music, send a party out to fend me off before I put my foot in it. I will promise not to make assumptions about your space, but somebody needs to meet me half way.
Maybe sessions and jams would get along better if a person was given the job of official greeter and vetter.
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
I know what your saying cathrynb, { "Even at my geekiest early-session days, I never set up and started playing." } but the fact is, these musicians didn't take out & set up UNTIL I'd actually asked them to, so I don't believe that there was any bad behavour on there part, AT ALL!
"In fact, imagine a piano with he sustain pedal stuck in the on position and the hammers made of wood instead of felt, and the front and the top of. Tasteful eh."
- OK llig leahcim, I'm afraid you are now clearly showing your ignorance now, of this instrument you say you don't like!
Point No 1 - the fact is most HD players have a choice of numerous hammers & usually play with hammers which have either a thin or a thick strip of felt on the Hammers! http://www.causewaymusic.co.uk/hammers.html
Point No 2 - a lot of HDs these days are made with dampers fitted so that they need have no more sustain than any other instrument in the session! http://www.causewaymusic.co.uk/hddamper.html
You see llig – a little knowledge IS a dangerous thing!
Of course if you just wish to slag off instruments for the sake of it, we can all have a right good laugh now about all the skretchy fiddles, & ear piercing whistles, & out of tune flutes, & jangly thrashy Guitars, Bouzoukis, Citterns & Mandolas that drown us out, or the miming Mandolinists you can't hear, or rumpity, lumpity, tumpity Bodhran players etc, etc - now, wasn't that fun? ......Did I miss anyone out? Happy now llig?
Oh no, don't mention that dreaded word snobby here sneetch, for pitty's sake!.........................
"How am I supposed to know the rules and etti-ket when I walk into a new environment?"
- that's the point Meri-pixie, you should be considered innocent until proven guilty, then & only then, as 'llig' says - "they will either be cold shouldered or worse."
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Is it possible that the regulars are shy people who aren't comfortable with strangers and strange instruments? Who, on reflection, might wish they'd acted differently?
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Couldn't wait any longer for someone to spell Cead Mile Failte correctly, so there it is, barring the fact that there should be a fada over the first 'e', the first 'i' and the second 'a', but I don't know how to do that....
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
ha, that's funny dow.
The thing about awfull instruments though, which I find fascinating, is that you can always find someone who makes them sound brilliant. Noel Hill and the concertina for example, Donal Lunny and the bodhran etc.
This is why, as I said earlier, that everyone is welcome, even hammer dulcimer players. You never know when that genius might turn up out of the blue. However, that small window of proof is tough if you are not up to it.
But Oh the joy when a stranger arrives and they can really play. Makes any amount of initial toleration of dross worth while.
I supose the point is that it's not open music, I'm sorry, but it;s just not. It's a very specific clique. It's really not open to interpretation in the normal "jam" sense of the word.
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Well, pray tell, how would that help us in this case 21061?
After all, the HD has been played in Ireland since the early 1700s, & in Scotland & England long before that & it is a regular participant at Old Time sessions over in the States!
However, I'd be interested to hear your definition of the one thing & the other?
"whens your new novel coming out?" - any suggestions on suitable subject matter 21061
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
If I happened into my local with my fiddle and there were two HD players there that I didn't know and they were playing some tunes, I would be overjoyed and would ask THEM, could I join in.
But that's because where I live, there are no regular sessions. I can drive 3 - 4 hours roundtrip to Seattle or Portland for a "great" session, but that's a long haul.
So, my answer is I would welcome them. But I don't have a regular session, so my response is based simply on my desperation to hear/meet/play with new live musicians in the town where I live. It's different for all of you who have regular sessions with leaders and rules and etiquette and an understanding of fopars. And I understand that.
But if there were HD players from North Carolina and Lancashire in my town and I happened to meet up with him/her, I would just want to hear them play tunes and then play along with them if I knew any of the tunes they were playing.
And if those two HD players (or either one of them) were to come to Olympia, they would be most welcome. Let me know ahead of time if you're coming and we'll set things up for you.
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Yes John, your reaction is the one I'd expect from most musicians. Two musicians appear & you want to hear what they can do, before pre-judging them - a natural, healthy attitude I reckon.
I believe most musicians do start out with this, what I would consider, healthy attitude, but sadly, somewhere along the road they develop these little hitler-like ideas of grandeur, & a little devil hops up on ther shoulder & tells them they are better than everyone else!
Another sign of this, is that dreadful business of musicians shouting aggresively at the punters, & demanding that they be silent while someone sings or plays a slow air - this is another faux pas, in my book of rules of good manners & etiquette, & always makes me squirm in my seat with utter embarrassment & certainly does nothing to endear any stranger to us or our music.
"And if those two HD players (or either one of them) were to come to Olympia, they would be most welcome." - I'll be sure to let them know - & who knows ........
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
In my humble opinion what is required is patience not tolerance.
I do not believe that we all have an infinite number of 'crankin' session in our lives.
If we wait patiently through all the many variables that come and go in sessions then several things seem to logically follow:
1. A 'crankin' session may surprise us when we least expect it.
2. When the 'crankin session turns up it will be a true joy for being an 'occaision'
3. If we only have a certain number of such awesome sessions in our life then why rush them? I want some left for when I'm older.
4. Bizarre, unsettling and downright odd sessions give us as much to talk about after.......
So maybe we should take whatever comes, certain in the knowledge that hardly any truly wondrous sessions ever happened for being planned......
And the 'rich tapestry of sessions' will be beautiful when it is complete.........
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
The music is only one part of a session. There is also a social part, an educational part, and a part that is about allowing and encouraging people to approach traditional music. Sometimes these different aspects are at odds with one another, and it stands to reason that as the quality of music in a session gets higher, the more difficult it is to be inclusive and to maintain that quality. So we have the tension between those who think sessions are about participation, and those who think they are about producing good music.
Let us agree for the sake of argument, that there is such a thing as an 'average' player; that is a player that is neither especially good or bad; and that a session composed of average players is going to be an average session producing average music. If we are in this hypothetical average session, then the chances of any unknown player walking in off the street and making it much better or worse than it already is, is very small, because the musical ability of the new player is more likely than anything else to be average, or not very much above or below average. The conclusion to be reached from this is that an average session can afford to be very inclusive: everyone who comes in can get their instrument out and join in, because the musical quality of the session is unlikely to suffer as a result.
Move the musical quality of the session up a few notches though, so it is composed of above-average players making above-average music, and the situation changes. Any unknown player wandering into the session is, just as before, still most likely to be an average or near-average player, and therefore someone who will lower the quality of music in the above-average session. The higher the quality of the session therefore, the less likely it is that any unknown player is good enough to join in without lowering the quality of the music. The conclusion to be reached from this is that high quality sessions that are prioritising the quality of the music have to be exclusive, and prevent unknown players from joining in, otherwise they become diluted down to average status.
This latter argument will cheer the hearts of those who prioritise musical quality over the social, cultural and educational function of sessions, and will offend those like Ptarmigan who inhabit the opposing camp. To respond to Ptarmigan's earlier question, and shift off the fence a little, I love to hear a good quality session, but in a sense it is their very rarity that makes them good; I do not enjoy listening to bad players, but if they are playing the fiddle I expect to learn something from them, because they always have something unique that might work somewhere in a tune, or some fault that is only an exaggeration of my own faults and therefore a lesson to be learned. As I am now beginning to sound like some sort of session-saint who tolerates everything with a beatific smile, let me also say that I can only put up with bad playing for a certain amount of time; if someone is really bad, and persistently joining in, then usually I write it off as a duff session and ship out, however on occasions when the session was a rare occurrence, such as at one of the 2 or 3 festivals I get to, and has a core of musicians capable of producing something good, then I have told bad, persistent players to pack it in, or told them to go and learn their instrument properly. It is unpleasant but it is usually what everyone secretly wants but is too polite, or cautious, to say.
Having said all that, if a hammer dulcimer player from North Carolina turned up at our session, he or she would be welcomed very warmly and we would enjoy whatever they produced. It seems unlikley that anyone who lugged an HD across the Atlantic would be a bad player, and must certainly be an enthusiast if nothing else. Not only would they get a hearing, but probably a bed for the night, and a tour of the locality the next day. However, our session is not above average, and is in a sparsely populated area where visitors are a rarity. I share the views of John and Julia.
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Nick,
Would an "average player" necessarily dilute a session? Is it not possible that he/she will raise their game a bit to try and achieve the higher standard there?
Obviously, this will not always be the case and not if they (the average players) came en masse but if the occasional player entered the session with the right attitude, surely this wouldn't cause that many problems?
I say all that as an very average player, of course. However, I've often participated in sessions where musicians are much better than me. Generally, I will not try to play if I don't know a tune or risk putting others off. Also, if it's busy, I'd naturally make way for a better and/or regular player.
I used the word "generally" above because, like everyone else, I've been guilty of indiscretions in my time. As I grow older but not always wiser, these are, hopefully, much fewer and further between.
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Of course my argument is hypothetical, and one could see a situation where an above-average player, but with a different style, or an unorthodox instrument might be seen as 'diluting' a session. The situation you speak of, where an average player raises his game in response to the music around him is I think an important function of sessions, and it is important for players who want to improve to be encouraged by those who have already solved some of the problems they are currently struggling with. Certainly I was encouraged when I was a very raw player and will always be thankful to those who were so generous. Incidentally, some of these people lived in Dublin, on Ballyfermot Parade, when I went on my first fiddle pilgrimage to Ireland in the late 70s, armed with about 6 primitive tunes and a large quantity of ignorance, the depths of which I come to appreciate more and more with the passage of time. They had never met me before, but made me welcome and took me to sessions in the city and taught me a great deal. One of these was James Beatley, and another if I have it right, was a certain Ptarmigan that nested temporarily in the back room on the floor beside the piano, and ventured out every morning to busk at the Bank of Ireland. Thanks guys.
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Apart from the Plastic-Paddy-Wild-Rover "sessions", are there any sessions with "average" players in Ireland? Everyone seems to have played since birth.
I worry whenever an instrument case comes through the door that demands its own seat (uilleann pipe sized boxes on up), and that includes the likes of the uncased too, like Sousaphones...
With hammered dulcimers, well, there are other reasons for fear, bad experiences from the past ~ volume, sustain, big egos, lack of consideration for others, including the music, taking up a quarter of the space in an already tight pub session ~ one in particular who joined us and then set about taking over everything with themselves as the focus and 'director' ~ it's hard to fight the overwhelming characteristics of volume and someone with a hammer in both hands and fire in their eyes...
No, don't get me wrong, we actually like the instrument, in the right hands and circumstances, and we've known a 'few' considerate players who don't feel the need to beat their melodic drum, whatever pair of sticks they choose, through every damned tune, whether or not they really understand it ~ without any subtlety of tone or rhythmic variance. Hey, not that it qualifies us for anything, but we have been in a few 'ensembles' that included it as one of many choices to weave a melody line with, have had the HD friend or two...
BUT! ~ WHATEVER! ~ we wouldn't be rude to newcomers and visitors and snub them. We'd be damned in our own eyes if we allowed our initial sinking feelings and fear to rule over sense and quash the fire in our hearts for hospitality and basic courtesy. Worse, in Ptram's equation, they didn't just snub the visitors, they also snubbed a regular, Ptarm himself. If we let our sinking fealings, those butterflies and past experiences and fears, however well supported by experience, interfer with living life fully, musical or otherwise, that would mean us missing out on a hell of a lot of past and future fun ~ good humour and laughter we've had the pleasure of being part of in the social process of sharing music. This loss would include joys with the unlikely combination of hammered dulcimer and Sousaphone, and the occassional uilleann piper too... In a few fondly remembered instances we had visiting bagpipes and one hell of an amazing tambourine player from Galicia. We've even had brass and even in groups. We even had a Welsh men's choir, oh yeah, and a few instances similar to the choir in Cape Breton too. An old and favoured acquaintance played the santouri (Greek hammered dulcimer with its own sustain pedal), and there's been a few folks with a cimbalom, the occassional clarinet (including a local Lancashire lad), a Hungarian group, a group of sitars (6) with tabla, oh yeah, and an African drum group with their drums...now they would put most bodhran players to shame and silence... What an absolute hoot. I wouldn't trade any of that for nothing, least of all the fear of anticipation. The good well outweight those few bad experiences, when you really weigh it all up, for us anyway.
All fears aside, we have been blessed more than damned by opening up to the unexpected and setting our biases and sinking feelings aside, for the moment, to welcome a stranger amongst us. Hell, any 'stranger' instills a little fear in us all, not so much what they bring with themselves and their ways, or by what their packing and its size and volume, but that fear about what they might make of us and our little gathering...
Did I forget the old-time musicians? ~ including one 'famous' / 'infamous' Ulster Irish fiddler who loved old-time and bluegrass... These were all moments in a sequence that mostly had us sawing away in our usual inimitable fashions... These strangers and strange times were just pips along the way, raising our appreciation of the wider world of music. I just hope that someday I get to experience a Mariachi band visiting an Irish session, that would be scary and exhilirating and a hell of a lot of fun... I love those big bass guitars... It will have to be a bottle of mescal all around, with the worm...
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Nick's essay on "average" misses an important point: Yes, average players make average music. But surely an average session lasts 3 or four hours? Plenty of time to hear awful music and music to fill you with awe. Great players never ever mind hearing the odd beginner, and vice verca. And I wouldn't even mind hearing the odd hammer dulcimer. It's the "laa bloody night" thing that wrecks a session.
(and the concertina is an odd thing ... you squeeze it, press a little button and out comes a note. You have no control of the pitch, the attack or the tone. very difficult to make music under such limmitations, but it can be done)
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
I remember our publican's negative response to attendance by a string bass player a few years ago--"For God's sake, he takes up space that could be filled by two more payin' customers."
Bass and cello, we've had some mighty nights with both, though it was a bit more cramped with that big fiddle taking up all that space. Like anything, add another, or more, say a couple of upright basses or a couple of hammered dulcimers or more ~ it does get crowded quickly. That said, it doesn't happen that often and maybe the need to get some sanity in such a squeeze could come along after the salutations and welcome... It is always easy to get agreement after you've shared a few laughs and tunes together...at least for those of a reasonable nature... Some folks just don't have a clue, and they never will if we don't 'discuss' it with them... If they really do love the music, then letting space for others, in the geographic or musical sense, shouldn't be a problem...
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
"So maybe we should take whatever comes, certain in the knowledge that hardly any truly wondrous sessions ever happened for being planned......" - aint that the truth! Well said Julia.
Nick - at last, someone who writes even longer postings than meself!
Aye, if all our sessions were brilliant ones, we would get so bored with them we'd probably give up.
Isn't it the very uncertainty of each session that helps to keep us interested?
Oh & yes, I was that masked man - by the Bank of Ireland & the Piano. Good to hear you are still playing Nick.
As some have hinted at above, it is the very unknown quality of the newcomers ability that is the exciting thing & can turn out to make a session very often - nothing bores me quicker at a session than the predictable!
"Worse, in Ptram's equation, they didn't just snub the visitors, they also snubbed a regular, Ptarm himself."
- Aye, well Ceolachan, but that didnae bother me one bit, for after a few years spent on this sight has given me a 'very thick skin'
I can give it out so I have to be prepared take it too - but it was surely no way to treat strangers!
I also agree with ceolachan when he says that some of the most memorable nights we've had at sessions here, have been when the unexpected has wandered in through the door!
Anyway guys n gals, there may be a light at the end of the tunnel!
You might like to know that the following night we had a beezer of a session, in a different pub, to which no fewer than FOUR Hammered Dulcimer players turned up, (I left mine at home!) & we had two singers, one Northumbrian Piper, one Uilleann Piper/Flute player, a Harp/Fife player, two fiddlers & a Bodhran player.
After seven years in this venue, this was by far the best night we have ever had.
Lovely varied music & the crowd were right behind us all the way.
This session just proved how successful a session can be, even if you have HD players!
But seriously, it showed just how much fun everyone can have when visiting musicians are treated with respect & a friendly welcome & invited unreservedly into the body of your session.
OK you might get your ears burned an odd time, but the good times will certainly far outweigh the bad!
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
OK OK Ceolachan - "The Greeks don't call anything with hammers a 'dulcimer'..."
I suppose I should have been more specific, so here goes:
"combination of a Latin word, "dulci", meaning "sweet", and a Greek word, "melos", meaning "sound", which comprise the word "dulcimer" http://www.sweetsongstringband.com/
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Naw, them kantele yolks are no fun at all ceolachan. Sure you only get to gently pluck or strum them - not like the good old HD which you can batter the bejayzus out of & annoy all around you!
I have no doubt that, were 'llig leahcim' to respond, he too would probably use the word 'painfully', but perhaps in a slightly different way!
....now where's that old reconciliation MP3 ..................................
Hey, guess what Ptarm, I may have known 'llig leahcim's' great grandaddy. I'll have to ask him. It was another 'llig leahcim', but possibly more personable and easy going...
One of my favourite tracks ever is the one from "The Third Man" ~ but that was a zither, but the same family, sort of, good ol' Anton Karas, he was brilliant...
The biggest hammered dulcimer I've ever had the pleasure of was a cimbalom. Now that really is a small piano with the top ripped off. I would love to see 'llig' cornered by one of those...
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
"but possibly more personable and easy going..." - surely that is not possible!
"I would love to see 'llig' cornered by one of those..."
- Fear not Ceolachan, your wish is my command, for I have sent llig a wee present via Sandy Bells, & as we speak they are moving the table out, to make way for this!:
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Speaking of Gil, ceolachan - you know of Gordon Giltrap I'm sure, well I'm sure you will also be beside yourself with feelings of wonderment & awe when I tell you that a Headkeeper on a neighbouring estate to the one I worked on in Co Meath, '69 to '71, was one 'Bob Giltrap' - great name for a Gamekeeper, eh!
My own Headkeeper's name was actually Sam Holt (as in Otter's home!)
Only, can you please include links from the pictures to larger pictures, and some information in the ALT tags as to who's who and what's what. I'd love to see a larger picture of John Rea's Dulcimer, and maybe a few close ups of specifics. That would be great...
So, is that bearded bloke in the first picture in the row, the black and white one, is that you with hair, and then the fifth one along, is that you without hair and in a more serious mood? ~ scary...
Oh yes, and especially, maybe at least one MP3 of John's playing...priceless... John Rea & Sean McAloon, both big hearted and open to anything, always a welcome. I'm guessing you know the story about the Scots Guard soldiers that went to visit Sean, being all musicians, he welcomed them in. The next week the IRA blew up one of Sean's houses... So the story goes. But that in no way would put a damper on the hospitality and warm welcome of either of these two men... So the story goes, and I've never heard a bad word said against either...
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Hi Ceolachan,
Aye them youngsters can run rings round me too when it comes to birds & bees etc!
Sorry, those are as large as those pictures go - space restrictions!
However, you can see another two of Alec Magee's Dulcimers in the photos of Nat & William on this page:
Unfortunately, I have not yet worked out how to put sound onto my site - sorry!
As to who the two bearded blokes are in the wee photos - first is Rick Davis, a Champion HD player from North Carolina who has spent time up here for the past three years, spreading the gospel according to St. Dulci Melos!: http://www.cutedogmusic.com/cdm_nav.html
Any Neanderthal that can shake an egg like that is my friend and I shouldn't think would leave either of us worried... I'm sitting still to enjoy the percussion. I still remember piling up a load of stones on one beach, long flat things that rang, spending a hell of a lot of time finding a key's worth, and then playing the stone marimba with driftwood hammers as bit as my arms. It was one of the most beautiful set of tones I've ever had the pleasure of. As I was doing this an electric storm was building out at sea and heading my way ~ maybe I'd angered the gods?
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
P.S. Do you think, if I'd told llig leahcim the truth, that in fact the instigator of this move was actually a 'Bodhran player', who was looking down his nose at stringed instruments & their players, it would have changed his response to this question?
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
llig, pack a bag, I've booked you a flight to Michigan!
Hold the phone, I've just had an interesting E-mail from a lad by the name of Tom, who read this thread & was amazed that I was celebrating the fact that we had a whole '3' HDs at a session!
Anyway, Tom had this to say:
"I live in Michigan, US and it is a hotbed of dulcimers!
I go to a wonderful festival in Evart, Michigan where I have played with as many as 305 HDs together!"
Damn Ptarm, and talking about us behind our backs. I love the photos above. I especially love the Giant's Causeway when it is really p*ssin' down rain and the wind is howling and the waves are going skyward in explosions against the stones... I miss it...
Thanks for the link, it is nice to see someone is showing care and consideration after the fact.
It doesn't surprise me, the bodhan player, they don't like the competition, but they get so much grief that it builds up and they're desperate to find someone else to pick on ~ anything vaguely threatening to compete percussion wise, like the banjo for example, or anyone coming in carrying an upright piano. I once saw, sadly, a group of lads pull a piano out of a pub in Lisdoonvarna and kick the shight out of it and jump up and down on the poor innocent thing... I think it was a bodhran convention...
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
"Fault Yuh!" ~ or "putting the finger on someone", catching them out for one of the many possible infractions of the rules and regulations ~ getting the black dot on a card...ye pirates... Shiver me timbers... Damn Polly, would yuh quite sh*tin' on my good coat...
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
I expect some will remember the BBC TV comedy series "Fawlty Towers", a few years ago, about a hotel run by a manic hotelier (played by John Cleese). I've wondered if "Fawlty" was a clever pun on both "Faulte" and "faulty" -- the hotelier's name was Basil Fawlty.
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
No-one should ever join a session unless invited to do so. Even if so invited, the invitee should have the sensitivity to discern whether or not his/her playing is appreciated & welcomed, and should bloody well shut up if it is not. The trouble with most bad players is that they do not know that they are bad.
So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Well, to help you decide, here's a tale which 'should' make you curl your toes with embarrassment!
To start with, here’s a quote from a webpage on “Notes On Jams And Jam Etiquette”:
From: http://www.s-w-b-a.com/pickerscorner/etiquette.htm
“GO OUT OF YOUR WAY TO BE WELCOMING AND HELPFUL TO NEW COMERS"
Or as this page puts it: http://www.nighteaglecafe.org/shows/irishsession_etiquette.html
“THERE ARE RULES OF COURTESY”
So how many of you nod approval at these sentiments, when reading them - but in practice, throw these principals right out the window in real life & just resort to your every day bad manners & selfish, self-centred approach to life?
OK - While you are thinking about your answer, here’s the story:
At a session here, this week, I witnessed some ITMs do just that!
Two passing through musicians, one from North Carolina & ‘tother from Lancashire arrived early at our session, in the heart of rural Ulster, but when these four generous spirits arrived, instead of giving these musicians the ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’ treatment, they instead, decided to give these visitors a wide berth & started another session in another part of the pub.
Now, I can hear you all shake your heads in disgust, but to qualify the story a little, I have to admit that the two strangers were playing Hammered Dulcimers, [ I know - not ‘the’ most popular of instruments in Ireland it has to be said ] but I like to think that, were I faced with the same scene on arrival, I would have been a big enough person to have treated the strangers with, even just a little, respect & courtesy.
Surely we should treat other musicians the way we would hope to be treated ourselves, when we arrived ourselves, at a strange session, in a strange town?
I like to think that, had I even walked in and found two strange Harp players, or two strange Banjo players, or even {dare I say it?}......two strange Bodhran players, I would still have joined them, introduced myself & played music with them.
This sad tale reminds me of that old adage, (perhaps it’s from the Bible?):
“TO BREAK BREAD WITH STRANGERS AND LEAVE THE TABLE WITH FRIEND”
Unfortunately, our Dulcimer players in this story left this particular table with no new friends.
So, my question is this - (& be honest – please) how many folks here would have done likewise & burned off the HD players, & started up elsewhere?
On the other hand, how many people here find this attitude totally unacceptable & believe that this type of ill-mannered behaviour only serves to give ITM a bad name & does nothing to encourage the desired reputation which the rest of us strive each week to give our beloved ITM?
I used to think this type of unfortunate type of behaviour was only to be found in our impersonal big city sessions, & just put it down to ‘them poor ignorant city folk who are - ‘more to be pitied than scolded’’, but this bad attitude, it appears, is creeping into, what were formerly, warm, friendly country town sessions in Ireland, too!
[ We’re DOOMED, we’re ALL DOOMED! – http://www.davecovcomedy.co.uk/whispersfromwalmington/sounds/dontpanicdontpanic.wav ]
In a review of this very session, carried out by MacSpy a few years ago, he ended the article with:
“I would say that anyone coming across Mr Glasgow & friends would certainly get the proper welcome & encouragement which should be afforded to all who travel with tunes in their heart. Well done lads....”
Sadly, I think MacSpy would need to edit that quote now, in the light of last week’s display, to read “Mr Glasgow '& some of his friends'”
Someone once described our session as - "the best wee session in Ireland" - but sadly, we have a long way to go, & a lot of work to do, before we can even think of printing that particular T Shirt for ourselves!
So is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’? – sadly, I think, not yet!
# Posted on June 3rd 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
"Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares"
# Posted on June 3rd 2006 by dafydd
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
(I like their list in the second link you posted:
instruments may include: accordion, banjo, concertina, irish flute, harp, hammered dulcimer, penny whistle, small pipes, uilleann pipes, Mandolin, citern/bouzouki, and guitar.
Hmm, that's half the musisians I know not welcome then)
But to answer the question:
It depends.
The HD is such a horrid thing, and two is worse than twice as bad. And you must admit that a basic rule of session etiquette is "if you are a new visitor to an established session, the worse thing you can do is turn up early, sit at the regulars' table, and start without them".
So I'm picturing this ... I turn up for my weekly diddle, and a pair of uninvited eejits are making a right royal racket. It"s quite possible they'd get the cold shoulder from me
# Posted on June 3rd 2006 by llig leahcim
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
I'll grant you, the HD is not the most popular of instruments 'llig leahcim', but, & let me get this straight, what your saying is that - anyone that you don't actually invite yourself 'llig leahcim', to 'your' session, is then by your definition, an "uninvited eejit"?
Ah folks, now don't you just love the warm, friendly inviting atmosphere of the Traditional Irish Session? ....!
For anyone who is not actually familiar with the sound of the Hammered Dulcimer in Irish Music, & doesn't have a blanket prejudice against this instrument, you might like to take a listen to the MP3s on this page & judge for yourself.
I know you won't 'all' like this sound, first time round, but then we all have our own preferences.
http://www.cliffmoses.com/Curlews.html
Interesting, isn't it, that revered musicians of the calibre of Seamus Connolly, Josephine Keegan & Tony Smith appear to be quite happy to be associated with this "horrid thing"!
Makes me wonder what sort of reaction was encountered by the first musician to ever 'dare' to bring a Banjo, or Mandolin, or Bouzouki, or Cittern, or Mandola to a session - especially if they were (perish the thought - oh sin of all sins) - UNINVITED!
Maybe I'll just give up ITM altogether & take up a new hobby -like watching football!
Now football supporters, there's a nice bunch of lads who always know how to welcome strangers into their midst! - especially if they're wearing a jumper - of a 'colour' they don't like!
# Posted on June 3rd 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Sorry llig leahcim, forgot to answer your other point.
"And you must admit that a basic rule of session etiquette is "if you are a new visitor to an established session, the worse thing you can do is turn up early, sit at the regulars' table, and start without them".
Absolutely agree with you there. That is probably why these two set up, to the side, & well away from the 'Session Table' - so I don't think we can't fault them on that score.
I agree with you too that, normally, I wouldn't take my instrument out either at a strange session - until I'd been invited to do so, but as I was the first of the regulars to arrive & had already invited them to 'get them out', I think they were playing it by the book.
The other point to remember is that with a minimum of 50 strings to tune, it is considered standard practice, & proper manners for HD players to arrive early, so that they can be all tuned up & ready to go, & so not hold up the session.
We all know how long some Guitar/Cittern/Bouzouki/Mandola/Mandolin players can take to tune up!
Interesting too, in that list you mentioned - no mention of the beloved - Djembe!
# Posted on June 3rd 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Ptarmigan has opened up a very interesting discussion which lies at the crux of many session tensions. The question in its starkest form is this: should anyone be welcome to a session, no matter how bad a player they are, or what instrument they bring with them, on the basis that they have made the effort to come and it is only common politeness to welcome them; or are certain people excluded or discouraged on the grounds that it is "bad for the music" to have them there in a playing capacity?
# Posted on June 3rd 2006 by Nick Spencer
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Aye Nick, I suppose that's it in a nutshell - although, as you may have noticed, I have never been one for nutshells myself!
Incidentally, you appear to be sitting very comfortably on ther fence there Nick - any opinions yourself?
Are you in favour of throwing your session wide open,?
Or do you have a list of instruments you would prefer to see totally banned from ever darkening your session's door?
I can understand that odd instruments like Trumpet, Djembe, Trombone etc, which have no history in ITM would be viewed by one & all with raised eyebrows, were they to be produced at our sacred weekly gatherings, but in the case in point, the instruments in question have a far longer history of being made & played in Co Antrim, (appx 200 years - N.B. - first Irish record iwas around 1740s - in Dublin) than at least two of the instruments used in the 'other' session that night!
Is there any record of a Guitar or Bodhran actually being played with Traditional Music before the 1950s I wonder?
If, as I suspect, not, then 'perhaps', & I did say perhaps, the HDs had in fact more of a historical & traditional claim to be in a Co Antrim session than the Geetar & Bod U Ran?
# Posted on June 3rd 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Nick, can I just make one further point, re: your - "no matter how bad a player they are" There is no way whatsoever that these two players could 'ever' be classed as bad players, as they are both highly respected & influential full time musicians.
Of course you would have to actually listen to them, to realise that fact in the first place!
I should perhaps, also say here that the treatment they received was treated by each of them, like water off a ducks back!
I'm sure they have, like most of us, regrettably, seen this sort of thing so many times before & are probably of the same opinion as myself that the perpetrators are more to be pitied than scolded!
# Posted on June 3rd 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Frankly, it sounds like rather bad behavior on all sides. Even at my geekiest early-session days, I never set up and started playing. I was at a session recently where a visitor behaved rather badly (e.g., insisting on playing when she didn't know the tune). But even this person had emailed the anchor beforehand to confirm that the session was happening and that visitors were welcome.
On the other hand, I think if we close ourselves off to newcomers -- including those who may not have the etiquette down yet -- it might well turn out to be our (the session's) loss.
# Posted on June 3rd 2006 by cathrynb
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Practically speaking, the way it happens in my neck of the woods is like this:
Yes, everybody is welcomed. Everybody who turns up with an instrument case is gently ribbed until they "get it out and giz a tune". What happens next is largely up to them. If they happen to be nice agreeable people, they will continue to be welcomed, if they are not, and they commit session fopars, they will either be cold shouldered or worse. And this really is regardless of the instrument.
(However, we'd concider loudly bashing hundreds of metal strings streched taughtly across a large wooden box with almost infinate sustain - imagine a piano with the sustain pedal stuck in the on position -, all night, a session fopar.)
# Posted on June 3rd 2006 by llig leahcim
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
In fact, imagine a piano with he sustain pedal stuck in the on position and the hammers made of wood instead of felt, and the front and the top of. Tasteful eh.
# Posted on June 3rd 2006 by llig leahcim
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
My worst fear is that other people think that a session I'm in is snobby and won't play for that reason. But it has to be said there are rules to session etiquette and it's really irritating when you can't just sit down and have a crankin tune. However, there are tons of people who don't know them and you can't hold it against them cos they'll learn eventually and why turn them away from the music before they've even had a chance to?
# Posted on June 3rd 2006 by sneetch
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT ME WHEN I SHOW UP IN YOUR PUB:
I AM A YANKEE.
I AM A FIDDLE PLAYER.
I HAVE BEEN PLAYING FOR 4 YEARS.
I AM STARTING TO GO TO JAMS & SESSIONS.
I LIKE BLUEGRASS, OLD TIME, IRISH TRAD., CELTIC & TEXAS SWING.
I CAN'T TAKE A BREAK TO SAVE MY LIFE.
I CAN PLAY BRITCHES FULL OF STITCHES
Until I open my mouth, nobody knows any of this when I walk into a jam or session, except for the fiddle (although it may be a tommy gun). ;)
How am I supposed to know the rules and etti-ket when I walk into a new environment? The assumption that I should know is a dangerous one.
If you really want to protect the music, send a party out to fend me off before I put my foot in it. I will promise not to make assumptions about your space, but somebody needs to meet me half way.
Maybe sessions and jams would get along better if a person was given the job of official greeter and vetter.
# Posted on June 3rd 2006 by Meri-pixie
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
And by the way, I'm happy to take that job if I ever become a regular.
# Posted on June 3rd 2006 by Meri-pixie
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
I know what your saying cathrynb, { "Even at my geekiest early-session days, I never set up and started playing." } but the fact is, these musicians didn't take out & set up UNTIL I'd actually asked them to, so I don't believe that there was any bad behavour on there part, AT ALL!
"In fact, imagine a piano with he sustain pedal stuck in the on position and the hammers made of wood instead of felt, and the front and the top of. Tasteful eh."
- OK llig leahcim, I'm afraid you are now clearly showing your ignorance now, of this instrument you say you don't like!
Point No 1 - the fact is most HD players have a choice of numerous hammers & usually play with hammers which have either a thin or a thick strip of felt on the Hammers!
http://www.causewaymusic.co.uk/hammers.html
Point No 2 - a lot of HDs these days are made with dampers fitted so that they need have no more sustain than any other instrument in the session!
http://www.causewaymusic.co.uk/hddamper.html
You see llig – a little knowledge IS a dangerous thing!
Of course if you just wish to slag off instruments for the sake of it, we can all have a right good laugh now about all the skretchy fiddles, & ear piercing whistles, & out of tune flutes, & jangly thrashy Guitars, Bouzoukis, Citterns & Mandolas that drown us out, or the miming Mandolinists you can't hear, or rumpity, lumpity, tumpity Bodhran players etc, etc - now, wasn't that fun? ......Did I miss anyone out? Happy now llig?
Oh no, don't mention that dreaded word snobby here sneetch, for pitty's sake!.........................
"How am I supposed to know the rules and etti-ket when I walk into a new environment?"
- that's the point Meri-pixie, you should be considered innocent until proven guilty, then & only then, as 'llig' says - "they will either be cold shouldered or worse."
# Posted on June 3rd 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
"Maybe sessions and jams would get along better if a person was given the job of official greeter and vetter."
"And by the way, I'm happy to take that job if I ever become a regular."
Very sad that it would ever have to come to that!
But how about this Meri-pixie:
“We ask that musicians interested in coming to play the session please email your RSVP to .........”
http://www.nighteaglecafe.org/shows/irishsession_etiquette.html
& they also say - "one bodhran/guitar/bouzouki plays at a time" - WHAT, & they actually let these players in!!
# Posted on June 3rd 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Is it possible that the regulars are shy people who aren't comfortable with strangers and strange instruments? Who, on reflection, might wish they'd acted differently?
# Posted on June 3rd 2006 by fidkid
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
How are you suppoosed to know the rules and "etti-ket"
Well, maybe you don't know them upon arrival, but a lot can be learned from casual observation, and not assumong anything from the start.
The assumption that you would have no manners to do so is just as dangerous.
# Posted on June 3rd 2006 by Sunnybear
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Couldn't wait any longer for someone to spell Cead Mile Failte correctly, so there it is, barring the fact that there should be a fada over the first 'e', the first 'i' and the second 'a', but I don't know how to do that....
# Posted on June 3rd 2006 by E
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
For anyone who doesn't know, it means "to commit a thousand faux pas", (or is it fopars?)...
# Posted on June 3rd 2006 by Dow
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
(and before anyone corrects me: I'm joking)
# Posted on June 3rd 2006 by Dow
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
ha, that's funny dow.
The thing about awfull instruments though, which I find fascinating, is that you can always find someone who makes them sound brilliant. Noel Hill and the concertina for example, Donal Lunny and the bodhran etc.
This is why, as I said earlier, that everyone is welcome, even hammer dulcimer players. You never know when that genius might turn up out of the blue. However, that small window of proof is tough if you are not up to it.
But Oh the joy when a stranger arrives and they can really play. Makes any amount of initial toleration of dross worth while.
I supose the point is that it's not open music, I'm sorry, but it;s just not. It's a very specific clique. It's really not open to interpretation in the normal "jam" sense of the word.
# Posted on June 4th 2006 by llig leahcim
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
We must break down sessions into IT sessions and TM sessions. First me must define the difference,
Pta... whens your new novel coming out ?
# Posted on June 4th 2006 by Ripthecalico
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Well, pray tell, how would that help us in this case 21061?
After all, the HD has been played in Ireland since the early 1700s, & in Scotland & England long before that & it is a regular participant at Old Time sessions over in the States!
However, I'd be interested to hear your definition of the one thing & the other?
"whens your new novel coming out?" - any suggestions on suitable subject matter 21061
# Posted on June 4th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
If I happened into my local with my fiddle and there were two HD players there that I didn't know and they were playing some tunes, I would be overjoyed and would ask THEM, could I join in.
But that's because where I live, there are no regular sessions. I can drive 3 - 4 hours roundtrip to Seattle or Portland for a "great" session, but that's a long haul.
So, my answer is I would welcome them. But I don't have a regular session, so my response is based simply on my desperation to hear/meet/play with new live musicians in the town where I live. It's different for all of you who have regular sessions with leaders and rules and etiquette and an understanding of fopars. And I understand that.
But if there were HD players from North Carolina and Lancashire in my town and I happened to meet up with him/her, I would just want to hear them play tunes and then play along with them if I knew any of the tunes they were playing.
And if those two HD players (or either one of them) were to come to Olympia, they would be most welcome. Let me know ahead of time if you're coming and we'll set things up for you.
# Posted on June 4th 2006 by John Culhane
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Yes John, your reaction is the one I'd expect from most musicians. Two musicians appear & you want to hear what they can do, before pre-judging them - a natural, healthy attitude I reckon.
I believe most musicians do start out with this, what I would consider, healthy attitude, but sadly, somewhere along the road they develop these little hitler-like ideas of grandeur, & a little devil hops up on ther shoulder & tells them they are better than everyone else!
Another sign of this, is that dreadful business of musicians shouting aggresively at the punters, & demanding that they be silent while someone sings or plays a slow air - this is another faux pas, in my book of rules of good manners & etiquette, & always makes me squirm in my seat with utter embarrassment & certainly does nothing to endear any stranger to us or our music.
"And if those two HD players (or either one of them) were to come to Olympia, they would be most welcome." - I'll be sure to let them know - & who knows ........
# Posted on June 4th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
In my humble opinion what is required is patience not tolerance.
I do not believe that we all have an infinite number of 'crankin' session in our lives.
If we wait patiently through all the many variables that come and go in sessions then several things seem to logically follow:
1. A 'crankin' session may surprise us when we least expect it.
2. When the 'crankin session turns up it will be a true joy for being an 'occaision'
3. If we only have a certain number of such awesome sessions in our life then why rush them? I want some left for when I'm older.
4. Bizarre, unsettling and downright odd sessions give us as much to talk about after.......
So maybe we should take whatever comes, certain in the knowledge that hardly any truly wondrous sessions ever happened for being planned......
And the 'rich tapestry of sessions' will be beautiful when it is complete.........
# Posted on June 4th 2006 by tallulah
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
The music is only one part of a session. There is also a social part, an educational part, and a part that is about allowing and encouraging people to approach traditional music. Sometimes these different aspects are at odds with one another, and it stands to reason that as the quality of music in a session gets higher, the more difficult it is to be inclusive and to maintain that quality. So we have the tension between those who think sessions are about participation, and those who think they are about producing good music.
Let us agree for the sake of argument, that there is such a thing as an 'average' player; that is a player that is neither especially good or bad; and that a session composed of average players is going to be an average session producing average music. If we are in this hypothetical average session, then the chances of any unknown player walking in off the street and making it much better or worse than it already is, is very small, because the musical ability of the new player is more likely than anything else to be average, or not very much above or below average. The conclusion to be reached from this is that an average session can afford to be very inclusive: everyone who comes in can get their instrument out and join in, because the musical quality of the session is unlikely to suffer as a result.
Move the musical quality of the session up a few notches though, so it is composed of above-average players making above-average music, and the situation changes. Any unknown player wandering into the session is, just as before, still most likely to be an average or near-average player, and therefore someone who will lower the quality of music in the above-average session. The higher the quality of the session therefore, the less likely it is that any unknown player is good enough to join in without lowering the quality of the music. The conclusion to be reached from this is that high quality sessions that are prioritising the quality of the music have to be exclusive, and prevent unknown players from joining in, otherwise they become diluted down to average status.
This latter argument will cheer the hearts of those who prioritise musical quality over the social, cultural and educational function of sessions, and will offend those like Ptarmigan who inhabit the opposing camp. To respond to Ptarmigan's earlier question, and shift off the fence a little, I love to hear a good quality session, but in a sense it is their very rarity that makes them good; I do not enjoy listening to bad players, but if they are playing the fiddle I expect to learn something from them, because they always have something unique that might work somewhere in a tune, or some fault that is only an exaggeration of my own faults and therefore a lesson to be learned. As I am now beginning to sound like some sort of session-saint who tolerates everything with a beatific smile, let me also say that I can only put up with bad playing for a certain amount of time; if someone is really bad, and persistently joining in, then usually I write it off as a duff session and ship out, however on occasions when the session was a rare occurrence, such as at one of the 2 or 3 festivals I get to, and has a core of musicians capable of producing something good, then I have told bad, persistent players to pack it in, or told them to go and learn their instrument properly. It is unpleasant but it is usually what everyone secretly wants but is too polite, or cautious, to say.
Having said all that, if a hammer dulcimer player from North Carolina turned up at our session, he or she would be welcomed very warmly and we would enjoy whatever they produced. It seems unlikley that anyone who lugged an HD across the Atlantic would be a bad player, and must certainly be an enthusiast if nothing else. Not only would they get a hearing, but probably a bed for the night, and a tour of the locality the next day. However, our session is not above average, and is in a sparsely populated area where visitors are a rarity. I share the views of John and Julia.
# Posted on June 4th 2006 by Nick Spencer
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Nick,
Would an "average player" necessarily dilute a session? Is it not possible that he/she will raise their game a bit to try and achieve the higher standard there?
Obviously, this will not always be the case and not if they (the average players) came en masse but if the occasional player entered the session with the right attitude, surely this wouldn't cause that many problems?
I say all that as an very average player, of course.
However, I've often participated in sessions where musicians are much better than me. Generally, I will not try to play if I don't know a tune or risk putting others off. Also, if it's busy, I'd naturally make way for a better and/or regular player.
I used the word "generally" above because, like everyone else, I've been guilty of indiscretions in my time. As I grow older but not always wiser, these are, hopefully, much fewer and further between.
# Posted on June 4th 2006 by Johannes J
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Hey gill, what's so "awfull" about the concertina?
# Posted on June 4th 2006 by ridgeback3
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Of course my argument is hypothetical, and one could see a situation where an above-average player, but with a different style, or an unorthodox instrument might be seen as 'diluting' a session. The situation you speak of, where an average player raises his game in response to the music around him is I think an important function of sessions, and it is important for players who want to improve to be encouraged by those who have already solved some of the problems they are currently struggling with. Certainly I was encouraged when I was a very raw player and will always be thankful to those who were so generous. Incidentally, some of these people lived in Dublin, on Ballyfermot Parade, when I went on my first fiddle pilgrimage to Ireland in the late 70s, armed with about 6 primitive tunes and a large quantity of ignorance, the depths of which I come to appreciate more and more with the passage of time. They had never met me before, but made me welcome and took me to sessions in the city and taught me a great deal. One of these was James Beatley, and another if I have it right, was a certain Ptarmigan that nested temporarily in the back room on the floor beside the piano, and ventured out every morning to busk at the Bank of Ireland. Thanks guys.
# Posted on June 4th 2006 by Nick Spencer
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Apart from the Plastic-Paddy-Wild-Rover "sessions", are there any sessions with "average" players in Ireland? Everyone seems to have played since birth.
# Posted on June 4th 2006 by geoffwright
‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’! :-|
I worry whenever an instrument case comes through the door that demands its own seat (uilleann pipe sized boxes on up), and that includes the likes of the uncased too, like Sousaphones...
With hammered dulcimers, well, there are other reasons for fear, bad experiences from the past ~ volume, sustain, big egos, lack of consideration for others, including the music, taking up a quarter of the space in an already tight pub session ~ one in particular who joined us and then set about taking over everything with themselves as the focus and 'director' ~ it's hard to fight the overwhelming characteristics of volume and someone with a hammer in both hands and fire in their eyes...
No, don't get me wrong, we actually like the instrument, in the right hands and circumstances, and we've known a 'few' considerate players who don't feel the need to beat their melodic drum, whatever pair of sticks they choose, through every damned tune, whether or not they really understand it ~ without any subtlety of tone or rhythmic variance. Hey, not that it qualifies us for anything, but we have been in a few 'ensembles' that included it as one of many choices to weave a melody line with, have had the HD friend or two...
BUT! ~ WHATEVER! ~ we wouldn't be rude to newcomers and visitors and snub them. We'd be damned in our own eyes if we allowed our initial sinking feelings and fear to rule over sense and quash the fire in our hearts for hospitality and basic courtesy. Worse, in Ptram's equation, they didn't just snub the visitors, they also snubbed a regular, Ptarm himself. If we let our sinking fealings, those butterflies and past experiences and fears, however well supported by experience, interfer with living life fully, musical or otherwise, that would mean us missing out on a hell of a lot of past and future fun ~ good humour and laughter we've had the pleasure of being part of in the social process of sharing music. This loss would include joys with the unlikely combination of hammered dulcimer and Sousaphone, and the occassional uilleann piper too... In a few fondly remembered instances we had visiting bagpipes and one hell of an amazing tambourine player from Galicia. We've even had brass and even in groups. We even had a Welsh men's choir, oh yeah, and a few instances similar to the choir in Cape Breton too. An old and favoured acquaintance played the santouri (Greek hammered dulcimer with its own sustain pedal), and there's been a few folks with a cimbalom, the occassional clarinet (including a local Lancashire lad), a Hungarian group, a group of sitars (6) with tabla, oh yeah, and an African drum group with their drums...now they would put most bodhran players to shame and silence... What an absolute hoot. I wouldn't trade any of that for nothing, least of all the fear of anticipation. The good well outweight those few bad experiences, when you really weigh it all up, for us anyway.
All fears aside, we have been blessed more than damned by opening up to the unexpected and setting our biases and sinking feelings aside, for the moment, to welcome a stranger amongst us. Hell, any 'stranger' instills a little fear in us all, not so much what they bring with themselves and their ways, or by what their packing and its size and volume, but that fear about what they might make of us and our little gathering...
# Posted on June 5th 2006 by ceolachan
‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’! :-|
Did I forget the old-time musicians? ~ including one 'famous' / 'infamous' Ulster Irish fiddler who loved old-time and bluegrass... These were all moments in a sequence that mostly had us sawing away in our usual inimitable fashions... These strangers and strange times were just pips along the way, raising our appreciation of the wider world of music. I just hope that someday I get to experience a Mariachi band visiting an Irish session, that would be scary and exhilirating and a hell of a lot of fun... I love those big bass guitars... It will have to be a bottle of mescal all around, with the worm...
# Posted on June 5th 2006 by ceolachan
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Nick's essay on "average" misses an important point: Yes, average players make average music. But surely an average session lasts 3 or four hours? Plenty of time to hear awful music and music to fill you with awe. Great players never ever mind hearing the odd beginner, and vice verca. And I wouldn't even mind hearing the odd hammer dulcimer. It's the "laa bloody night" thing that wrecks a session.
(and the concertina is an odd thing ... you squeeze it, press a little button and out comes a note. You have no control of the pitch, the attack or the tone. very difficult to make music under such limmitations, but it can be done)
# Posted on June 5th 2006 by llig leahcim
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
all bloody night
# Posted on June 5th 2006 by llig leahcim
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
gill, the same can be said of the accordion and yet there are many who can make great music with it.
# Posted on June 5th 2006 by ridgeback3
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
I remember our publican's negative response to attendance by a string bass player a few years ago--"For God's sake, he takes up space that could be filled by two more payin' customers."
# Posted on June 5th 2006 by AlBrown
‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’
Bass and cello, we've had some mighty nights with both, though it was a bit more cramped with that big fiddle taking up all that space. Like anything, add another, or more, say a couple of upright basses or a couple of hammered dulcimers or more ~ it does get crowded quickly. That said, it doesn't happen that often and maybe the need to get some sanity in such a squeeze could come along after the salutations and welcome... It is always easy to get agreement after you've shared a few laughs and tunes together...at least for those of a reasonable nature... Some folks just don't have a clue, and they never will if we don't 'discuss' it with them... If they really do love the music, then letting space for others, in the geographic or musical sense, shouldn't be a problem...
# Posted on June 5th 2006 by ceolachan
'easier', never necessarily 'easy'...
# Posted on June 5th 2006 by ceolachan
Cead Mile Failte!!!
Cead Mile Failte!!! ~ me failing eyes, I hadn't intended to be carrying forward the 'fault-yuh'...
# Posted on June 5th 2006 by ceolachan
Cead Mile Failte!!!
I'll take a hammered dulicimer any day over a hammered fiddler. One could lose an eye...
# Posted on June 5th 2006 by ceolachan
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
"So maybe we should take whatever comes, certain in the knowledge that hardly any truly wondrous sessions ever happened for being planned......" - aint that the truth! Well said Julia.
Nick - at last, someone who writes even longer postings than meself!
Aye, if all our sessions were brilliant ones, we would get so bored with them we'd probably give up.
Isn't it the very uncertainty of each session that helps to keep us interested?
Oh & yes, I was that masked man - by the Bank of Ireland & the Piano. Good to hear you are still playing Nick.
As some have hinted at above, it is the very unknown quality of the newcomers ability that is the exciting thing & can turn out to make a session very often - nothing bores me quicker at a session than the predictable!
"Worse, in Ptram's equation, they didn't just snub the visitors, they also snubbed a regular, Ptarm himself."
- Aye, well Ceolachan, but that didnae bother me one bit, for after a few years spent on this sight has given me a 'very thick skin'
I can give it out so I have to be prepared take it too - but it was surely no way to treat strangers!
I also agree with ceolachan when he says that some of the most memorable nights we've had at sessions here, have been when the unexpected has wandered in through the door!
Anyway guys n gals, there may be a light at the end of the tunnel!
You might like to know that the following night we had a beezer of a session, in a different pub, to which no fewer than FOUR Hammered Dulcimer players turned up, (I left mine at home!) & we had two singers, one Northumbrian Piper, one Uilleann Piper/Flute player, a Harp/Fife player, two fiddlers & a Bodhran player.
After seven years in this venue, this was by far the best night we have ever had.
Lovely varied music & the crowd were right behind us all the way.
This session just proved how successful a session can be, even if you have HD players!
But seriously, it showed just how much fun everyone can have when visiting musicians are treated with respect & a friendly welcome & invited unreservedly into the body of your session.
OK you might get your ears burned an odd time, but the good times will certainly far outweigh the bad!
# Posted on June 6th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Have your ears stopped ringing yet? Sorry I missed it...
# Posted on June 6th 2006 by ceolachan
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
SORRY, CAN YOU SPEAK UP CEOLACHAN, I DIDN'T CATCH THAT!
But seriously Sir, the word Dulcimer is apparently Greek for 'Sweet Sound' & I must admit it's always music to my ears!
# Posted on June 7th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
So Ptarm, have you had the grace of the Greek santouri yet, now that is bliss, or has been everytime I've had its pleasure...
# Posted on June 8th 2006 by ceolachan
The Greeks don't call anything with hammers a 'dulcimer'...
# Posted on June 8th 2006 by ceolachan
~
# Posted on June 8th 2006 by ceolachan
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
OK OK Ceolachan - "The Greeks don't call anything with hammers a 'dulcimer'..."
I suppose I should have been more specific, so here goes:
"combination of a Latin word, "dulci", meaning "sweet", and a Greek word, "melos", meaning "sound", which comprise the word "dulcimer"
http://www.sweetsongstringband.com/
The word dulcimer means sweet song from the Latin ‘dulce’ sweet and Greek ‘melos’ song or sound.
http://www.dentoncountyhistoricalmuseum.com/dulcidoodlers.html
Anyone who hasn’t heard a Santouri before can get a flavour of their 'melos' by listening to track 13 here:
http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/music/pid/2604126/a/Return+To+Our+Roots.htm
& finally, here's a wee tune especially for that wee ‘flower of Edinburgh – Dow!:
http://www.sweetsongstringband.com/songs/barndance/flowersofedinburgh.mp3
# Posted on June 8th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
& finally, here's a wee tune especially for that wee ‘flower of Edinburgh – llig leahcim!:
http://www.sweetsongstringband.com/songs/barndance/flowersofedinburgh.mp3
Sorry Dow - must stop posting at 5AM! - of course you are welcome to listen too!
# Posted on June 8th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Cead Mile Failte!!!
I love it ~ what a kick... I wish I'd wound you up sooner... I hope I'm taking this right, I can't stop laughing and it is starting to hurt...
# Posted on June 8th 2006 by ceolachan
Ouch! ~ that santouri clip was painfully too short...
So, are you familiar with the Finnish kantele?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kantele
http://www.kantele.com/
I am hoping that 'The Flowers of Edinburgh' is offered up in the spirit of 'peace and reconciliation'...
# Posted on June 8th 2006 by ceolachan
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Naw, them kantele yolks are no fun at all ceolachan. Sure you only get to gently pluck or strum them - not like the good old HD which you can batter the bejayzus out of & annoy all around you!
I have no doubt that, were 'llig leahcim' to respond, he too would probably use the word 'painfully', but perhaps in a slightly different way!
....now where's that old reconciliation MP3 ..................................
# Posted on June 8th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Cead Mile Failte ~ ?
Hey, guess what Ptarm, I may have known 'llig leahcim's' great grandaddy. I'll have to ask him. It was another 'llig leahcim', but possibly more personable and easy going...
One of my favourite tracks ever is the one from "The Third Man" ~ but that was a zither, but the same family, sort of, good ol' Anton Karas, he was brilliant...
The biggest hammered dulcimer I've ever had the pleasure of was a cimbalom. Now that really is a small piano with the top ripped off. I would love to see 'llig' cornered by one of those...
# Posted on June 8th 2006 by ceolachan
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
"but possibly more personable and easy going..." - surely that is not possible!
"I would love to see 'llig' cornered by one of those..."
- Fear not Ceolachan, your wish is my command, for I have sent llig a wee present via Sandy Bells, & as we speak they are moving the table out, to make way for this!:
http://www.rubylane.com/shops/harpgallery/item/cimerlrgx2eJPG
Thanks to Ed for supplying this site link.
# Posted on June 8th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Cead Mile Failte ~ ? ~ in closing - - -
http://www.cimbalom.org/
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jlo/
http://www.santoor.com/
http://www.santoor.com/cimbalom.html
http://www.cimbalom.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimbalom
# Posted on June 8th 2006 by ceolachan
YES ~ YES ~ YES ~
http://www.rubylane.com/ni/shops/harpgallery/iteml/cimerlrgx2eJPG#pic1
That I can imagine...
# Posted on June 8th 2006 by ceolachan
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Speaking of Gil, ceolachan - you know of Gordon Giltrap I'm sure, well I'm sure you will also be beside yourself with feelings of wonderment & awe when I tell you that a Headkeeper on a neighbouring estate to the one I worked on in Co Meath, '69 to '71, was one 'Bob Giltrap' - great name for a Gamekeeper, eh!
My own Headkeeper's name was actually Sam Holt (as in Otter's home!)
Now, where were we ....................
# Posted on June 8th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
You mentioned llig's grandaddy, well, could this be a photo of llig's Daddy
http://www.haworth-village.org.uk/nature/pictures/large-insects.asp?pic=7
Get it - daddy long lligs!
Och, this is getting silly - my fault I know - I'm awa' fur a tune - catch you later!
# Posted on June 8th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Down and Dirty ~
WHOA! ~ SEX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
# Posted on June 8th 2006 by ceolachan
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
No, I think they've just fallen out & are back to back cause they're just not speaking to each other!
Remember ceolachan, anyone of any age could be reading this nonsense & we surely don't want to be a bad influence on the younger generation now do we!
# Posted on June 9th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Birds, bees and daddy longlegs... I cease to be amazed at what the 'younger generation' know that I'm clueless about...
But back on topic, a link we should have included earlier ~
http://www.causewaymusic.co.uk/cdfhda.html
Only, can you please include links from the pictures to larger pictures, and some information in the ALT tags as to who's who and what's what. I'd love to see a larger picture of John Rea's Dulcimer, and maybe a few close ups of specifics. That would be great...
So, is that bearded bloke in the first picture in the row, the black and white one, is that you with hair, and then the fifth one along, is that you without hair and in a more serious mood? ~ scary...
# Posted on June 9th 2006 by ceolachan
Cead Mile Failte!!!
Oh yes, and especially, maybe at least one MP3 of John's playing...priceless... John Rea & Sean McAloon, both big hearted and open to anything, always a welcome. I'm guessing you know the story about the Scots Guard soldiers that went to visit Sean, being all musicians, he welcomed them in. The next week the IRA blew up one of Sean's houses... So the story goes. But that in no way would put a damper on the hospitality and warm welcome of either of these two men... So the story goes, and I've never heard a bad word said against either...
# Posted on June 9th 2006 by ceolachan
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Hi Ceolachan,
Aye them youngsters can run rings round me too when it comes to birds & bees etc!
Sorry, those are as large as those pictures go - space restrictions!
However, you can see another two of Alec Magee's Dulcimers in the photos of Nat & William on this page:
http://www.causewaymusic.co.uk/cdf06.html
& they are identical to John Rea's Dulcimer.
Unfortunately, I have not yet worked out how to put sound onto my site - sorry!
As to who the two bearded blokes are in the wee photos - first is Rick Davis, a Champion HD player from North Carolina who has spent time up here for the past three years, spreading the gospel according to St. Dulci Melos!:
http://www.cutedogmusic.com/cdm_nav.html
The 2nd is John Moulden, a walking encyclopedia on the songs of Ulster in particula & Ireland in general:
http://members.aol.com/jmoul81075/ulstsong.htm
As to specifics, Rick is working with a lot of info on John Rea, so watch this space .......
# Posted on June 9th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
particula - we, on occasion, have a posh voice!
# Posted on June 9th 2006 by Ptarmigan
:o
You, a POSH voice, now I am scared...
# Posted on June 9th 2006 by ceolachan
Thanks for all the help, including airing this discussion...and numerous other contributions... But I still want that bread recipe...
# Posted on June 9th 2006 by ceolachan
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Your welcome, & your wish is my command ceolachan! How about - 'BREAD PUDDING OF DEATH'!:
http://www.breadmachinedigest.com/recipes/bread_using_recipes/the_bread_machine_digests_bread_pudding_of_death.txt
....& don't forget to top it off with "crushed sugar sweetened strawberries and whipped cream."
- what a way to go ..................................................
# Posted on June 9th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Ceolachan - is this what you've been waiting to hear?:
A jazzy prelude on a Zither?:
If so, check out: demo_fINet.mp3
at:
http://mitglied.lycos.de/springwalker/demo_fINet.mp3
Now just imagine a Carolan piece treated like that, on this instrument?
If we 'all' had closed minds, sure we'd still just be banging rocks together in caves - & just dreaming of Shakey Eggs!
Sh*t, just had an image of a Dinosaur sized Shakey Egg! ......run away ....... run away....................................................
# Posted on June 10th 2006 by Ptarmigan
No worry ~
Any Neanderthal that can shake an egg like that is my friend and I shouldn't think would leave either of us worried... I'm sitting still to enjoy the percussion. I still remember piling up a load of stones on one beach, long flat things that rang, spending a hell of a lot of time finding a key's worth, and then playing the stone marimba with driftwood hammers as bit as my arms. It was one of the most beautiful set of tones I've ever had the pleasure of. As I was doing this an electric storm was building out at sea and heading my way ~ maybe I'd angered the gods?
# Posted on June 10th 2006 by ceolachan
No worry ~
Sadly, not portable, or maybe that is for the good of all sessions?
# Posted on June 10th 2006 by ceolachan
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Just think of all the fun you could have here then Ceolachan - or parhaps you'd just get 'stoned' - man!
http://www.pbase.com/image/33978808
# Posted on June 10th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
P.S. Do you think, if I'd told llig leahcim the truth, that in fact the instigator of this move was actually a 'Bodhran player', who was looking down his nose at stringed instruments & their players, it would have changed his response to this question?
# Posted on June 10th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: No worry ~
http://www.rock-on-rock-on.com
# Posted on June 10th 2006 by Phantom Button
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Phew! Nice one Button! That guy is clearly a - 'well balanced' - individual!
# Posted on June 11th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Anyone interested in seeing this, from a Dulcimer players point of view, might like to check out the replies to this same thread over at 'Everything Dulcimer':
http://www.everythingdulcimer.com/discussion/read.php?TID=7894&page=1#91089
# Posted on June 11th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
llig, pack a bag, I've booked you a flight to Michigan!
Hold the phone, I've just had an interesting E-mail from a lad by the name of Tom, who read this thread & was amazed that I was celebrating the fact that we had a whole '3' HDs at a session!
Anyway, Tom had this to say:
"I live in Michigan, US and it is a hotbed of dulcimers!
I go to a wonderful festival in Evart, Michigan where I have played with as many as 305 HDs together!"
Ahhhh now durnt that sound gooooood llig?
# Posted on June 19th 2006 by Ptarmigan
LLIG ~ They're talkin' about you!!!!!!!!
Damn Ptarm, and talking about us behind our backs. I love the photos above. I especially love the Giant's Causeway when it is really p*ssin' down rain and the wind is howling and the waves are going skyward in explosions against the stones... I miss it...
Thanks for the link, it is nice to see someone is showing care and consideration after the fact.
It doesn't surprise me, the bodhan player, they don't like the competition, but they get so much grief that it builds up and they're desperate to find someone else to pick on ~ anything vaguely threatening to compete percussion wise, like the banjo for example, or anyone coming in carrying an upright piano. I once saw, sadly, a group of lads pull a piano out of a pub in Lisdoonvarna and kick the shight out of it and jump up and down on the poor innocent thing... I think it was a bodhran convention...
# Posted on June 19th 2006 by ceolachan
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
you spelt cead mile failte wrong
# Posted on June 27th 2006 by BoxPlayer1989
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Sorry BoxPlayer1989, it was just my little pun - fault to faulte - get it? The fault being some musicians attitudes to others!
# Posted on July 6th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
"Fault Yuh!" ~ or "putting the finger on someone", catching them out for one of the many possible infractions of the rules and regulations ~ getting the black dot on a card...ye pirates... Shiver me timbers... Damn Polly, would yuh quite sh*tin' on my good coat...
# Posted on July 6th 2006 by ceolachan
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
I expect some will remember the BBC TV comedy series "Fawlty Towers", a few years ago, about a hotel run by a manic hotelier (played by John Cleese). I've wondered if "Fawlty" was a clever pun on both "Faulte" and "faulty" -- the hotelier's name was Basil Fawlty.
# Posted on July 6th 2006 by lazyhound
Re: So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
No-one should ever join a session unless invited to do so. Even if so invited, the invitee should have the sensitivity to discern whether or not his/her playing is appreciated & welcomed, and should bloody well shut up if it is not. The trouble with most bad players is that they do not know that they are bad.
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by Sean Lead Liath