I'm mostly just blowing off some steam here, but if anybody's got similar anecdotes or advice, fire away.
Last night we had the most disturbing night our session has ever seen, in nearly a decade of weekly meetings. There was a guy there, hanging all over us for four hours. We hadn't seen him before, so I don't know anything other than what I could surmise from his behavior.
He appeared to be quite drunk, but I didn't see him drinking heavily. He did say that he was on medication for high blood pressure and anxiety, so there may have been some interaction. His speech was rather garbled - not slurred, exactly - some words took several attempts to get out - probably not entirely due to alcohol.
He would come up close to nearly all eleven of us at one point or another, invade our personal space (to say the least), and tell us what we were doing right or wrong, what songs we should learn, how we should play, etc. He fondled several of us of both genders, somewhat beyond what generally happens in public, and certainly not what you'd expect from a stranger.
He also tried to get the bar to serve him free beer by claiming to be part of the session. When told that that was only for the regulars, he said he would be coming back every week! Fortunately the owner told him no. Unfortunately, they did continue to serve him.
He appeared to be at least somewhat knowledgeable about the music, claiming to play bodhran and whistle (I know, I know, that doesn't prove anything!) and trying to get us to sing Mary Black songs. It sounded like he had some sort of history with a long-defunct session 20 or 30 miles away, but he fortunately didn't go into full detail. He also kept saying that the older people are more appreciative of our music in general and his talents in particular.
One of the most annoying things was that he was attempting to direct the proceedings, telling some people to play louder, telling me to hold my head up when I play, telling us that "Sonny's Dream" should be sung by a woman instead of a man, etc. He says that next week he'll bring all of his music books and "if we find things we want to learn" (i.e. things he wants us to learn), he'll make copies for us.
And all of this would continue even while we were playing.
We basically put up with it, hoping that he'd go away and not come back, but now we're afraid that he might be serious about returning next week, or even every week.
Legal suggestions? Have the landlord ban him. If he shows up again, throw him out with the warning that if he comes back, he will be arrested for trespassing.
Some thoughts from my end, not that I am any sort of authority on the running of sessions.
Stand up firmly and quickly if he shows up again. The only job that goes away when you ignore it is drying dishes--it will be hard to confront this directly, but far less difficult than the pain that will occur if his behavior is not nipped in the bud.
This sounds like there might be medical problems involved, and at the very least, you have clear signs of antisocial behavior that does not respond to normal polite cues, all the more reason to get it addressed quickly and firmly, as you can't count on him reacting "normally."
Demanding free drinks before he plays a note, and offering to bring in his music books, are not signs of someone who knows how to constructively engage in a session.
Be sure and have session leadership work with the publican on this one--you need to present a united front. You have enough evidence already to know that his presence is unwelcome, and could have negative impact on the success of the session and accordingly on the pub's business on session nights.
Good luck! And maybe he offered you one piece of good advice, when there is a strange person in the room, it IS best to keep your head up and maintain your situational awareness!
What a God-aweful night that was...this guy wouldn't get away from me! His orange shirt was like a warning beacon, catching a glimpse of that brigh orange flash out of the corner of my eye set my muscles to stiffining...I didn't even have to see it, the hairs on the back of my neck would stand up whenever he was around.
Ugg, I shudder at the memory of it...I can't believe that he kissed me on the ear! Thank God Brent came over with my "important phone call" because not only was I frozen in shock, but I was trapped between my and Eric's guitars and the creepy guy with no escape, save crawling under the table, which I was actually considering...
I hope that he was drunk enough that when he wakes up the next morning that he'll forget all about coming back!
Did you get an explanation from management of why they tolerated his behavior?
This event doesn't auger well for your session. The bartender should have expelled him but didn't. Some conclusions you can draw from that are:
a) One more paying customer, no matter how rude and unruly, is worth more than eleven of you playing traditional Irish music or;
b) This rude jerk exerts an influence over the bartender or owner that overrides the value of the live music you and your friends provide. The establishment or bartender may owe a large amount of money to this guy, or he may be part of an influential family or organization with ties to the establishment or community that management won't chance to offend.
If, after the first egregious offense, the eleven of you aren't willing to confront the guy and get him to shut up or leave; and the people who run the place, or the audience, aren't willing to run this guy out of there, you all need to pack up instantly, leave, and stay gone until you're invited back with a guarantee of support from the staff.
Or grope him too. Who knows? You might make a new friend!
There's the Groucho Marx approach:
"Excuse me, there's one person too many in this room, and I think it's you !"
It's the pub-owner or bar manager who has to get rid of him - hope it works out all right for you. And welcome to "The Session", Rose.
I guess part of the problem was that there were no male staff on duty that night, except working in the kitchen. The husband of the couple who are the co-owners was home with the kids that night. The bartender is about five feet tall and maybe weighs 100 pounds. They were as creeped by this guy as we were. (They didn't know him, either.) We don't really have a session leader, either. I'll initiate discussion of the matter on our session's yahoo group so we'll have a plan by next week.
We did talk it over a bit with the owner at the end of the evening. She may have thought that maybe he was a musician, and probably wasn't aware that he was annoying us. I'm not sure about the walkout idea. At least not until we consult again with the owners.
Another complication is that next Sunday is Mother's Day, when the restaurant will be very crowded and I may have a half dozen musician friends visiting from out of state.
I totally sympathisize. I've definitely suffered through a few creepy punters, though none of the calibre you guys have described above. Of course, it never helps that these people always talk to me. The pipes look and sound distinctive, to say the least, and the crazies are drawn to them like moths to an outdoor light. Makes me wish I played the fiddle sometimes! I always get really nervous and end up warily watching the guy maneuver around the room more than I play. Those are always the nights when I get one of the men at the session to walk me to my car.
OK, Gary, Mother's Day will be complicated.
Although the cops around here are happy to escort unruly jerks from respectable bars and restaurants, your tax dollars down there might not work as effectively. How about this?
Each of you buys a small Freon-style horn, and at the first unwanted close contact by the jerk, everyong puts a horn in his face and pulls the trigger. That'll be fun for everyone, and what happens after that should be self-sorting!
If he kissed me on the ear I'd likely swing around and hit him. Just a gut reaction. It's happened to me, and before I knew I even did it the guy went whining off because the edge of my ring cut his face. I was just so startled it happened, I never hit anyone...really!
I'd just tell him he's disrupting the music, if he has something to say he should say it after the session (hopefully by them he'll forget). If he becomes unruly, and sounds like he might, that would be grounds for removal, by the owner or the police if they can't get him out on their own. Just make sure he doesn't have a violent streak (like I do, LOL!).
Get some big guy to kiss HIM on the ear..... he may run like the wind and never come back, LOL!
Ive experienced the same kind of thing a few times while playin in bars not just as bad as that though, you could make a complaint to the bar manager asking him why he wasnt kiced out and why did they serve him drink tell them that If they let him in (if he comes back next week) that the session will be moved to another place
One of the problems with a confrontation is that the next encounter is likely to be when the restaurant is crowded with families having a holiday dinner. It's beyond the realm of imagination that we'll allow a confrontation to occur when it's likely to have a negative effect on business.
It's also very unlikely that we would move or threaten to move the session after nearly a decade of strong support from the venue. Besides, if this guy is fairly local, what's to stop him from following us, other than a more forceful pub owner? And why would someone with whom we don't yet have a relationship be more likely to support us than someone we've worked with for years?
As for calling the cops, I suppose that would work if the owners wanted him removed. They might, if we ask them to. I don't know. The uninvited kiss(es?) might be the grounds. I don't think he did anything else that would justify removal, other than annoying people by talking to them and touching them (stroking backs or shoulders). It would feel pretty strange calling the police to evict someone because they talked to me.
If the owners don't want him removed, maybe you should ask yourself why they want him there for your discomfort. Talking to people is benign, touching them without their permission is not.
If all of you put on party hats at the same time you deafen the offender with your horns, you won't spook the patrons. They'll think it's festive!
There's a middle ground between wanting him there and wanting him removed, and we don't know at this point where the owners stand. Removing him could conceivably cause a scene. Also, we don't know this guy - he doesn't seem to be very tightly wound. We don't know what he might do. We don't know what possible repercussions the owners might be willing to risk.
That said, what's wrong with a little one-on-one communication? If you don't know the guy, take a few minutes to chat with him. Maybe it's a medical problem and he deserves (a) a chance to redeem himself, or (b) guided more gently toward more appropriate behavior or leaving you all alone.
His could be just a one-off behavioral quirk from a dosage adjustment, self- or professionally-administered, Might never happen again, and maybe you'll even get an apology from him.
Regardless, here's to a tidy resolution---somewhere on the scale between lightning bolt and The Rapture---of "the problem".
Well, it happened so fast and it was so unexpected that I just completely froze up! I just hope that he doesn't come back, and then we won't have to deal with this at all..
In these parts, the landlord could have (and should have IMO) been in serious trouble with the law for serving someone already obviously intoxicated, like possibly losing his license.
If you do decide to approach the landlord to ask that Mr. Boor be banned, you might research the question of whether or not this is true where you are. If you're in the U.S., it's merely a matter of finding out what agency in your state licenses restaurants and bars to sell alcohol, and then contact them to verify the law. They may even have the info you need on a Website.
If it's true where you are that restaurant owners can lose their licenses for serving drunks, that's powerful info to carry with you with approach the landlord.
The predicament is not yours. Ok, in the absence of the landlord/owner and/or strong bar personnel it was on your laps last week. If the guy's worth his salt he ought to nip this problem in the bud. He can either try contacting this guy prior to your next session and get an explanation.....telling him that any future misbehaviour will not be tolerated. That failing and if he appears next week......pull him to the one side before drinks are served and lay the house rules on the table. If he doesn't get the message, kick his ass out without a fuss,( there are ways, aren't there bouncers/door staff employed for Mothers' Day ?)
We had the punter from hell at Corofin but he was as soft as a brush, incoherent and harmless. I was dragged into conversation with him and his dad and sussed their political sympathies were anything but harmless. I also sussed they were friendlier in their current state than sober.
just stand up in front of him and say two words...f**k off.that should solve it. you can't be civil with these fools.he thinks he can get away with acting the maggot and nobody is going to stop him.nip it in the bud or it could get messy.
How you say it is also important. As Billy Connoly recently pointed out, a lot of people think that f... off means go away. It does not F... off means F... off!
There's a form. You fill it out in triplicate, get it signed by five women, each of whom has at least one ear, have each signature witnessed and notarized, and submit it to your local town council. The conservation commission and the zoning board will hold public hearings within 60 days, and if your application is approved, you can kiss any ears you like, in your town, on land zoned commercial or mixed-use, for a period of seven years before filing for a renewal. There's an annual fee that varies from town to town. Void where prohibited by law and in parts of Texas.
We had a local p*sshead at our session a few weeks back. He was trying to sing by screaming and shouting, not necessarily with the right words or air. Anyway, one of the lads recorded him on his mobile and played it to him the next week. Everyone started staring and laughing AT him, making him feel like a twit. He ducked his head and now leaves before we start.
Maybe if that arsehole comes back, u could record him or everybody start muttering around him, making him paranoid and uncomfortable, like he did to ye.
Or else, get your session mob together and physically dispose of him and give him a little incentive not to return.
Copo, that must have been pretty funny! It might be a good (or at least amusing) idea, but in our case, creepy guy would have to stop directing everyone long enough to open his mouth in an atempt to sing something. Granted, this also means that he will have to stop dictating annoying non-helpful "tips" to everyone...or maybe he should just sing the annoying tips? Playing that back would be HILARIOUS!
I get this cr*p a lot because I'm tiny and big chested. A deadly combination. I dance once with the creep and then I'm done. You've danced once, now it's time to react. We get mucho pot around here and your man might have been stoned or having a diabetic reaction. Doesn't matter, as my dad said, "Hit (kiss) you once, his fault. Hit (kiss) you twice, your fault." I've gotten good at knees in the groin and spitting. It's incredibly off putting. Fortunately, however, I've got a big husband. See if you can't seed the next session with one or two big blokes who can gently but firmly escort Mr. Creepy to the nearest exit and keep him out. Men love the protection bit. Remind them that it is Mother's Day and they'd want to protect their own mothers if it was them, right?
I know the big tall husband thing
I didnt think much of it until I watched his staff follow three paces behind him during pedestrian rush hour, he basically was a human groyne with everyone in the opposite direction parting to let him through. As he says "How come nobody ever does this when I am around?"
You could always invite the twit to play a solo on his preferred instrument the next week, make a big deal of it. Special performance by dickwad. ;)
whoops that sounds very disjointed, I have the 6'5" tall husband, he generally towers over most rugby players and he is almost half as wide, people tend to be intimidated by his size and height. As for "dickwad", well invite him to perform and invite the whole area to watch, if he is good there is no egg on your faces, if he is bad there is egg on his face.
A few more details have emerged about our punter from hell, who we have come to call "Creepy Guy" as we discussed what to do about him this week. He calls himself Gypsy Dave and has turned up regularly at sessions in the area for about 30 years. Apparently he's been to ours a time or two over the years, but wasn't nearly so bad as he was last week.
The one member of our group who knew him says, "he's about two eggs short of a dozen." I'd guess schizophrenia or bipolar, but I'm no expert. People have cut him lots of slack over the years, feeling sorry for him, since he's pretty obviously not really in control of, and hence responsible for, his behavior. But in recent times, he's started drinking. I don't know if he's drinking heavily, but even if it's just moderate quantities, the combination of alcohol, mental illness, and perhaps medications, has pushed his behavior over the edge.
We were very patient with him last week because we didn't know him, though toward the end of the evening, the former owner of the tavern, who sings in the session, told him to stay away from the musicians, which I think he did. We'll be much firmer if he comes back tomorrow (as he said he would). The guy who knows him said, based on past experience, that he probably would turn up, with an armload of music books and pester people to learn the tunes and songs he thinks they should.
But I think we're ready for him now. Last week none of us knew that all of the others were in agreement about getting rid of him. Now we know.
I was psychiatric social worker (case manager/babysitter) for several years. Unless he's paranoid, which he doesn't sound like he is, or he's a sociopath (meaning someone who enjoys hurting others. A phychopath is just someone who is mentally ill and is not generally dangerous, despite what Hollywood would like you to think.) or has had a brain injury which is unlikely, there is little actual danger from him. Get a couple of people to firmly steer him out and ask him to pipe down. Do it somewhere there are less distractions. He may not like it, but he probably won't hurt anyone. He might even become a great resource. The trouble with dealing with the mentally ill is that they have a hard time understanding boundries. It's part of the diagnosis. Be firm and polite. It's good to be patient but being mentally ill does not excuse someone from the rules of good behavior. This all comes from personal experience and study. Good luck. God bless you for your concern for him. He may need it more than you know.
Someone's use of a firm and polite full nelson to steer him out may be helpful, if all else fails, speaking from my own experience. He may need that more than you know, too.
One thing is certain, nobody should serve this guy a drink.
He didn't show up. At the end of the evening, I spoke to the bartender (to whom he had made some inappropriate remarks last week) and asked if she was relieved not to see him. She said, "He probably doesn't remember he was here last week."
Punter from Hell
Punter from Hell
I'm mostly just blowing off some steam here, but if anybody's got similar anecdotes or advice, fire away.
Last night we had the most disturbing night our session has ever seen, in nearly a decade of weekly meetings. There was a guy there, hanging all over us for four hours. We hadn't seen him before, so I don't know anything other than what I could surmise from his behavior.
He appeared to be quite drunk, but I didn't see him drinking heavily. He did say that he was on medication for high blood pressure and anxiety, so there may have been some interaction. His speech was rather garbled - not slurred, exactly - some words took several attempts to get out - probably not entirely due to alcohol.
He would come up close to nearly all eleven of us at one point or another, invade our personal space (to say the least), and tell us what we were doing right or wrong, what songs we should learn, how we should play, etc. He fondled several of us of both genders, somewhat beyond what generally happens in public, and certainly not what you'd expect from a stranger.
He also tried to get the bar to serve him free beer by claiming to be part of the session. When told that that was only for the regulars, he said he would be coming back every week! Fortunately the owner told him no. Unfortunately, they did continue to serve him.
He appeared to be at least somewhat knowledgeable about the music, claiming to play bodhran and whistle (I know, I know, that doesn't prove anything!) and trying to get us to sing Mary Black songs. It sounded like he had some sort of history with a long-defunct session 20 or 30 miles away, but he fortunately didn't go into full detail. He also kept saying that the older people are more appreciative of our music in general and his talents in particular.
One of the most annoying things was that he was attempting to direct the proceedings, telling some people to play louder, telling me to hold my head up when I play, telling us that "Sonny's Dream" should be sung by a woman instead of a man, etc. He says that next week he'll bring all of his music books and "if we find things we want to learn" (i.e. things he wants us to learn), he'll make copies for us.
And all of this would continue even while we were playing.
We basically put up with it, hoping that he'd go away and not come back, but now we're afraid that he might be serious about returning next week, or even every week.
Anybody have any (legal) suggestions?
# Posted on May 8th 2006 by GaryAMartin
Re: Punter from Hell
Ask the landlord to ban him, which he is quite entitled to do, or when he comes back, you all pack up and leave.
# Posted on May 8th 2006 by Martin Milner
Re: Punter from Hell
Legal suggestions? Have the landlord ban him. If he shows up again, throw him out with the warning that if he comes back, he will be arrested for trespassing.
Or you could just kneecap him. Your choice : )
# Posted on May 8th 2006 by Hanley
Re: Punter from Hell
Gary,
Some thoughts from my end, not that I am any sort of authority on the running of sessions.
Stand up firmly and quickly if he shows up again. The only job that goes away when you ignore it is drying dishes--it will be hard to confront this directly, but far less difficult than the pain that will occur if his behavior is not nipped in the bud.
This sounds like there might be medical problems involved, and at the very least, you have clear signs of antisocial behavior that does not respond to normal polite cues, all the more reason to get it addressed quickly and firmly, as you can't count on him reacting "normally."
Demanding free drinks before he plays a note, and offering to bring in his music books, are not signs of someone who knows how to constructively engage in a session.
Be sure and have session leadership work with the publican on this one--you need to present a united front. You have enough evidence already to know that his presence is unwelcome, and could have negative impact on the success of the session and accordingly on the pub's business on session nights.
Good luck! And maybe he offered you one piece of good advice, when there is a strange person in the room, it IS best to keep your head up and maintain your situational awareness!
# Posted on May 8th 2006 by AlBrown
Re: Punter from Hell
rock on!!!!
# Posted on May 8th 2006 by tonnta
Re: Punter from Hell
What a God-aweful night that was...this guy wouldn't get away from me! His orange shirt was like a warning beacon, catching a glimpse of that brigh orange flash out of the corner of my eye set my muscles to stiffining...I didn't even have to see it, the hairs on the back of my neck would stand up whenever he was around.
Ugg, I shudder at the memory of it...I can't believe that he kissed me on the ear! Thank God Brent came over with my "important phone call" because not only was I frozen in shock, but I was trapped between my and Eric's guitars and the creepy guy with no escape, save crawling under the table, which I was actually considering...
I hope that he was drunk enough that when he wakes up the next morning that he'll forget all about coming back!
# Posted on May 8th 2006 by WildIrishRose
Re: Punter from Hell
Gary,
Did you get an explanation from management of why they tolerated his behavior?
This event doesn't auger well for your session. The bartender should have expelled him but didn't. Some conclusions you can draw from that are:
a) One more paying customer, no matter how rude and unruly, is worth more than eleven of you playing traditional Irish music or;
b) This rude jerk exerts an influence over the bartender or owner that overrides the value of the live music you and your friends provide. The establishment or bartender may owe a large amount of money to this guy, or he may be part of an influential family or organization with ties to the establishment or community that management won't chance to offend.
If, after the first egregious offense, the eleven of you aren't willing to confront the guy and get him to shut up or leave; and the people who run the place, or the audience, aren't willing to run this guy out of there, you all need to pack up instantly, leave, and stay gone until you're invited back with a guarantee of support from the staff.
Or grope him too. Who knows? You might make a new friend!
# Posted on May 8th 2006 by ʎɹoʇısuɐɹʇ
Re: Punter from Hell
This guy wouldn't be a local politician who crashed his car into a security barrier after leaving, would he?????
# Posted on May 8th 2006 by AlBrown
Re: Punter from Hell
There's the Groucho Marx approach:
"Excuse me, there's one person too many in this room, and I think it's you !"
It's the pub-owner or bar manager who has to get rid of him - hope it works out all right for you. And welcome to "The Session", Rose.
# Posted on May 8th 2006 by Kenny
Re: Punter from Hell
I guess part of the problem was that there were no male staff on duty that night, except working in the kitchen. The husband of the couple who are the co-owners was home with the kids that night. The bartender is about five feet tall and maybe weighs 100 pounds. They were as creeped by this guy as we were. (They didn't know him, either.) We don't really have a session leader, either. I'll initiate discussion of the matter on our session's yahoo group so we'll have a plan by next week.
We did talk it over a bit with the owner at the end of the evening. She may have thought that maybe he was a musician, and probably wasn't aware that he was annoying us. I'm not sure about the walkout idea. At least not until we consult again with the owners.
Another complication is that next Sunday is Mother's Day, when the restaurant will be very crowded and I may have a half dozen musician friends visiting from out of state.
# Posted on May 8th 2006 by GaryAMartin
Re: Punter from Hell
Get him legless.
(The sort of legless that involves three men from Liverpool leaping out of the back of a green Ford Transit van with pickaxe handles.)
# Posted on May 8th 2006 by showaddydadito
Re: Punter from Hell
I totally sympathisize. I've definitely suffered through a few creepy punters, though none of the calibre you guys have described above. Of course, it never helps that these people always talk to me. The pipes look and sound distinctive, to say the least, and the crazies are drawn to them like moths to an outdoor light. Makes me wish I played the fiddle sometimes! I always get really nervous and end up warily watching the guy maneuver around the room more than I play. Those are always the nights when I get one of the men at the session to walk me to my car.
# Posted on May 8th 2006 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Punter from Hell
OK, Gary, Mother's Day will be complicated.
Although the cops around here are happy to escort unruly jerks from respectable bars and restaurants, your tax dollars down there might not work as effectively. How about this?
Each of you buys a small Freon-style horn, and at the first unwanted close contact by the jerk, everyong puts a horn in his face and pulls the trigger. That'll be fun for everyone, and what happens after that should be self-sorting!
# Posted on May 8th 2006 by ʎɹoʇısuɐɹʇ
Re: Punter from Hell
If he kissed me on the ear I'd likely swing around and hit him. Just a gut reaction. It's happened to me, and before I knew I even did it the guy went whining off because the edge of my ring cut his face. I was just so startled it happened, I never hit anyone...really!
I'd just tell him he's disrupting the music, if he has something to say he should say it after the session (hopefully by them he'll forget). If he becomes unruly, and sounds like he might, that would be grounds for removal, by the owner or the police if they can't get him out on their own. Just make sure he doesn't have a violent streak (like I do, LOL!).
Get some big guy to kiss HIM on the ear..... he may run like the wind and never come back, LOL!
# Posted on May 8th 2006 by irisnevins
Re: Punter from Hell
Ive experienced the same kind of thing a few times while playin in bars not just as bad as that though, you could make a complaint to the bar manager asking him why he wasnt kiced out and why did they serve him drink tell them that If they let him in (if he comes back next week) that the session will be moved to another place
# Posted on May 8th 2006 by double bass
Re: Punter from Hell
One of the problems with a confrontation is that the next encounter is likely to be when the restaurant is crowded with families having a holiday dinner. It's beyond the realm of imagination that we'll allow a confrontation to occur when it's likely to have a negative effect on business.
It's also very unlikely that we would move or threaten to move the session after nearly a decade of strong support from the venue. Besides, if this guy is fairly local, what's to stop him from following us, other than a more forceful pub owner? And why would someone with whom we don't yet have a relationship be more likely to support us than someone we've worked with for years?
As for calling the cops, I suppose that would work if the owners wanted him removed. They might, if we ask them to. I don't know. The uninvited kiss(es?) might be the grounds. I don't think he did anything else that would justify removal, other than annoying people by talking to them and touching them (stroking backs or shoulders). It would feel pretty strange calling the police to evict someone because they talked to me.
# Posted on May 8th 2006 by GaryAMartin
Re: Punter from Hell
Gary,
If the owners don't want him removed, maybe you should ask yourself why they want him there for your discomfort. Talking to people is benign, touching them without their permission is not.
If all of you put on party hats at the same time you deafen the offender with your horns, you won't spook the patrons. They'll think it's festive!
# Posted on May 8th 2006 by ʎɹoʇısuɐɹʇ
Re: Punter from Hell
There's a middle ground between wanting him there and wanting him removed, and we don't know at this point where the owners stand. Removing him could conceivably cause a scene. Also, we don't know this guy - he doesn't seem to be very tightly wound. We don't know what he might do. We don't know what possible repercussions the owners might be willing to risk.
# Posted on May 8th 2006 by GaryAMartin
Re: Punter from Hell
"Removing him could concievably cause a scene."
As though he hasn't already?
That said, what's wrong with a little one-on-one communication? If you don't know the guy, take a few minutes to chat with him. Maybe it's a medical problem and he deserves (a) a chance to redeem himself, or (b) guided more gently toward more appropriate behavior or leaving you all alone.
# Posted on May 8th 2006 by Will Harmon
Re: Punter from Hell
Gary,
His could be just a one-off behavioral quirk from a dosage adjustment, self- or professionally-administered, Might never happen again, and maybe you'll even get an apology from him.
Regardless, here's to a tidy resolution---somewhere on the scale between lightning bolt and The Rapture---of "the problem".
# Posted on May 8th 2006 by ʎɹoʇısuɐɹʇ
Re: Punter from Hell
And if you find out he really is just a lecherous, boorish sod, then you can ask the bar owner to ban him, and you'll have firm grounds for doing it.
# Posted on May 8th 2006 by Will Harmon
Re: Punter from Hell
If a guy kissed me on the ear uninvited I would definitely be rearranging his face . . . but them I'm not a very tolerant person.
# Posted on May 8th 2006 by musicfan
Re: Punter from Hell
Thanks, Kenny. ^-^
Well, it happened so fast and it was so unexpected that I just completely froze up! I just hope that he doesn't come back, and then we won't have to deal with this at all..
# Posted on May 8th 2006 by WildIrishRose
Re: Punter from Hell
Irisnevins, hehe, great idea! I'll have to find the biggest guy I know! ^_~
# Posted on May 8th 2006 by WildIrishRose
Re: Punter from Hell
In these parts, the landlord could have (and should have IMO) been in serious trouble with the law for serving someone already obviously intoxicated, like possibly losing his license.
If you do decide to approach the landlord to ask that Mr. Boor be banned, you might research the question of whether or not this is true where you are. If you're in the U.S., it's merely a matter of finding out what agency in your state licenses restaurants and bars to sell alcohol, and then contact them to verify the law. They may even have the info you need on a Website.
If it's true where you are that restaurant owners can lose their licenses for serving drunks, that's powerful info to carry with you with approach the landlord.
# Posted on May 9th 2006 by cathrynb
Re: Punter from Hell
Gary,
The predicament is not yours. Ok, in the absence of the landlord/owner and/or strong bar personnel it was on your laps last week. If the guy's worth his salt he ought to nip this problem in the bud. He can either try contacting this guy prior to your next session and get an explanation.....telling him that any future misbehaviour will not be tolerated. That failing and if he appears next week......pull him to the one side before drinks are served and lay the house rules on the table. If he doesn't get the message, kick his ass out without a fuss,( there are ways, aren't there bouncers/door staff employed for Mothers' Day ?)
You don't need that hassle.
# Posted on May 9th 2006 by Strathfoyle
Re: Punter from Hell
We had the punter from hell at Corofin but he was as soft as a brush, incoherent and harmless. I was dragged into conversation with him and his dad and sussed their political sympathies were anything but harmless. I also sussed they were friendlier in their current state than sober.
# Posted on May 9th 2006 by geoffwright
Re: Punter from Hell
.
# Posted on May 9th 2006 by fiddlemax
Re: Punter from Hell
fiddlemax, that input was brief and to the point -- ha ha.
# Posted on May 9th 2006 by AlBrown
Re: Punter from Hell
just stand up in front of him and say two words...f**k off.that should solve it. you can't be civil with these fools.he thinks he can get away with acting the maggot and nobody is going to stop him.nip it in the bud or it could get messy.
# Posted on May 9th 2006 by tonnta
Re: Punter from Hell
How you say it is also important. As Billy Connoly recently pointed out, a lot of people think that f... off means go away. It does not F... off means F... off!
# Posted on May 10th 2006 by mcknowall
Re: Punter from Hell
"If a guy kissed me on the ear uninvited I would definitely be rearranging his face . . . but them I'm not a very tolerant person. "
I"ll bear that in mind and get the word out. I am frequently asked "When are your babes coming back?"
Ah dunno. They nise girls. Ah missum alot.
But provided y'all DO come back, . And how, may one ask, does one go about obtaining permission? (Glasses are getting too expensive.)
# Posted on May 10th 2006 by Owell Mabee
Re: Punter from Hell
There's a form. You fill it out in triplicate, get it signed by five women, each of whom has at least one ear, have each signature witnessed and notarized, and submit it to your local town council. The conservation commission and the zoning board will hold public hearings within 60 days, and if your application is approved, you can kiss any ears you like, in your town, on land zoned commercial or mixed-use, for a period of seven years before filing for a renewal. There's an annual fee that varies from town to town. Void where prohibited by law and in parts of Texas.
# Posted on May 10th 2006 by GaryAMartin
Re: Punter from Hell
We had a local p*sshead at our session a few weeks back. He was trying to sing by screaming and shouting, not necessarily with the right words or air. Anyway, one of the lads recorded him on his mobile and played it to him the next week. Everyone started staring and laughing AT him, making him feel like a twit. He ducked his head and now leaves before we start.
Maybe if that arsehole comes back, u could record him or everybody start muttering around him, making him paranoid and uncomfortable, like he did to ye.
Or else, get your session mob together and physically dispose of him and give him a little incentive not to return.
# Posted on May 10th 2006 by copo24
Re: Punter from Hell
Haha...nice, Gary. ^_~
Copo, that must have been pretty funny! It might be a good (or at least amusing) idea, but in our case, creepy guy would have to stop directing everyone long enough to open his mouth in an atempt to sing something. Granted, this also means that he will have to stop dictating annoying non-helpful "tips" to everyone...or maybe he should just sing the annoying tips? Playing that back would be HILARIOUS!
# Posted on May 10th 2006 by WildIrishRose
Re: Punter from Hell
I get this cr*p a lot because I'm tiny and big chested. A deadly combination. I dance once with the creep and then I'm done. You've danced once, now it's time to react. We get mucho pot around here and your man might have been stoned or having a diabetic reaction. Doesn't matter, as my dad said, "Hit (kiss) you once, his fault. Hit (kiss) you twice, your fault." I've gotten good at knees in the groin and spitting. It's incredibly off putting. Fortunately, however, I've got a big husband. See if you can't seed the next session with one or two big blokes who can gently but firmly escort Mr. Creepy to the nearest exit and keep him out. Men love the protection bit. Remind them that it is Mother's Day and they'd want to protect their own mothers if it was them, right?
# Posted on May 11th 2006 by Meri-pixie
Re: Punter from Hell
I know the big tall husband thing
I didnt think much of it until I watched his staff follow three paces behind him during pedestrian rush hour, he basically was a human groyne with everyone in the opposite direction parting to let him through. As he says "How come nobody ever does this when I am around?"
You could always invite the twit to play a solo on his preferred instrument the next week, make a big deal of it. Special performance by dickwad. ;)
# Posted on May 11th 2006 by Joze
Re: Punter from Hell
whoops that sounds very disjointed, I have the 6'5" tall husband, he generally towers over most rugby players and he is almost half as wide, people tend to be intimidated by his size and height. As for "dickwad", well invite him to perform and invite the whole area to watch, if he is good there is no egg on your faces, if he is bad there is egg on his face.
# Posted on May 11th 2006 by Joze
Re: Punter from Hell
A few more details have emerged about our punter from hell, who we have come to call "Creepy Guy" as we discussed what to do about him this week. He calls himself Gypsy Dave and has turned up regularly at sessions in the area for about 30 years. Apparently he's been to ours a time or two over the years, but wasn't nearly so bad as he was last week.
The one member of our group who knew him says, "he's about two eggs short of a dozen." I'd guess schizophrenia or bipolar, but I'm no expert. People have cut him lots of slack over the years, feeling sorry for him, since he's pretty obviously not really in control of, and hence responsible for, his behavior. But in recent times, he's started drinking. I don't know if he's drinking heavily, but even if it's just moderate quantities, the combination of alcohol, mental illness, and perhaps medications, has pushed his behavior over the edge.
We were very patient with him last week because we didn't know him, though toward the end of the evening, the former owner of the tavern, who sings in the session, told him to stay away from the musicians, which I think he did. We'll be much firmer if he comes back tomorrow (as he said he would). The guy who knows him said, based on past experience, that he probably would turn up, with an armload of music books and pester people to learn the tunes and songs he thinks they should.
But I think we're ready for him now. Last week none of us knew that all of the others were in agreement about getting rid of him. Now we know.
# Posted on May 13th 2006 by GaryAMartin
Re: Punter from Hell
I was psychiatric social worker (case manager/babysitter) for several years. Unless he's paranoid, which he doesn't sound like he is, or he's a sociopath (meaning someone who enjoys hurting others. A phychopath is just someone who is mentally ill and is not generally dangerous, despite what Hollywood would like you to think.) or has had a brain injury which is unlikely, there is little actual danger from him. Get a couple of people to firmly steer him out and ask him to pipe down. Do it somewhere there are less distractions. He may not like it, but he probably won't hurt anyone. He might even become a great resource. The trouble with dealing with the mentally ill is that they have a hard time understanding boundries. It's part of the diagnosis. Be firm and polite. It's good to be patient but being mentally ill does not excuse someone from the rules of good behavior. This all comes from personal experience and study. Good luck. God bless you for your concern for him. He may need it more than you know.
# Posted on May 13th 2006 by Meri-pixie
Re: Punter from Hell
Someone's use of a firm and polite full nelson to steer him out may be helpful, if all else fails, speaking from my own experience. He may need that more than you know, too.
One thing is certain, nobody should serve this guy a drink.
# Posted on May 13th 2006 by ʎɹoʇısuɐɹʇ
Re: Punter from Hell
Hey Gary,
What happened at the Mother's Day session? Did Gypsy Dave surface?
# Posted on May 15th 2006 by ʎɹoʇısuɐɹʇ
Re: Punter from Hell
He didn't show up. At the end of the evening, I spoke to the bartender (to whom he had made some inappropriate remarks last week) and asked if she was relieved not to see him. She said, "He probably doesn't remember he was here last week."
# Posted on May 15th 2006 by GaryAMartin
Re: Punter from Hell
All's well that ends well - for now !
# Posted on May 15th 2006 by Kenny