I've heard that more expensive guitars(Martin,Taylor,etc.)react very differently when strummed for a long period of time.Since the way I strum sometimes seems like I want to break the guitar,how will that kind of guitar react?I've tried a cheaper Taylor,but I couldn't strum freely because the storekeep was already giving me the look!
I can only speak from experience but .....
my full time guitar is a Martin DM and I love it dearly, I strum mucgh in the way you describe and give my guitar a fair bit of punishment to get the sound I want, the Martin har never complained and always delivers with tone clarity and volume (13 guage strings) I have played a few guitars in my time, tanglewood, yamaha, washburn and have tried taylors, lowden, fylde and maton and to be honest I would trade any of them to get another Martin. Please bear in mind though no two guitars of the same make and type are the same, maybe I was just lucky and out of the guitars this guy made that day everything just went right for mine. (please don't buy the baby tayor ! screws through the fingerboard and neck should not be encouraged !)
Oh and when in the shop, if the storekeeper gives you a look just remind him that you may be dropping a large sum of money on his counter, not only for the guitar but the continuing nesesity of strings, picks and all the sundries......
Not quite sure if this is what you’re getting at, but conventional wisdom says that a guitar (or any wooden, stringed instrument) that gets played hard will, over time, develop a stronger voice than one that’s played softly. The wood gets more limber when it’s flexed regularly.
I had always heard that Martins were better for fingerpicking than strumming, but have been strumming mine for years without ill effect, and have seen older Martins with significant wear on the front, obviously having been strummed a lot over many years.
Some guitars sound better picked than strummed, and generally the lower the action, the more difficult to strum without buzzing, so there are some tradeoffs. Sometimes it is not so much the type of guitar that favors strumming, as it is the height of the bridge, and adjustment of the neck. I have heard people say that this brand is better for this, and that brand is better for that, but I think it is probably better to judge each individual guitar on its own merits.
I understand your dilemma in music stores. Since blasting away on the chords is often a vital part of playing in loud pubs, it is natural to want to try that before buying. You might want to borrow different guitars from friends and acquaintences to try different brands out without having to worry about that store clerk hovering over you.
Some Martins are made specifically for fingerpicking and some are made for flatpicking. Some are made to stroke the egos of people with too much money.
Not to be funny, but to go back to the original question and remarks, if you haven't bought it then you can't put a mark on it, because the next customer won't want a marked guitar - I've seen leather-jacketed young punks being told to take off their biker jackets with the sharp zippers before even thinking about picking up an instrument in a shop, and fair doos.
A "good" guitar, and don't ask what that means, or we'll be here all night, should respond better, and might even not need to be thrashed so hard. It also is true, as already said, that guitars develop according to how they have been played, a quietly played guitar will never have the projection of one that has been exposed to the full dynamic range.
Have you ever thought of modifying your style ?
Personally I'd recommend a Guild jumbo if you want a lot of projection.
Has anyone else heard the story that Guild now actually make what are branded as Gibson acoustics, and Gibson make the Guild electrics ?
I've had my Martin 0017 glasstop since (I think) 2000, and I only play flatpick - usually in accompaniment. I during that brief period, I've noticed little difference in its tone. I've let a few fingerpickers test drive it (they could barely keep from drooling) and it sounded great. When I strum it, it gets a lot of projection without a lot of volume. I think it benefits from the "Disco Smile" frequency spectrum of most sessions (which except for the bass provided by bodhran and low whistle exist solely in the treble with no midrange except for my first position strumming).
I originally strung it with mediums and thought extralights would kill my low end. Turns out that the extralights just removed extraneous bass from playing, leaving a more balanced sound.
Appropos of this thread, I also pick tunes out on it. Sounds great at home, but gets buried in a session: people next to me can't hear it. I figured I could blame this on my technique, but it is perhaps now of vitim of its predominant use?
Pete, while I was in Memphis, TN a month ago I took a visit to the Gibson factory. I didn't see any guitars labled Guild. The Gibson acoustics are all made in Naashville. Yet, I still doubt what you say as they give tours of he factories.
BTW, I have an old Guild D-50 (well actually my Mom's) and it is a great sounding guitar.
Guilds used to be made here in Rhode Island USA, but they closed up shop. I heard they sold out to Fender, and while you can still buy guitars with the Guild name, the guitars are now made somewhere out west, California or something. Some of those big old Guilds were just made for strumming and really projected!
I can confirm Bob's "conventional wisdom". My classical guitar teacher told me that if you want a new guitar to have good tone and power then you've got to play it strongly and often for the first two years of its life - that being the critical period, apparently. He not only taught guitar but was a trained luthier. He used to tell me heart-rending stories of the fine guitars he sometimes had to sort out that had been "repaired" by well-meaning owners who had used epoxy resins or the like for the job.
The same principles of playing-in a guitar would, I think, also apply to the fiddle. Here, again, it's often a couple of years of steady playing before the tone really starts to develop, and that tonal development in a decent instrument may extend beyond the first owner's lifetime.
A couple of years ago there was a discussion thread here that mentioned an instrument maker who had the idea of accelerating the tone of new instruments by exposing them to very loud music (e.g. heavy metal) from powerful loudspeakers at close quarters over a period of days. I don't know whether this actually worked; my personal feeling is that passive exposure to sound isn't a real substitute for actually playing and getting to know the instrument over a period of time.
No, I'm not trying to start a malicious rumour, I thought I'd heard or read this somewhere, and it seemed backed-up to me when I saw a new Gibson acoustic with what looked to me very like a Guild body-shape.
On the train of improving the sound, I did hear of a maker playing music to his instruments, as they hung on the wall for three months before he offered them for sale.
I’ve also heard the claim about propping a new guitar in front of loud music to accelerate the “play-in.” I don’t have any reason to doubt that there’s some effect, but driving the soundboard by sympathetic vibration is not the same as driving it by plucking the strings.
Got a pleasant surprise lately. Played some big bodied Avalon Legacies lately. They're belters. Thumpin bottom end with very little effort. It's hard to beat hand built and Martins are not, no matter what it says on the tin. Their unit turnover per luthier is just too high.
Strumming...
Strumming...
I've heard that more expensive guitars(Martin,Taylor,etc.)react very differently when strummed for a long period of time.Since the way I strum sometimes seems like I want to break the guitar,how will that kind of guitar react?I've tried a cheaper Taylor,but I couldn't strum freely because the storekeep was already giving me the look!
# Posted on May 2nd 2006 by HS
Re: Strumming...
I can only speak from experience but .....
my full time guitar is a Martin DM and I love it dearly, I strum mucgh in the way you describe and give my guitar a fair bit of punishment to get the sound I want, the Martin har never complained and always delivers with tone clarity and volume (13 guage strings) I have played a few guitars in my time, tanglewood, yamaha, washburn and have tried taylors, lowden, fylde and maton and to be honest I would trade any of them to get another Martin. Please bear in mind though no two guitars of the same make and type are the same, maybe I was just lucky and out of the guitars this guy made that day everything just went right for mine. (please don't buy the baby tayor ! screws through the fingerboard and neck should not be encouraged !)
Oh and when in the shop, if the storekeeper gives you a look just remind him that you may be dropping a large sum of money on his counter, not only for the guitar but the continuing nesesity of strings, picks and all the sundries......
# Posted on May 2nd 2006 by bloodyfiddlers
Re: Strumming...
Not quite sure if this is what you’re getting at, but conventional wisdom says that a guitar (or any wooden, stringed instrument) that gets played hard will, over time, develop a stronger voice than one that’s played softly. The wood gets more limber when it’s flexed regularly.
# Posted on May 2nd 2006 by Bob himself
Re: Strumming...
Oh god don't tell them that
# Posted on May 2nd 2006 by Dr. Dow
Re: Strumming...
I had always heard that Martins were better for fingerpicking than strumming, but have been strumming mine for years without ill effect, and have seen older Martins with significant wear on the front, obviously having been strummed a lot over many years.
Some guitars sound better picked than strummed, and generally the lower the action, the more difficult to strum without buzzing, so there are some tradeoffs. Sometimes it is not so much the type of guitar that favors strumming, as it is the height of the bridge, and adjustment of the neck. I have heard people say that this brand is better for this, and that brand is better for that, but I think it is probably better to judge each individual guitar on its own merits.
I understand your dilemma in music stores. Since blasting away on the chords is often a vital part of playing in loud pubs, it is natural to want to try that before buying. You might want to borrow different guitars from friends and acquaintences to try different brands out without having to worry about that store clerk hovering over you.
# Posted on May 2nd 2006 by AlBrown
Re: Strumming...
"Oh god don't tell them that"
LOL! Oops, too late.
# Posted on May 2nd 2006 by Bob himself
Re: Strumming...
Some Martins are made specifically for fingerpicking and some are made for flatpicking. Some are made to stroke the egos of people with too much money.
# Posted on May 2nd 2006 by Bob himself
Re: Strumming...
I think Dow was being very diplomatic and restrained in his comment!
# Posted on May 2nd 2006 by AlBrown
Re: Strumming...
LOL ... ? what you on about? what's it mean?
# Posted on May 2nd 2006 by five
Re: Strumming...
No problems hitting these guitars too hard whats that a gibson ?
http://www.thevoid.co.uk/thewho/SW/14.jpg
# Posted on May 2nd 2006 by Ripthecalico
Re: Strumming...
"LOL ... ? what you on about? what's it mean?"
LOL = laughing out loud, if that was the question.
# Posted on May 2nd 2006 by Bob himself
Re: Strumming...
Not to be funny, but to go back to the original question and remarks, if you haven't bought it then you can't put a mark on it, because the next customer won't want a marked guitar - I've seen leather-jacketed young punks being told to take off their biker jackets with the sharp zippers before even thinking about picking up an instrument in a shop, and fair doos.
A "good" guitar, and don't ask what that means, or we'll be here all night, should respond better, and might even not need to be thrashed so hard. It also is true, as already said, that guitars develop according to how they have been played, a quietly played guitar will never have the projection of one that has been exposed to the full dynamic range.
Have you ever thought of modifying your style ?
# Posted on May 2nd 2006 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Strumming...
Personally I'd recommend a Guild jumbo if you want a lot of projection.
Has anyone else heard the story that Guild now actually make what are branded as Gibson acoustics, and Gibson make the Guild electrics ?
# Posted on May 2nd 2006 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Strumming...
I've had my Martin 0017 glasstop since (I think) 2000, and I only play flatpick - usually in accompaniment. I during that brief period, I've noticed little difference in its tone. I've let a few fingerpickers test drive it (they could barely keep from drooling) and it sounded great. When I strum it, it gets a lot of projection without a lot of volume. I think it benefits from the "Disco Smile" frequency spectrum of most sessions (which except for the bass provided by bodhran and low whistle exist solely in the treble with no midrange except for my first position strumming).
I originally strung it with mediums and thought extralights would kill my low end. Turns out that the extralights just removed extraneous bass from playing, leaving a more balanced sound.
Appropos of this thread, I also pick tunes out on it. Sounds great at home, but gets buried in a session: people next to me can't hear it. I figured I could blame this on my technique, but it is perhaps now of vitim of its predominant use?
# Posted on May 2nd 2006 by KC Gross
Re: Strumming...
“Has anyone else heard the story …?”
Pete, are you starting a rumor to see how far it travels?
# Posted on May 2nd 2006 by Bob himself
Re: Strumming...
Pete, while I was in Memphis, TN a month ago I took a visit to the Gibson factory. I didn't see any guitars labled Guild. The Gibson acoustics are all made in Naashville. Yet, I still doubt what you say as they give tours of he factories.
BTW, I have an old Guild D-50 (well actually my Mom's) and it is a great sounding guitar.
# Posted on May 2nd 2006 by Why Bother?
Re: Strumming...
Guilds used to be made here in Rhode Island USA, but they closed up shop. I heard they sold out to Fender, and while you can still buy guitars with the Guild name, the guitars are now made somewhere out west, California or something. Some of those big old Guilds were just made for strumming and really projected!
# Posted on May 2nd 2006 by AlBrown
Re: Strumming...
my serious acoustic strumming machine is a Yamaha FG-365S _and i'll have to fix it up again sometime
# Posted on May 2nd 2006 by lisaniska
Re: Strumming...
I can confirm Bob's "conventional wisdom". My classical guitar teacher told me that if you want a new guitar to have good tone and power then you've got to play it strongly and often for the first two years of its life - that being the critical period, apparently. He not only taught guitar but was a trained luthier. He used to tell me heart-rending stories of the fine guitars he sometimes had to sort out that had been "repaired" by well-meaning owners who had used epoxy resins or the like for the job.
The same principles of playing-in a guitar would, I think, also apply to the fiddle. Here, again, it's often a couple of years of steady playing before the tone really starts to develop, and that tonal development in a decent instrument may extend beyond the first owner's lifetime.
A couple of years ago there was a discussion thread here that mentioned an instrument maker who had the idea of accelerating the tone of new instruments by exposing them to very loud music (e.g. heavy metal) from powerful loudspeakers at close quarters over a period of days. I don't know whether this actually worked; my personal feeling is that passive exposure to sound isn't a real substitute for actually playing and getting to know the instrument over a period of time.
# Posted on May 3rd 2006 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Strumming...
lisaniska would need a serious tool for the job as his right arm does some serious work.
dont take that the wrong way john I am refering to the guitar playing on the rough cut album
# Posted on May 3rd 2006 by Ripthecalico
Re: Strumming...
No, I'm not trying to start a malicious rumour, I thought I'd heard or read this somewhere, and it seemed backed-up to me when I saw a new Gibson acoustic with what looked to me very like a Guild body-shape.
On the train of improving the sound, I did hear of a maker playing music to his instruments, as they hung on the wall for three months before he offered them for sale.
# Posted on May 3rd 2006 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Strumming...
I’ve also heard the claim about propping a new guitar in front of loud music to accelerate the “play-in.” I don’t have any reason to doubt that there’s some effect, but driving the soundboard by sympathetic vibration is not the same as driving it by plucking the strings.
# Posted on May 3rd 2006 by Bob himself
Re: Strumming...
Got a pleasant surprise lately. Played some big bodied Avalon Legacies lately. They're belters. Thumpin bottom end with very little effort. It's hard to beat hand built and Martins are not, no matter what it says on the tin. Their unit turnover per luthier is just too high.
# Posted on May 4th 2006 by John McCartin