Aidan Crossey, a member of thesession, had posted the recording of John Doherty's 'Floating Bow' album. I was hoping someone (or Aidan himself) could elaborate on the 'floating bow/dragging bow" techniques that he refers to in his comments. Anyone familiar with the phrase/technique?
the cd booklet has about 30 pages with tons of information about his biography, lifestyle and playing techniques...
.... impossible to print it all down here, but here comes some samples (sorry, but I have to bring all these other quotes before the one related to the above question about the floating bow, because it is important to know, how much more than the floating bow is mentioned in the liner notes...):
"A common misapprehension is that the Donegal fiddle style consists mainly of short staccato bowing. In John´s playing the whole bow ´from stem to stern´ was used, but at different times..." ....
"John sometimes used a form of staccato bowing he called ´command bowing´, so called ´because the bowing commands the fingers.´ It can be heard on Dúlaman na Binne Buí." ....
"John played many different triplets, bowed ornaments and fingered ornaments, some of which echo the more salient rhythmic features of classic Scottish bowing. It is important to note that John incorporated these very discreetly into an already formidable and highly personalised technique so that his music was far removed from the formal bookish approach sometimes associated with Scottish fiddling. One of the most distinctive rhythmical features of Scottish music is the ´Scots snap´, where the usual long-short rhythm of a couplet (here comes a dotted 1/8 followed by a 1/16 note) is reversed to give a short-long rhythm (1/16 followed by dotted 1/8). This in turn developed into a technique called the ´up-driven bow´ where the short down-bow is followed by a brisk up-bow which plays the remaining notes of a phrase..."...
"John used a number of other related bow strokes such as the ´berl´ or ´birl sweep´which is a triplet played on an up-bow, and the ´double berl´ which involved a triplet played at the start and finish of a bow stroke ....."
"One of the more subtle and complex effects John used was the ´floating bow´ which involved reversing the sequence of bow strokes within a phrase and at the same time altering or reversing the pattern of accentuation within that phrase. ....."
the liner notes are going on mentioning a lot more of John Doherty´s specific bowing techniques .... I think this makes clear, that this CD is more than just a must have in ones personal ITM cd collection - it is a cd you can study and learn of bit by bit for years
I accidently ordered Floating Bow twice back last spring - kept the second to have a present if needed or might trade it.... well, i think it is a good idea to trade it in exchange to a good and rare ITM recording someone else owns twice. So give me an email ...
I'm no fiddler, so I can't comment on how Doherty achieved his techniques. But the effect on the listener! If you don't have any of Doherty's playing in your CD collection, then - seriously! - get hold of some. One of the unique talents in Irish music.
Yes Aidan! I'm a big fan of Doherty, and love listening just about anyone who plays in the old style (and seemingly becoming less enchanted by the 'super-groups' as a result). I do have the Floating Bow album and enjoy it very much.
Suppose I was hoping for more contemporary commentary on the techniques described. Are they still used by players in Donegal today? Is this unique to Donegal or perhaps to Doherty himself? Anyone here studying these techniques? Anyone having any success with them?
Kevin, I haven't heard the cd in question, though I have listened to Doherty's playing on other recordings. I've never heard it called the floating bow before, but really it's not unusual for fiddlers to turn the bow directions inside out--to reverse them, I guess--and so change where and how the accents fall. For instance, you can punch the beat home on a down bow one time around, and then slur across the beat on an up bow the next time. I'm not sure why it would be called "floating," other than maybe you're not rooted to one approach.
I can also understand "floating" in a specific case. Take a stock phrase such as:
|G2 BG dGBG|
You can play that:
|upG2 downB upG downd upG downB upG|
or you can "float" it:
|upG2 downB upslurGdG downB upG|
Fair enough Will! That particular GdG slur on the upstoke must be hell to play cleanly! I'll give it a go.
I suppose I was charmed by the idea of different techniques being named sort of like moves a Kung Fu movie. (Ah, I see you have studied 'floating bow' technique! Who was your master?)
Thanks for the web link. Brilliant stuff! Kinda freaky that you posted it, as I just found that site a few days before!
Where's the best place to get CDs that have been mentioned. Also...how do get the weekly updates started again? Couldn't find it on FAQ. As a legitimate member I thought I would automatically get the EMails????
Floating Bow
Floating Bow
Aidan Crossey, a member of thesession, had posted the recording of John Doherty's 'Floating Bow' album. I was hoping someone (or Aidan himself) could elaborate on the 'floating bow/dragging bow" techniques that he refers to in his comments. Anyone familiar with the phrase/technique?
# Posted on October 11th 2002 by Caoimghgin
Re: Floating Bow
And please cross-reference with the "Floating Crowbar"
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display.php/457
(i believe that's a banjo-playing technique).
# Posted on October 11th 2002 by glauber
Re: Floating Bow
the cd booklet has about 30 pages with tons of information about his biography, lifestyle and playing techniques...
.... impossible to print it all down here, but here comes some samples (sorry, but I have to bring all these other quotes before the one related to the above question about the floating bow, because it is important to know, how much more than the floating bow is mentioned in the liner notes...):
"A common misapprehension is that the Donegal fiddle style consists mainly of short staccato bowing. In John´s playing the whole bow ´from stem to stern´ was used, but at different times..." ....
"John sometimes used a form of staccato bowing he called ´command bowing´, so called ´because the bowing commands the fingers.´ It can be heard on Dúlaman na Binne Buí." ....
"John played many different triplets, bowed ornaments and fingered ornaments, some of which echo the more salient rhythmic features of classic Scottish bowing. It is important to note that John incorporated these very discreetly into an already formidable and highly personalised technique so that his music was far removed from the formal bookish approach sometimes associated with Scottish fiddling. One of the most distinctive rhythmical features of Scottish music is the ´Scots snap´, where the usual long-short rhythm of a couplet (here comes a dotted 1/8 followed by a 1/16 note) is reversed to give a short-long rhythm (1/16 followed by dotted 1/8). This in turn developed into a technique called the ´up-driven bow´ where the short down-bow is followed by a brisk up-bow which plays the remaining notes of a phrase..."...
"John used a number of other related bow strokes such as the ´berl´ or ´birl sweep´which is a triplet played on an up-bow, and the ´double berl´ which involved a triplet played at the start and finish of a bow stroke ....."
"One of the more subtle and complex effects John used was the ´floating bow´ which involved reversing the sequence of bow strokes within a phrase and at the same time altering or reversing the pattern of accentuation within that phrase. ....."
the liner notes are going on mentioning a lot more of John Doherty´s specific bowing techniques .... I think this makes clear, that this CD is more than just a must have in ones personal ITM cd collection - it is a cd you can study and learn of bit by bit for years
I accidently ordered Floating Bow twice back last spring - kept the second to have a present if needed or might trade it.... well, i think it is a good idea to trade it in exchange to a good and rare ITM recording someone else owns twice. So give me an email ...
# Posted on October 12th 2002 by crannog
Re: Floating Bow
Caoimghgin
I'm no fiddler, so I can't comment on how Doherty achieved his techniques. But the effect on the listener! If you don't have any of Doherty's playing in your CD collection, then - seriously! - get hold of some. One of the unique talents in Irish music.
Aidan Crossey
# Posted on October 12th 2002 by Aidan Crossey
Re: Floating Bow
Yes Aidan! I'm a big fan of Doherty, and love listening just about anyone who plays in the old style (and seemingly becoming less enchanted by the 'super-groups' as a result). I do have the Floating Bow album and enjoy it very much.
Suppose I was hoping for more contemporary commentary on the techniques described. Are they still used by players in Donegal today? Is this unique to Donegal or perhaps to Doherty himself? Anyone here studying these techniques? Anyone having any success with them?
# Posted on October 14th 2002 by Caoimghgin
Re: Floating Bow
Kevin, I haven't heard the cd in question, though I have listened to Doherty's playing on other recordings. I've never heard it called the floating bow before, but really it's not unusual for fiddlers to turn the bow directions inside out--to reverse them, I guess--and so change where and how the accents fall. For instance, you can punch the beat home on a down bow one time around, and then slur across the beat on an up bow the next time. I'm not sure why it would be called "floating," other than maybe you're not rooted to one approach.
I can also understand "floating" in a specific case. Take a stock phrase such as:
|G2 BG dGBG|
You can play that:
|upG2 downB upG downd upG downB upG|
or you can "float" it:
|upG2 downB upslurGdG downB upG|
Of course there are other bowing options too.
# Posted on October 14th 2002 by Will Harmon
Re: Floating Bow
Caoimhghin ...
If you can, get a hold of Feldman and Doherty's "The Northern Fiddler".
Or spend a while basking in Larry Sanger's spot-on writings at http://www.geocities.com/Athens/6464/hmpg.html
# Posted on October 14th 2002 by Aidan Crossey
Re: Floating Bow
Fair enough Will! That particular GdG slur on the upstoke must be hell to play cleanly! I'll give it a go.
I suppose I was charmed by the idea of different techniques being named sort of like moves a Kung Fu movie. (Ah, I see you have studied 'floating bow' technique! Who was your master?)
Thanks for the web link. Brilliant stuff! Kinda freaky that you posted it, as I just found that site a few days before!
# Posted on October 14th 2002 by Caoimghgin
I'll try to find a copy of 'The Northern Fiddler' this week. Thanks for the reference!
# Posted on October 14th 2002 by Caoimghgin
Re: Floating Bow
Where's the best place to get CDs that have been mentioned. Also...how do get the weekly updates started again? Couldn't find it on FAQ. As a legitimate member I thought I would automatically get the EMails????
# Posted on October 14th 2002 by Gault802
Re: Floating Bow
Best place to buy "The Floating Bow" is via Claddagh Records at
http://www.claddaghrecords.com
You might also fancy their compilation of Donegal fiddle music, The Brass Fiddle!
# Posted on October 18th 2002 by Aidan Crossey