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How do I get that groovy Rattling sound while playing the fiddle?
How do I get that groovy Rattling sound while playing the fiddle?
I've been listening to the new Maeve Donnelly CD and she has this great "ornament" or bowing technique or something (I am too much of a beginner to know the vocab,) but it sounds like a rattle or a vibration of one note. What I have been trying is tensing up my bowing hand on the moving down bow and quickly, yet subtly, moving down-up-down, but it gets too loud and sounds, well, rotten. I am wondering a)what is this manuever called and b) how the heck to I practice it? Also...which beat is accented in a jig. Thanks, much.
Re: How do I get that groovy Rattling sound while playing the fiddle?
What you are describing is either a bowed triplet, or a roll. I will let other, more experienced players try to explain how to do it if they can do it in 25 words or less. I can say that "tensing" is something you are trying to avoid while playing fiddle. The first and third beats are accented jig.
Good luck with your playing, stick with it, it only gets better.
Re: How do I get that groovy Rattling sound while playing the fiddle?
... found the note, Maeve sometimes plays Eflat- and Bflat-fiddle ...
on the John Doherty´s recordings "floating bow" are some tunes with downtuned/open tuned fiddle what leads to a rhythmical rattling very unique drone sound that is much stronger than just an accented repetition of a down string note while playing the main tune line on the upper string .... could that be what Nikki means?
If so, you might take the advice from above ... or start with basic standards on fiddle (with a little help by the known fiddle tutor books9 and we might talk about how to reproduce that mentioned technique somewhat later (I don´t want to be taken arrogant: I´d like to know more about this and, if it is open tuned fiddle technique, even learn using it, as well).
the answer to your second question (about the jig) is hidden in the almost endless archives of former threads ... you´ll get it by feeding the discussion search function with "jig" or "lilting" or "learning styles" or others you might find during your search (you´ll get much more answers than you asked for) - I know the answer is there, but I´m not able to find it at the moment. good luck.
Re: How do I get that groovy Rattling sound while playing the fiddle?
It is the bowed triplet I am speaking of. I am working on it, but if anyone would care to expound beyond the old thread that glauber (thanks, g) mentioned I'd be thrilled. I am finally relaxing with all of this---sans dope, though appreciate the suggestion, cuchulain54. It is hard to be specific when you don't know what you are talking about, Michael. HA! Thanks Crannog, no arrogance detected. I come to the table of fiddling and Irish music in a most humble manor. It is the only way I will learn.
Check out "Brother Steve"'s site. Even though it's a whistle site, the advice there is priceless. http://www.rogermillington.com/siamsa/brosteve/
click on "Jigs", on the left. Read it through 10 times, then read it again.
Re: How do I get that groovy Rattling sound while playing the fiddle?
Nikki, try searching for threads on bowed triplets...we've covered the technique in greater detail than on the thread glauber mentions. To wit:
"Ahhh...bowed triplets. Simple really. All you need is lightspeed reflexes, impeccable timing, a delicate touch, a good bow with good hair and perfect rosin, and--for triplets that change notes--a left hand to match. Not to mention 20 years of listening to other fiddlers do them well, and _at least_ 10 years of practice. What's the problem?
Some tips, from someone who's been working on triplets for 20 years:
1. Relax--they're only crisp if you hold the bow softly. Kevin Burke says that the "grip" is the worst possible name for the pad on the stick where your fingers fall. Maybe it should be called the caress or the tickle.
2. Keep the motion as small as possible. A clean triplet happens mostly in the bow-hand index and middle fingers from the big knuckle down and the thumb side of the back of your hand. Yes, you're hand jiggles a little, but if you were holding a full glass of water in that hand, it wouldn't spill if you jiggled it as much as needed to play a triplet. We're talking a couple of millimeters of movement here, and the pinky side moves even less.
3. To get that relaxed, tiny motion, your hand should be dangling down from the wrist, limp as an old dog's nads. (Sorry, but O'Rourke started it....) If you're wrist is bent back or rigid, it won't work. For this reason, it's easier to play triplets from the middle of the bow up toward the tip rather than down near the frog."
You'll find more helpful advice if you also do a search for Sean Smyth.
Re: How do I get that groovy Rattling sound while playing the fiddle?
Note the bowed triplet's timing.
It's not really a triplet. A real triplet is an even subdivision of two notes into three. The ones we're talking about are much more bunched up to the first note. Your definition as a "rattle" is more acurate, it is over very quickly, right on the beat.
Kevin burke often does a we thing that accentuates the triplet by putting a short rest just before. It makes it sound like a flute player taking a breath. Smart
Re: How do I get that groovy Rattling sound while playing the fiddle?
When I was first taught triplets, I was shown an exercise to practice them both ways (down-up-down, the up-down-up), so I learned them both simultaneously, while practicing my scales.
Easy to practice that way when just warming up.
Thanks to Dale Russ for my first Irish fiddling lesson, where I got that.
Re: How do I get that groovy Rattling sound while playing the fiddle?
I've been taught once that it's a matter of bearing down on the string very hard, to the point of a 'scratch', on the very first note of the triplet. Then, allowing the bow to release and then carry through on the remaining two notes. All this is done very rapidly of course and it should have a percusive 'crunchy' quality about it. If you can hit the first note, the rest should follow nicely.
Also important to use a lead in note before the triplet as this ornament is rarely (if ever) used back to back with another triplet. One satisfiing practice run would be to triplet on the open A string with the following notes
How do I get that groovy Rattling sound while playing the fiddle?
How do I get that groovy Rattling sound while playing the fiddle?
I've been listening to the new Maeve Donnelly CD and she has this great "ornament" or bowing technique or something (I am too much of a beginner to know the vocab,) but it sounds like a rattle or a vibration of one note. What I have been trying is tensing up my bowing hand on the moving down bow and quickly, yet subtly, moving down-up-down, but it gets too loud and sounds, well, rotten. I am wondering a)what is this manuever called
and b) how the heck to I practice it? Also...which beat is accented in a jig. Thanks, much.
# Posted on October 10th 2002 by nikki
Re: How do I get that groovy Rattling sound while playing the fiddle?
Sounds dangerous! I'm not a fiddler, but i think you're describing stacatto triplets. Check out this old discussion:
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display.php/39
# Posted on October 10th 2002 by glauber
Re: How do I get that groovy Rattling sound while playing the fiddle?
What you are describing is either a bowed triplet, or a roll. I will let other, more experienced players try to explain how to do it if they can do it in 25 words or less. I can say that "tensing" is something you are trying to avoid while playing fiddle. The first and third beats are accented jig.
Good luck with your playing, stick with it, it only gets better.
# Posted on October 10th 2002 by pearse
Re: How do I get that groovy Rattling sound while playing the fiddle?
Smoke dope.
# Posted on October 10th 2002 by cuchulain54
Re: How do I get that groovy Rattling sound while playing the fiddle?
Nikki
you need to be more specific (or smoke more dope)
# Posted on October 10th 2002 by llig leahcim
Re: How do I get that groovy Rattling sound while playing the fiddle?
... found the note, Maeve sometimes plays Eflat- and Bflat-fiddle ...
on the John Doherty´s recordings "floating bow" are some tunes with downtuned/open tuned fiddle what leads to a rhythmical rattling very unique drone sound that is much stronger than just an accented repetition of a down string note while playing the main tune line on the upper string .... could that be what Nikki means?
If so, you might take the advice from above ... or start with basic standards on fiddle (with a little help by the known fiddle tutor books9 and we might talk about how to reproduce that mentioned technique somewhat later (I don´t want to be taken arrogant: I´d like to know more about this and, if it is open tuned fiddle technique, even learn using it, as well).
the answer to your second question (about the jig) is hidden in the almost endless archives of former threads ... you´ll get it by feeding the discussion search function with "jig" or "lilting" or "learning styles" or others you might find during your search (you´ll get much more answers than you asked for) - I know the answer is there, but I´m not able to find it at the moment. good luck.
# Posted on October 10th 2002 by crannog
Re: How do I get that groovy Rattling sound while playing the fiddle?
It is the bowed triplet I am speaking of. I am working on it, but if anyone would care to expound beyond the old thread that glauber (thanks, g) mentioned I'd be thrilled. I am finally relaxing with all of this---sans dope, though appreciate the suggestion, cuchulain54. It is hard to be specific when you don't know what you are talking about, Michael. HA! Thanks Crannog, no arrogance detected. I come to the table of fiddling and Irish music in a most humble manor. It is the only way I will learn.
# Posted on October 13th 2002 by nikki
Interpretation of Jigs
Check out "Brother Steve"'s site. Even though it's a whistle site, the advice there is priceless.
http://www.rogermillington.com/siamsa/brosteve/
click on "Jigs", on the left. Read it through 10 times, then read it again.
# Posted on October 13th 2002 by glauber
Re: How do I get that groovy Rattling sound while playing the fiddle?
Nikki, try searching for threads on bowed triplets...we've covered the technique in greater detail than on the thread glauber mentions. To wit:
"Ahhh...bowed triplets. Simple really. All you need is lightspeed reflexes, impeccable timing, a delicate touch, a good bow with good hair and perfect rosin, and--for triplets that change notes--a left hand to match. Not to mention 20 years of listening to other fiddlers do them well, and _at least_ 10 years of practice. What's the problem?
Some tips, from someone who's been working on triplets for 20 years:
1. Relax--they're only crisp if you hold the bow softly. Kevin Burke says that the "grip" is the worst possible name for the pad on the stick where your fingers fall. Maybe it should be called the caress or the tickle.
2. Keep the motion as small as possible. A clean triplet happens mostly in the bow-hand index and middle fingers from the big knuckle down and the thumb side of the back of your hand. Yes, you're hand jiggles a little, but if you were holding a full glass of water in that hand, it wouldn't spill if you jiggled it as much as needed to play a triplet. We're talking a couple of millimeters of movement here, and the pinky side moves even less.
3. To get that relaxed, tiny motion, your hand should be dangling down from the wrist, limp as an old dog's nads. (Sorry, but O'Rourke started it....) If you're wrist is bent back or rigid, it won't work. For this reason, it's easier to play triplets from the middle of the bow up toward the tip rather than down near the frog."
You'll find more helpful advice if you also do a search for Sean Smyth.
# Posted on October 13th 2002 by Will Harmon
Re: How do I get that groovy Rattling sound while playing the fiddle?
Note the bowed triplet's timing.
It's not really a triplet. A real triplet is an even subdivision of two notes into three. The ones we're talking about are much more bunched up to the first note. Your definition as a "rattle" is more acurate, it is over very quickly, right on the beat.
Kevin burke often does a we thing that accentuates the triplet by putting a short rest just before. It makes it sound like a flute player taking a breath. Smart
# Posted on October 13th 2002 by llig leahcim
Re: How do I get that groovy Rattling sound while playing the fiddle?
When I was first taught triplets, I was shown an exercise to practice them both ways (down-up-down, the up-down-up), so I learned them both simultaneously, while practicing my scales.
Easy to practice that way when just warming up.
Thanks to Dale Russ for my first Irish fiddling lesson, where I got that.
# Posted on October 16th 2002 by lees
Re: How do I get that groovy Rattling sound while playing the fiddle?
It's commonly called the treble. There's a good book that show's you how to do it called the Irish Fiddle Book by Matt Cranitch.
# Posted on November 22nd 2002 by A.R. Sweet
Re: How do I get that groovy Rattling sound while playing the fiddle?
I've been taught once that it's a matter of bearing down on the string very hard, to the point of a 'scratch', on the very first note of the triplet. Then, allowing the bow to release and then carry through on the remaining two notes. All this is done very rapidly of course and it should have a percusive 'crunchy' quality about it. If you can hit the first note, the rest should follow nicely.
Also important to use a lead in note before the triplet as this ornament is rarely (if ever) used back to back with another triplet. One satisfiing practice run would be to triplet on the open A string with the following notes
F A 3A | d A 3A
There's my two cents. Now off to bed!
# Posted on November 22nd 2002 by Caoimghgin