Hi there folks,
I'm going to be buying a new box soon and I can choose which tuning to have for the treble reeds in a 2 voice box (this means something to box players - trust me). I'm not sure which to have though. I'd like to compare them so can anyone suggest recordings where they know box players are playing with either? I only have Jackie Daly on Patrick Street recordings and Paul Furey on an old Buskers album from the early 70s, but I can get others from the record library. All suggestions gratefully accepted.
Many thanks
Jim
The conventional wisdom seems to be that the younger the player, the dryer the tuning.
The old time Irish tunings were very wet, even more so that French musette. When you listen to older music, it's very apparent.
The current sound is swing tuning or about 5 cents wet. I personally like the swing tuned sound much more than a heavy musette.
I am having my 4 reed PA retuned so that one of the middle reeds is swing, one dry and one about 15 cents wet, so that I can continue to play some cajun tunes.
I agree with Rog--I prefer swing tuning. That is the way my Saltarelle is tuned. Too dry and the sound loses its character, ends up sounding like a single reed instrument. Too wet and you sound like you belong in a French cafe with a beret and a brown cigarette hanging from the corner of your mouth. Swing tuning gives the sound a little zing, without going overboard.
Oh, one other thought. The guy who sold me my button box (from The Button Box in Amherst, MA) said that a dry box can be made wetter without too much difficulty, but it is almost impossible to retune a wet tuned box to dry tuning. Just something to think about.
I like swing better, too. Sharon Shannon's sound is on the dry side, but bear in mind that she plays a 3-voice, which has a more complex sound.
Jackie Daly's box (also 3-voice) is swing tuned with one of the reeds with a piccolo tuning. Interesting. So your box won't sound like his.
As far as a 2 voice box, try John Williams, who plays a Saltarelle Connemara, dry tuned. His album *Steam* where he plays both concertina and box, is excellent.
If your library has Joe Burke CDs you'll get a pretty good idea of what wet sounds like (he plays a 4-voice box), or Joe Whelan. *They sailed away from Dublin Bay* is a terrific CD (with Liam Farrell on banjo).
My personal feeling is that if you want to play/mesh into a session, rather than always be the dominant sound in the sesh, dry is best. If you want to play fast, I think dry is clearer and not so mushy. (I've been playing the box for a few months, and haven't yet progressed to fast myself)
Good idea, Zazz. Of course, those boxes McCarthy uses are very dry and very wet, so while it illustrates the extremes, it doesn't give an example of the middle ground that swing tuning represents. If my only choice was between those two sounds, I would pick the dry myself.
AlBrown, I had my very wet tuned 2 voice (Weltmeister) retuned dry. The guy did it in a couple of hours and charged me only $60 (australian). I think wettening and drying are faily simple things to do, if you have the right tools/experience.
kjay,
That is good info, shows that you should never depend on just one source before calling something a fact! It may be that because of poor memory, I have misquoted the technician that gave me the info, as he is one of the finest in our region.
You can be sure that when any two fiddle players (and flute players too, for that matter) get together their playing will be wet to a greater or lesser extent, and there's little that can be done about it other than a considerable amount of practice on the part of both players. And since we're not talking about classical tuning, is it really important?
Wet tunings can be nice sometimes, especially for some slow tunes. Dry tunings can be nice as well-it's all relative and a matter of personal choice. In my opinion, the best box is one with valves that can make the tuning dry or wet depending on what you feel like at the moment.
while you're listening for how wet or dry a box is on the spectrum, remember to listen also for whether it's a middle-reed sound, or a low-reed is in the mix. a low reed in the mix can make a wet box sound thick indeed. conversely, middle-reed boxes with a light 10-cent "violin" tremolo (provided it's not too shrill), can sound ravishingly soulful.....somebody could write a dissertation on how the upwardly-mobile stampede not to sound "ethnic" has dried up boxes in nearly all european-based folk styles from irish to french to cajun to tex-mex.....but i predict that while the age of the thick distorted musette may be over, the homogenized, yuppified dry sound currently in vogue will not carry the day in the long run....
Button box tunings - wet v dry?
Button box tunings - wet v dry?
Hi there folks,
I'm going to be buying a new box soon and I can choose which tuning to have for the treble reeds in a 2 voice box (this means something to box players - trust me). I'm not sure which to have though. I'd like to compare them so can anyone suggest recordings where they know box players are playing with either? I only have Jackie Daly on Patrick Street recordings and Paul Furey on an old Buskers album from the early 70s, but I can get others from the record library. All suggestions gratefully accepted.
Many thanks
Jim
# Posted on March 28th 2006 by Kismul
Re: Button box tunings - wet v dry?
try Joe Derrae verses sharron shannon and Benny McCarthy(Dau) for middle ground
# Posted on March 28th 2006 by Monty Mooney
Re: Button box tunings - wet v dry?
The conventional wisdom seems to be that the younger the player, the dryer the tuning.
The old time Irish tunings were very wet, even more so that French musette. When you listen to older music, it's very apparent.
The current sound is swing tuning or about 5 cents wet. I personally like the swing tuned sound much more than a heavy musette.
I am having my 4 reed PA retuned so that one of the middle reeds is swing, one dry and one about 15 cents wet, so that I can continue to play some cajun tunes.
# Posted on March 28th 2006 by rogfox
Re: Button box tunings - wet v dry?
I agree with Rog--I prefer swing tuning. That is the way my Saltarelle is tuned. Too dry and the sound loses its character, ends up sounding like a single reed instrument. Too wet and you sound like you belong in a French cafe with a beret and a brown cigarette hanging from the corner of your mouth. Swing tuning gives the sound a little zing, without going overboard.
# Posted on March 28th 2006 by AlBrown
Re: Button box tunings - wet v dry?
Oh, one other thought. The guy who sold me my button box (from The Button Box in Amherst, MA) said that a dry box can be made wetter without too much difficulty, but it is almost impossible to retune a wet tuned box to dry tuning. Just something to think about.
# Posted on March 28th 2006 by AlBrown
Re: Button box tunings - wet v dry?
I like swing better, too. Sharon Shannon's sound is on the dry side, but bear in mind that she plays a 3-voice, which has a more complex sound.
Jackie Daly's box (also 3-voice) is swing tuned with one of the reeds with a piccolo tuning. Interesting. So your box won't sound like his.
As far as a 2 voice box, try John Williams, who plays a Saltarelle Connemara, dry tuned. His album *Steam* where he plays both concertina and box, is excellent.
If your library has Joe Burke CDs you'll get a pretty good idea of what wet sounds like (he plays a 4-voice box), or Joe Whelan. *They sailed away from Dublin Bay* is a terrific CD (with Liam Farrell on banjo).
# Posted on March 28th 2006 by pennhorse
Re: Button box tunings - wet v dry?
My personal feeling is that if you want to play/mesh into a session, rather than always be the dominant sound in the sesh, dry is best. If you want to play fast, I think dry is clearer and not so mushy. (I've been playing the box for a few months, and haven't yet progressed to fast myself)
# Posted on March 28th 2006 by Ottery
Re: Button box tunings - wet v dry?
Danu's "Up in the Air" has tracks with both Benny McCarthy on a dry accordion and on a wet melodeon. Good for a decision.
# Posted on March 29th 2006 by Zazzaliss
Re: Button box tunings - wet v dry?
Good idea, Zazz. Of course, those boxes McCarthy uses are very dry and very wet, so while it illustrates the extremes, it doesn't give an example of the middle ground that swing tuning represents. If my only choice was between those two sounds, I would pick the dry myself.
# Posted on March 29th 2006 by AlBrown
Re: Button box tunings - wet v dry?
AlBrown, I had my very wet tuned 2 voice (Weltmeister) retuned dry. The guy did it in a couple of hours and charged me only $60 (australian). I think wettening and drying are faily simple things to do, if you have the right tools/experience.
# Posted on March 29th 2006 by kjay_bc_box
Re: Button box tunings - wet v dry?
kjay,
That is good info, shows that you should never depend on just one source before calling something a fact! It may be that because of poor memory, I have misquoted the technician that gave me the info, as he is one of the finest in our region.
# Posted on March 29th 2006 by AlBrown
Re: Button box tunings - wet v dry?
Wet tuning should be outlawed. Offenders should be shot on sight. Be nice to players with sensitive ears and tune dry. Please?
# Posted on March 29th 2006 by Dr. Dow
Re: Button box tunings - wet v dry?
You can be sure that when any two fiddle players (and flute players too, for that matter) get together their playing will be wet to a greater or lesser extent, and there's little that can be done about it other than a considerable amount of practice on the part of both players. And since we're not talking about classical tuning, is it really important?
# Posted on March 29th 2006 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Button box tunings - wet v dry?
Get a P.A. , more choices.
Mine has a fairly wet key, a barely damp key, and 3 dry keys.
I played a Weltmeister last summer that was so wet, you could slide yr finger between the notes
Metaphorically speaking,of course
# Posted on March 29th 2006 by Owell Mabee
Re: Button box tunings - wet v dry?
Dow, you really p*ss me off.
Wet tunings can be nice sometimes, especially for some slow tunes. Dry tunings can be nice as well-it's all relative and a matter of personal choice. In my opinion, the best box is one with valves that can make the tuning dry or wet depending on what you feel like at the moment.
# Posted on March 29th 2006 by Zazzaliss
Re: Button box tunings - wet v dry?
Dow, do you by chance play all the instruments you openly criticize? Or are you just ranting from atop your high horse?
# Posted on March 29th 2006 by Zazzaliss
Re: Button box tunings - wet v dry?
If the accordions are too dry then they can't overwhelm the concertinas.
# Posted on March 30th 2006 by Paul_draper
Re: Button box tunings - wet v dry?
French maker Bernard Loffet has a few sound samples of different tunings (dry, swing and light swing) on this page: http://diato.org/son.htm
Steve
# Posted on March 30th 2006 by Jeeves Tones
Re: Button box tunings - wet v dry?
Hi there Zazzaliss, nice to meet you. I'm fine how the feck are you.
# Posted on March 30th 2006 by Dr. Dow
Re: Button box tunings - wet v dry?
while you're listening for how wet or dry a box is on the spectrum, remember to listen also for whether it's a middle-reed sound, or a low-reed is in the mix. a low reed in the mix can make a wet box sound thick indeed. conversely, middle-reed boxes with a light 10-cent "violin" tremolo (provided it's not too shrill), can sound ravishingly soulful.....somebody could write a dissertation on how the upwardly-mobile stampede not to sound "ethnic" has dried up boxes in nearly all european-based folk styles from irish to french to cajun to tex-mex.....but i predict that while the age of the thick distorted musette may be over, the homogenized, yuppified dry sound currently in vogue will not carry the day in the long run....
# Posted on April 1st 2006 by ceemonster