Okay -- so we've been joking on and off about tunes that some people just can't stand. Nobody should take it personally, of course, (at least *I* think so) if someone else hates a tune you happen to personally like. But I'm curious as to what everyone's favorite tune-that-makes-them-break-out-in-hives is, but most importantly, WHY it's your least favorite tune? (Or tunes!) We've had De'il Among the Tailors, for instance, and Britches Full of Stitches, and Paddy Whack (I don't even know which tune that is).
I'm still laughing about "this tune sounds like the way ants think"!
Hmmm...let's see...I think my least favorite tune is probably...Rakes of Mallow. I always think it's like the Irish trad equivalent to Mary Had A Little Lamb. I once heard a fiddler play it who fancied it all up, did all kinds of stuff to it, made it stand on it's HEAD...and I still hated it.
C'mon, Brad...Will...I'm counting on you guys to give me a few more laughs here! Heh.
The "Black Velvet Band" isn't really a tune that I come across at sessions much so it hasn't worn a hole in my patience. I have to agree that most of the "Green Beer" songs are pertty much crap.
As far as tunes I'm not too fond of "Off She Goes" and "The Concertina Reel" they just bore me
Well, yes, the Green Beer Ballads are mostly pretty nauseating - shall I add "Wild Rover", "The Irish Rover" and "Galway Bay" to the list? The only thing that saves "The Rose of Tralee" is sentiment - my father used to sing it to my mother on their anniversary every year (try not to gag, I know...)
As for tunes, beautiful as it is "The Butterfly" is in serious danger of over-exposure. Don't get me wrong, I love it - but, my gods, it gets played CONSTANTLY!
Anything that gets played all the time,unless it's a grade A sure-fire class 1 copper-bottomed indestructible tune is in danger of appearing on your hit list and even then...At the moment,if I never hear 'The Fields of Athenry' or 'The Green Fields of France'(Willie McBride) it will be too soon.These are n't bad songs at all but you can get sick of listening to one too many person giving their rendition when all they can remember are the first two lines AND the bloody funereal pace they take.Aaaaaargh. Plus there's a fair few polkas I can do without-again, perfectly decent tunes but in one sesion I'm at these come up time and time again.Snobby attitude? Possibly,but I don't care
.As for tunes, I can easily live without the Sally Gardens(reel,that is) and the Mason's Apron and the Soldier's Joy;I can't tell you why, so there we are.Hmmm...
*giggle* Yes, but Dave, do you know the NAMES of those polkas? Hehehehe...
I still rather like Mason's Apron, but we don't play it at our sessions too terribly often. Sally Gardens I sort of think of as a beginner's tune, so I end up playing it with our beginners quite a bit. I haven't gotten too tired of it yet, but I think the day is approaching...
Brad, IS Paddy Whack a trad tune? I've never heard it. I'll have to see if we have it in the archives...
I wish I could take some delight from staking out the high moral ground after so many of you have revealed your dark sides, so maybe I will.
There appears to be some advantage to living in the boondocks. I don't get to hear IRTRAD tunes often enough to grow tired of any of them. The downside is that I do sometimes hear weak renditions of some great tunes, because Montana is not yet a hotbed of young turks cranking out the crack and rolls.
Sure, the Consarntina Reel can grow a little stale, but it comes back to life if you swing it and look for ways to breathe new ideas into the melody. Point being, any tune can be played with all the gusto of a wooden post, but whose fault is that? The few occasions where I've rolled my eyes at a tune, I have to admit that the boredom with it came from my own lack of imagination and talent to play it better.
So, no, there aren't any tunes that I hate. After twenty years of playing, that's reassuring to me. Geez, I still play Si Beag Si Mor just for fun (tho usually in the privacy of my basement).
That said, I've been known to nod off during too long a set of "northern" tunes that are endless variations on string crossings and triplets: Harvest Home, Dinky's, Crossing the Minch, Gravel Walks, etc. Taken separately, I like them all, and they can add flavor to a night of Sligo or Clare or Galway tunes. But when stacked together I start looking around the circle to see who uncased the four-stringed jackhammer....
And I realize that at least one solution to that particular sound would be to dream up a variation that doesn't allow bowed triplets--in other words, solve the problem of how to make Harvest Home *interesting* without resorting to triplets.
I just sat in on a workshop with Kevin Burke, and he used Drowsy Maggie to demonstrate some bowing ideas. Imagine how many times Kevin's played that tune. Yes, he could play the "standard" version spot on, but he also threw a dozen variations at us in less than 30 seconds, and he only stopped because some students' eyes glazed over.
So don't give up on the tunes that've worn thin--find ways to pump up those old bones.
A friend of mine has a story that is similiar to this subject. Several years ago, he was becoming interested in playing Irish fiddle. He was in a music shop in Ireland and picked up a session fake book and proceeded to sight read a dozen or so tunes. He looked at the owner of the shop and said "How can anyone like this stuff? It all sounds the same!" The shop owner gently said, "I suppose it depends on who's playing it". Ouch! But, instead of becoming offended, as some people would, he took that advice to heart and is probably one of the best session fiddlers I know of. He discovered it's more about the approach to the tune than the actual tune itself.
I firmly believe that 'old tunes' became old because they were great tunes to begin with. To jump genres, 'Stairway To Heaven' is a great song, but I can't stand to hear it because I have heard it too many times before. However, I'm always up to hear another band give their spin on the song.
Aaagh. Si Beag Si Mor. I'd forgotten about Si Beag Si Mor. hehehe
When I started all this, Will, the reason I laid the emphasis on WHY is because I was hoping that in that way, I'd gain a little more insight into the whole "what is good" "what is not-so-good" of the tune thing.
I don't just mean that about tune making, but in playing the tunes, I find it interestingwhen someone hears a tune for the first time, they often will say something like, ah, that's the real stuff there -- but rarely say why it's the real stuff. Yeah, an open session isn't usually the place to ask why, but also they often can't tell you what they necessarily mean by that positive... Often, it's when we examine what we DON'T like about something that we start to bring to light what it is that we DO like about the good stuff, what it is that defines "the good stuff". And examining how a tune is put together -- the chord progression, the patterns of the thing -- seem to be key to variation, and as someone who has not gotten good enough yet to go charging off into variation city, I'm only starting to examine those issues.
Oh well, and yeah, I was also hoping for a few more giggles! heh.
Hey! Have only been playing trad flute for 2 years but already cant stand Maggie in The Wood, Dennis Murphy's, the Caheroe Jig, etc. the sort of stuff that you play over and over in the beginning just so that it sounds vaguely like its supposed to. On the other hand, I find such tunes asThe Cup of Tea,The Rambling Pitchfork & The Mist on the Mountain far more interesting , though just as well known. It seems to me that some tunes can stand the test of time and the "Oh, that again" factor, while others simply can't.
Zina, you're rephrasing of the questions makes more sense to me now (hence my own rephrasing of the header), and I'll take a stab at it, tho I can't promise any rib ticklers.
The real stuff gets my feet going before my head realizes what's happening. The real stuff reaches in with a modal chord here and a high aching phrase set off against a low sorrowful drone, and then leaps into a second half full of verve and hope and outright joy in a rollicking major key. The real stuff is unpredictable even when you've heard it a thousand times, and a little edgy, like maybe the player isn't going to pull it off, but then it turns out fine or better than fine, "silky," as Kevin Burke puts it, and the resolve onto the last note hits me right where I breathe.
And the real stuff either doesn't have a title to it (It Goes as Follies), or it's some double entendre or inside joke (Upstairs in a Tent), or it's just so quirky it has to be good (The Cat's Rambles to the Child's Saucepan).
Of course, the real question is why do all these musical vibrations and beats and intervals stir us so? Why are humans wired to respond to any of this stuff? And how, as players, do we learn to tap into any of it, especially with authority and consistency and ease?
As Ciaran Carson says, "the notes are not the tune."
Enough metaphysics? Let me try to put it in more mundane terms. One of the simpler reels that strikes my fancy is Mullingar Races. I've played it for a year or so, and had warmed up on it the other day in preparation for Kevin Burke's workshop. Then came the workshop. More than two hours and a dozen fiddlers in a room with Mr. Burke. He talked and played and we listened. We never played a lick. I didn't get a chance to sit down with my fiddle and try out some of Burke's ideas until the next day. And I played Mullingar Races. Without consciously trying, it came out completely different than I'd ever played it before. Now, each note--the melodic line--was the same, but I had uncovered some wealth of lift and lilt in the tune that had been hidden before.
What was the difference? Four things. (1) I shifted the beat around, accenting different notes. I noticed the beat tended to fall more often on the 3rd and 7th beats of each bar more than before, but other notes also jumped out. (2) I slurred my bowing across the beats and across the bars more often, linking a weak beat onto a strong one without banging the strong one on a separate down bow every time. (3) I slowed down, but gained liveliness. The pace dropped just a notch or two from where I normally played this tune, but the lift quota came way up. Mechanically, I think this came from having more time to vary the length and emphasis of each note--to "play" with the tune. And I was using slightly shorter bow strokes, yet with a more relaxed wrist than before. (Burke's analogy was your forearm is the handle of a paint brush, and your hand and bow are the brisltes. The forearm leads the motion up and down, and the wrist and hand and bow lag fluidly behind. This wasn't new to me, but paying attention to it again helped loosen up an already flexible wrist.) And (4) despite all this cogitation, or more accurately after going thru it, I was able to quit thinking about technique and the notes and just "sing" or "say" the tune using my hand and fingers. It's like singing, except you don't use your lungs or voice box. Just the hands and fingers doing what they already know how to do. This is mostly a matter of relaxing. Burke again: attack the tune with a mental fierceness, but stay physically relaxed.
Does any of this help? The thing is, after hearing Burke articulate this stuff, I can see in my mind's eye every good player I've ever heard in person and recall that relaxed, effortless look to their arms and hands, and at the same time an alertness to their face, even when their eyes were closed.
Ohhh...I've rambled too long, and nary a giggle. Sorry. But these ideas can spark an epiphany of sorts if you let them. And thank Kevin for sharing with us mere mortals....
Will
And the playing (too often my own) I'd rather not listen to is overly deliberate, predictable, dogged in marking the beat, relentlessly the same, void of risks, too fast to be lively, frantic rather than relaxed, and loud in the loud parts and quiet in the quiet parts (duh...mix it up once in a while!).
Some I do like & reasons why I think some stink...
I guess there's two reasons a tune will strike me as a mundane tune, 1) Becuase there isn't much to it & 2) because I've heard it way too much. The second reason is a moot point, most people who've been playing for more than a year develop certain likes & dislikes. The second point is harder to define.
I like tunes that use a fairly wide range & are not very repetitive, but If a tune has more of an emphasis on solely being hard to play or notes all over the place it can take away from the tune as well. The reason why I stated the "Concertina Reel" is becuase it doesn't have much range, emphasises two notes & is super repetitive. It also doesn't allow for as much variation as most other tunes do. I guess the "Devils Dream" falls into that catagory as well. I remember someone stated that they thought it was good when played really fast, I think it sounds good fast b/c it has little melody (it's just two broken chords). If a tune is good you can play it slow as an air, & it doesn't need speed to make sound good.
I noticed that I like tunes with triplet runs like in Bonnie Kate, or Farrel O'Gara's. Nice surprising chord changes like the "Providence Reel" or "Bunker Hill". or rhythmic quirks like "Paddy Taylors Reel"(aka Tripping Up The Stairs) or the "Clumsy Lover".
In short here's a quick analogy...
In America we serve beer ice cold so that ones tastebuds don't have the misfortune of actually tasting "Pabst Blue Ribbon", In ITM we play four note reels fast so we don't actually have the misfortune of realising it stinks (& hopefully the tune will be over quicker).
Hmmm. Let's see now...I'm trying to come up with tunes that don't have much to them that people DO like...to see if there are any exceptions to that rule...
Will, like *I'm* going to complain about somebody rambling on? At least it isn't ME for once! Heh. You're always an interesting read. Don't worry about it.
Actually, I kind of like the hypnotic quality of the Concertina -- it's like you're building up this sort of tension to get released into the tune that comes after...if you know what I mean. Of course, more than, say, three times through and I'm starting to think about the grocery list...
Okay, so maybe there are some tunes that are the instrumental equivalent of cry in your beer songs. Si Beag Si Mor and Crested Hens (a sequel to the William Carlos Williams poem?) fit that category. But I can get into even these tunes as long as I'm not playing them for other listeners. Anyone else have that experience of connecting more with a tune when it's just YOU and the TUNE?
Sure, other players can add a lot, musically and just jolts of energy, and an audience can do the same sometimes. But many of my peak experiences as a musician come when I'm alone and pretty sure no one else is listening. Then I can forget the larger world and really pierce to the heart of the tune. And even some corny tunes are remarkably profound in that frame of mind.
'Course an unlit basement with a few empty longnecks rolling around makes for a relatively liquid frame of mind.....
Will
Back to your Mullingar Races experience. My classical violin teacher used to tell me not to punch the first beat of every measure, just like you said. His reasoning was that because it's the first beat, the listener's ear gives it a subconscious punch to begin with. So it makes your playing sound mechanical and lifeless.
Finding the other accent beats in a tune brings it to life because it's more like the way people talk, with almost random-seeming emphasis that actually has its own subtle rhythm. There's no formula for that, and no way to teach it - you just keep going and one day, if you're lucky, you feel it. And if you're really lucky, you don't forget it the next day!
I wanted to comment here, but felt I did not carry enough "musical" weight to form an intelligent argument. I have only been playing for four short years, and to be truthful, have not grown tired of playing any tune yet. This may be because I am so new it. However, it strikes me that the repetition of playing a song has worn away the newness and freshness of a tune. I don't mean to be a sentimental sot, but the complaints are all from fairly experienced players who seem to have lost the wonder and excitement that a new tune offers. A personal old standard has been played so many times that it has lost it's challenge, excitement, and grown stale, yet taking the approach of Will with regards to his Kevin Burke experience, he has reinvigorated the tune. I like to use sports metaphors for explaing myself...the rookie brings excitement to an old and experienced team that rejuvenates the entire ensemble. The routine becomes boring and the challenge is to overcoming the routine. Now, having said all that I can't wait to get to a place in my playing that I am bored & sick and tired of playing a tune...any tune! Tom Joyce
I've never been able to get interested in a tune from reading it out of a book, or even from this website, without already having heard it played very well. I actually get bored of sifting through sheet music and listening to midi files of Irish music. I even get bored of listening to myself playing it. It's just plain boring to me - all of it - unless it's done very very well. The only reason I can bear to listen to myself playing it is because I intend to eventually be very good.
So basically I hate the whole damn genre until a very advanced player can express a tune with all its beautiful nuances and emotions, and then I love it all so much it nearly makes me cry.
Gord Stobbe, a great player and writer from Nova Scotia told me a bunch of stuff that has stuck with me, and I am slowly learning to apply. One piece of it was that every tune has a few notes in it that make it stand out - that make it different from all the other tunes, and in learning it, one must find them and bring them out. (He wasn't any more specific about "how" but from listening to him play, I think I understand.) When I player is able to do this, there's nothing that bores me.
there are some tunes that are just played with an accordion and they remind me of dutch traditional dancing (yes, that's done with wooden shoes on) and they are just horrible! I can't come up with any name right now but my teeth surely itch when i hear em!
Tunes You Hate & WHY
Tunes You Hate & WHY
Okay -- so we've been joking on and off about tunes that some people just can't stand. Nobody should take it personally, of course, (at least *I* think so) if someone else hates a tune you happen to personally like. But I'm curious as to what everyone's favorite tune-that-makes-them-break-out-in-hives is, but most importantly, WHY it's your least favorite tune? (Or tunes!) We've had De'il Among the Tailors, for instance, and Britches Full of Stitches, and Paddy Whack (I don't even know which tune that is).
I'm still laughing about "this tune sounds like the way ants think"!
Hmmm...let's see...I think my least favorite tune is probably...Rakes of Mallow. I always think it's like the Irish trad equivalent to Mary Had A Little Lamb. I once heard a fiddler play it who fancied it all up, did all kinds of stuff to it, made it stand on it's HEAD...and I still hated it.
C'mon, Brad...Will...I'm counting on you guys to give me a few more laughs here! Heh.
Zina
# Posted on September 8th 2001 by Zina Lee
Re: Tunes You Hate & WHY
Well, there aren't so many tunes that make my teeth itch, but the next time I hear "Black Velvet Band" I'm taking hostages!
# Posted on September 8th 2001 by JeffK627
Re: Tunes You Hate & WHY
Teeth itch! Hehehehe....
# Posted on September 8th 2001 by Zina Lee
Re: Tunes You Hate & WHY
The "Black Velvet Band" isn't really a tune that I come across at sessions much so it hasn't worn a hole in my patience. I have to agree that most of the "Green Beer" songs are pertty much crap.
As far as tunes I'm not too fond of "Off She Goes" and "The Concertina Reel" they just bore me
# Posted on September 9th 2001 by B Rad
Re: Tunes You Hate & WHY
Well, yes, the Green Beer Ballads are mostly pretty nauseating - shall I add "Wild Rover", "The Irish Rover" and "Galway Bay" to the list? The only thing that saves "The Rose of Tralee" is sentiment - my father used to sing it to my mother on their anniversary every year (try not to gag, I know...)
As for tunes, beautiful as it is "The Butterfly" is in serious danger of over-exposure. Don't get me wrong, I love it - but, my gods, it gets played CONSTANTLY!
# Posted on September 9th 2001 by JeffK627
Re: Tunes You Hate & WHY
Anything that gets played all the time,unless it's a grade A sure-fire class 1 copper-bottomed indestructible tune is in danger of appearing on your hit list and even then...At the moment,if I never hear 'The Fields of Athenry' or 'The Green Fields of France'(Willie McBride) it will be too soon.These are n't bad songs at all but you can get sick of listening to one too many person giving their rendition when all they can remember are the first two lines AND the bloody funereal pace they take.Aaaaaargh. Plus there's a fair few polkas I can do without-again, perfectly decent tunes but in one sesion I'm at these come up time and time again.Snobby attitude? Possibly,but I don't care
.As for tunes, I can easily live without the Sally Gardens(reel,that is) and the Mason's Apron and the Soldier's Joy;I can't tell you why, so there we are.Hmmm...
# Posted on September 9th 2001 by biggus dave
*giggle* Yes, but Dave, do you know the NAMES of those polkas? Hehehehe...
I still rather like Mason's Apron, but we don't play it at our sessions too terribly often. Sally Gardens I sort of think of as a beginner's tune, so I end up playing it with our beginners quite a bit. I haven't gotten too tired of it yet, but I think the day is approaching...
Brad, IS Paddy Whack a trad tune? I've never heard it. I'll have to see if we have it in the archives...
# Posted on September 9th 2001 by Zina Lee
Re: Tunes You Hate & WHY
In view of previous comments of the naming and shaming of polkas I claim the fifth!!
# Posted on September 9th 2001 by biggus dave
Re: Tunes You Hate & WHY
Hm. CAN you Brits claim the fifth? I dunno....heh....
# Posted on September 10th 2001 by Zina Lee
Is it the tune, or the way it's played?
I wish I could take some delight from staking out the high moral ground after so many of you have revealed your dark sides, so maybe I will.
There appears to be some advantage to living in the boondocks. I don't get to hear IRTRAD tunes often enough to grow tired of any of them. The downside is that I do sometimes hear weak renditions of some great tunes, because Montana is not yet a hotbed of young turks cranking out the crack and rolls.
Sure, the Consarntina Reel can grow a little stale, but it comes back to life if you swing it and look for ways to breathe new ideas into the melody. Point being, any tune can be played with all the gusto of a wooden post, but whose fault is that? The few occasions where I've rolled my eyes at a tune, I have to admit that the boredom with it came from my own lack of imagination and talent to play it better.
So, no, there aren't any tunes that I hate. After twenty years of playing, that's reassuring to me. Geez, I still play Si Beag Si Mor just for fun (tho usually in the privacy of my basement).
That said, I've been known to nod off during too long a set of "northern" tunes that are endless variations on string crossings and triplets: Harvest Home, Dinky's, Crossing the Minch, Gravel Walks, etc. Taken separately, I like them all, and they can add flavor to a night of Sligo or Clare or Galway tunes. But when stacked together I start looking around the circle to see who uncased the four-stringed jackhammer....
And I realize that at least one solution to that particular sound would be to dream up a variation that doesn't allow bowed triplets--in other words, solve the problem of how to make Harvest Home *interesting* without resorting to triplets.
I just sat in on a workshop with Kevin Burke, and he used Drowsy Maggie to demonstrate some bowing ideas. Imagine how many times Kevin's played that tune. Yes, he could play the "standard" version spot on, but he also threw a dozen variations at us in less than 30 seconds, and he only stopped because some students' eyes glazed over.
So don't give up on the tunes that've worn thin--find ways to pump up those old bones.
Will
# Posted on September 10th 2001 by Will Harmon
Re: Tunes You Hate & WHY
I agree with Will Harmon 100%.
A friend of mine has a story that is similiar to this subject. Several years ago, he was becoming interested in playing Irish fiddle. He was in a music shop in Ireland and picked up a session fake book and proceeded to sight read a dozen or so tunes. He looked at the owner of the shop and said "How can anyone like this stuff? It all sounds the same!" The shop owner gently said, "I suppose it depends on who's playing it". Ouch! But, instead of becoming offended, as some people would, he took that advice to heart and is probably one of the best session fiddlers I know of. He discovered it's more about the approach to the tune than the actual tune itself.
I firmly believe that 'old tunes' became old because they were great tunes to begin with. To jump genres, 'Stairway To Heaven' is a great song, but I can't stand to hear it because I have heard it too many times before. However, I'm always up to hear another band give their spin on the song.
# Posted on September 10th 2001 by Caoimghgin
Re: Tunes You Hate & WHY
Aaagh. Si Beag Si Mor. I'd forgotten about Si Beag Si Mor. hehehe
When I started all this, Will, the reason I laid the emphasis on WHY is because I was hoping that in that way, I'd gain a little more insight into the whole "what is good" "what is not-so-good" of the tune thing.
I don't just mean that about tune making, but in playing the tunes, I find it interestingwhen someone hears a tune for the first time, they often will say something like, ah, that's the real stuff there -- but rarely say why it's the real stuff. Yeah, an open session isn't usually the place to ask why, but also they often can't tell you what they necessarily mean by that positive... Often, it's when we examine what we DON'T like about something that we start to bring to light what it is that we DO like about the good stuff, what it is that defines "the good stuff". And examining how a tune is put together -- the chord progression, the patterns of the thing -- seem to be key to variation, and as someone who has not gotten good enough yet to go charging off into variation city, I'm only starting to examine those issues.
Oh well, and yeah, I was also hoping for a few more giggles! heh.
Zina
# Posted on September 10th 2001 by Zina Lee
Re: Tunes You Hate & WHY
Hey! Have only been playing trad flute for 2 years but already cant stand Maggie in The Wood, Dennis Murphy's, the Caheroe Jig, etc. the sort of stuff that you play over and over in the beginning just so that it sounds vaguely like its supposed to. On the other hand, I find such tunes asThe Cup of Tea,The Rambling Pitchfork & The Mist on the Mountain far more interesting , though just as well known. It seems to me that some tunes can stand the test of time and the "Oh, that again" factor, while others simply can't.
# Posted on September 10th 2001 by Bonxie
Playing I'd rather not listen to, and WHY
Zina, you're rephrasing of the questions makes more sense to me now (hence my own rephrasing of the header), and I'll take a stab at it, tho I can't promise any rib ticklers.
The real stuff gets my feet going before my head realizes what's happening. The real stuff reaches in with a modal chord here and a high aching phrase set off against a low sorrowful drone, and then leaps into a second half full of verve and hope and outright joy in a rollicking major key. The real stuff is unpredictable even when you've heard it a thousand times, and a little edgy, like maybe the player isn't going to pull it off, but then it turns out fine or better than fine, "silky," as Kevin Burke puts it, and the resolve onto the last note hits me right where I breathe.
And the real stuff either doesn't have a title to it (It Goes as Follies), or it's some double entendre or inside joke (Upstairs in a Tent), or it's just so quirky it has to be good (The Cat's Rambles to the Child's Saucepan).
Of course, the real question is why do all these musical vibrations and beats and intervals stir us so? Why are humans wired to respond to any of this stuff? And how, as players, do we learn to tap into any of it, especially with authority and consistency and ease?
As Ciaran Carson says, "the notes are not the tune."
Enough metaphysics? Let me try to put it in more mundane terms. One of the simpler reels that strikes my fancy is Mullingar Races. I've played it for a year or so, and had warmed up on it the other day in preparation for Kevin Burke's workshop. Then came the workshop. More than two hours and a dozen fiddlers in a room with Mr. Burke. He talked and played and we listened. We never played a lick. I didn't get a chance to sit down with my fiddle and try out some of Burke's ideas until the next day. And I played Mullingar Races. Without consciously trying, it came out completely different than I'd ever played it before. Now, each note--the melodic line--was the same, but I had uncovered some wealth of lift and lilt in the tune that had been hidden before.
What was the difference? Four things. (1) I shifted the beat around, accenting different notes. I noticed the beat tended to fall more often on the 3rd and 7th beats of each bar more than before, but other notes also jumped out. (2) I slurred my bowing across the beats and across the bars more often, linking a weak beat onto a strong one without banging the strong one on a separate down bow every time. (3) I slowed down, but gained liveliness. The pace dropped just a notch or two from where I normally played this tune, but the lift quota came way up. Mechanically, I think this came from having more time to vary the length and emphasis of each note--to "play" with the tune. And I was using slightly shorter bow strokes, yet with a more relaxed wrist than before. (Burke's analogy was your forearm is the handle of a paint brush, and your hand and bow are the brisltes. The forearm leads the motion up and down, and the wrist and hand and bow lag fluidly behind. This wasn't new to me, but paying attention to it again helped loosen up an already flexible wrist.) And (4) despite all this cogitation, or more accurately after going thru it, I was able to quit thinking about technique and the notes and just "sing" or "say" the tune using my hand and fingers. It's like singing, except you don't use your lungs or voice box. Just the hands and fingers doing what they already know how to do. This is mostly a matter of relaxing. Burke again: attack the tune with a mental fierceness, but stay physically relaxed.
Does any of this help? The thing is, after hearing Burke articulate this stuff, I can see in my mind's eye every good player I've ever heard in person and recall that relaxed, effortless look to their arms and hands, and at the same time an alertness to their face, even when their eyes were closed.
Ohhh...I've rambled too long, and nary a giggle. Sorry. But these ideas can spark an epiphany of sorts if you let them. And thank Kevin for sharing with us mere mortals....
Will
# Posted on September 10th 2001 by Will Harmon
Re: Tunes You Hate & WHY
On the subject of 'S
# Posted on September 10th 2001 by CreadurMawnOrganig
And the playing (too often my own) I'd rather not listen to is overly deliberate, predictable, dogged in marking the beat, relentlessly the same, void of risks, too fast to be lively, frantic rather than relaxed, and loud in the loud parts and quiet in the quiet parts (duh...mix it up once in a while!).
# Posted on September 10th 2001 by Will Harmon
Some I do like & reasons why I think some stink...
I guess there's two reasons a tune will strike me as a mundane tune, 1) Becuase there isn't much to it & 2) because I've heard it way too much. The second reason is a moot point, most people who've been playing for more than a year develop certain likes & dislikes. The second point is harder to define.
I like tunes that use a fairly wide range & are not very repetitive, but If a tune has more of an emphasis on solely being hard to play or notes all over the place it can take away from the tune as well. The reason why I stated the "Concertina Reel" is becuase it doesn't have much range, emphasises two notes & is super repetitive. It also doesn't allow for as much variation as most other tunes do. I guess the "Devils Dream" falls into that catagory as well. I remember someone stated that they thought it was good when played really fast, I think it sounds good fast b/c it has little melody (it's just two broken chords). If a tune is good you can play it slow as an air, & it doesn't need speed to make sound good.
I noticed that I like tunes with triplet runs like in Bonnie Kate, or Farrel O'Gara's. Nice surprising chord changes like the "Providence Reel" or "Bunker Hill". or rhythmic quirks like "Paddy Taylors Reel"(aka Tripping Up The Stairs) or the "Clumsy Lover".
In short here's a quick analogy...
In America we serve beer ice cold so that ones tastebuds don't have the misfortune of actually tasting "Pabst Blue Ribbon", In ITM we play four note reels fast so we don't actually have the misfortune of realising it stinks (& hopefully the tune will be over quicker).
# Posted on September 10th 2001 by B Rad
Re: Tunes You Hate & WHY
Hmmm. Let's see now...I'm trying to come up with tunes that don't have much to them that people DO like...to see if there are any exceptions to that rule...
Will, like *I'm* going to complain about somebody rambling on? At least it isn't ME for once! Heh. You're always an interesting read. Don't worry about it.
Zina
# Posted on September 10th 2001 by Zina Lee
Concertina
Actually, I kind of like the hypnotic quality of the Concertina -- it's like you're building up this sort of tension to get released into the tune that comes after...if you know what I mean. Of course, more than, say, three times through and I'm starting to think about the grocery list...
# Posted on September 10th 2001 by Zina Lee
Oh, and PS
"Pabst Blue Ribbon". *snicker* Brad, you never let me down. Heh.
# Posted on September 10th 2001 by Zina Lee
Re: Tunes You Hate & WHY
Crested Hens rears its ugly head occasionally ever since it was recorded by Seamus Egan.
I didn't like it when he recorded it. I don't like it at the local session. It's a real milksop tune.
John Harvey
Rhodeirish.net
http://www.rhodeirish.net
# Posted on September 12th 2001 by Jdharv
Re: Tunes You Hate & WHY
Okay, so maybe there are some tunes that are the instrumental equivalent of cry in your beer songs. Si Beag Si Mor and Crested Hens (a sequel to the William Carlos Williams poem?) fit that category. But I can get into even these tunes as long as I'm not playing them for other listeners. Anyone else have that experience of connecting more with a tune when it's just YOU and the TUNE?
Sure, other players can add a lot, musically and just jolts of energy, and an audience can do the same sometimes. But many of my peak experiences as a musician come when I'm alone and pretty sure no one else is listening. Then I can forget the larger world and really pierce to the heart of the tune. And even some corny tunes are remarkably profound in that frame of mind.
'Course an unlit basement with a few empty longnecks rolling around makes for a relatively liquid frame of mind.....
Will
# Posted on September 13th 2001 by Will Harmon
Re: Tunes You Hate & WHY
Will,
Back to your Mullingar Races experience. My classical violin teacher used to tell me not to punch the first beat of every measure, just like you said. His reasoning was that because it's the first beat, the listener's ear gives it a subconscious punch to begin with. So it makes your playing sound mechanical and lifeless.
Finding the other accent beats in a tune brings it to life because it's more like the way people talk, with almost random-seeming emphasis that actually has its own subtle rhythm. There's no formula for that, and no way to teach it - you just keep going and one day, if you're lucky, you feel it. And if you're really lucky, you don't forget it the next day!
# Posted on September 13th 2001 by JeffK627
Re: Tunes You Hate & WHY
I wanted to comment here, but felt I did not carry enough "musical" weight to form an intelligent argument. I have only been playing for four short years, and to be truthful, have not grown tired of playing any tune yet. This may be because I am so new it. However, it strikes me that the repetition of playing a song has worn away the newness and freshness of a tune. I don't mean to be a sentimental sot, but the complaints are all from fairly experienced players who seem to have lost the wonder and excitement that a new tune offers. A personal old standard has been played so many times that it has lost it's challenge, excitement, and grown stale, yet taking the approach of Will with regards to his Kevin Burke experience, he has reinvigorated the tune. I like to use sports metaphors for explaing myself...the rookie brings excitement to an old and experienced team that rejuvenates the entire ensemble. The routine becomes boring and the challenge is to overcoming the routine. Now, having said all that I can't wait to get to a place in my playing that I am bored & sick and tired of playing a tune...any tune! Tom Joyce
# Posted on September 16th 2001 by LoWhistle
Why no-one can tell you why...
I've never been able to get interested in a tune from reading it out of a book, or even from this website, without already having heard it played very well. I actually get bored of sifting through sheet music and listening to midi files of Irish music. I even get bored of listening to myself playing it. It's just plain boring to me - all of it - unless it's done very very well. The only reason I can bear to listen to myself playing it is because I intend to eventually be very good.
So basically I hate the whole damn genre until a very advanced player can express a tune with all its beautiful nuances and emotions, and then I love it all so much it nearly makes me cry.
Gord Stobbe, a great player and writer from Nova Scotia told me a bunch of stuff that has stuck with me, and I am slowly learning to apply. One piece of it was that every tune has a few notes in it that make it stand out - that make it different from all the other tunes, and in learning it, one must find them and bring them out. (He wasn't any more specific about "how" but from listening to him play, I think I understand.) When I player is able to do this, there's nothing that bores me.
I should go and do some work.
# Posted on September 17th 2001 by Kerri Brown
Re: Tunes You Hate & WHY
there are some tunes that are just played with an accordion and they remind me of dutch traditional dancing (yes, that's done with wooden shoes on) and they are just horrible! I can't come up with any name right now but my teeth surely itch when i hear em!
# Posted on September 18th 2001 by Irishdancer
Re: Tunes You Hate & WHY
Hi to everybody!
It
# Posted on September 19th 2001 by Joerg Froese