I'd be curious to see someone fingerpicking a tune at session speed, but I do know an octave-mandola player who often fingerpicks on it for song accompaniment, so why not on the mandolin ?
These days people are less hung-up about rules for the correct way to play instruments.
It is mandatory to get the best sound you can out of your instrument. Personally, although I may occasionally strum with my fingers, or play arpeggiated chords fingerstyle, I have never managed to get a strong enough tone using my fingers to play tunes - neither could I achieve the speed for jigs, reels etc.. I did once stumble across a fingerpicking mandolin arrangement of a ragtime tune in an old issue of some guitar and mandolin journal -but ragtime's a different jar of elephants, and is generally played solo, without the need to compete for volume with other instruments.
Monkey - You may find it easier fingerpicking tunes at home, but if you want to be heard, or even to hear yourself, above the fiddles, boxes and general rhubarb, I think you will find a plectrum useful - and all it takes is a bit of practice. I see from your profile that you already have a repertoire of tunes on the fiddle, so your LH already knows what to do.
Ultimately it is the result that counts, not how you achieve it. So, if you become the first All-Ireland champion on fingerpicking mandolin, I will take my hat off to you and stand most humbly corrected.
Californian Kenny Hall, now in his 80s, has always finger-picked his mandolin. Plays the Neopolitan sort, squeezing the bowl into the folds of his belly, holding it upright, and relying on mighty thick nails to get out an incredible sound. He is a mainstay in West Coast traditional music, with an enormous repertoire and a 78 collection that he started in the 30s that includes lots of Celtic, as well as Mexican, Portugese, old-timey, rag-time and more. I don't think his recordings have been reissued on CD, but the LPs are treasures, featuring tunes he got from John Kimmel, and Philadelphia's Four Provinces before WWII.
mglass
Tha Andean charango is sort of similar to the mandolin and charango players use their fingers to play, but that instrument is voiced and strung for it.
I’ve flirted with fingerpicking on the mando, but the string spacing is too tight for me and it’s hard to push a lot of sound out of it. One thing that’s pretty cool, though, is playing tremelo supported by thumb arpeggios. If you’re familiar with classical guitar music, I’m talking about something in the style of Recuerdos de la Alhambra. It’s cool, but really just a one-shot novelty. But, then, aren’t we all?
The Portugese guitarra [more mandola than guitar] is played with the fingers. They sometimes use a special pick attached to the end of the index finger for tremelo.It is held on with a bit of elastic and sits under the nail. It can be used on both the up and down stroke.
Balalaika is also played without a plectrum mostly with just the index finger.
I cant imagine getting enough volume finger picking a mandolin at a session.Its hard enough being heard at the best of times.
For some mean finger picking on a mandolin, check out Ry Cooder's "Billy the Kid" on "Into The Purple Valley" recording. Sure, it's not ITM, but it's damn good.
I just attended a workshop with Radim Zenkl, the former US national mandolin champion, who is originally from Yugoslavia. He played a tune that he wrote, fingerpicking it on a custom 4-string mandola. He played wicked fast, easily fast enough for ITM.
Also, Mickey Cochran, the owner of the Folk of the Wood online music store (this is not a recommendation of that store, BTW, but that is a whole other story) is a very accomplished mandolin fingerpicker and has videos of him doing it on his site. He does reels and hornpipes, full speed, and it sounds great.
I mounted Aquila's Nylgut 4 string set to tune a ukulele like a mandola on an instrument I built. For fingerpicking solo or song accompaniment (or with pick-up or microphone) the volume is fine. I decided to try metal strings (for the first time) on one of my instruments after performing some calculations to check the string tension versus that produced by nylon strings using a 12 to 14 pound rule for minimum audibile tone. I find that I'm close to 12 pounds with my present string tension and scale, and fingerpicking won't produce enough volume with the phosphor bronze wound and plain steel treble strings now on the instrument (with a re-entrant C string as the 4th). One might do better with some calouses to play these narrow diameter, metal strings fingerstyle with any volume. (I can get "okay" volume, but I have to pluck with more effort.) I took the plastic plectrum from my wallet and realized a massive improvement in volume with the metal strings. The plastic plectrum detracts from the tone of the Nylgut (nylon) strings, which sound better played fingerstyle (using the slack key thumb and forefinger approach I use with my ukuele).
I'm inclined to conclude that my designs work best with Nylgut if played fingerstyle, but enjoy much greater volume with phosphor bronze strings and a plectrum. This seems to not be inconsistent with some of the preceding statements, so perhaps what I've built aren't that far from the norm.
(I'm still learning how to play these things, so most of what I attempt is spur of the moment, improvised mood music, and I don't try to add the bass line while playing melody that slack key would require when I play a 4 string instrument with mandola tuning (particularly not with the metal strung instrument, as it has narrower string spacing than the others). Using a plectrum seems to require that I build up some tiny muscle in the base of my thumb, although I'm holding the plectrum so that only the tip extends beyond my fingers to reduce the necessary force to hold it. Is there a right way to hold a plectrum???)
Mandolin Plucking vs. Picking
Re: Mandolin Plucking vs. Picking
I do a three -finger grope
for accompaniment. Mandolin action is a bit small to finkerpick melody stuff. Mostly I pick if I want speed or volume
# Posted on February 22nd 2006 by Owell Mabee
Re: Mandolin Plucking vs. Picking
Oh dear,
Still "finkerpick" is a better name than "butterfipple"
# Posted on February 22nd 2006 by Owell Mabee
Re: Mandolin Plucking vs. Picking
I'd be curious to see someone fingerpicking a tune at session speed, but I do know an octave-mandola player who often fingerpicks on it for song accompaniment, so why not on the mandolin ?
These days people are less hung-up about rules for the correct way to play instruments.
# Posted on February 22nd 2006 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Mandolin Plucking vs. Picking
It is mandatory to get the best sound you can out of your instrument. Personally, although I may occasionally strum with my fingers, or play arpeggiated chords fingerstyle, I have never managed to get a strong enough tone using my fingers to play tunes - neither could I achieve the speed for jigs, reels etc.. I did once stumble across a fingerpicking mandolin arrangement of a ragtime tune in an old issue of some guitar and mandolin journal -but ragtime's a different jar of elephants, and is generally played solo, without the need to compete for volume with other instruments.
Monkey - You may find it easier fingerpicking tunes at home, but if you want to be heard, or even to hear yourself, above the fiddles, boxes and general rhubarb, I think you will find a plectrum useful - and all it takes is a bit of practice. I see from your profile that you already have a repertoire of tunes on the fiddle, so your LH already knows what to do.
Ultimately it is the result that counts, not how you achieve it. So, if you become the first All-Ireland champion on fingerpicking mandolin, I will take my hat off to you and stand most humbly corrected.
# Posted on February 22nd 2006 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Mandolin Plucking vs. Picking
...or perhaps somebody has already done it.
# Posted on February 22nd 2006 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Mandolin Plucking vs. Picking
Californian Kenny Hall, now in his 80s, has always finger-picked his mandolin. Plays the Neopolitan sort, squeezing the bowl into the folds of his belly, holding it upright, and relying on mighty thick nails to get out an incredible sound. He is a mainstay in West Coast traditional music, with an enormous repertoire and a 78 collection that he started in the 30s that includes lots of Celtic, as well as Mexican, Portugese, old-timey, rag-time and more. I don't think his recordings have been reissued on CD, but the LPs are treasures, featuring tunes he got from John Kimmel, and Philadelphia's Four Provinces before WWII.
mglass
# Posted on February 22nd 2006 by mglass
Re: Mandolin Plucking vs. Picking
Interesting stuff mglass:
http://kennyhallband.com/home.html
&
http://www.goldenoldtimemusic.com/KennyHall.htm
&
http://www.lineonline.org/kenny.html
# Posted on February 22nd 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: Mandolin Plucking vs. Picking
Tha Andean charango is sort of similar to the mandolin and charango players use their fingers to play, but that instrument is voiced and strung for it.
I’ve flirted with fingerpicking on the mando, but the string spacing is too tight for me and it’s hard to push a lot of sound out of it. One thing that’s pretty cool, though, is playing tremelo supported by thumb arpeggios. If you’re familiar with classical guitar music, I’m talking about something in the style of Recuerdos de la Alhambra. It’s cool, but really just a one-shot novelty. But, then, aren’t we all?
# Posted on February 22nd 2006 by Bob himself
Re: Mandolin Plucking vs. Picking
The Portugese guitarra [more mandola than guitar] is played with the fingers. They sometimes use a special pick attached to the end of the index finger for tremelo.It is held on with a bit of elastic and sits under the nail. It can be used on both the up and down stroke.
Balalaika is also played without a plectrum mostly with just the index finger.
I cant imagine getting enough volume finger picking a mandolin at a session.Its hard enough being heard at the best of times.
# Posted on February 22nd 2006 by McMandolin
Re: Mandolin Plucking vs. Picking
I saw one of these little beauties once:
http://www.fernandezmusic.com/PortugueseGuitarMethod.html
I agree McMandolin, I think the lack of volume, when picking, would be the drawback.
# Posted on February 22nd 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: Mandolin Plucking vs. Picking
I've got one under the bed.
# Posted on February 22nd 2006 by McMandolin
Re: Mandolin Plucking vs. Picking
Lucky you McMandolin. Have you played ITM on it? How many strings does your one have?
When was the last time you looked under your bed?
I hope you don't have one of these under your bed:
http://www.causewaymusic.co.uk/ghost.html
Sleep well tonight!
# Posted on February 22nd 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: Mandolin Plucking vs. Picking
Check out folkofthewood.com for the video samples of mandolin fingerpicking.
# Posted on February 22nd 2006 by griffith
Re: Mandolin Plucking vs. Picking
I hope you don't have one of these under your bed:
http://www.causewaymusic.co.uk/ghost.html
Kinda puts a whole new slant on the phrase "horrorshow groodies", don't it.
# Posted on February 23rd 2006 by Owell Mabee
Re: Mandolin Plucking vs. Picking
OOPs forgot these " " on the top bit.
# Posted on February 23rd 2006 by Owell Mabee
Re: Mandolin Plucking vs. Picking
For some mean finger picking on a mandolin, check out Ry Cooder's "Billy the Kid" on "Into The Purple Valley" recording. Sure, it's not ITM, but it's damn good.
Avi
# Posted on February 23rd 2006 by improziv
Re: Mandolin Plucking vs. Picking
I just attended a workshop with Radim Zenkl, the former US national mandolin champion, who is originally from Yugoslavia. He played a tune that he wrote, fingerpicking it on a custom 4-string mandola. He played wicked fast, easily fast enough for ITM.
Also, Mickey Cochran, the owner of the Folk of the Wood online music store (this is not a recommendation of that store, BTW, but that is a whole other story) is a very accomplished mandolin fingerpicker and has videos of him doing it on his site. He does reels and hornpipes, full speed, and it sounds great.
# Posted on February 27th 2006 by Mando Johnny
Re: Mandolin Plucking vs. Picking
I mounted Aquila's Nylgut 4 string set to tune a ukulele like a mandola on an instrument I built. For fingerpicking solo or song accompaniment (or with pick-up or microphone) the volume is fine. I decided to try metal strings (for the first time) on one of my instruments after performing some calculations to check the string tension versus that produced by nylon strings using a 12 to 14 pound rule for minimum audibile tone. I find that I'm close to 12 pounds with my present string tension and scale, and fingerpicking won't produce enough volume with the phosphor bronze wound and plain steel treble strings now on the instrument (with a re-entrant C string as the 4th). One might do better with some calouses to play these narrow diameter, metal strings fingerstyle with any volume. (I can get "okay" volume, but I have to pluck with more effort.) I took the plastic plectrum from my wallet and realized a massive improvement in volume with the metal strings. The plastic plectrum detracts from the tone of the Nylgut (nylon) strings, which sound better played fingerstyle (using the slack key thumb and forefinger approach I use with my ukuele).
I'm inclined to conclude that my designs work best with Nylgut if played fingerstyle, but enjoy much greater volume with phosphor bronze strings and a plectrum. This seems to not be inconsistent with some of the preceding statements, so perhaps what I've built aren't that far from the norm.
(I'm still learning how to play these things, so most of what I attempt is spur of the moment, improvised mood music, and I don't try to add the bass line while playing melody that slack key would require when I play a 4 string instrument with mandola tuning (particularly not with the metal strung instrument, as it has narrower string spacing than the others). Using a plectrum seems to require that I build up some tiny muscle in the base of my thumb, although I'm holding the plectrum so that only the tip extends beyond my fingers to reduce the necessary force to hold it. Is there a right way to hold a plectrum???)
# Posted on February 25th 2009 by Arthur Nordstrom