metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
I play whistle at sessions and am gradually improving my skills through lessons and practice between sessions. I like the whistle because of its portability, and recently was given a Burke as a Christmas gift (which I love).
I play flute (keyed, metal, the kind you find in traditional orchestras) with my non-Celtic music group; it's my main instrument, and I've been playing it for years. Then I was hit by a very bad case of tendinitis several years back...couldn't even hold a glass of water. Things gradually improved but I was going nuts, not being to play my flute or keyboard or guitar or harp...I found that whistle was the only thing I could play, just barely. My tendinitis has improved enough for me to start playing the other instruments again, but I'm hooked on the whistle now as well.
Anyway, I've recently started lusting after the Irish flutes I see/hear in sessions. They have a lovely tone, mellower than metal flutes. One of the people in my session kindly let me try hers, but I found the holes spacing too difficult for me & my tendinitis to handle. Same reason I can't play low whistles.
Two questions:
Am I correct in assuming that metal flutes are usually frowned upon at sessions?
Are there any types of Irish flutes with holes closer together? Perhaps keyed?
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
Typically metal flutes are a tip off that you're a classical player trying to play Irish music, but if you're able to play like Joanie Madden or the handful of other established IT flutists that play a metal flute, then it doesn't much matter what you play. Good is good.
I'm inclined to say that you can find something to fit your hands in the Irish flute category, but somebody else can hopefully give you some more specific advice there.
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
I think there is some prejudice against metal flutes, but it would mostly come from expecting that the person playing them was someone toying with the music who had no real idea what he was doing. Show them that you can play good sounding Irish music on it and you should have no problem.
Doubly so in Toronto, I'd think -- my impression is they are pretty open-minded there. (And actually, the good traditional metal-flute players I've met have all been from Ontario, I think.)
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
The answer to your question depends on where you are. The Irish do not like silver flutes but in parts of the US they are more accepted. I get away with it because I have played pro for 23 years and am able to emulate the more mellow tones of wood.and I have a very good solid silver gold lined flute. I can play simple system. I just don't like it. People ask me to put up the fiddle and get out the flute. Our group has 6 fiddles and one whistle (a loud obnoxious one) so they are happy to have me play. I gave my daughter a bohem system blackwood when she graduated conservatory. They can be had but the cost is dear.
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
Jehanna, I heard a woman playing a blackwood Boehm flute a few years ago . It sounded great. I hope your daughter enjoys it.
I'm surprised that they are not more popular.
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
"The Irish dont like metal flutes" - where did you get that one from?
Only thing that matters is the music - our own Sharontheflute plays a metal boehm system and is, frankly, brilliant.
Many moons ago Tom Ginley in Belfast played a classical flute and I can assure you that his flute and his music were very well liked.
You should try out a few simple system flutes - and if you know a good maker they can tailor the spacing of the holes to suit your hand. Good luck with it
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
hi debbie.
i play silver flute too. i played classical music for about 6 years, but now i'm a convert. no-one at the sessions i've been to has 'frowned upon' my flute. luckily, i have an old wooden flute i'm going to get fixed, but if it weren't for that, i wouldn't be able to afford a wooden flute. i agree with sol - sessions are about the music. its your playing that counts.
sam
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
I know a metal Flute player who comes to my session, but we are a friendly buch and have had both Metal Flutes and Piano Accordions on the same night with 28 other players, it was huge. Chances are you would just get a couple dirty looks and no one would say anything. Of course if you want to get a wooden Flute to try the Casey Burns Folk Flute is only $250 and is made to be comfortable. Of course a Wooden Bohem Flute has a good tone, but there are way cheaper Irish Fltues you could buy.
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
If you're looking for flute with small finger spacings, generally a Pratten-style flute will be what you're looking for (I think). Try to find a wooden flute maker somewhere near you, they'll know the most about it, and may be able to make you something suitable.
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
You could also try out the Hammy Hamilton practice flute. It's made of aluminium, and while it is designed to have the same finger-spacings as a wooden flute, it is quite easy to play. And it's only 70 Euros. http://homepage.tinet.ie/~hammie/practice.htm
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
Ditto on the Casey Burns Folk Flute -- you can get what I think he calls the "ergonomic" model that has closer hole spacing. Nice sound for a good price (I like mine, though we're still in the "getting acquainted" phase).
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
I sometimes play w/ a 'concert' flute player that also tries to play the pennywhistle. I cringe at the sound of a poorly played whistle (or the other primitive flutey things). Please play your flute until you actually learn the new instrument!
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
I don't think it's the boehm system, as such, that is the problem. Or even that it's made of metal rarther than wood. Ther bigest problem, technically, is the keys. When you play rolls and crans and cuts, etc, it's the pop you get via the imediacy of having your finger right on top of a hole. And it's also being able to roll your fingers off and on to the holes, there by bending up and down to notes.
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
imho - Rudall & Rose model flutes are easier on the fingers than Pratten's - holes are smaller, not quite as widely spaced. Tone is sweeter, although less volume is available. Depending on the player, natch.
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
A Boehm flute player myself, I recently got a Tony Dixon three-piece keyless flute and I'm very pleased with it. Its holes are nicely spaced for me, but I have large hands. It looks like Casey Burns' flutes are specifically designed for people with small hands, please see http://www.caseyburnsflutes.com/ergo.php
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
Hi Debbie
I've seen metal flutes with holes in the keys. http://www.allflutesplus.co.uk/
I'm not sure how effective sliding would be on them.
There is an excellent metal flute player here at the Manchester sessions and she gets no grief from the Irish guys we play with, so don't worry about that; it's the music that counts not the instrument.
Metal flutes have limitations but there are other "traditional" instruments such as the melodeon in which sliding is not possible.
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
In the US, you might get teased/slagged initially, but if you show that you know and love the music, and can play it on the silver flute, you will be accepted. Since the folks you play whistle with already know you, I think they would be pretty accepting.
I play with a silver flautist in a group I am in, and she does pretty well playing The Music, although I have to admit, you can hear hints of the classical training in her approach (then again, you can still hear the American folk/country influences in my guitar playing). She plays it because she already has a good bit of experience on that instrument, and she has very small and slender fingers, and has always had difficulties with simple system flutes.
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
You could get the ultimate in hybrids and get a "Radcliffe system" flute:
Cylindrical bore
Wood
Keyed. . . BUT - set up much more like a simple system flute than a Boehm.
Paddy Carty played one, and he is a God, so I doubt you'd get any sneers from anybody with a clue. SOmebody still makes these but I forget who.
A wooden "normal" Boehm runs on the order of $10 grand USD. COnsidering you could get two or three fully keyed high-end "Irish" flutes for that, they aren't cheap.
Once again, it's the player more than the instrument that matters.
metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
I play whistle at sessions and am gradually improving my skills through lessons and practice between sessions. I like the whistle because of its portability, and recently was given a Burke as a Christmas gift (which I love).
I play flute (keyed, metal, the kind you find in traditional orchestras) with my non-Celtic music group; it's my main instrument, and I've been playing it for years. Then I was hit by a very bad case of tendinitis several years back...couldn't even hold a glass of water. Things gradually improved but I was going nuts, not being to play my flute or keyboard or guitar or harp...I found that whistle was the only thing I could play, just barely. My tendinitis has improved enough for me to start playing the other instruments again, but I'm hooked on the whistle now as well.
Anyway, I've recently started lusting after the Irish flutes I see/hear in sessions. They have a lovely tone, mellower than metal flutes. One of the people in my session kindly let me try hers, but I found the holes spacing too difficult for me & my tendinitis to handle. Same reason I can't play low whistles.
Two questions:
Am I correct in assuming that metal flutes are usually frowned upon at sessions?
Are there any types of Irish flutes with holes closer together? Perhaps keyed?
Suggestions appreciated!
Debbie
# Posted on January 29th 2006 by Inkygirl
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
Typically metal flutes are a tip off that you're a classical player trying to play Irish music, but if you're able to play like Joanie Madden or the handful of other established IT flutists that play a metal flute, then it doesn't much matter what you play. Good is good.
I'm inclined to say that you can find something to fit your hands in the Irish flute category, but somebody else can hopefully give you some more specific advice there.
# Posted on January 29th 2006 by Jason G
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
I think there is some prejudice against metal flutes, but it would mostly come from expecting that the person playing them was someone toying with the music who had no real idea what he was doing. Show them that you can play good sounding Irish music on it and you should have no problem.
Doubly so in Toronto, I'd think -- my impression is they are pretty open-minded there. (And actually, the good traditional metal-flute players I've met have all been from Ontario, I think.)
# Posted on January 29th 2006 by Sol Foster
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
The answer to your question depends on where you are. The Irish do not like silver flutes but in parts of the US they are more accepted. I get away with it because I have played pro for 23 years and am able to emulate the more mellow tones of wood.and I have a very good solid silver gold lined flute. I can play simple system. I just don't like it. People ask me to put up the fiddle and get out the flute. Our group has 6 fiddles and one whistle (a loud obnoxious one) so they are happy to have me play. I gave my daughter a bohem system blackwood when she graduated conservatory. They can be had but the cost is dear.
# Posted on January 29th 2006 by mother
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
Jehanna, I heard a woman playing a blackwood Boehm flute a few years ago . It sounded great. I hope your daughter enjoys it.
I'm surprised that they are not more popular.
# Posted on January 29th 2006 by McMandolin
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
"The Irish dont like metal flutes" - where did you get that one from?
Only thing that matters is the music - our own Sharontheflute plays a metal boehm system and is, frankly, brilliant.
Many moons ago Tom Ginley in Belfast played a classical flute and I can assure you that his flute and his music were very well liked.
You should try out a few simple system flutes - and if you know a good maker they can tailor the spacing of the holes to suit your hand. Good luck with it
# Posted on January 29th 2006 by breandan
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
I think Dr. Danny MacKay here plays wooden Boehm flute.
# Posted on January 29th 2006 by slainte
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
Sorry, that was poorly stated. Some Irish musicians do not consider the silver flute acceptable in traditional Irish music. I stand corrected.
# Posted on January 29th 2006 by mother
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
I had trouble with the spacing on wooden flutes until a teacher showed me better hand positioning. Flexing the wrists helped a lot.
# Posted on January 29th 2006 by lindag
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
hi debbie.
i play silver flute too. i played classical music for about 6 years, but now i'm a convert. no-one at the sessions i've been to has 'frowned upon' my flute. luckily, i have an old wooden flute i'm going to get fixed, but if it weren't for that, i wouldn't be able to afford a wooden flute. i agree with sol - sessions are about the music. its your playing that counts.
sam
# Posted on January 29th 2006 by flisstle
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
I know a metal Flute player who comes to my session, but we are a friendly buch and have had both Metal Flutes and Piano Accordions on the same night with 28 other players, it was huge. Chances are you would just get a couple dirty looks and no one would say anything. Of course if you want to get a wooden Flute to try the Casey Burns Folk Flute is only $250 and is made to be comfortable. Of course a Wooden Bohem Flute has a good tone, but there are way cheaper Irish Fltues you could buy.
# Posted on January 29th 2006 by Why Bother?
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
If you're looking for flute with small finger spacings, generally a Pratten-style flute will be what you're looking for (I think). Try to find a wooden flute maker somewhere near you, they'll know the most about it, and may be able to make you something suitable.
# Posted on January 29th 2006 by kjay_bc_box
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
You could also try out the Hammy Hamilton practice flute. It's made of aluminium, and while it is designed to have the same finger-spacings as a wooden flute, it is quite easy to play. And it's only 70 Euros.
http://homepage.tinet.ie/~hammie/practice.htm
# Posted on January 29th 2006 by kjay_bc_box
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
Ditto on the Casey Burns Folk Flute -- you can get what I think he calls the "ergonomic" model that has closer hole spacing. Nice sound for a good price (I like mine, though we're still in the "getting acquainted" phase).
# Posted on January 29th 2006 by Char B
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
I sometimes play w/ a 'concert' flute player that also tries to play the pennywhistle. I cringe at the sound of a poorly played whistle (or the other primitive flutey things). Please play your flute until you actually learn the new instrument!
# Posted on January 30th 2006 by Moylan
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
I don't think it's the boehm system, as such, that is the problem. Or even that it's made of metal rarther than wood. Ther bigest problem, technically, is the keys. When you play rolls and crans and cuts, etc, it's the pop you get via the imediacy of having your finger right on top of a hole. And it's also being able to roll your fingers off and on to the holes, there by bending up and down to notes.
# Posted on January 30th 2006 by llig leahcim
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
imho - Rudall & Rose model flutes are easier on the fingers than Pratten's - holes are smaller, not quite as widely spaced. Tone is sweeter, although less volume is available. Depending on the player, natch.
# Posted on January 30th 2006 by Q
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
kjay you have it backwards, Prattens are harder to play. I have found that the embochure cut makes a bigger difference than bore size.
# Posted on January 30th 2006 by Why Bother?
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
Oops, sorry, I thought Pratten's were easier but sounded worse...
Well I still think they sound worse.
# Posted on January 30th 2006 by kjay_bc_box
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
What about the hall flutes in D??? They are made of glass and are supposed to have about the same fingerings as a tin whistle. Would it work???
# Posted on January 30th 2006 by wind whisperer
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
Have you considered using a wooden head on the silver flute? I understand that many classical players do this now to get the warmer tones.
# Posted on January 30th 2006 by Paul_draper
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
A Boehm flute player myself, I recently got a Tony Dixon three-piece keyless flute and I'm very pleased with it. Its holes are nicely spaced for me, but I have large hands. It looks like Casey Burns' flutes are specifically designed for people with small hands, please see http://www.caseyburnsflutes.com/ergo.php
Good luck - and keep playing the whistle, too!
# Posted on January 30th 2006 by Guidus
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
Hi Debbie
I've seen metal flutes with holes in the keys.
http://www.allflutesplus.co.uk/
I'm not sure how effective sliding would be on them.
There is an excellent metal flute player here at the Manchester sessions and she gets no grief from the Irish guys we play with, so don't worry about that; it's the music that counts not the instrument.
Metal flutes have limitations but there are other "traditional" instruments such as the melodeon in which sliding is not possible.
PP
# Posted on January 30th 2006 by Pied Piper
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
In the US, you might get teased/slagged initially, but if you show that you know and love the music, and can play it on the silver flute, you will be accepted. Since the folks you play whistle with already know you, I think they would be pretty accepting.
I play with a silver flautist in a group I am in, and she does pretty well playing The Music, although I have to admit, you can hear hints of the classical training in her approach (then again, you can still hear the American folk/country influences in my guitar playing). She plays it because she already has a good bit of experience on that instrument, and she has very small and slender fingers, and has always had difficulties with simple system flutes.
# Posted on January 30th 2006 by AlBrown
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
Thanks SO MUCH for all this useful advice, info and links.
Now I'm lusting specifically after a Casey Burns' flute for small hands, though I'll need to save up for a while first.
Meanwhile, I'll also practice tunes on my metal flute to see how it goes before I try it in a session. Maybe I'll have bought my Casey Burns by then!
Thanks again.
Debbie
# Posted on January 30th 2006 by Inkygirl
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
If anyone's interested, I've also found a thread called "looking for a keyed flute for small hands" over on Chiff & Fipple at:
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=36113
Debbie
# Posted on January 31st 2006 by Inkygirl
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
By the way Casey has a 6 month waiting list, his Folk Flutes are available with no wait.
# Posted on January 31st 2006 by Why Bother?
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
You could get the ultimate in hybrids and get a "Radcliffe system" flute:
Cylindrical bore
Wood
Keyed. . . BUT - set up much more like a simple system flute than a Boehm.
Paddy Carty played one, and he is a God, so I doubt you'd get any sneers from anybody with a clue. SOmebody still makes these but I forget who.
A wooden "normal" Boehm runs on the order of $10 grand USD. COnsidering you could get two or three fully keyed high-end "Irish" flutes for that, they aren't cheap.
Once again, it's the player more than the instrument that matters.
# Posted on January 31st 2006 by wormdiet
Re: metal flutes with wooden heads?
windwhisperer made reference to "using a wooden head on the silver flute" --
Where would I find one, any ideas?
-steve
# Posted on February 19th 2006 by spkemp
Re: metal flutes in sessions? or alternate Irish flutes?
Several sites online to browse (search Google with "wooden headjoints"):
http://www.woodenflutemaker.com/
http://www.epplerflutes.com/headjoints.html
http://www.jnovoheadjoints.com/
etc.
I have one from Juan Novo, and absolutely love it.
# Posted on February 19th 2006 by Char B