Other than stopping and starting over, does anyone out there have any suggestions for slowing down a tune or set that has sped up too much.I know one could always talk to the worst offenders but has anyone developed musical air breaks to get a tune back to tempo while it is being played.
That's really the only way, thump yer foot loudly and send out the daggers. But then unless you are the session leader, it could come accros the wrong way. It also depends on the ratio of "culprits" to "go with the flow-ers". Too many who just gow with the flow, and you don't stand a chance. I know this doesn't answer the question, but stopping and starting over really is the best way.
I do something musically to get their attention, e.g., accent a note or phrase pointedly and bang my foot a little louder.
I'm not above an icy stare. I've never been driven quite to Conan's lengths, but I did move to the other side of the table once when a well-known troublemaker harmonized to the point of taking off on a completely different tune. I have to drive about an hour to get to this particular session, and it was just not fun sitting next to her. She is infamous for not getting such messages; I don't think she did this time, either. It probably seemed worse than usual because there were less players than this session usually had.
Difficult!! At a session I go to one fellow ALWAYS says at the end of a set "That was too fast" His main compadre ALWAYS answers "That's how they play it on the CD"
Our session lady is from Kerry and she speaks this way, "tog é go bog é". [take it softly].
And she means slowly "go mall" and it's clear in Irish what's meant.
I questioned a very good session player how he coped with this.His answer was " leave him off ".If they kept it up go to the Bar to let them cool off.If they persisted have a word in there ear and after that if they do the same at the next session just dont play with them.Its great to lash out the tunes but a lot of tunes are flogged to death by speed.
When I’ve been a host and this problem arises I've approached this problem by suggesting at the next lull between tunes that we should maintain and follow the speed established by the person who starts the set of tunes. Then I would ask the speedomaniac to start a set... follow him, and then ask others to suggest and start tunes. When they do, we follow them. If the speedomaniac speeds up the tempo again, then you can take issue with it by pointing out that we followed his pace when he started the set, so he should do the same for others. If he persists you can directly ask them to cease and desist or leave the session.
If there’s no session host I think the suggestion can still be made, but of course there would be no enforcement to back it up if the person continues doing this. At that point having a pint at the bar and chatting with friends would be an attractive option.
I like Steve's idea. Of course, if you have a bodhran, it is pointless to tap ones foot louder. I have never noticed this (in Reels or Jigs), either becuase I am the one speeding up, or because I always end up right next to the Bodhrans (yes ther eis more than one) and am in time with them. Of course what really annoys me is when they speed up Hornpipes, and yes some people do it.
Yea its the hornpipes that finally got to me. Some can stand a bit of speed but it's death to others.
I wonder if starting with trickier tunes [hard to play fast] and bring in the old favorites after the tempo has been established might keep things civil. If not ,the heavy boot is propably the best answer. I'll keep it on the floor though and not on the offenders backsides.
I hate that so much. It is not that I can't play them fast, but it is that it ruins the spirit of the tune. A Hornpipe is supposed to be "bouncy" not a reel with a slight swing. I also don't like when people play them straight instead of swung. Of course if you really wanted to p*ss people of ask the bodhran player if you could play for a second and then tap out the beat really loudly, has more carrying power than a shoe.
Has anyone ever played at a session where they dragged or slowed down involentarily?
I've noticed in other music especially when playing from charts,but never at a session.
I have some albums by the Bothy Band, but when I started playing the tunes I realised it was nicer when you played them slowly enough to hear all the notes. Or even for me to reach all the notes. THAT's why you shouldn't play them at the same speed as the album.
I liked the idea of getting the speed merchant to lead a set, and then....
You could also just stop playing when it got too fast, even pass the word around the session, so that speed merchant would end up playing on their own each time. Mind you though, some people never notice.
One session we visited in the US a couple of years ago, we noticed that the leading musician used to pick up other peoples' tunes and then speed them up to what he was comfortable with, and our hosts excused him saying that he was going deaf, and wasn't picking up the musical cues so well anymore.
For some reason, Battle of Aughrim crops up once per session in one of the venues locally. Every single time, it's played at absolute *dirge* tempo, which absolutely kills it. Gives me Leo Rowsome's version any day.
I have racked up a fair number of speeding tickets in my time :( After one session the leader pretty much told me so straight on. This is only in tunes I lead, though, generally speaking. Yes, I am in a 12-step program. I've sworn off of Matt Molloy as a New Year's resolution. Although every time I hear the Kesh, the rest of that set wants to come out at Mattspeed.
Seems like there is a proper speed for every tune-a few need to move quickly,others are ruined when played at warp speed,so where's the musicianship in that.MH can get more out of one note than many can get out of ten.
I've been to four sessions locally here in Massachusetts in the ten days since returning from a two week trip to Clare, where I went to 11 sessions and one concert (Kitty Hayes' and Peter Laban's CD launch). Mostly the tempos in Clare were moderate and under control. There were a handful of times when reels got close to 120 bpm, but they were few and far between.
There was one session - an impromptu affair in a tiny rural pub - where a well-respected older fiddler (who has a hornpipe in the database here named after him) would speed up tunes started by the other players to the point where they couldn't keep up. I don't think he was doing it intentional, and probably didn't realize it, but it was hard on the other players.
At two of the sessions here in Massachusetts, the leader loves to show off, and plays a bunch of tunes each night at absurd speeds. I clocked him at about 150 bpm on one set of reels. The only recordings I've ever heard that are in that range are by Sean Maguire. There were a handful of reel sets that must have been in the vicinity of 130 bpm. Still, he also started some sets at tempos that his students could keep up with, and when he called on people to start some sets, he'd either play at their tempo or go to the bar or toilet.
Another local session is led by two players American-born players who learned from their Irish-born parents. They are very good at keeping the tempo solid, but it's usually noticeably faster than most of what I heard in Clare. It was definitely a workout for me, and hard to keep up, but it probably never got much above 120 for reels.
There was one interesting session in Ennis that I went to twice. It was led by a fine box player named Sean, whose last name I don't know. (Anybody know him? Sundays at the Old Ground.) The first week he was joined by a lovely fiddle player - Anne Marie Vaughan. The second week by the great concertina player Dympna O'Sullivan. Tempos were much slower the second week. The first week they were brisk, but not super fast; the second week they were leisurely.
If I had a point to make when I started writing, I've forgotten it by now, so I think I'll shut up.
i started a set in the pub at a nice steady pace when another feckin fiddle player, playing like a robot, decided to speed it up as if theres no tomorrow. feck i had to leave.
speed bumps
speed bumps
Other than stopping and starting over, does anyone out there have any suggestions for slowing down a tune or set that has sped up too much.I know one could always talk to the worst offenders but has anyone developed musical air breaks to get a tune back to tempo while it is being played.
# Posted on January 27th 2006 by McMandolin
Re: speed bumps
Try thumpin yer foot loudly and send some eye daggers at the culprit.
# Posted on January 27th 2006 by breandan
Re: speed bumps
Say "tog é go bog é" nicely, (" slow down" in Irish). Not easy if you play a wind instrument though.
Don't speed up yourself.
# Posted on January 27th 2006 by flauta dolce
Re: speed bumps
That's really the only way, thump yer foot loudly and send out the daggers. But then unless you are the session leader, it could come accros the wrong way. It also depends on the ratio of "culprits" to "go with the flow-ers". Too many who just gow with the flow, and you don't stand a chance. I know this doesn't answer the question, but stopping and starting over really is the best way.
# Posted on January 27th 2006 by llig leahcim
Re: speed bumps
I once had a go at one particular person with the words: "will you (insert expletive) slow down!" Seemed to do the trick.
# Posted on January 27th 2006 by Conán McDonnell
Re: speed bumps
If you play something louder than a mandolin you can have enough oomph to do it with your instrument.
Otherwise you might have to do it like that nasty brutish rough tongued Conan McDonnell.
# Posted on January 27th 2006 by showaddydadito
Re: speed bumps
bog = soft not slow.
Moilligh means slow down root word is go mall = slow/
In Ulster you would say 'seinn níos fadálaigh' from the root fadálach meaning slowly.
# Posted on January 27th 2006 by breandan
Re: speed bumps
Dave , I'm only an oul' hallion when I need to be.
I am otherwise a paragon of decorum.
# Posted on January 27th 2006 by Conán McDonnell
Re: speed bumps
I do something musically to get their attention, e.g., accent a note or phrase pointedly and bang my foot a little louder.
I'm not above an icy stare. I've never been driven quite to Conan's lengths, but I did move to the other side of the table once when a well-known troublemaker harmonized to the point of taking off on a completely different tune. I have to drive about an hour to get to this particular session, and it was just not fun sitting next to her. She is infamous for not getting such messages; I don't think she did this time, either. It probably seemed worse than usual because there were less players than this session usually had.
# Posted on January 27th 2006 by cathrynb
Re: speed bumps
Difficult!! At a session I go to one fellow ALWAYS says at the end of a set "That was too fast" His main compadre ALWAYS answers "That's how they play it on the CD"
# Posted on January 27th 2006 by octopus
Re: tog é go bog é
Cheers Breadan, I know. ☺
Our session lady is from Kerry and she speaks this way, "tog é go bog é". [take it softly].
And she means slowly "go mall" and it's clear in Irish what's meant.
# Posted on January 27th 2006 by flauta dolce
Re: tog é go bog é
How do you get the smilies?
# Posted on January 27th 2006 by flauta dolce
Re: speed bumps
Well if that's how they play it on the CD... Sad, isn't it?
# Posted on January 27th 2006 by Farr
Re: speed bumps
: ) without the space
Also : 0*o^|&
(Carmen Miranda)
# Posted on January 27th 2006 by Conán McDonnell
Re: speed bumps
I questioned a very good session player how he coped with this.His answer was " leave him off ".If they kept it up go to the Bar to let them cool off.If they persisted have a word in there ear and after that if they do the same at the next session just dont play with them.Its great to lash out the tunes but a lot of tunes are flogged to death by speed.
# Posted on January 27th 2006 by Dphil
Re: speed bumps
"That's how they play it on the CD"
To which the reply should be "When you're as good as they are, then you're allowed to play it that fast!"
Pete
# Posted on January 27th 2006 by Reverend
Re: speed bumps
Keep speeding the tune up ... regarless of how bad you're playing it ... then end a few beats before everyone else, jump up and shout "I win" ...
# Posted on January 27th 2006 by stevebenn
Re: speed bumps
When I’ve been a host and this problem arises I've approached this problem by suggesting at the next lull between tunes that we should maintain and follow the speed established by the person who starts the set of tunes. Then I would ask the speedomaniac to start a set... follow him, and then ask others to suggest and start tunes. When they do, we follow them. If the speedomaniac speeds up the tempo again, then you can take issue with it by pointing out that we followed his pace when he started the set, so he should do the same for others. If he persists you can directly ask them to cease and desist or leave the session.
If there’s no session host I think the suggestion can still be made, but of course there would be no enforcement to back it up if the person continues doing this. At that point having a pint at the bar and chatting with friends would be an attractive option.
# Posted on January 27th 2006 by Phantom Button
Re: speed bumps
I like Steve's idea. Of course, if you have a bodhran, it is pointless to tap ones foot louder. I have never noticed this (in Reels or Jigs), either becuase I am the one speeding up, or because I always end up right next to the Bodhrans (yes ther eis more than one) and am in time with them. Of course what really annoys me is when they speed up Hornpipes, and yes some people do it.
# Posted on January 27th 2006 by Why Bother?
Re: speed bumps
Yea its the hornpipes that finally got to me. Some can stand a bit of speed but it's death to others.
I wonder if starting with trickier tunes [hard to play fast] and bring in the old favorites after the tempo has been established might keep things civil. If not ,the heavy boot is propably the best answer. I'll keep it on the floor though and not on the offenders backsides.
# Posted on January 27th 2006 by McMandolin
Re: speed bumps
I hate that so much. It is not that I can't play them fast, but it is that it ruins the spirit of the tune. A Hornpipe is supposed to be "bouncy" not a reel with a slight swing. I also don't like when people play them straight instead of swung. Of course if you really wanted to p*ss people of ask the bodhran player if you could play for a second and then tap out the beat really loudly, has more carrying power than a shoe.
# Posted on January 27th 2006 by Why Bother?
Re: speed bumps
The hornpipe bouncy vs. straight discussion is 2 doors down.
# Posted on January 27th 2006 by Phantom Button
Re: speed bumps
Has anyone ever played at a session where they dragged or slowed down involentarily?
I've noticed in other music especially when playing from charts,but never at a session.
# Posted on January 28th 2006 by McMandolin
Re: speed bumps
I have some albums by the Bothy Band, but when I started playing the tunes I realised it was nicer when you played them slowly enough to hear all the notes. Or even for me to reach all the notes. THAT's why you shouldn't play them at the same speed as the album.
I liked the idea of getting the speed merchant to lead a set, and then....
You could also just stop playing when it got too fast, even pass the word around the session, so that speed merchant would end up playing on their own each time. Mind you though, some people never notice.
One session we visited in the US a couple of years ago, we noticed that the leading musician used to pick up other peoples' tunes and then speed them up to what he was comfortable with, and our hosts excused him saying that he was going deaf, and wasn't picking up the musical cues so well anymore.
# Posted on January 28th 2006 by Guernsey Pete
Re: speed bumps
For some reason, Battle of Aughrim crops up once per session in one of the venues locally. Every single time, it's played at absolute *dirge* tempo, which absolutely kills it. Gives me Leo Rowsome's version any day.
I have racked up a fair number of speeding tickets in my time :( After one session the leader pretty much told me so straight on. This is only in tunes I lead, though, generally speaking. Yes, I am in a 12-step program. I've sworn off of Matt Molloy as a New Year's resolution. Although every time I hear the Kesh, the rest of that set wants to come out at Mattspeed.
# Posted on January 28th 2006 by wormdiet
Re: speed bumps
Seems like there is a proper speed for every tune-a few need to move quickly,others are ruined when played at warp speed,so where's the musicianship in that.MH can get more out of one note than many can get out of ten.
# Posted on January 28th 2006 by dorian
Re: speed bumps
I've been to four sessions locally here in Massachusetts in the ten days since returning from a two week trip to Clare, where I went to 11 sessions and one concert (Kitty Hayes' and Peter Laban's CD launch). Mostly the tempos in Clare were moderate and under control. There were a handful of times when reels got close to 120 bpm, but they were few and far between.
There was one session - an impromptu affair in a tiny rural pub - where a well-respected older fiddler (who has a hornpipe in the database here named after him) would speed up tunes started by the other players to the point where they couldn't keep up. I don't think he was doing it intentional, and probably didn't realize it, but it was hard on the other players.
At two of the sessions here in Massachusetts, the leader loves to show off, and plays a bunch of tunes each night at absurd speeds. I clocked him at about 150 bpm on one set of reels. The only recordings I've ever heard that are in that range are by Sean Maguire. There were a handful of reel sets that must have been in the vicinity of 130 bpm. Still, he also started some sets at tempos that his students could keep up with, and when he called on people to start some sets, he'd either play at their tempo or go to the bar or toilet.
Another local session is led by two players American-born players who learned from their Irish-born parents. They are very good at keeping the tempo solid, but it's usually noticeably faster than most of what I heard in Clare. It was definitely a workout for me, and hard to keep up, but it probably never got much above 120 for reels.
There was one interesting session in Ennis that I went to twice. It was led by a fine box player named Sean, whose last name I don't know. (Anybody know him? Sundays at the Old Ground.) The first week he was joined by a lovely fiddle player - Anne Marie Vaughan. The second week by the great concertina player Dympna O'Sullivan. Tempos were much slower the second week. The first week they were brisk, but not super fast; the second week they were leisurely.
If I had a point to make when I started writing, I've forgotten it by now, so I think I'll shut up.
# Posted on January 28th 2006 by GaryAMartin
Re: speed bumps
PS I owe you all an "ly" which I left of (un)-"intentionally".
# Posted on January 28th 2006 by GaryAMartin
Re: speed bumps
When your contocadores reach twice the starting tempo, drop back to the original tempo - that way, at least you stay in *time* with them.
# Posted on January 28th 2006 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: speed bumps
Move the key up a tone - if they carry on at the same speed - do it again - if they carry on - they are bloody good musicians - leave them to it.
# Posted on January 31st 2006 by geoffwright
Re: speed bumps
i started a set in the pub at a nice steady pace when another feckin fiddle player, playing like a robot, decided to speed it up as if theres no tomorrow. feck i had to leave.
# Posted on February 17th 2008 by justabloke