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Writing and playing your own tunes

Writing and playing your own tunes

I recently read an online interview with an up and coming, very talented, young Scottish fiddler. She's actually a very nice and sociable person too but I'll not name her here.

However, some of her comments made me feel a little uneasy. This musician stated that she and her other band members now preferred to write their own tunes mainly because it was difficult to find tunes which hadn't been recorded before and composing new ones was much easier and quicker than "looking around" or researching.

Now, she is anything but alone in carrying out this practice. Many young musicians are now writing new tunes and a lot of them are actually very good. However, I'd disagree that there aren't enough older tunes going around. There's plenty of them and you don't even need to go to the length of scouring through old collections. You'll hear them in sessions and from older musicians. They haven't all been recorded either or, of those that have, a lot less than you might think.

Of course, I've no problem with new compositions but I don't want to see tune writing become an "end in itself" something like an instrumental equivalent of the singer songwriter genre. It's great when new tunes and songs(if you're that way inclined) catch on and become part of the tradition but a whole evening or repertoire of these is not what I'd consider to be traditional music.

Of course, there is also the distinction between a performance or session scenario. If a band or musician is recording an album or presenting a concert set, then they can obviously choose whatever material they like. The listener will either enjoy it or not. However, I get concerned when it spills over into the session environment. More frequently these days, I'll come across sessions where these young and admittedly very talented musicians are happy to just play their own tunes all evening. It can be great to listen to but very exclusive and not, in my opinion, what a session should be about.
Any thoughts?

# Posted on January 27th 2006 by John J.

Re: Writing and playing your own tunes

If you are attempting to be a professional in this merge line and are making a commercial recording, definately best to write all you own tunes, for the PRS money. Makes a big difference when you get your 2 mins of fame on the Mike Harding show.

But you'll realise it's just a hobby sooner or later and there'll be plenty of time to learn all the old ones

# Posted on January 27th 2006 by llig leahcim

Re: Writing and playing your own tunes

hi. interesting topic. i can certainly see the point of the young musician because it isn't allways simple depending on where that person is living. you could be in donegal or dublin and have access to wonderful archives but anywhere else i.e. the colorada desert, and things get difficult!

i could back up the young fiddler by saying that back in the day when transport and communication where almost non existant, each village would have had to come up with their own tunes if not versions because unless a travelling musician like J.D. was about, where'd they get new music from?

that's why, in donegal, for example, you get Teelin, kilcar, gaoth dobhair, malin, east donegal, versions of tunes or tunes which are associated witht that region full stop. it's also well known that most of the big players like the cassidys (teelin) dinny mc laughlin (malin) and the dohertys, were composers who's compositions could define a regions style and music.
also, young musicians sometimes feel that they can maybe express themselves better through their own words/notes.

that's only another take on the argument. although i write much of my own for gigs, albums etc.. it's certainly a big loss to leave out the older stuff. i also should let ye all know that the first archive of traditional donegal music has been opened up in kilcar, east donegal, which will open up a wealth of new material from ages ago to us playing today. i have a number if any of ye are interested.

all the best,
martin.

# Posted on January 27th 2006 by martin t

Re: Writing and playing your own tunes

I think the thing that gets me most about it is there are very few new tunesmiths out there who have written 30 minutes worth of tunes which can stand up with the good old stuff. Actually, the only ones out there that come to my mind are Liz Carroll and Brian Pickell. And even with them, I think playing stuff they didn't write is a nice way to provide needed variety in a set.

I think it was Goderich 2004 where several of us managed to wander into a session with a bunch of hot young players -- all clearly better than me -- who played a number of tunes which they or "friends back home" had written. Some of those tunes were just lousy. It was a nice boost to my own ego as a budding tunesmith -- I knew some of mine were better -- but it was also really weird to hear very talented musicians making crappy music.

# Posted on January 27th 2006 by Sol Foster

Re: Writing and playing your own tunes

I'm all for new tunes being written & gradually (I stress gradually) introduced into sessions - the bad tunes will go by natural selection - people simply won't play them.
That's also a good point made by Michael with respect to PRS - more dosh to the composers.
With regards to lots of these tunes being played all night in sessions - I personally don't think that's a good thing at all. However, If a bunch of young musicians were to get together to have a session by themselves to play all their own tunes - why not let them do so? No-one else will likely join in - indeed, they may not want anyone else to join in - just leave them to it, and find a more sociable session to play in.

# Posted on January 27th 2006 by Ron P

Re: Writing and playing your own tunes

It seems to me that Scotland has been producing a much greater number of fine composers than Ireland, and so it's more open to new compositions. Of course, there have been prolific great composers in Ireand or the States, such as Reavy, Fahy, O'Brien, Lennon, etc, but the musicians who mainly play Irish music generally tend to stick to traditional tunes both in sessions and recordings. In Scotland, I believe, we're more likely to come across modern compositions more often. For example, many of pipe tunes played in sessions aren't traditional, are they?

But, Cape Breton fiddlers are IMO even more prolific . They keep composing tons of new tunes and play them with old traditional tunes in the lengthy sets!

# Posted on January 27th 2006 by slainte

Re: Writing and playing your own tunes

Opinion from a relative newcomer to sessions...

While it's great to hear a new tune written by someone at the session sometimes, I got hooked on sessions because of the "everybody join in" aspect in addition to the wonderful tunes, so would be disappointed if my regular session turned into one where everyone played their own tunes ALL evening.

But perhaps this is the start of a different type of "session" evolving in addition to the traditional session? I'd be happy to go to either, as long as I knew ahead of time what type to expect.

Debbie

# Posted on January 27th 2006 by Inkygirl

Re: Writing and playing your own tunes

All too often, listening to newly composed tunes is like trying to find a comfortable chair in a students' design exhibition. They tend to have a contrived, spiky, feel that is easy to recognise. Once in a while there's a good one. It's very interesting to hear composing described as an easy option.

# Posted on January 27th 2006 by TomB-R

Re: Writing and playing your own tunes

I have no problem with people making up their own tunes. I've heard some beauties over the years and the composers mentioned above have contributed very nicely to the body of tunes in the genre. But sometimes I'll hear tunes that just sound like other tunes except the notes are rearranged a bit. Case in point, ‘Are You Ready Yet,’ a nice tune written by Tom Doorley of Danu, but very close in many ways to ‘Major Harrison's Fedora.’ I play Doorley's tune because people who frequent sessions I go to play it, but I sometimes wish they had learned the tune Doorley seemed to be channeling instead. My concern is that new tunes that are very similar to existing tunes (after being recorded and becoming popular) will push the existing tunes off the map.

Having said that, there are new tunes being written that are very unique and should be welcome into the genre. At sessions I enjoy it when new tunes are introduced, but if there’s too many being introduced by one or two of the session participants it can take away some of the enjoyment for all who are there to play. If a group on people comes together for a session with the intent of only playing original tunes – that’s their prerogative and there’s nothing wrong with that. I wouldn’t dream of joining in and trying to change it into something more conventional – it’s their session.

# Posted on January 27th 2006 by Phantom Button

Re: Writing and playing your own tunes

“It's very interesting to hear composing described as an easy option”. I agree. It’s great to exercise one’s creativity, but do to so for expediency’s sake doesn’t motivate me to want to hear it. I would seriously doubt that someone of Liz Carroll’s caliber, decide some morning to write a couple of jigs to fill up a disc to record and sell. If this is a prime motivator for recording artists, maybe Michael Gill is right, too many tunes!

# Posted on January 27th 2006 by Agnes Nutter

Re: Writing and playing your own tunes

I don't know where slainte gets the idea "musicians who mainly play Irish music generally tend to stick to traditional tunes both in sessions and recordings." Seems to me that non-recording-star Irish musicians usually play tunes written in the last century about 10%-20% of the time. For instance Horan & Finn's Music of Sligo has 30 tunes on it, 6 of which are 20th century tunes: "Maid of Mt Cisco" (Killoran), "Ebb Tide" (Sean Ryan), "Martin Wynne's 1&2", "Michael Reilly's" (Sean Ryan), and "The Providence" (seems to be some dispute).

I guess you could argue that by now these tunes are traditional... Certainly I don't think Irish musicians usually play much stuff written in, say, the last five years. But it's not so much rejecting newness as being slow to accept it...

# Posted on January 27th 2006 by Sol Foster

Re: Writing and playing your own tunes

The real test of how good a new tune is will be if it gets accepted into the session repertoire, the tradition. I don't know how long that might be.
The problem the young lady quoted at the beginning might find is that, if their new tunes are not as good as traditional ones, they might find their audiences dwindling for gigs and album sales, which will be a quicker acid test for their writing talent.
I remain slightly peplexed, though. Do they really reckon they can dash off good tunes just like that, or are they just too damn lazy to do any research ?

# Posted on January 28th 2006 by Guernsey Pete

Re: Writing and playing your own tunes

IMO we owe new tunes a respectful listen, and if they take for us, to learn and play them.

All the old favorites were once new and perhaps had a hard time getting played.

# Posted on January 28th 2006 by cathrynb

Re: Writing and playing your own tunes

It's also kinda ironic to classify anything composed in the last 50-60 years as "new," because that's how long pub sessions have been around.

Good tunes are good tunes, no matter when they were written.
The tragedy of new tunes isn;t necessarily the new tunes themselves, it's that some old gems get buried. Thankfully our era has preserved more music than any before by orders of magnitude.

While reading this thread I was noodling out a Robbie Hannan tune and a Mike Rafferty tune.

# Posted on January 28th 2006 by wormdiet

Re: Writing and playing your own tunes

Sol Foster, I mean musicians who mainly play Irish music generally tend to stick to traditional tunes *compared to those who mainly play Scottish or Cape Breton music.*

# Posted on January 28th 2006 by slainte

Re: Writing and playing your own tunes

Since my sample size of older guys steeped in those traditions is drastically low (about two players, one of them a major composer), I'll have to bow to your experience.

As for the last 50-60 years being new, remember that Fred Finn has been gone for 20 years now, and the album probably is a fair reflection of the tunes the duo was playing in the 70s, so it's probably more accurate to say they played some tunes which were 20-30 years old, all written during their lifetimes. The composers were either their contemporaries or from the previous generation.

I think it's a nice way of handling it -- you don't simply stick to the tunes that were around when you learned the instrument, but you do give the new tunes a chance to be batted around a bit by the tradition before you pick them up. (Certainly both Sean Ryan tunes they recorded are noticably different than the settings in the Sean Ryan tunebook, for instance, and they didn't know his names for the tunes.)

# Posted on January 28th 2006 by Sol Foster

Re: Writing and playing your own tunes

I think a mix is fine.There are some fine new tunes I think will stand the test of time.Inion Ni Scannlain by Donogh Hennessey is one example of a well crafted tune.

# Posted on January 28th 2006 by dorian

Re: Writing and playing your own tunes

I’m struck by how much of a big deal it is to some of ye. There’d be a fairly modern repertoire in the conradh session tues nights on harcourt street, dublin and this is largely down to the young musicians having extra ordinary quick ears for picking up the stuff. they have quick ears because they have amazing passion for the music and spend a long time practicing and getting good at it etc...

for this reason, the contempt for the young composers by many of the older guys is unjustified. in some (not all) cases, they like to speak negatively of young writers because their level of skill quite simply doesn't allow them to understand the newer tunes complexity and leaves them stranded because there’s not much of a chance they'll be able to pick it up after a few hearings.

"do they really reckon they can dash of tunes like that, or are they too damn lazy to do any research?" the reality is that many young players and composers CAN make a tune up on the spot if you wanted, it is a testament to their dedication, love and practice of the art as opposed to talking romantically about it. tunes are never written with the intention of becoming no1 hits, they're expressions of the writer and for that reason alone, have an already valid place in the tradition. the pop of everybody playing it is only an egotistical boost.

creativley yours,

MARTourIshN :)

hope this doesn't sound too neg. but someone has to stick up for us!

# Posted on January 29th 2006 by martin t

Re: Writing and playing your own tunes

Surely ALL the tunes were new once? In that sense I would argue that the genre is traditional - not any specific tune.

# Posted on January 29th 2006 by breandan

Re: Writing and playing your own tunes

Geesh, I thought I WAS sticking up for the new tunists.

# Posted on January 29th 2006 by Phantom Button

Re: Writing and playing your own tunes

Good topic.
Jack - I like some of the tunes you've written, but generally I prefer the oldies.


# Posted on January 30th 2006 by Hugo Chavez

Re: Writing and playing your own tunes

Well put Martin,
some of the younger, more energetic(!) players we play with absorb and play new tunes from their mates, from each other, and from new CDs just as soon as they appear. It keeps sessions fresh, and gives the good new stuff the chance to enter the tradition, as it were. Some tunes get played a lot, and then fade away, but the really good ones stick. It goes some way towards the idea of learning a 'fixed' repertoire of tunes - learning tunes and then just letting them go is good for the musical mind I think - like a sort of aerobic brain exercise that keeps you on top of the music, rather than an anally retentive 'collecter's mentality' ... ;-)
It also forces lazy old duffers like myself to keep on their toes!
Mark

# Posted on January 30th 2006 by Ottery

Re: Writing and playing your own tunes

I meant: "It goes some way towards COUNTERING the idea of learning a 'fixed' repertoire of tunes...."
Duh!

# Posted on January 30th 2006 by Ottery

Re: Writing and playing your own tunes

When you are fairly new to the music, you go through a period of exponential tune learning. You want to do this, you have to do it, it's perfectly natural. You learn whatever tunes that come your way. But the one thing you don't do is have any quality control. When you get older (or being playing a little longer), you slow down your voracious appetite for new tunes and you start a process of revisiting some of your longer known tunes.

What's important though, is that where ever you are on this journey, you don't abuse or ignore those who are on another part of it.

If you are young and learning loads of new tunes, take the time out to check what tunes are popular with the older, more experienced (I don't mean better) players. It's not for nothing that tunes you may think are old hat, are still getting played.

And if you are older and you are sick of these newfangled weird tunes the young uns blast through every week. Take the time out to see if any of these tunes really catch your ear, and make an effort to learn one or two.

But where ever you are, the one thing you must make a real effort to avoid doing, is learning a tune for no other reason than just because your mate wrote it.

# Posted on January 30th 2006 by llig leahcim

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