My friend went to stay in a hotel in Glasgow. He asked if he could have a tartan room. They replied that they would be happy to provide him with the room, but the gentleman would need to make his own arrangements in respect of company.
"Saffron" has been misinterpreted in modern times by the inventor of the Irish kilt (and the "Irish" kilt arose post WWI and its inventor is known) to mean the color we now call saffron, a kind of mustardy yellow-brown.
Traditionally saffron meant the color you get when you *dye* with saffron, which is yellow-yellow. Yellow is the color of the Irish léine, a dress, not a skirt.
Since the Irish kilt is a modern invention in an attempt to define a costume that is "Not English" and the color is wrong anyway I'd say you're pretty much free to do as you wish, but that doesn't mean you won't make people unhappy about it. God forbid you should actually dress like an Irishman instead of as a Scot dressed as the English dressed him.
That "Saffron" colour is actually called "Ruggy". It's an attempt to recreate a style of dress that was banned by the English way back in the fourteenth century.
I have looked for a solid color kilt, both indigo and ruggy, but one the websites available to us in the states all we can find is the plaid in various blends of material. So if anyone stateside knows where to order solid colored kilts. And for cthuilleannpiper, might I simply state that if *real* irish pipers did not play the prime scottish songs they might understand more about who stole what. May the God you believe in bless you as he did our dear Robert Burns - and please don't steal any of his songs, find really prime irish songs to play.
You've headed this thread "Irish Kilt". I had a Google on "Ruggy" - I didn't know it was a program on Lunix - well, there you are, then. But no kilts. So I did a google on "Irish Kilt".
And that Saffron one is apparently the kilt of the Irish Fusiliers! Stone the crows! I didn't know that. But I do now.
And I did think I'd seen a few green ones - the pix on the site bear this out, but yes, there were lots of tartans. And apparently that Indigo kilt is a clan kilt of a family - nuts - it's gone. Sorry. You'll just have to google it for yourself.
You could always wear one of those Utilikilts (or other brand of "men's unbifurated garment"), which are (often) solid colored and (whatever else they may be) not poncey. I rather like the black leather ones. <ducks and covers>
For the budget concious, making your own kilt as KFG suggested really is an option. Just don't make an ordinary pleated skirt or it will look like you swiped it from a Catholic or Japanese school girl. Unless that's the look you're going for, in which case that's more than I want to know. But seriously, there are patterns/instructions for making your own kilt or kilt-like unbifurcated garment available from Simplicity (#5029) and Folkwear (#152).
IMHO if you think you need an "Irish kilt" because it's "traditional", save your money. On the other hand, if you need that kilt because the people who are paying you to play expect a kilt, or can be persuaded to pay you more because you're wearing one, then go for it! Never is money more green than St. Patrick's Day.
Hey, texross, I'm calling it as I see it: a bunch of tossers impersonating a pipe band, murdering Scotland the Brave in front of drunken Americans who don't know the difference between good and bad piping, authentic and vaudeville minstrelsy is no way to celebrate either Scottish or Irish culture, period.
If that is your major point, forgive me, I whole heartedly agree. And for much of the same comments of one of the fiddle sessions I was hacked up. The faudefille minstrelsy is almost poetic as a description of what thay parade around here, down south as Piping groups and Celtic groups, who would not even know the difference is Irish or Scottish. What ever flavor you like, you should get it made with enough flavor to know its an authentic restatement of the tradition. I enjoy both, but happen to have been a Burns fancier since college some 35 years ago. An I love my father's homeland. Forgive my knee-jerk response and believe we have more in common that what first appeared. Stay amatuer, and stay off the streets, out of the parades and off the stage until you have learned how to do just to all Celtic forms of tradtional fork performance. As I stated on one of the fiddel discussions, stay on the porch and practice. "if you can't run with the big dogs, don't get off the porch.
As far as I recall, there is no such thing as an Irish kilt, saffron, green or otherwise. It seems an invention of Scots pipe bands and Irish Americans.
I realize these posts are very old, but I've been researching my Irish family background, including traditional clothing from different periods. We are a mix of Forbes Clan (Scots), of which the Watters sept is one family of many with similar variations. Anyway, I was looking for some traditional Irish garb and got embroiled in the kilt discussions, including the American versions. As far as I can tell and most of you agree, there never was an "Irish" kilt, only the leine croich (saffron tunic), and even then us nonaristocracy could never afford saffron. Hence, the horse urine staining process, as well as the pine pitch treatment rendered a more orangish brownish shirt of sorts. Lastly, the closest thing to an "Irish" kilt in the States would be the Utilikilt Works (camel color) . . a fine garment by any definition . . . maybe the new "traditional" Irish kilt in America?! Grace Me Guide, Patrick Watters
irish kilt
irish kilt
St Patrick`s day is nearly here & I need a kilt I have 2 from pipe bands but I need an Irish one - does it have to be that boring saffron ?
# Posted on January 19th 2006 by black
Re: irish kilt
I don't think I've ever seen an Irish kilt that wasn't a plain brown (wouldn't have said it was saffron though!)
# Posted on January 19th 2006 by Compo
Re: irish kilt
My friend went to stay in a hotel in Glasgow. He asked if he could have a tartan room. They replied that they would be happy to provide him with the room, but the gentleman would need to make his own arrangements in respect of company.
# Posted on January 19th 2006 by showaddydadito
Re: irish kilt
"Saffron" has been misinterpreted in modern times by the inventor of the Irish kilt (and the "Irish" kilt arose post WWI and its inventor is known) to mean the color we now call saffron, a kind of mustardy yellow-brown.
Traditionally saffron meant the color you get when you *dye* with saffron, which is yellow-yellow. Yellow is the color of the Irish léine, a dress, not a skirt.
Since the Irish kilt is a modern invention in an attempt to define a costume that is "Not English" and the color is wrong anyway I'd say you're pretty much free to do as you wish, but that doesn't mean you won't make people unhappy about it. God forbid you should actually dress like an Irishman instead of as a Scot dressed as the English dressed him.
Ah, the ironies.
KFG
# Posted on January 19th 2006 by KFG
Re: irish kilt
I've seen male Irish dancers wear a plain indigo kilt. Looks fine, not too poncey.
# Posted on January 19th 2006 by Conán McDonnell
Re: irish kilt
That "Saffron" colour is actually called "Ruggy". It's an attempt to recreate a style of dress that was banned by the English way back in the fourteenth century.
# Posted on January 19th 2006 by Innocent Bystander
Re: irish kilt
harrumph...Scottish bands in scottish uniforms playing scottish tunes on scottish pipes in Saint Patrick's Day parades mutter mutter mutter...
Happy Robbie Burns day you lot...enjoy your haggis and try not to steal the really prime St Pat's gigs from us *real* irish pipers wink wink.
# Posted on January 19th 2006 by Hanley
Re: irish kilt
I have looked for a solid color kilt, both indigo and ruggy, but one the websites available to us in the states all we can find is the plaid in various blends of material. So if anyone stateside knows where to order solid colored kilts. And for cthuilleannpiper, might I simply state that if *real* irish pipers did not play the prime scottish songs they might understand more about who stole what. May the God you believe in bless you as he did our dear Robert Burns - and please don't steal any of his songs, find really prime irish songs to play.
# Posted on January 19th 2006 by texross
Re: irish kilt
You've headed this thread "Irish Kilt". I had a Google on "Ruggy" - I didn't know it was a program on Lunix - well, there you are, then. But no kilts. So I did a google on "Irish Kilt".
http://www.kilts.com/irishkilts.htm
And that Saffron one is apparently the kilt of the Irish Fusiliers! Stone the crows! I didn't know that. But I do now.
And I did think I'd seen a few green ones - the pix on the site bear this out, but yes, there were lots of tartans. And apparently that Indigo kilt is a clan kilt of a family - nuts - it's gone. Sorry. You'll just have to google it for yourself.
# Posted on January 19th 2006 by Innocent Bystander
Re: irish kilt
"So if anyone stateside knows where to order solid colored kilts."
How to make an Irish kilt in one easy lesson.
Go to the fabric store and find something you like. Cut two yards off the bolt.
Done.
Putting it on is the tricky part.
KFG
# Posted on January 20th 2006 by KFG
Re: irish kilt
You could always wear one of those Utilikilts (or other brand of "men's unbifurated garment"), which are (often) solid colored and (whatever else they may be) not poncey. I rather like the black leather ones. <ducks and covers>
For the budget concious, making your own kilt as KFG suggested really is an option. Just don't make an ordinary pleated skirt or it will look like you swiped it from a Catholic or Japanese school girl. Unless that's the look you're going for, in which case that's more than I want to know. But seriously, there are patterns/instructions for making your own kilt or kilt-like unbifurcated garment available from Simplicity (#5029) and Folkwear (#152).
IMHO if you think you need an "Irish kilt" because it's "traditional", save your money. On the other hand, if you need that kilt because the people who are paying you to play expect a kilt, or can be persuaded to pay you more because you're wearing one, then go for it! Never is money more green than St. Patrick's Day.
# Posted on January 20th 2006 by Tracie
Texross
Hey, texross, I'm calling it as I see it: a bunch of tossers impersonating a pipe band, murdering Scotland the Brave in front of drunken Americans who don't know the difference between good and bad piping, authentic and vaudeville minstrelsy is no way to celebrate either Scottish or Irish culture, period.
# Posted on January 20th 2006 by Hanley
Re: Now with that I agree
If that is your major point, forgive me, I whole heartedly agree. And for much of the same comments of one of the fiddle sessions I was hacked up. The faudefille minstrelsy is almost poetic as a description of what thay parade around here, down south as Piping groups and Celtic groups, who would not even know the difference is Irish or Scottish. What ever flavor you like, you should get it made with enough flavor to know its an authentic restatement of the tradition. I enjoy both, but happen to have been a Burns fancier since college some 35 years ago. An I love my father's homeland. Forgive my knee-jerk response and believe we have more in common that what first appeared. Stay amatuer, and stay off the streets, out of the parades and off the stage until you have learned how to do just to all Celtic forms of tradtional fork performance. As I stated on one of the fiddel discussions, stay on the porch and practice. "if you can't run with the big dogs, don't get off the porch.
# Posted on January 20th 2006 by texross
Re: irish kilt
As far as I recall, there is no such thing as an Irish kilt, saffron, green or otherwise. It seems an invention of Scots pipe bands and Irish Americans.
# Posted on February 17th 2008 by janeann
Re: irish kilt
"traditional fork performance."
Now what on earth is that?
# Posted on February 17th 2008 by grego
Re: irish kilt
I realize these posts are very old, but I've been researching my Irish family background, including traditional clothing from different periods. We are a mix of Forbes Clan (Scots), of which the Watters sept is one family of many with similar variations. Anyway, I was looking for some traditional Irish garb and got embroiled in the kilt discussions, including the American versions. As far as I can tell and most of you agree, there never was an "Irish" kilt, only the leine croich (saffron tunic), and even then us nonaristocracy could never afford saffron. Hence, the horse urine staining process, as well as the pine pitch treatment rendered a more orangish brownish shirt of sorts. Lastly, the closest thing to an "Irish" kilt in the States would be the Utilikilt Works (camel color) . . a fine garment by any definition . . . maybe the new "traditional" Irish kilt in America?! Grace Me Guide, Patrick Watters
# Posted on September 12th 2009 by Patrick Watters