I've just about resigned myself to futility when it comes to playing melody on guitar. I've been trying DADGAD flatpicking (Irish tunes, of course) for months and I'm really tired of the stretches, etc. I've always loved playing backup on guitar, so maybe I'll just stick to that...I have a Crump bouzouki on order, but I don't plan to play melody on it; at least not a whole lot. I've tried my hand at tenor banjo and didn't like the tone as much as I like mandolin, so the question is:
"What's the best beginner's mandolin out there?"
My price range is under $1000 USD (830 Euro, 570 GBP). Please exclude ABSOLUTE beginners' instruments from this list; that means NO LAMINATES, etc. I don't need electronics. The brands I've already looked at are:
Rover, Breedlove, Mid-Missouri, Johnson, Michael Kelly, Eastman, Kentucky, and Troubadour. (Are any of these good?) Also,
"What features should I look for in a quality mandolin?"
Carved top/back? Adjustable truss rod? Oval hole or F-holes? Woods? Bracing? Radiused fingerboard? Fingerboard width? Considerations for big fingers? Dove-tail neck joint? And finally,
"Is it easier to play melody on mandolin?"
I hope it will be but I do love the sound of a mandolin so it won't influence my decision to pick one up. I saw some inexpensive ones that looked ("looked") like good buys, but I could be wrong. That's why I come to you fine people.
You can get a vintage Gibson (ca 1920’s) teardrop oval-hole model (A-2, etc.) for around $1000, sometimes less. Mick Moloney’s “Strings Attached” album features one of these.
If you're buying for $1000, do you want something new or used? If you're willing to buy a quality used instrument, then you've just quadrupled your possibilities. For that price, you can probably get a better instrument used if you spend the time looking around the net and calling to see if the shops will ship. If it's your first mandolin and you don't quite know what you're looking at then stick with a dealer over an auction from a private seller who does not necessarily specialize in musical instruments. Especially the older ones can turn out to be total junk.
An oval sound hole will give you more volume, the F-hole instruments might give you more tone if is everything is solid wood. For Irish music get the open hole.
Carved top, back and sides are absolutely necessary if you're paying that much money. And for just a hundred dollars more or so you have a whole new level of instruments to choose from, so, if you're going to keep at it, why are you buying a beginner's instrument?
Don't be too concerned with an adjustable truss rod, neck joint, etc. Although I guess it's desirable, most models for that much money that I've seen have a truss rod and the other features you mentioned. I've had mine for seven years and never needed to adjust it once. The bridge and if need be the nut should be where you adjust the action. If it's not comfortable and staying in tune with proper intonation after fiddling with those first, then don't buy it because you'll never set it up right. Dont worry about big hands, my friend Tim stands 6'4" and has fingers like you'd see on a baseball mitt, and it's eighth wonder of the world that he can even get a note out of the thing.Yet, he is one of the best players I know. It's almost comical watching him hunched over his tiny instrument like a gorilla with a uke, a flurry of notes flying in the air.
Spruce is brightest, maple, walnut both very mellow. Mahoghany is a nice compliment to spruce, very common and pretty cheap also. You'll probably pay more for walnut, maple, rosewood. Cedar is a very mellow wood but a bit quiet for my taste.
I'd be careful about trying to play backup on a mandolin, though... unless you're doing a chop at a bluegrass session it might serve more to irritate some people. Chords are tricky to follow the modes correctly. I've only ever heard a handful of professional recordings with mandolin player doing backup, and even them it wasn't really strummed chords, more of a counterpoint thing.
I have a Mid-Missouri M4, and am very satisfied with it. I also know several other who have a Mid-Mo, who are also satisfied. It is solid wood construction (no laminates), well constructed, and has a good sound. There motto is "No frills. No plywood." So, it is not going to be the fanciest mandolin around. All I play is melody. You don't have too big a stretch to reach the high b on the e string. I have fairly short, chubby fingers, but find the Mid-Mo has a suitable fretboard width and string spacing. As usual with this stuff, best to try out several in person.
There's no short answer to this question...but I agree with Bob h; I really prefer the feel and sound of vintage Gibson A's from the teens/early twenties, and these can still be a bargain, especially if you're not a stickler for finish condition and all original parts/case. I recently purchased a late teens/early twenties (the SN is obscured, so I'm not sure of the year) Gibson Ajr. w/non-original hsc for $750 plus shipping; it still has the original tailpiece, pickguard, and bridge. I also have a 1919 A-2, which is my main instrument.
Another vintage bargain that still abounds are Martin series A or B mandolins; these are in the Portuguese style and have flat tops and backs. They have a shorter scale length than the Gibsons (13" vs. 13 7/8") and are lighter built, so it's a quite different feel and sound.
I have a carved, f-hole, vintage Martin for sale (on consignment) at Schoenberg Guitars in the SF Bay Area. These are different yet again from the flat top/back Martins; obviously, I prefered the Gibson feel/sound, but take a look:
That said, when this question comes up over at mandolincafe.com (and it continually does), most folks recommend a new or used Mid-Missouri mandolin. I started with a MidMo and eventually found the tone unsatisfying (too much like a little guitar...); but they are really well made, all solid woods, and great folks to deal with. All of the above, if purchased in playable condition, will keep their resale value. Best to play and choose, of course.
Check out Weber (or is it Webber?), too. They're made in Montana -- Will Harmon country -- by people who were connected with the Gibson company but broke away, as I understand it.
Since eochracha has recommemded paying closer attention to your questions, I will try to address the last one. Yes, it is easier to play tune melodies on mandolin. It's the same fingering as the fiddle, and while you'll have to negotiate ornaments differently, you'll find it great fun and much easier.
What's more, comming from guitar, you'll find a four course instrument tuned in fifth way more rational, and the fretboard much faster to learn than guitar. And you can place almost any session tune without leaving first position. This is one reason I like the old Gibsons (with their shorter necks) for ITM; you really don't need to go up the neck.
Tunes you already have in your head will come to hand easily for you. The big learning curve will be good tone, and right hand techique with the pick. This will be be the most different than guitar. Also, you will find that your caluses formed for single strings don't help on the double strings, and vic versa. Good luck with fnding an instrument, and have fun!
The M1 & M2 are around £500 - £600 and there is probably a custom fitted headway active pickup.
I have been to his house and played them all and they are cream of the crop so I have decided I have to own one soon and ditch the ozark electro acoustic sideways into the River Thames from Putney Bridge filled with lead shot so it never surfaces again.
I’ve tried most of the mandolins you mentioned. I’d say the Breedlove and Mid-mo are the best value and would be very decent starter mandolins. I’d personally stay away from Michael Kelly, and Johnson. If you can, go out a play the one you want to buy as mandolins at this level can be very inconsistent. It is possible to get a really good one. I recently played a Kentucky that actually compared well with my much more expensive instrument.
As some folks suggested above, a late teens Gibson might be a good choice. My first good mando was a 1919 teens A4. It lasted a few years before I got to a level where I needed something with easier playability and more projection.
I hate to say it, but the original posting shows how some of us live in different worlds. I don't have $1000 or the equivalent to spend on a beginner instrument. My SO, this evening, was saying how she wanted a session to get the taste of the day out of her mouth, but thought going as far as south of the river to the Crown and Cushion was a bridge too far ( and too expensive ).This leads into the political discussion I keep trying to start about "What are we paid all this money in the Western/First World for doing ?" ( You do know, don't you, that China now makes everything we need in the West ? )
If my boat comes in or my numbers come up I look forward to investing in a couple of bespoke/hand-made instruments to my specifications, but for the moment I, personally, would be much more conservative, certainly for a "beginner" model. Of course the better the instrument you buy, the more it retains its resale value if you don't get on with it. On this basis a secondhand model would cost you little in the long run if you're dssatisfied. But best play before you buy if at all possible. Cruising on ebay yesterday I noticed Martin model 'A's seemed quite well-priced, especially after Hobgoblin London sold one for £999 quite recently !
I have owned a Mid-Missouri M2, a Breedlove Quartz KF (f holes), a Breedlove Quartz KO (oval hole), and a 1916 Gibson A1. Ranked in order: Gibson A1 (none of the others come close), Breedlove KF, Breedlove KO, Mid-Missouri .
All are carved tops except the Mid-Missouri which ia a flat top. All are round holes except the Breedlove KF. Carved tops are louder than flat tops and f holes are louder than round holes, all other things being equal.
For $1,000 you can buy any of these either new or used. You may have to pay a little more for an old Gibson, but it would be money well spent. If you get an old Gibson make sure you take it to a good luthier to be checked out before any money changes hands. If there are any repair issues you want that cost to be reflected in the selling price.
GIbson bought the Montana-based Flatiron Mandolin and Banjo Company in 1987 and they became the mandolin division of Gibson. When Gibson move the factory to Nashville in 1996, a number of employees, including Bruce Weber, stayed in Montana and started Sound To Earth, which makes the Weber instruments.
Extremely high quality instruments, cheaper than Gibsons. They are also very willing to work with you for your individual needs. I bought a mandolin from them a few years ago. I actually purchased it thorough Mandolin Brothers (www.mandoweb.com) but had several conversations with Paula Lewis, Sound To Earth's sales manager in Montana, about my needs for the instrument. They tracked it for me as it was being built and then shipped it to Mandolin Bros., who sent it to me.
I got a Weber Aspen #1. It's great. Very loud with great tone. For what it's worth, Elderly Instruments has a used on for sale (not mine) for $775.
A good point from Guernsey Pete: A decent, brand name used mando will hold its value in the market, whereas a new one will depreciate for a few years before it begins to recover (if it ever does). In other words, if it doesn’t work out, you can probably immediately get all of your money back out of the used model.
Since 1992 I have bee using a Trinity College Celtic mandolin. Seven times to Ireland and great fro coltic music. 1 1/4 neck. 300 and someting at Elderly. For the price they are hard to beat. Better than my 20's Vega. And better than most I have played including gibsons. If you have the money get a Joe Foley, Sobell, or Stuart. I will get a Foley or Stuart in the future. Flat top solid bridge is what you want. Like the above.
MacThewife - I disagree completely -
I had a Hathway mando and zouk - they both needed extensive work from Joe Foley beforethey started sounding and playing as i wanted.
They have a lovely finish and are good robust instruments but the bridges on mine were the worst ive seen on any instrument...
Best Beginner Mandolin?
Best Beginner Mandolin?
Hello out there!
I've just about resigned myself to futility when it comes to playing melody on guitar. I've been trying DADGAD flatpicking (Irish tunes, of course) for months and I'm really tired of the stretches, etc. I've always loved playing backup on guitar, so maybe I'll just stick to that...I have a Crump bouzouki on order, but I don't plan to play melody on it; at least not a whole lot. I've tried my hand at tenor banjo and didn't like the tone as much as I like mandolin, so the question is:
"What's the best beginner's mandolin out there?"
My price range is under $1000 USD (830 Euro, 570 GBP). Please exclude ABSOLUTE beginners' instruments from this list; that means NO LAMINATES, etc. I don't need electronics. The brands I've already looked at are:
Rover, Breedlove, Mid-Missouri, Johnson, Michael Kelly, Eastman, Kentucky, and Troubadour. (Are any of these good?) Also,
"What features should I look for in a quality mandolin?"
Carved top/back? Adjustable truss rod? Oval hole or F-holes? Woods? Bracing? Radiused fingerboard? Fingerboard width? Considerations for big fingers? Dove-tail neck joint? And finally,
"Is it easier to play melody on mandolin?"
I hope it will be but I do love the sound of a mandolin so it won't influence my decision to pick one up. I saw some inexpensive ones that looked ("looked") like good buys, but I could be wrong. That's why I come to you fine people.
Thanks,
Sean Earnest
Camp Hill, PA, USA
# Posted on January 17th 2006 by DADGADLad
Re: Best Beginner Mandolin?
You can get a vintage Gibson (ca 1920’s) teardrop oval-hole model (A-2, etc.) for around $1000, sometimes less. Mick Moloney’s “Strings Attached” album features one of these.
# Posted on January 17th 2006 by Bob himself
Re: Best Beginner Mandolin?
If you're buying for $1000, do you want something new or used? If you're willing to buy a quality used instrument, then you've just quadrupled your possibilities. For that price, you can probably get a better instrument used if you spend the time looking around the net and calling to see if the shops will ship. If it's your first mandolin and you don't quite know what you're looking at then stick with a dealer over an auction from a private seller who does not necessarily specialize in musical instruments. Especially the older ones can turn out to be total junk.
An oval sound hole will give you more volume, the F-hole instruments might give you more tone if is everything is solid wood. For Irish music get the open hole.
Carved top, back and sides are absolutely necessary if you're paying that much money. And for just a hundred dollars more or so you have a whole new level of instruments to choose from, so, if you're going to keep at it, why are you buying a beginner's instrument?
Don't be too concerned with an adjustable truss rod, neck joint, etc. Although I guess it's desirable, most models for that much money that I've seen have a truss rod and the other features you mentioned. I've had mine for seven years and never needed to adjust it once. The bridge and if need be the nut should be where you adjust the action. If it's not comfortable and staying in tune with proper intonation after fiddling with those first, then don't buy it because you'll never set it up right. Dont worry about big hands, my friend Tim stands 6'4" and has fingers like you'd see on a baseball mitt, and it's eighth wonder of the world that he can even get a note out of the thing.Yet, he is one of the best players I know. It's almost comical watching him hunched over his tiny instrument like a gorilla with a uke, a flurry of notes flying in the air.
Spruce is brightest, maple, walnut both very mellow. Mahoghany is a nice compliment to spruce, very common and pretty cheap also. You'll probably pay more for walnut, maple, rosewood. Cedar is a very mellow wood but a bit quiet for my taste.
I'd be careful about trying to play backup on a mandolin, though... unless you're doing a chop at a bluegrass session it might serve more to irritate some people. Chords are tricky to follow the modes correctly. I've only ever heard a handful of professional recordings with mandolin player doing backup, and even them it wasn't really strummed chords, more of a counterpoint thing.
# Posted on January 17th 2006 by gravelwalks
Re: Best Beginner Mandolin?
i have a set of links from somewhere around the last time i went shopping... ill try to post them later tonight
# Posted on January 18th 2006 by gravelwalks
Re: Best Beginner Mandolin?
I have a Mid-Missouri M4, and am very satisfied with it. I also know several other who have a Mid-Mo, who are also satisfied. It is solid wood construction (no laminates), well constructed, and has a good sound. There motto is "No frills. No plywood." So, it is not going to be the fanciest mandolin around. All I play is melody. You don't have too big a stretch to reach the high b on the e string. I have fairly short, chubby fingers, but find the Mid-Mo has a suitable fretboard width and string spacing. As usual with this stuff, best to try out several in person.
Thanks,
Jiml
# Posted on January 18th 2006 by Jiml
Re: Best Beginner Mandolin?
Sean,
There's no short answer to this question...but I agree with Bob h; I really prefer the feel and sound of vintage Gibson A's from the teens/early twenties, and these can still be a bargain, especially if you're not a stickler for finish condition and all original parts/case. I recently purchased a late teens/early twenties (the SN is obscured, so I'm not sure of the year) Gibson Ajr. w/non-original hsc for $750 plus shipping; it still has the original tailpiece, pickguard, and bridge. I also have a 1919 A-2, which is my main instrument.
Another vintage bargain that still abounds are Martin series A or B mandolins; these are in the Portuguese style and have flat tops and backs. They have a shorter scale length than the Gibsons (13" vs. 13 7/8") and are lighter built, so it's a quite different feel and sound.
I have a carved, f-hole, vintage Martin for sale (on consignment) at Schoenberg Guitars in the SF Bay Area. These are different yet again from the flat top/back Martins; obviously, I prefered the Gibson feel/sound, but take a look:
http://om28.com/smando/mar215.html
That said, when this question comes up over at mandolincafe.com (and it continually does), most folks recommend a new or used Mid-Missouri mandolin. I started with a MidMo and eventually found the tone unsatisfying (too much like a little guitar...); but they are really well made, all solid woods, and great folks to deal with. All of the above, if purchased in playable condition, will keep their resale value. Best to play and choose, of course.
A few online dealers include (will at least give you an idea of what's out there and what they go for):
http://bernunzio.com/
http://www.vintagemandolin.com/
http://www.gregboyd.com/mando.html
http://vintageinstruments.com/
http://www.mandolincafe.com (see the classifieds)
om28.com
# Posted on January 18th 2006 by Keith Dubinsky
Re: Best Beginner Mandolin?
Check out Weber (or is it Webber?), too. They're made in Montana -- Will Harmon country -- by people who were connected with the Gibson company but broke away, as I understand it.
# Posted on January 18th 2006 by cuchulain54
Re: Best Beginner Mandolin?
Hey Sean,
Since eochracha has recommemded paying closer attention to your questions, I will try to address the last one. Yes, it is easier to play tune melodies on mandolin. It's the same fingering as the fiddle, and while you'll have to negotiate ornaments differently, you'll find it great fun and much easier.
What's more, comming from guitar, you'll find a four course instrument tuned in fifth way more rational, and the fretboard much faster to learn than guitar. And you can place almost any session tune without leaving first position. This is one reason I like the old Gibsons (with their shorter necks) for ITM; you really don't need to go up the neck.
Tunes you already have in your head will come to hand easily for you. The big learning curve will be good tone, and right hand techique with the pick. This will be be the most different than guitar. Also, you will find that your caluses formed for single strings don't help on the double strings, and vic versa. Good luck with fnding an instrument, and have fun!
# Posted on January 18th 2006 by Keith Dubinsky
Re: Best Beginner Mandolin?
http://www.paulhathway.com/03.html
The M1 & M2 are around £500 - £600 and there is probably a custom fitted headway active pickup.
I have been to his house and played them all and they are cream of the crop so I have decided I have to own one soon and ditch the ozark electro acoustic sideways into the River Thames from Putney Bridge filled with lead shot so it never surfaces again.
# Posted on January 18th 2006 by Ripthecalico
Re: Best Beginner Mandolin?
I’ve tried most of the mandolins you mentioned. I’d say the Breedlove and Mid-mo are the best value and would be very decent starter mandolins. I’d personally stay away from Michael Kelly, and Johnson. If you can, go out a play the one you want to buy as mandolins at this level can be very inconsistent. It is possible to get a really good one. I recently played a Kentucky that actually compared well with my much more expensive instrument.
As some folks suggested above, a late teens Gibson might be a good choice. My first good mando was a 1919 teens A4. It lasted a few years before I got to a level where I needed something with easier playability and more projection.
# Posted on January 18th 2006 by iampeterfonda
Re: Best Beginner Mandolin?
I hate to say it, but the original posting shows how some of us live in different worlds. I don't have $1000 or the equivalent to spend on a beginner instrument. My SO, this evening, was saying how she wanted a session to get the taste of the day out of her mouth, but thought going as far as south of the river to the Crown and Cushion was a bridge too far ( and too expensive ).This leads into the political discussion I keep trying to start about "What are we paid all this money in the Western/First World for doing ?" ( You do know, don't you, that China now makes everything we need in the West ? )
If my boat comes in or my numbers come up I look forward to investing in a couple of bespoke/hand-made instruments to my specifications, but for the moment I, personally, would be much more conservative, certainly for a "beginner" model. Of course the better the instrument you buy, the more it retains its resale value if you don't get on with it. On this basis a secondhand model would cost you little in the long run if you're dssatisfied. But best play before you buy if at all possible. Cruising on ebay yesterday I noticed Martin model 'A's seemed quite well-priced, especially after Hobgoblin London sold one for £999 quite recently !
# Posted on January 18th 2006 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Best Beginner Mandolin?
I have owned a Mid-Missouri M2, a Breedlove Quartz KF (f holes), a Breedlove Quartz KO (oval hole), and a 1916 Gibson A1. Ranked in order: Gibson A1 (none of the others come close), Breedlove KF, Breedlove KO, Mid-Missouri .
All are carved tops except the Mid-Missouri which ia a flat top. All are round holes except the Breedlove KF. Carved tops are louder than flat tops and f holes are louder than round holes, all other things being equal.
For $1,000 you can buy any of these either new or used. You may have to pay a little more for an old Gibson, but it would be money well spent. If you get an old Gibson make sure you take it to a good luthier to be checked out before any money changes hands. If there are any repair issues you want that cost to be reflected in the selling price.
# Posted on January 18th 2006 by griffith
Re: Best Beginner Mandolin?
You should definitely check out Weber mandolins, which carry a lifetime warrenty.
http://www.soundtoearth.com
GIbson bought the Montana-based Flatiron Mandolin and Banjo Company in 1987 and they became the mandolin division of Gibson. When Gibson move the factory to Nashville in 1996, a number of employees, including Bruce Weber, stayed in Montana and started Sound To Earth, which makes the Weber instruments.
Extremely high quality instruments, cheaper than Gibsons. They are also very willing to work with you for your individual needs. I bought a mandolin from them a few years ago. I actually purchased it thorough Mandolin Brothers (www.mandoweb.com) but had several conversations with Paula Lewis, Sound To Earth's sales manager in Montana, about my needs for the instrument. They tracked it for me as it was being built and then shipped it to Mandolin Bros., who sent it to me.
I got a Weber Aspen #1. It's great. Very loud with great tone. For what it's worth, Elderly Instruments has a used on for sale (not mine) for $775.
http://www.elderly.com/vintage/items/90U-4397.htm
# Posted on January 18th 2006 by Craymcla
Re: Best Beginner Mandolin?
A good point from Guernsey Pete: A decent, brand name used mando will hold its value in the market, whereas a new one will depreciate for a few years before it begins to recover (if it ever does). In other words, if it doesn’t work out, you can probably immediately get all of your money back out of the used model.
# Posted on January 18th 2006 by Bob himself
Re: Best Beginner Mandolin?
Since 1992 I have bee using a Trinity College Celtic mandolin. Seven times to Ireland and great fro coltic music. 1 1/4 neck. 300 and someting at Elderly. For the price they are hard to beat. Better than my 20's Vega. And better than most I have played including gibsons. If you have the money get a Joe Foley, Sobell, or Stuart. I will get a Foley or Stuart in the future. Flat top solid bridge is what you want. Like the above.
# Posted on January 18th 2006 by CDNMoose
Re: Best Beginner Mandolin?
MacThewife - I disagree completely -
I had a Hathway mando and zouk - they both needed extensive work from Joe Foley beforethey started sounding and playing as i wanted.
They have a lovely finish and are good robust instruments but the bridges on mine were the worst ive seen on any instrument...
They could have just been mine though...
# Posted on January 24th 2006 by Hugo Chavez
Re: Best Beginner Mandolin?
I own a custom Martin D41 and bought a Rover RM-75. I love it!
# Posted on July 28th 2010 by scoutniagara