Does anyone know of any particular activity such as swimming, cycling, running etc that has benefits for or conflicts with playing a particular instrument. Cycling does seem to hurt my wrists, but I probably could do with some different shaped handlebars. I was heard an Irish fiddle teacher comment that swimming the crawl was not good for fiddlers.
After playing the fiddle for years, I just can't do the crawl at all. My right shoulder just won't turn over. But I've never found cycling a problem. I have straight hande bars?
an other one is rock climbing, Knackers the tips of your fingers
The point is if you play the fiddle (or any other instrument) in the proper way you shouldn't get any pain or distress at all. We tend to think that pain is the sensible proof of our work; yet a work properly done shouldn't cause any pain at all (apart from ordinary tiredness). What is more, playing the fiddle is such a light work if compared to working in a field, isn't it?
Kat
Ok - here we go. Excellent points there nutsmuggler. M Gill has it right when he mentioned mountain climbing. Any heavy exercise on that left hand that would toughen it up or expand it is detrimental to fiddle playing.
My left hand is almost too big. Part of my playing (however unconsciously) is too move other fingers out of the way so I can lay down the next. It slows my playing down when I get beyond fifth position because are wider than a half step.
I believe that martial arts and boxing are a big time no no for fiddlers. Maybe I'll have to start playing Viola?
Sigh...as we get older, aches and pains *are* a more frequent feature of the days and nights. I've said it recently on other threads: everybody's different--some of us will ache after playing, even with proper form and mechanics. For me, regular exercise helps, but it's getting harder to find workouts that don't cause their own aches and pains.
I used to be an exercise junkie, but at 43 manage no more than a "maintenance" amount of cardio fun, averaging 5-8 hours of aerobic exercise a week. Any less than that and my arthritic back won't let me move at all. I walk a lot (used to run 50 miles a week, one reason my back is so decrepit). There's a 5,400-foot mountain four blocks from my front door, so I get plenty of huffing and puffing going up and down the trails. The normal arm motion that goes with walking helps loosen up my back and shoulders between bouts of fiddling. Circulation is a wonderful thing, carrying off all those biochemical wastes produced by four hours of jigs and reels. Raise your heart rate and your muscles (even those little ones in your fingers) will feel better. Walking at a good clip really is good exercise and wholly enjoyable. It's also portable--with a decent pair of shoes you can walk anywhere you go--cities or wilderness, beach, plains, or mountains.
I usually alternate days of hiking with bicycling, riding a full suspension mountain bike. The extra cushion (and relatively upright riding posture) is gentle on the hands and back. If your wrists get sore from cycling (not uncommon), ask your local shop to raise your handlebar stem, perhaps even switching it for a higher-rising stem. I gave up my road bike after 20 years of time trials and criteriums and touring because the bent-over posture put too much pressure on my hands and shoulders. I still do road rides, on my "Lazy-Boy-on-wheels," just to avoid riding rugged trails every day.
Swimming works too, despite my shoulder problems. I wear swim fins (I'm in a local lake for this) and do at least half the distance on my back, or wear a mask and snorkel and just kick. It's mostly a leg work out, but I can flex my arms through their comfortable range of motion enough to feel the workout.
In the winter, I try to keep up my hiking routine, but "cross train" by cross country skiing, snowboarding, and ice skating. The x-c skiing is great exercise, but clutching poles tends to wreck my hands for later fiddling.
Lots of musicians find benefit from Tai Chi, yoga, pilates, alexander technique, etc. Try a bunch of different things and find what works for you.
I have been wondering which one of us is older Will. My frind who is waiting to test for his 4th degree has explained how you earn your black belt after the age of 40. Lots of tylenol!
I am still working for my black belt. Up to this moment, I have had three injuries that lasted far too long. A torn Calf. A hurt rear end, I won't say a thing more about that! Finally a small fracture and sprain in my left hand. That was almost a year ago, My hand still isn't the same. I am just lucky that it doesn't affect my playing (Hardly).
I have decided that I will finish earning my blackbelt but I would make this recomendation. If you are over 40, you probably don't need to learn how to fight real well so find a different exercise. Limping in pain for 2 months, cradling your hand for 6 months, and not being able to sleep on your back for a month is just not conducive to good fiddling.
I think I should have done Tai Chi or Yoga. Thanks for the advice Will but you are too late - I'm already a little broken. ;)
Ah yes, my husband and his volleyball team call it Vitamin I, Mark.
Anything that has potential to hurt the bits you play with (this includes your back) is a conflict with your playing. In moderation, however, most will have benefits.
I stopped skiing when I began dancing, for instance.
Mark, I'm 43, but the doc says I have the lumbar spine of an 87 yearold. I've mostly stuck with the same sports I've done since I was young--no new skills to learn, no new muscles to burn, and I know what the risks are and how to avoid most injuries. Mountain biking and snowboarding aren't the best outlets for fiddlers, but I'm safer with them than something new. Plus, I know no one is ever going to offer me a recording contract (unless Weird Al makes an ITM cd), so I might as well enjoy all the other stuff I like to do.
This is a bit off the wall, but I was a pro juggler in my teens and twenties, and there are lots of upper-body benefits to that as a "sport" or exercise. Great circulation enhancer, and some of the tricks work me through a great range of motion--sort of like Tai Chi on speed. But I stay away from the pins (clubs) and other hard objects--too nasty on the hands.
Yeah, I finally quit playing hockey because it beat up my hands too much for fiddling. But I miss it....
I have been wondering which one of us is older Will. My frind who is waiting to test for his 4th degree has explained how you earn your black belt after the age of 40. Lots of tylenol!
I am still working for my black belt. Up to this moment, I have had three injuries that lasted far too long. A torn Calf. A hurt rear end, I won't say a thing more about that! Finally a small fracture and sprain in my left hand. That was almost a year ago, My hand still isn't the same. I am just lucky that it doesn't affect my playing (Hardly).
I have decided that I will finish earning my blackbelt but I would make this recomendation. If you are over 40, you probably don't need to learn how to fight real well so find a different exercise. Limping in pain for 2 months, cradling your hand for 6 months, and not being able to sleep on your back for a month is just not conducive to good fiddling.
I think I should have done Tai Chi or Yoga. Thanks for the advice Will but you are too late - I'm already a little broken. ;)
You used your "back" button, didn't you, Mark? Will, someday, you're going to have to try and teach me to juggle. I've NEVER been able to get the hang of it, and I don't know why, I have excellent hand eye coordination. But I've never been able to do it, no matter how long I tried. *sigh*
I had an amazingly severe cramp in my right calf two or three weeks ago. It took over a week for the problems to disappear enough for me to dance again, despite almost constant icing and massage and stretching followed by rest, and starting all over again. Getting old SUCKS.
Will wrote: "The x-c skiing is great exercise, but clutching poles tends to wreck my hands for later fiddling."
I don't know how "high-tech" your gear is, Will, but try going to your local ski shop and check out pole grips. Some of the newer styles require much less tension in the hand muscles to hold. They're pricey but might be worth it if it helps.
For what it's worth, I juggle too, though I haven't done it much in years. I thought I should learn because I rode a unicycle and everyone expected me to juggle. By the way, unicycling would probably be great excercise for people who don't want stress on their hands and back: there are no handlbars, and you HAVE to sit up straight or your center of gravity will be out of line and you'll fall over. You have to peddle all the time so you can't go as far as on a bike, but it's more of a constant excercise than biking because there are no gears and no way to coast.
Hmm . . . The key would be to get enough of a bump on your head to make your boss believe you should stay home from work for a few days, but not enough to interfere with your playing. That could be tricky, as it might not be pleasant having a fiddle close to your ear if your head actually HURTS. By all means, though, do avoid sticking out your hands to catch yourself when you fall -- wouldn't want to injure those crucial wrists and hands. Only flute players need lips, so try to take it in the face.
Jumping back to my Kato Havas point. I am just beginning to learn Havas's approach, but it already looks very interesting and promising.
If you play in the 'correct' way (which I don't!!!) you are not going to get any pain.
This has to do with the western conception of work: when we feel pain we tend to feel satisfied, since we interpret our pain as a proof of the good job we have done.
Pain IS DIFFERENT from tiredness: if we do a work (any kind of work) using our body correctly we are not going to fell any pain at all; pain is the result of the misuse of our body.
There are new violin techniques aimed at helping the players playing in the most confortable way. Kato Havas's "New Approach" is just one of this techniques, together with Menuihin's and Dominique Hoppenot's ones.
So, the pain has not to be healed by exercices; it has to be prevented by playing in the correct way; and, quite unsurprisingly, the 'traditional classical technique' is not the most confortable one.
Then, if you play in the most confortable way you are going to play better, since all your muscles are relaxed.
So, basically, pain is bad, and it is a clear sign yuor body is working uncorrectlty.
Mention of misuse of the body when we play music reminded me of a great book about Alexander technique by Pedro de Alcantara called Indirect Procedures. It's clearly written, he's a cellist and also an Alexander teacher. I liked it so much I read it twice in a row!
I find the advice in the book hard to remember all the time, but whenever I do it, it makes me play better!
In my experience, exercises have little value - you have to change the way you play. I found the Alexander Technique to be of great value. You can check it out at the main website at http://www.alexandertechnique.com
Physical exercising benefits and conflicts
Physical exercising benefits and conflicts
Does anyone know of any particular activity such as swimming, cycling, running etc that has benefits for or conflicts with playing a particular instrument. Cycling does seem to hurt my wrists, but I probably could do with some different shaped handlebars. I was heard an Irish fiddle teacher comment that swimming the crawl was not good for fiddlers.
Dave
# Posted on September 16th 2002 by Daver
Re: Physical exercising benefits and conflicts
After playing the fiddle for years, I just can't do the crawl at all. My right shoulder just won't turn over. But I've never found cycling a problem. I have straight hande bars?
an other one is rock climbing, Knackers the tips of your fingers
# Posted on September 16th 2002 by ...
Re: Physical exercising benefits and conflicts
The point is if you play the fiddle (or any other instrument) in the proper way you shouldn't get any pain or distress at all. We tend to think that pain is the sensible proof of our work; yet a work properly done shouldn't cause any pain at all (apart from ordinary tiredness). What is more, playing the fiddle is such a light work if compared to working in a field, isn't it?
Kat
# Posted on September 16th 2002 by nutsmuggler
Re: Physical exercising benefits and conflicts
right said, nutsmuggler ... and I always try to remember Will Harmon
# Posted on September 16th 2002 by crannog
Re: Physical exercising benefits and conflicts
Ok - here we go. Excellent points there nutsmuggler. M Gill has it right when he mentioned mountain climbing. Any heavy exercise on that left hand that would toughen it up or expand it is detrimental to fiddle playing.
My left hand is almost too big. Part of my playing (however unconsciously) is too move other fingers out of the way so I can lay down the next. It slows my playing down when I get beyond fifth position because are wider than a half step.
I believe that martial arts and boxing are a big time no no for fiddlers. Maybe I'll have to start playing Viola?
# Posted on September 16th 2002 by Mark Cordova
Re: Physical exercising benefits and conflicts
Sigh...as we get older, aches and pains *are* a more frequent feature of the days and nights. I've said it recently on other threads: everybody's different--some of us will ache after playing, even with proper form and mechanics. For me, regular exercise helps, but it's getting harder to find workouts that don't cause their own aches and pains.
I used to be an exercise junkie, but at 43 manage no more than a "maintenance" amount of cardio fun, averaging 5-8 hours of aerobic exercise a week. Any less than that and my arthritic back won't let me move at all. I walk a lot (used to run 50 miles a week, one reason my back is so decrepit). There's a 5,400-foot mountain four blocks from my front door, so I get plenty of huffing and puffing going up and down the trails. The normal arm motion that goes with walking helps loosen up my back and shoulders between bouts of fiddling. Circulation is a wonderful thing, carrying off all those biochemical wastes produced by four hours of jigs and reels. Raise your heart rate and your muscles (even those little ones in your fingers) will feel better. Walking at a good clip really is good exercise and wholly enjoyable. It's also portable--with a decent pair of shoes you can walk anywhere you go--cities or wilderness, beach, plains, or mountains.
I usually alternate days of hiking with bicycling, riding a full suspension mountain bike. The extra cushion (and relatively upright riding posture) is gentle on the hands and back. If your wrists get sore from cycling (not uncommon), ask your local shop to raise your handlebar stem, perhaps even switching it for a higher-rising stem. I gave up my road bike after 20 years of time trials and criteriums and touring because the bent-over posture put too much pressure on my hands and shoulders. I still do road rides, on my "Lazy-Boy-on-wheels," just to avoid riding rugged trails every day.
Swimming works too, despite my shoulder problems. I wear swim fins (I'm in a local lake for this) and do at least half the distance on my back, or wear a mask and snorkel and just kick. It's mostly a leg work out, but I can flex my arms through their comfortable range of motion enough to feel the workout.
In the winter, I try to keep up my hiking routine, but "cross train" by cross country skiing, snowboarding, and ice skating. The x-c skiing is great exercise, but clutching poles tends to wreck my hands for later fiddling.
Lots of musicians find benefit from Tai Chi, yoga, pilates, alexander technique, etc. Try a bunch of different things and find what works for you.
# Posted on September 16th 2002 by Will Harmon
Re: Physical exercising benefits and conflicts
I have been wondering which one of us is older Will. My frind who is waiting to test for his 4th degree has explained how you earn your black belt after the age of 40. Lots of tylenol!
I am still working for my black belt. Up to this moment, I have had three injuries that lasted far too long. A torn Calf. A hurt rear end, I won't say a thing more about that! Finally a small fracture and sprain in my left hand. That was almost a year ago, My hand still isn't the same. I am just lucky that it doesn't affect my playing (Hardly).
I have decided that I will finish earning my blackbelt but I would make this recomendation. If you are over 40, you probably don't need to learn how to fight real well so find a different exercise. Limping in pain for 2 months, cradling your hand for 6 months, and not being able to sleep on your back for a month is just not conducive to good fiddling.
I think I should have done Tai Chi or Yoga. Thanks for the advice Will but you are too late - I'm already a little broken. ;)
# Posted on September 16th 2002 by Mark Cordova
Re: Physical exercising benefits and conflicts
Ah yes, my husband and his volleyball team call it Vitamin I, Mark.
Anything that has potential to hurt the bits you play with (this includes your back) is a conflict with your playing. In moderation, however, most will have benefits.
I stopped skiing when I began dancing, for instance.
Zina
# Posted on September 16th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Physical exercising benefits and conflicts
Mark, I'm 43, but the doc says I have the lumbar spine of an 87 yearold. I've mostly stuck with the same sports I've done since I was young--no new skills to learn, no new muscles to burn, and I know what the risks are and how to avoid most injuries. Mountain biking and snowboarding aren't the best outlets for fiddlers, but I'm safer with them than something new. Plus, I know no one is ever going to offer me a recording contract (unless Weird Al makes an ITM cd), so I might as well enjoy all the other stuff I like to do.
This is a bit off the wall, but I was a pro juggler in my teens and twenties, and there are lots of upper-body benefits to that as a "sport" or exercise. Great circulation enhancer, and some of the tricks work me through a great range of motion--sort of like Tai Chi on speed. But I stay away from the pins (clubs) and other hard objects--too nasty on the hands.
Yeah, I finally quit playing hockey because it beat up my hands too much for fiddling. But I miss it....
# Posted on September 16th 2002 by Will Harmon
Re: Physical exercising benefits and conflicts
I have been wondering which one of us is older Will. My frind who is waiting to test for his 4th degree has explained how you earn your black belt after the age of 40. Lots of tylenol!
I am still working for my black belt. Up to this moment, I have had three injuries that lasted far too long. A torn Calf. A hurt rear end, I won't say a thing more about that! Finally a small fracture and sprain in my left hand. That was almost a year ago, My hand still isn't the same. I am just lucky that it doesn't affect my playing (Hardly).
I have decided that I will finish earning my blackbelt but I would make this recomendation. If you are over 40, you probably don't need to learn how to fight real well so find a different exercise. Limping in pain for 2 months, cradling your hand for 6 months, and not being able to sleep on your back for a month is just not conducive to good fiddling.
I think I should have done Tai Chi or Yoga. Thanks for the advice Will but you are too late - I'm already a little broken. ;)
Mark
# Posted on September 16th 2002 by Mark Cordova
Re: Physical exercising benefits and conflicts
You used your "back" button, didn't you, Mark?
Will, someday, you're going to have to try and teach me to juggle. I've NEVER been able to get the hang of it, and I don't know why, I have excellent hand eye coordination. But I've never been able to do it, no matter how long I tried. *sigh*
I had an amazingly severe cramp in my right calf two or three weeks ago. It took over a week for the problems to disappear enough for me to dance again, despite almost constant icing and massage and stretching followed by rest, and starting all over again. Getting old SUCKS.
Zina
# Posted on September 16th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Physical exercising benefits and conflicts
Will wrote: "The x-c skiing is great exercise, but clutching poles tends to wreck my hands for later fiddling."
I don't know how "high-tech" your gear is, Will, but try going to your local ski shop and check out pole grips. Some of the newer styles require much less tension in the hand muscles to hold. They're pricey but might be worth it if it helps.
For what it's worth, I juggle too, though I haven't done it much in years. I thought I should learn because I rode a unicycle and everyone expected me to juggle. By the way, unicycling would probably be great excercise for people who don't want stress on their hands and back: there are no handlbars, and you HAVE to sit up straight or your center of gravity will be out of line and you'll fall over. You have to peddle all the time so you can't go as far as on a bike, but it's more of a constant excercise than biking because there are no gears and no way to coast.
Sarah
# Posted on September 16th 2002 by x
Re: Physical exercising benefits and conflicts
Yes, but what about when I crash over on to my head, Sarah?
Zina
# Posted on September 16th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Physical exercising benefits and conflicts
Hmm . . . The key would be to get enough of a bump on your head to make your boss believe you should stay home from work for a few days, but not enough to interfere with your playing. That could be tricky, as it might not be pleasant having a fiddle close to your ear if your head actually HURTS. By all means, though, do avoid sticking out your hands to catch yourself when you fall -- wouldn't want to injure those crucial wrists and hands. Only flute players need lips, so try to take it in the face.
Sarah
# Posted on September 16th 2002 by x
Re: Physical exercising benefits and conflicts
Jumping back to my Kato Havas point. I am just beginning to learn Havas's approach, but it already looks very interesting and promising.
If you play in the 'correct' way (which I don't!!!) you are not going to get any pain.
This has to do with the western conception of work: when we feel pain we tend to feel satisfied, since we interpret our pain as a proof of the good job we have done.
Pain IS DIFFERENT from tiredness: if we do a work (any kind of work) using our body correctly we are not going to fell any pain at all; pain is the result of the misuse of our body.
There are new violin techniques aimed at helping the players playing in the most confortable way. Kato Havas's "New Approach" is just one of this techniques, together with Menuihin's and Dominique Hoppenot's ones.
So, the pain has not to be healed by exercices; it has to be prevented by playing in the correct way; and, quite unsurprisingly, the 'traditional classical technique' is not the most confortable one.
Then, if you play in the most confortable way you are going to play better, since all your muscles are relaxed.
So, basically, pain is bad, and it is a clear sign yuor body is working uncorrectlty.
# Posted on September 16th 2002 by nutsmuggler
Re: Physical exercising benefits and conflicts
Mention of misuse of the body when we play music reminded me of a great book about Alexander technique by Pedro de Alcantara called Indirect Procedures. It's clearly written, he's a cellist and also an Alexander teacher. I liked it so much I read it twice in a row!
I find the advice in the book hard to remember all the time, but whenever I do it, it makes me play better!
# Posted on September 22nd 2002 by fiddlefingers
Re: Physical exercising benefits and conflicts
In my experience, exercises have little value - you have to change the way you play. I found the Alexander Technique to be of great value. You can check it out at the main website at http://www.alexandertechnique.com
# Posted on February 26th 2003 by misterbob