I recently saw a session announcement that said “This is a Comhaltas session…”. Does this mean that the tunes all come from a CCE book or is there more to it? Is it an official designation with special rules or whatever?
I don't know about the US or Ireland, but here in the UK it wouldn't have to have special rules It would probably imply it was more suitable for all ages etc. than a regular pub session would be. And might be more suitable for various ability levels.
Sounds like a grumpy old man (even worse than me) would be attempting to lead it (but doing a better job than me), and it would comprise of some chubby geeky 2nd generation 20/30-somethings, then some 2nd/3rd generation 14 year olds on the fiddle, with their proud parents sitting nearby. Kerry reel would be in the repertoire, as would the Harvest Home. Out of such acorns have tall oaks grown.
I met Sonny Murray's son at a session in Ennis a few years ago and he told me his dad would like to meet me being I was a concertina player from the US. He gave me directions to where Sonny had what his son called a "Comhaltas session" on the following night. I didn't know what it was, but the next night I went anyway. It was a real eye-opener as far as understanding the differences between the way Irish people learn the music, and Yanks like my self who didn't even know the music existed until I was an adult.
When I walked through the door the first thing I saw was a gaggle of women sipping tea and chatting. I could hear music coming from just around the corner that was played at a very moderate but steady pace. I could hear one strong concertina with a fairly strong flute and fiddle, and an assortment of other instruments trailing behind. As I rounded the corner I saw Sonny and two other fellas leading a room full of mostly youngsters who were either playing or sipping sodas and munching on cakes and sweets. Among the youngsters sat one man playing banjo very quietly. After they finnished I asked the man playing banjo if he regularly comes to this session. He answered in a strong Southern US accent that it's the only place to go where you can learn the music. Turns out he had married an Irish girl, moved to Ireland, and became enamored with ITM.
What I ascertained is that Irish people generally learn ITM as children. If you get too old you might not feel comfortable going to sessions full of kids. I'd be interested to see how accurate my assumptions are with the people here who live in Ireland now. This was back in 1998 too I should point out. Some things might have changed since then regarding learning the music I suppose.
A Comhaltas meeting was my very first experience with ITM. A good friend took me to one that he had heard of. They were all very welcoming. I there gave up the recorder for the whistle, made great friends, learned tunes, learned about pub sessions, etc.
On the other hand, all met mostly in one big room. It was pretty noisey.
"gave up the recorder for the Whistle".
Don't turn your back on the Recorder feardearg, I play both and there is no problem. In amplified situations the Recorder is much easier to mic and despite popular session mythology can be played in a traditional style with all the usual ornamentation and more.
Its generally a session that would cater for younger people (usually no bar!!). I suppose its to give them a chance to play, meet people and to have fun. It would be organised by Comhaltas but under no circumstances would the music be dictated comhaltas officials. People often feel that that is the case. Obviously encouragement may be given depending on the age of the musicians and the number of musicians. They're good for beginners and improvers but don't expect a pulsating, adrenaline session, go to a pub!!!!!
Tea and cakes is the norm. One I went to in Kilglass, near Enniscrone, Sligo, a year or two back, attracted an allsorts group of players, who intimidated me at first, but as it turned out were a lovely bunch of heads. Strange thing to be having the tay and the cakes after few wee pinteens of the quair black shtuff
Bob, I'm not actually sure that we've heard from anyone involved in Comhaltas in the US -- someone once told me that they thought there were more adults in the beginner category in the US Comhaltas events. (I wouldn't know, we don't have a branch here.) Just a thought, that it might not all be tea and crumpets and kids.
I went to a Comhaltas session near Letterkenny, out of town in the middle of nowhere. It was just staggeringly good music. I know people like to slag off Comhaltas as a whole - with good reason - but I think the local sessions often do represent that grassroots desire to enjoy and pass on the music.
not being terribly familiar with Comhaltas, other that the web site, why do people "slag" off Comhaltas? Is it really just another commercial enterprise?
thing with comhaltas is that they are an organisation with very good intentions, namely trying to promote trad, and for that they shouldn't be knocked.
one of the common reasons which most people slag comhaltas is that they don't really have an in depth understanding of music. this is represented by their self proclaimed leader larry murphy who doesn't even try to play. he's a politition who's is simply good with words and getting goverment funding. if one uses analogy, it is frightning.... would you go to a restaurant run by a guy who can't cook?
on the other hand, their timire ceol seamas mac mathuna has collected a staggering volume of music which shows that they're not all bad.
what gets to me is the ideology promoted in their competitions which basically comes down to that there only are one or two styles (that'll win you a competion anyhow) namely clare/sligo. self expression and regional styles like donegal (which they see to be impure) are activly discouraged and competitions are judged using parameters familiar to classical music - we all remember the sheets... BUT they couldn't judge it by what trad is because, fundamentally it is the expression of the soul through the uses of technical devises. you can't judge peoples souls.
through the competitions which exist today they are creating manys a robotic musician, who themselves don't get as much enjoyment out of the music because they aren't encouraged to feel it, they only get to know the technical movements and music as a physical movement as opposed to a mental adventure.
well as friends of mine know i could go on all day... in a nutshell, it is an organisation run in part by many people who are out for non musicial gain and who's understanding of music is inhibited by this. most musicians however do have the heads to break free of this false rigidness.
comhaltas: it's a grand place to start but if you're still there in 20 years time, start asking some questions because it isn't a word i'd associate with the developement of your own, or music in general.
mt
...back home, I used to head down to Balducci's on the Cape Town Waterfront on the first Sunday after every payday, and sit there for hours reading the paper, drinking tea, throwing rocks at tourists and, yes, digging into stacks of hot blueberry crumpets slathered in mascarpone cheese and clotted cream. It was a good life.
So, before I start a rumpus here, Mairtin, are you REALLY trying to tell me that you believe that EVERYONE in Comhaltas doesn't "really have an in depth understanding of music"? I've loads of friends in Comhaltas, and that's rather insulting of you to say across the board.
And it strikes me that by saying you think the organization is producing "robotic musicians" who "don't get as much enjoyment out of the music because they aren't encouraged to feel it, they only get to know the technical movements and music as a physical movement as opposed to a mental adventure" - well, it strikes me that you're doing exactly what you're accusing Comhaltas as a group of individuals of doing - you're judging what they do by your own yardstick and not the yardstick of every single person who plays Irish trad music.
You're entitled to your opinion, boyo, but it doesn't mean I'm not going to call you on the less logical bits of it.
Zina, is Comhaltas then a club or organization that you join or belong to? My impression was that it is sort of an umbrella group for Trad that ran a bunch of competitions and published some books. Is it a pay membership or self appointed membership? or neither?
"I'm not actually sure that we've heard from anyone involved in Comhaltas in the US -- someone once told me that they thought there were more adults in the beginner category in the US Comhaltas events."
That stands to reason, in Ireland you're exposed to it as a child. If you don't take it up then you're less likely to take it up as an adult -- unless you move abroad where people are exposed as adults and can comfortably take it up at any age. This was one of the eye-opening things I took away from the opportunity to see one in action... in Ireland. I've never been to one anywhere else, but I would suppose my assumption is correct for anyone that grew up outside of Ireland away from any very strong Irish communities.
I think a good supplement to the criticism here of the CCE in Ireland would be this thread called, "Comhaltas Critics".
I have a friend from Ireland who came here a couple of times to stay for a few months, and he once asked me to do a gig with him for a local CCE event. When we were at the gig it was obvious that he was getting lots of positive attention from the membership and they were helping him out. At one point he leaned over to me and said he would never do gigs like this for the CCE where he's from in Ireland. He said it's more about your political connections there, whereas here they aren't anything like that. He also echoed some of the points Harry made in that discussion I posted above.
CCE hosts lessons in the Boston area, and other musical events, I think the head guy's name is Larry Reynolds, and at least in our neck of the woods, they do good work.
I do, however, see why a lot of people have trouble with the whole competition thing, whether it is instruments or dance. I have seen little kids puking before they go onstage to dance because they are so nervous, in my mind, at that point it has stopped being fun. If the good part of competition, ie desire to excell and opportunities to develop new skills, could be captured, without the downside, that would be a wonderful thing. But unfortunately, along with the good comes some bad.
What is a "Comhaltas session"?
What is a "Comhaltas session"?
I recently saw a session announcement that said “This is a Comhaltas session…”. Does this mean that the tunes all come from a CCE book or is there more to it? Is it an official designation with special rules or whatever?
# Posted on January 6th 2006 by Bob himself
Re: What is a "Comhaltas session"?
I don't know about the US or Ireland, but here in the UK it wouldn't have to have special rules
It would probably imply it was more suitable for all ages etc. than a regular pub session would be. And might be more suitable for various ability levels.
# Posted on January 7th 2006 by Just a person
Re: What is a "Comhaltas session"?
was that last bit a hint, John? It was, wasn't it. I don't take hints, feller. I take bribes.
# Posted on January 7th 2006 by Q
Re: What is a "Comhaltas session"?
# Posted on January 7th 2006 by Q
Re: What is a "Comhaltas session"?
It means you are more likely to get free tea and sandwiches
# Posted on January 7th 2006 by Conán McDonnell
Re: What is a "Comhaltas session"?
Maybe even medjool dates stuffed with marscapone?
# Posted on January 7th 2006 by Just a person
Re: What is a "Comhaltas session"?
LOL! You mean like nan used to make?
# Posted on January 7th 2006 by Conán McDonnell
Re: What is a "Comhaltas session"?
Nan bread?
# Posted on January 7th 2006 by Just a person
Re: What is a "Comhaltas session"?
Sounds like a grumpy old man (even worse than me) would be attempting to lead it (but doing a better job than me), and it would comprise of some chubby geeky 2nd generation 20/30-somethings, then some 2nd/3rd generation 14 year olds on the fiddle, with their proud parents sitting nearby. Kerry reel would be in the repertoire, as would the Harvest Home. Out of such acorns have tall oaks grown.
# Posted on January 7th 2006 by Rudall the time
Re: What is a "Comhaltas session"?
I met Sonny Murray's son at a session in Ennis a few years ago and he told me his dad would like to meet me being I was a concertina player from the US. He gave me directions to where Sonny had what his son called a "Comhaltas session" on the following night. I didn't know what it was, but the next night I went anyway. It was a real eye-opener as far as understanding the differences between the way Irish people learn the music, and Yanks like my self who didn't even know the music existed until I was an adult.
When I walked through the door the first thing I saw was a gaggle of women sipping tea and chatting. I could hear music coming from just around the corner that was played at a very moderate but steady pace. I could hear one strong concertina with a fairly strong flute and fiddle, and an assortment of other instruments trailing behind. As I rounded the corner I saw Sonny and two other fellas leading a room full of mostly youngsters who were either playing or sipping sodas and munching on cakes and sweets. Among the youngsters sat one man playing banjo very quietly. After they finnished I asked the man playing banjo if he regularly comes to this session. He answered in a strong Southern US accent that it's the only place to go where you can learn the music. Turns out he had married an Irish girl, moved to Ireland, and became enamored with ITM.
What I ascertained is that Irish people generally learn ITM as children. If you get too old you might not feel comfortable going to sessions full of kids. I'd be interested to see how accurate my assumptions are with the people here who live in Ireland now. This was back in 1998 too I should point out. Some things might have changed since then regarding learning the music I suppose.
# Posted on January 7th 2006 by Phantom Button
Re: What is a "Comhaltas session"?
Now Jack, is it possible to get a "gaggle" of men at such gatherings?
:-}
But, that's been much my experience, but maybe not with such notable personna.
# Posted on January 7th 2006 by Rudall the time
Re: What is a "Comhaltas session"?
A Comhaltas meeting was my very first experience with ITM. A good friend took me to one that he had heard of. They were all very welcoming. I there gave up the recorder for the whistle, made great friends, learned tunes, learned about pub sessions, etc.
On the other hand, all met mostly in one big room. It was pretty noisey.
Great Snacks.
# Posted on January 7th 2006 by feardearg
Re: What is a "Comhaltas session"?
"gave up the recorder for the Whistle".
Don't turn your back on the Recorder feardearg, I play both and there is no problem. In amplified situations the Recorder is much easier to mic and despite popular session mythology can be played in a traditional style with all the usual ornamentation and more.
PP
# Posted on January 7th 2006 by Pied Piper
Re: What is a "Comhaltas session"?
Its generally a session that would cater for younger people (usually no bar!!). I suppose its to give them a chance to play, meet people and to have fun. It would be organised by Comhaltas but under no circumstances would the music be dictated comhaltas officials. People often feel that that is the case. Obviously encouragement may be given depending on the age of the musicians and the number of musicians. They're good for beginners and improvers but don't expect a pulsating, adrenaline session, go to a pub!!!!!
# Posted on January 7th 2006 by Roger O' Miller
Re: What is a "Comhaltas session"?
I gave up the recorder for ITM. I figured I would only get confused at higher speeds if I tried to play the same tunes on both instruments.
But I still love the recorder. Been playing for 30 years! Sometimes you just need the chromatic! I like playing hymns on it. Very mellow.
Whistle-pub, Recorder-church!
# Posted on January 8th 2006 by feardearg
Re: What is a "Comhaltas session"?
Tea and cakes is the norm. One I went to in Kilglass, near Enniscrone, Sligo, a year or two back, attracted an allsorts group of players, who intimidated me at first, but as it turned out were a lovely bunch of heads. Strange thing to be having the tay and the cakes after few wee pinteens of the quair black shtuff
# Posted on January 8th 2006 by Rudall the time
Re: What is a "Comhaltas session"?
"I gave up the recorder for ITM."
Listen to How to Change a Flat Tire. Front Hall Records. Don't know it they're still in print or not.
"go to a pub!!!!!"
No thank you.
KFG
# Posted on January 8th 2006 by KFG
Re: What is a "Comhaltas session"? - a direct answer.
like Jazz, only definable.
(Excuse my Audacity)
mt.
# Posted on January 8th 2006 by martin t
Re: What is a "Comhaltas session"?
Thanks for the responses. I think I'm getting the picture.
BTW, I kinda like Irish tunes on the recorder, too. I've only done it a little, but I thought it had possibilities.
# Posted on January 8th 2006 by Bob himself
Re: What is a "Comhaltas session"?
Bob, I'm not actually sure that we've heard from anyone involved in Comhaltas in the US -- someone once told me that they thought there were more adults in the beginner category in the US Comhaltas events. (I wouldn't know, we don't have a branch here.) Just a thought, that it might not all be tea and crumpets and kids.
# Posted on January 8th 2006 by Zina Lee
Re: What is a "Comhaltas session"?
I've heard Q likes crumpets.
# Posted on January 8th 2006 by Just a person
Re: What is a "Comhaltas session"?
I went to a Comhaltas session near Letterkenny, out of town in the middle of nowhere. It was just staggeringly good music. I know people like to slag off Comhaltas as a whole - with good reason - but I think the local sessions often do represent that grassroots desire to enjoy and pass on the music.
# Posted on January 8th 2006 by Just a person
Re: What is a "Comhaltas session"?
It's true. I often dream about stacks of hot blueberry crumpets slathered with mascarpone cheese and clotted cream.
# Posted on January 8th 2006 by Q
Re: What is a "Comhaltas session"?
not being terribly familiar with Comhaltas, other that the web site, why do people "slag" off Comhaltas? Is it really just another commercial enterprise?
# Posted on January 8th 2006 by Sunnybear
Why people slag of comhaltas
thing with comhaltas is that they are an organisation with very good intentions, namely trying to promote trad, and for that they shouldn't be knocked.
one of the common reasons which most people slag comhaltas is that they don't really have an in depth understanding of music. this is represented by their self proclaimed leader larry murphy who doesn't even try to play. he's a politition who's is simply good with words and getting goverment funding. if one uses analogy, it is frightning.... would you go to a restaurant run by a guy who can't cook?
on the other hand, their timire ceol seamas mac mathuna has collected a staggering volume of music which shows that they're not all bad.
what gets to me is the ideology promoted in their competitions which basically comes down to that there only are one or two styles (that'll win you a competion anyhow) namely clare/sligo. self expression and regional styles like donegal (which they see to be impure) are activly discouraged and competitions are judged using parameters familiar to classical music - we all remember the sheets... BUT they couldn't judge it by what trad is because, fundamentally it is the expression of the soul through the uses of technical devises. you can't judge peoples souls.
through the competitions which exist today they are creating manys a robotic musician, who themselves don't get as much enjoyment out of the music because they aren't encouraged to feel it, they only get to know the technical movements and music as a physical movement as opposed to a mental adventure.
well as friends of mine know i could go on all day... in a nutshell, it is an organisation run in part by many people who are out for non musicial gain and who's understanding of music is inhibited by this. most musicians however do have the heads to break free of this false rigidness.
comhaltas: it's a grand place to start but if you're still there in 20 years time, start asking some questions because it isn't a word i'd associate with the developement of your own, or music in general.
mt
# Posted on January 8th 2006 by martin t
Re: What is a "Comhaltas session"?
I'll have what Q's having
# Posted on January 8th 2006 by Just a person
Re: What is a "Comhaltas session"?
Máirtín - you might say that, I couldn't possibly comment
# Posted on January 8th 2006 by Just a person
Re: What is a "Comhaltas session"?
If he's having blueberry crumpets, then I will too!
# Posted on January 8th 2006 by Zina Lee
Re: What is a "Comhaltas session"?
Oh if only I were...
...back home, I used to head down to Balducci's on the Cape Town Waterfront on the first Sunday after every payday, and sit there for hours reading the paper, drinking tea, throwing rocks at tourists and, yes, digging into stacks of hot blueberry crumpets slathered in mascarpone cheese and clotted cream. It was a good life.
# Posted on January 8th 2006 by Q
Hmmmmm
So, before I start a rumpus here, Mairtin, are you REALLY trying to tell me that you believe that EVERYONE in Comhaltas doesn't "really have an in depth understanding of music"? I've loads of friends in Comhaltas, and that's rather insulting of you to say across the board.
And it strikes me that by saying you think the organization is producing "robotic musicians" who "don't get as much enjoyment out of the music because they aren't encouraged to feel it, they only get to know the technical movements and music as a physical movement as opposed to a mental adventure" - well, it strikes me that you're doing exactly what you're accusing Comhaltas as a group of individuals of doing - you're judging what they do by your own yardstick and not the yardstick of every single person who plays Irish trad music.
You're entitled to your opinion, boyo, but it doesn't mean I'm not going to call you on the less logical bits of it.
# Posted on January 8th 2006 by Zina Lee
Re: What is a "Comhaltas session"?
Zina, is Comhaltas then a club or organization that you join or belong to? My impression was that it is sort of an umbrella group for Trad that ran a bunch of competitions and published some books. Is it a pay membership or self appointed membership? or neither?
# Posted on January 8th 2006 by Sunnybear
Re: What is a "Comhaltas session"?
http://www.comhaltas.com/
# Posted on January 8th 2006 by Zina Lee
Re: What is a "Comhaltas session"?
"I'm not actually sure that we've heard from anyone involved in Comhaltas in the US -- someone once told me that they thought there were more adults in the beginner category in the US Comhaltas events."
That stands to reason, in Ireland you're exposed to it as a child. If you don't take it up then you're less likely to take it up as an adult -- unless you move abroad where people are exposed as adults and can comfortably take it up at any age. This was one of the eye-opening things I took away from the opportunity to see one in action... in Ireland. I've never been to one anywhere else, but I would suppose my assumption is correct for anyone that grew up outside of Ireland away from any very strong Irish communities.
I think a good supplement to the criticism here of the CCE in Ireland would be this thread called, "Comhaltas Critics".
http://thesession.org/discussions/display.php/6697/
I have a friend from Ireland who came here a couple of times to stay for a few months, and he once asked me to do a gig with him for a local CCE event. When we were at the gig it was obvious that he was getting lots of positive attention from the membership and they were helping him out. At one point he leaned over to me and said he would never do gigs like this for the CCE where he's from in Ireland. He said it's more about your political connections there, whereas here they aren't anything like that. He also echoed some of the points Harry made in that discussion I posted above.
# Posted on January 9th 2006 by Phantom Button
Re: What is a "Comhaltas session"?
CCE hosts lessons in the Boston area, and other musical events, I think the head guy's name is Larry Reynolds, and at least in our neck of the woods, they do good work.
I do, however, see why a lot of people have trouble with the whole competition thing, whether it is instruments or dance. I have seen little kids puking before they go onstage to dance because they are so nervous, in my mind, at that point it has stopped being fun. If the good part of competition, ie desire to excell and opportunities to develop new skills, could be captured, without the downside, that would be a wonderful thing. But unfortunately, along with the good comes some bad.
# Posted on January 9th 2006 by AlBrown