Does anyone know if the tune Planxty Noel Hill played by the Pogues on an EP in the mid-80's is a traditional tune or if it was written by them. If it's traditional...anyone have the music?
I've never heard this tune, but I've heard of it. Noel Hill slagged the Pogues off for them giving , in his opinion, a bad image of Irish music - the rowdy, drunken Paddy caricature, and they are supposed to have written a "planxty"tune with his name basically to say "F*** you".
It's not a traditional tune, and for what it's worth, I'm with Noel Hill on this one.
Michael must know another Noel Hill. The one I know is the master concertina player, a font of knowledege on tunes musicians, the tradition, has played with almost every leading legend of the last 50 years, and puts on a show which oozes with excitment, exhilaration and sheer range of emotions.His international following suggests ther must be a lot of us fools out there. There's probable only a handful of solo performers who can captivate like he does.
What do you do to entertain people so well, Michael?
Michael - I've seen Noel in concert. Never did I imagine 3 straight hours of solo concertina music would be so incredibly engrossing. As a player and a performer Noel is, in my opinion, nothing short of stupendous.
Best,
Chris
P.S. - His albums with Tony McMahon are also superb.
P.P.S. - I play flute, not concertina.
I always thought Noel Hill was a good guy -- we stayed at the same B&B during Willie Week and had breakfast together a couple of times. He might be a bit on the musically conservative side for my taste, but he's a great player. That "In Knocknagree" record would be in my top 10, and like Chris, I'm primarily a flute player.
I used to be a big Pogues fan as well, but I can't imagine sharing my breakfast with Shane McGowan. Just thinking about it is giving me the willies.
I'm just waiting for Noel or Shane to log on and post their piece of mind....
I've not heard the Pogues recording mentioned above, but I know a tune variously called The Noel Hills, or Noel Hill's and wonder if it could be what Grack is looking for. First half sounds like:
Reel
K:D maj
|:D2 FA DAFA|dfed cABc|d2 cA (3Bcd AF|GBAF GFEF|D2 FA DAFA|dfed cABc|d2 cA (3Bcd AF|GBAG FD D2:|
Grack, if this is the one you're looking for, let me know and I'll post it to the tune section.
Hey, Michael, this is rather like stepping on someone's foot on purpose and then saying "oh dear, there i go again, i'm always stepping on people's feet!", isn't it?
Actually, I liked an occasional Pogues listen from before I started playing the music -- but I never thought of it as Irish music, somehow. And certainly not trad Irish music!
All of us here know the merits of Noel Hill, but I don't think the Pogues should be written off completely. I think Shane McGowan has written some really good songs; White City, Albert Bridge & A Pair of Brown Eyes to name a very few. The funny thing about the "drunken paddy" stereotype is that they are all English, more like black face vaudeville when I think about it.
I remember walking into a small arts & crafts type store here in Denver waaay back when and hearing a band on their CD player. "Who's that!?" I asked, because I really liked their sound -- sort of a folk-tinged garage band. "A band called the Pogues," was the answer. I think I've still got an album or two around here somewheres or other.
'red roses';'rum,sodomy and the lash';'if i should fall from grace with god' are all great albums with good songs and energetic playing.
i dare anyone not to be moved by at least one of mcgowan's songs and the way he puts his own lyrics across.
the noel hill and tony linnane album is a great album.i dare anyone not to be moved by at least...- you get the picture.
they should both have a planxty written for them! neither appears to be not so much green as cabbage-looking...
i'm not sure how mcgowan would react to being described as english,brad!
but i've always admired him for his teeth - such a change from the osmonds,would n't you say?
Noel Hill and Tony Linnane's album is brilliant as are the two albums with Noel and Tony McMahon! Some of the best trad albums ever recorded. But sometimes, late at night when the drink is upon me and I couldnt play even if I wanted to then I quite like the pogues ) Ptramigan - Dont know about you but I partly like this site because I can have a laugh as well as talk about music.......do you think there is anything wrong with that?
I met Shane one time - he's a time bomb. You never knew if was going to laugh or kick your teeth in. He asked for the Kesh Jig, but only the A-Part & he made up lyrics as he went along. After we were done he said, "that's a great one, play it again" coming from anyone else I wouldn't have, but it was good fun.
.Wasn't 'If I should fall from the Grace of God' voted one of the top albums of the last 20 years by Rolling Stone magazine? It's simply brilliant. No road trip is complete without it!
I'd be afraid to meet Shane. Just reading "A Drink With Shane McGowen" was a scary enough experience. I kept asking myself, "how is it that he's still alive??". Course, he probably made up a bunch of it. I couldn't really tell what to believe.
I don't appologize for metaphorically stepping on toes. Just look at the reaction. Great. You need it
Maybe the piont I was trying to make was that if Noel Hill thinks diddly music needs defending from the likes of the pogues, He must be sad, paranoid and insular.
I love the way this discussion turned arround to defending Shane McGowan. Like he needs it?
Let's have more defending poor old Noel, he really doese need it
Michael, I think you must be one of Conán's "mixers", yes? Just likes to fight to fight? Enjoys a spot of trouble? It's just as well, really, that there's so many people who are willing to partake in your winding ups, because otherwise we'd all just have to roll our eyes at you and ignore most of what you have to say -- it's what I've begun doing, anyway.
Personally, I wasn't defending either Mr. Hill nor Mr. McGowan. I like the music of the Pogues, and I don't know Mr. Hill, have never met him, to know he's boring. But I am starting to get bored with your version of having fun, Michael.
Ooooh my toootsies.
It's that Comholtas thing (or however you spell it).
All this precious pride and forcing little kids to play tin whistles and dance in clogs and those endless competitions where they all swear that it's not the winning that matters but people get medals all the same and "All Ireland titles" and "the tradition" thing where just 'cause it's old it's good and and and and ....
... and I know I can be a boring git about this, but these tunes are fun and I'm determined to keep them that way.
Heh. I'm glad you've a sense of humor, Michael, I just think sometimes taking things a wee bit more seriously can keep the peace a bit better. (As can taking things a wee bit less seriously. *grin*) Thank you for explaining yourself. And -- well, we've gone round and round about that one, Michael.
I can certainly understand not wanting to do the whole competition thing yourself (and here I usually point out that I no longer compete because I really don't get anything out of it anymore). But I also think that there's a great deal of good to be gotten out of the process, if you've the right mindset and personality for it.
But let's not get into another harrowing discussion about it. Last time we had this discussion, I believe we left it at:
1) Some people think competitions are an awful idea.
2) Some people think competitions aren't an awful idea.
3) It's not a good thing to run people down on either side. If people get worth out of it, great. If they don't, great.
4) We're not going to change anyone's mind about it by insulting them, either, so let's not bother.
"Fun", as with all definitions of epheremal concepts, changes for each person.
Never heard this song/tune before. Shane owns a pub in North London called Durty McNelly's. Might be forced to do some research up there - any excuse for a pint (like I need one). Don't know how widely known this is but McGowan was born in London and even went to public school - one of those famous ones like Eton or Harrow. I wouldn't say he's done any harm to the image of Irish music, only to the image of Shane McGowan. More power to him, I say.
Planxty Noel Hill
Planxty Noel Hill
Does anyone know if the tune Planxty Noel Hill played by the Pogues on an EP in the mid-80's is a traditional tune or if it was written by them. If it's traditional...anyone have the music?
# Posted on September 11th 2002 by Grack
Re: Planxty Noel Hill
I've never heard this tune, but I've heard of it. Noel Hill slagged the Pogues off for them giving , in his opinion, a bad image of Irish music - the rowdy, drunken Paddy caricature, and they are supposed to have written a "planxty"tune with his name basically to say "F*** you".
It's not a traditional tune, and for what it's worth, I'm with Noel Hill on this one.
# Posted on September 12th 2002 by Kenny
Re: Planxty Noel Hill
Have you ever seen Noel Hill? What a boring git.
I'm not saying the pogues are any good, the're rubbish. But at least the're a bit of a laugh
# Posted on September 12th 2002 by llig leahcim
Re: Planxty Noel Hill
Michael must know another Noel Hill. The one I know is the master concertina player, a font of knowledege on tunes musicians, the tradition, has played with almost every leading legend of the last 50 years, and puts on a show which oozes with excitment, exhilaration and sheer range of emotions.His international following suggests ther must be a lot of us fools out there. There's probable only a handful of solo performers who can captivate like he does.
What do you do to entertain people so well, Michael?
# Posted on September 12th 2002 by fego
Re: Planxty Noel Hill
Michael - I've seen Noel in concert. Never did I imagine 3 straight hours of solo concertina music would be so incredibly engrossing. As a player and a performer Noel is, in my opinion, nothing short of stupendous.
Best,
Chris
P.S. - His albums with Tony McMahon are also superb.
P.P.S. - I play flute, not concertina.
# Posted on September 12th 2002 by ChrisLaughlin
Re: Planxty Noel Hill
I always thought Noel Hill was a good guy -- we stayed at the same B&B during Willie Week and had breakfast together a couple of times. He might be a bit on the musically conservative side for my taste, but he's a great player. That "In Knocknagree" record would be in my top 10, and like Chris, I'm primarily a flute player.
I used to be a big Pogues fan as well, but I can't imagine sharing my breakfast with Shane McGowan. Just thinking about it is giving me the willies.
Greg
# Posted on September 12th 2002 by Gzeg
Re: Planxty Noel Hill
Oh dear,
there I go again, winding youze guys up. Sorry
# Posted on September 12th 2002 by llig leahcim
Re: Planxty Noel Hill
I'm just waiting for Noel or Shane to log on and post their piece of mind....
I've not heard the Pogues recording mentioned above, but I know a tune variously called The Noel Hills, or Noel Hill's and wonder if it could be what Grack is looking for. First half sounds like:
Reel
K:D maj
|:D2 FA DAFA|dfed cABc|d2 cA (3Bcd AF|GBAF GFEF|D2 FA DAFA|dfed cABc|d2 cA (3Bcd AF|GBAG FD D2:|
Grack, if this is the one you're looking for, let me know and I'll post it to the tune section.
# Posted on September 12th 2002 by Will Harmon
Re: Planxty Noel Hill
Hey, Michael, this is rather like stepping on someone's foot on purpose and then saying "oh dear, there i go again, i'm always stepping on people's feet!", isn't it?
# Posted on September 12th 2002 by glauber
Re: Planxty Noel Hill
Michael, from your reply on the 12th, I'd say your on the wrong site.
Try "The Comedian.com".
You go out for a laugh, & leave the rest of us to go out for good music.
# Posted on September 12th 2002 by Ptarmigan
Re: Planxty Noel Hill
Actually, I liked an occasional Pogues listen from before I started playing the music -- but I never thought of it as Irish music, somehow. And certainly not trad Irish music!
Zina
# Posted on September 12th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Planxty Noel Hill
All of us here know the merits of Noel Hill, but I don't think the Pogues should be written off completely. I think Shane McGowan has written some really good songs; White City, Albert Bridge & A Pair of Brown Eyes to name a very few. The funny thing about the "drunken paddy" stereotype is that they are all English, more like black face vaudeville when I think about it.
# Posted on September 12th 2002 by Mad Baloney
Re: Planxty Noel Hill
I remember walking into a small arts & crafts type store here in Denver waaay back when and hearing a band on their CD player. "Who's that!?" I asked, because I really liked their sound -- sort of a folk-tinged garage band. "A band called the Pogues," was the answer. I think I've still got an album or two around here somewheres or other.
Zina
# Posted on September 12th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Planxty Noel Hill
'red roses';'rum,sodomy and the lash';'if i should fall from grace with god' are all great albums with good songs and energetic playing.
i dare anyone not to be moved by at least one of mcgowan's songs and the way he puts his own lyrics across.
the noel hill and tony linnane album is a great album.i dare anyone not to be moved by at least...- you get the picture.
they should both have a planxty written for them! neither appears to be not so much green as cabbage-looking...
i'm not sure how mcgowan would react to being described as english,brad!
but i've always admired him for his teeth - such a change from the osmonds,would n't you say?
# Posted on September 12th 2002 by biggus dave
Re: Planxty Noel Hill
Noel Hill and Tony Linnane's album is brilliant as are the two albums with Noel and Tony McMahon! Some of the best trad albums ever recorded. But sometimes, late at night when the drink is upon me and I couldnt play even if I wanted to then I quite like the pogues
) Ptramigan - Dont know about you but I partly like this site because I can have a laugh as well as talk about music.......do you think there is anything wrong with that?
# Posted on September 13th 2002 by bb
Re: Planxty Noel Hill
Yep, I love all three of those Pogues albums, too, bigdave. I still listen to them, right along with Paddy Canny and Michael Gorman and all the rest.
)
Michael's "boring git" comment cracked *me* up, anyway. Course, now I'll go out and try to find a Noel Hill cd just to hear for myself
# Posted on September 13th 2002 by soft black stars
Re: Planxty Noel Hill
I met Shane one time - he's a time bomb. You never knew if was going to laugh or kick your teeth in. He asked for the Kesh Jig, but only the A-Part & he made up lyrics as he went along. After we were done he said, "that's a great one, play it again" coming from anyone else I wouldn't have, but it was good fun.
# Posted on September 13th 2002 by Mad Baloney
Re: Planxty Noel Hill
.Wasn't 'If I should fall from the Grace of God' voted one of the top albums of the last 20 years by Rolling Stone magazine? It's simply brilliant. No road trip is complete without it!
# Posted on September 13th 2002 by Caoimghgin
Re: Planxty Noel Hill
I'd be afraid to meet Shane. Just reading "A Drink With Shane McGowen" was a scary enough experience. I kept asking myself, "how is it that he's still alive??". Course, he probably made up a bunch of it. I couldn't really tell what to believe.
# Posted on September 13th 2002 by soft black stars
Re: Planxty Noel Hill
I don't appologize for metaphorically stepping on toes. Just look at the reaction. Great. You need it
Maybe the piont I was trying to make was that if Noel Hill thinks diddly music needs defending from the likes of the pogues, He must be sad, paranoid and insular.
I love the way this discussion turned arround to defending Shane McGowan. Like he needs it?
Let's have more defending poor old Noel, he really doese need it
# Posted on September 13th 2002 by llig leahcim
Re: Planxty Noel Hill
We don't have enough information here - Michael Gill, please tell us all how you came to the conclusion that Noel Hill ia a "Boring Git".
# Posted on September 13th 2002 by Kenny
Re: Planxty Noel Hill
Actually, Michael Gill is a boring git. Ooops, here i go again, stepping on people's feet!
# Posted on September 13th 2002 by glauber
Re: Planxty Noel Hill
Michael, I think you must be one of Conán's "mixers", yes? Just likes to fight to fight? Enjoys a spot of trouble? It's just as well, really, that there's so many people who are willing to partake in your winding ups, because otherwise we'd all just have to roll our eyes at you and ignore most of what you have to say -- it's what I've begun doing, anyway.
Personally, I wasn't defending either Mr. Hill nor Mr. McGowan. I like the music of the Pogues, and I don't know Mr. Hill, have never met him, to know he's boring. But I am starting to get bored with your version of having fun, Michael.
Zina
# Posted on September 13th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Planxty Noel Hill
Ooooh my toootsies.
It's that Comholtas thing (or however you spell it).
All this precious pride and forcing little kids to play tin whistles and dance in clogs and those endless competitions where they all swear that it's not the winning that matters but people get medals all the same and "All Ireland titles" and "the tradition" thing where just 'cause it's old it's good and and and and ....
... and I know I can be a boring git about this, but these tunes are fun and I'm determined to keep them that way.
# Posted on September 13th 2002 by llig leahcim
Re: Planxty Noel Hill
Heh. I'm glad you've a sense of humor, Michael, I just think sometimes taking things a wee bit more seriously can keep the peace a bit better. (As can taking things a wee bit less seriously. *grin*) Thank you for explaining yourself. And -- well, we've gone round and round about that one, Michael.
I can certainly understand not wanting to do the whole competition thing yourself (and here I usually point out that I no longer compete because I really don't get anything out of it anymore). But I also think that there's a great deal of good to be gotten out of the process, if you've the right mindset and personality for it.
But let's not get into another harrowing discussion about it. Last time we had this discussion, I believe we left it at:
1) Some people think competitions are an awful idea.
2) Some people think competitions aren't an awful idea.
3) It's not a good thing to run people down on either side. If people get worth out of it, great. If they don't, great.
4) We're not going to change anyone's mind about it by insulting them, either, so let's not bother.
"Fun", as with all definitions of epheremal concepts, changes for each person.
Zina
# Posted on September 13th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Planxty Noel Hill
That's that then
# Posted on September 13th 2002 by llig leahcim
Re: Planxty Noel Hill
And still no report on the mystery tune. Damn!
# Posted on September 13th 2002 by Caoimghgin
Re: Planxty Noel Hill
Never heard this song/tune before. Shane owns a pub in North London called Durty McNelly's. Might be forced to do some research up there - any excuse for a pint (like I need one). Don't know how widely known this is but McGowan was born in London and even went to public school - one of those famous ones like Eton or Harrow. I wouldn't say he's done any harm to the image of Irish music, only to the image of Shane McGowan. More power to him, I say.
# Posted on September 15th 2002 by Conán McDonnell
Pub name
Actually, just realised that's completely wrong. Got mixed up with Amsterdam... his pub is called Filthy McNasty's!!
# Posted on September 15th 2002 by Conán McDonnell
Re: Planxty Noel Hill
It's on the Poguetry in Motion EP, if that helps.
Zina
# Posted on September 15th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Planxty Noel Hill
Noel Hill's music & Noel Hill the man -- two completely different stories.
# Posted on April 20th 2004 by Phantom Button