As stated in other threads, except for its fussiness about humidity, my Martin 000M is a very good guitar for the money. Although, people with experience playing different guitars tell me that my particular guitar is one of those that stands out from others of its type and make--it just happened to roll off the assembly line with everything right. Because of the smaller body, it doesn't have a big bass sound, but its treble end is nice and bright.
My brother who runs a large music store, and handles purchasing for the chain, however, recommends Taylor guitars over Martins, he says the quality is more consistent.
In the end, however, a lot has to do with YOU, so try out as many instruments as you can.
You are likely to get a lot of replies along the lines of "my guitar is the best"and I won't disappoint - at least try an OM - listen to Chris Newman if you want to hear what can sound like.
I would definitely agree with the advice to try as many instruments as you can.
My personal preference in the Martins has to be the D28, although the D35 is fine as well - but I do like a nice Dreadnought! VERY important to try as many as you can, until you find "the one". There are some duff Martins out there, in particular I know of at least one D28 which was on sale very cheaply in a musci store her in Dublin. I thought all my Christmases had come at once, until I tried it out. It sounded like an entry-level guitar, no tone, no depth.
Taylor guitars are becoming very highly-prized, and are very high quality, but a Martin is a Martin (if it's a good one) and will have that unique sound that is so sought-after.
i have an 0-18 which i dearly love for it's voice and comfortable size, but for playing out and in noisy sessions i'd take a good D-18 every time, even over the D-28, they're better balanced if you want to play melody as well as backup.
After trying for years to find a guitar for both fingerpicking and flatpicking, I gave up. For fingerstyle, I need a wide string spacing; for flatpicking I need it narrow. For me, the compromise is always more “worst of both” than “best of both”. If I were forced into a compromise, though, I’d probably go with an OM-whatever. Probably mahogany.
I'm with Bob, which is why in that other thread I was talking about shopping for a dedicated fingerpicking guitar. Personally my choice would be a mahagany or walnut 00, but I might well end up with a 000.
If I had my druthers I'd probably add a jumbo dedicated to open tunings. Maple.
The only thing I've ever found Ds to be particularly good at is for unamplified street performing and band backing, which, oddly enough, is what they were developed for in the first place. Go figure. That describes a session reasonably well enough if all you wanted to do was back.
I think my M model, is the best dual purpose guitar if I only had to have one. It's shaped like an OM or 000 but bigger, maybe this is what some call mini jumbo. It's thinner than a jumbo and small on the bottom end with a deep waist and a little wider than a D at the widest part. Mine is made by Ed Foley in Andover NJ, but I think Martin makes one too, they are kind of not the usual thing people want so you rarely see them in stores.
Paul DeGrae plays an old martin M. We were going on last summer at the Catskills about the wonderfulness of Ms, we were both surprised someone else had one.
The OM though is also great for both. The M just has more chops for backing up, but has a more balanced tone than a D and is easier at least for me to hold to fingerpick.
Eliot.....what praytell is the one you have to sell, I have GAS so they say. On second thought....NO!!!! Don't tell me, LOL!
I'm not crazy about Martins in general (probably stemming from a time when 'if it ain't a Martin, it's sh*te' was the dominant feeling), but I have played a couple of OM28v's that were just wonderful, and that's the Martin that I'd like to have, if I were to like to have one. <GG>
I confess a certain weakness for vintage D-18s, too, but I think the subject of 'vintage' models is for another time... <GG>
Paul DeGrae's M and Randal Bays' J model are splendid, too.
I wouldn't buy another Martin myself. I got a C00016 in '93 - beautiful guitar, gorgeous sound - I was in love with it. Unfortunately the finish started to peel off about 6 years later. And I mean REALLY peel - air bubbles started to appear in the finish, then grow, then eventually crack and flake. I paid $3000 for my guitar - refinishing it would cost $2000.
The official Martin luthier in my town told me Martin was trying a new sealant that year, and that what was happening to my beautiful guitar was a manufacturing defect. We both wrote to Martin to see if they would pay for the refinishing, they said no go, since my 3-year warranty had expired.
Bottom line is, I paid that kind of money for that kind of guitar based on Martin's reputation as a maker of guitars that only improve with age, if adequately cared for. Martin doesn't give a fiddler's fart about that reputation any more, IMO, since my 10 year old guitar is an embarassment to the company and regularly exposed to the public eye.
And my $3000 investment was pretty much flushed down the toilet due to my mistaken impression of the quality and longevity of their product.
If you want to spend that kind of money, find a luthier who lovingly crafts everything by hand and cares about his / her work and reputation. You'll get much better service from them, and they'll be more likely to accept responsibility for their errors.
By the way, if you can find a vintage Martin, go for it. They used to deserve their reputation - that's how I got fooled. My dad was still raving and daydreaming about his D28 for decades after he parted with it, as if it were Shangri-la.
Kerri, your warranty was only three years? I thought the Martin warranty was always “lifetime” (your lifetime).
My single Martin warranty experience was very different. The neck had to be reset, but they also replaced some worn frets that weren’t really covered under the warranty. And they didn’t even ask for documentation. BUT, that was thirty years ago under the previous generation of ownership. It’s a different company now.
Martin can still make fabulous guitars. They’re just inconsistent. I don’t know what the problem is. Maybe the master luthiers are stretched too thin to supervise everything. It’s a shame.
I think the "lifetime" part refers to manufacturing defects. They don't consider anything to do with "finish" to be a manufacturing defect since it's possible for the finish to be damaged by contact with a guitar strap, and there's a clear warning about this in the documentation you get with the guitar (which is why I never even owned a strap).
Basically that means a manufacturing defect is whatever they say it is, and my experience is that they aren't willing to err on the side of caution to maintain their reputation as a reliable guitar maker.
But I mean, the finish is FALLING OFF THE GUITAR. All over. Everywhere. I've never even heard of that happening at all, let alone happening as a result of not following the instructions in the little booklet. Apparently though, it was common enough that the Martin luthier had seen it a few times with this particular vintage and knew it was a result of defective sealant (the first layer of varnish).
Bob, I'm guessing 30 years ago was a completely different story than today. Which is why I say, yes, buy a vintage Martin if you can find one, DON'T buy a new Martin. There's a good chance that what happened to me could happen to you, and if it does, you're on your own.
Also, now that I think of it, I'm pretty sure Martin does not offer a lifetime guarantee, even against manufacturing defects. I'd be careful about assuming this. Might be a thing of the past.
I'm a Martin guy. I just like the sound. My all mohagany D-15 has seved me well and It's a decent all-solid wod guitar for not a lot of change. I like the tight focused sound of it especially when playing dropped-d back-up. Having said that I have tried them all, well a lot of 'em anyway, and I must say that some of the Taylor guitars I've tried blew my mind in comparison to the Martins FOR FLAT PICKING. The sound just pop's out. I'd concur with the above, try as many as you can. Your guitar will find you.
I am not crazy about Martins in general. You have to go to a shop that has a lot of them and try each one, the same model, same wood can sound sooooo different! I tried a load of OMs and 000's before singling out the OM21 I have. That was before I found Ed Foley, Frank Finocchio and TOny DeDomenico, all local luthiers. I loved the OM before hearing the others.
But.... I was about to sell the Martin but found, recording in my basement with low ceilings, that the great guitars were TOO resonant and boomy down there, bouncing off the walls and ceiling, the notes you played two seconds ago were still ringing on. The Martin records down there like a dream, it sounds much more like a higher end hand made guitar. So I am keeping it for recording. For performing or sessions, I'll take the others.
Kerri, you could be right, but I did a quick google and don’t find any reference to Martin’s dropping the lifetime warranty, though they are always careful to call it a LIMITED warranty. By the way, I’d omit the 1970’s from the classic vintage period for Martins. They did some of their worst work during that time. I remember lots of mid-70’s Martins with the bridge glued in the wrong position. You couldn’t get the intonation right without widening the saddle slot and making a fat saddle. That’s a beginner’s mistake.
I’ve had a similar experience, Iris. I have a Martin D-35S that I never play because the neck is uncomfortable (in fact, I’m selling it). My Lowden sounds much better in person, but the Martin records better. A complex voice is often harder to record or amplify.
Ah well. My next guitar will be a red or yellow label pre-1970 Yamaha if I had my druthers. This is what my dad got to fill in for his lamented D28 and the sound of it (After I blew the dust off it, got a few cracks glued, the next straightened and a fret job done) puts my Martin to shame. Unfortunately my brother and I are engaged in a custody battle for my dad's guitar so I'm stuck performing with my ugly money pit of a Martin.
I have a growing suspicion that the Martin folks are more consistent in producing quality instruments when they stick to mahogany. When Brazilian rosewood became a protected commodity, it seems to me that it took them a few years to start getting a decent sound out of Indian rosewood. Mahogany has been available for a long time and I think maybe it's more predictable as a tonewood.
I liked my old Martins a lot, from 1968-1971 they were bought, but I did upgrade to the LoPrinzi. They were in NJ, small luthier shop. I was happy with it for many years.... still am but it feels neglected. Maybe it'll go out for a spin this weekend! Been a while!
I have been out of th Martin loop for a long time except for picking up the OM21 about three years back. It's a nice guitar but doesn't have the oomph the others have.
I wrote to the company to ask about that warranty issue. There is a "Limited Lifetime Guarantee" which applies to any part of the guitar that couldn't be damaged by ordinary wear and tear (frets, pick guard, machine heads, and unfortunately varnish).
The warranty on the wear / tear parts is for three years.
Unfortunately your finish won't start falling off for about five or six years, so my opinion is that buying a Martin is not worth the risk, since refinishing your peeling Martin costs as much as buying a brand new Martin. In insurance terms, I think that's called a "write-off".
I've had my Martin for almost 6 years and the finish is 'like New" (SP-000-16R) the tone on this guitar is sooo nice!!!! Great for backing ITM (in DADGAD) and for fingerstyle....you can hear a sample of it at: www.boghat.com/music/hornpipes2.mp3
but like the lads said...try lots of them!!!...I owned 2 before finding this one and haven't found one like it (sound wise) since!!!...as for taylors, some are nice but not my cup of tea as far as for ITM...just my opinion-Zouk
Which Martin??
Which Martin??
If you were going to buy a Martin giutar for finger picking and flat picking. Which one would it be?
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by John McCartin
Re: Which Martin??
As stated in other threads, except for its fussiness about humidity, my Martin 000M is a very good guitar for the money. Although, people with experience playing different guitars tell me that my particular guitar is one of those that stands out from others of its type and make--it just happened to roll off the assembly line with everything right. Because of the smaller body, it doesn't have a big bass sound, but its treble end is nice and bright.
My brother who runs a large music store, and handles purchasing for the chain, however, recommends Taylor guitars over Martins, he says the quality is more consistent.
In the end, however, a lot has to do with YOU, so try out as many instruments as you can.
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by AlBrown
Re: Which Martin??
You are likely to get a lot of replies along the lines of "my guitar is the best"and I won't disappoint - at least try an OM - listen to Chris Newman if you want to hear what can sound like.
I would definitely agree with the advice to try as many instruments as you can.
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by Cuso
Re: Which Martin??
My personal preference in the Martins has to be the D28, although the D35 is fine as well - but I do like a nice Dreadnought! VERY important to try as many as you can, until you find "the one". There are some duff Martins out there, in particular I know of at least one D28 which was on sale very cheaply in a musci store her in Dublin. I thought all my Christmases had come at once, until I tried it out. It sounded like an entry-level guitar, no tone, no depth.
Taylor guitars are becoming very highly-prized, and are very high quality, but a Martin is a Martin (if it's a good one) and will have that unique sound that is so sought-after.
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by lysaghtm
Re: Which Martin??
i have an 0-18 which i dearly love for it's voice and comfortable size, but for playing out and in noisy sessions i'd take a good D-18 every time, even over the D-28, they're better balanced if you want to play melody as well as backup.
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by Dont
Re: Which Martin??
After trying for years to find a guitar for both fingerpicking and flatpicking, I gave up. For fingerstyle, I need a wide string spacing; for flatpicking I need it narrow. For me, the compromise is always more “worst of both” than “best of both”. If I were forced into a compromise, though, I’d probably go with an OM-whatever. Probably mahogany.
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by Bob himself
Re: Which Martin??
I'm hearing that the D18/mahogany guitars are more in demand these days by flat pickers buying new guitars than the rosewood models.
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by griffith
Re: Which Martin??
They often have better clarity than the rosewood models.
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by Bob himself
Re: Which Martin??
I'm with Bob, which is why in that other thread I was talking about shopping for a dedicated fingerpicking guitar. Personally my choice would be a mahagany or walnut 00, but I might well end up with a 000.
If I had my druthers I'd probably add a jumbo dedicated to open tunings. Maple.
The only thing I've ever found Ds to be particularly good at is for unamplified street performing and band backing, which, oddly enough, is what they were developed for in the first place. Go figure. That describes a session reasonably well enough if all you wanted to do was back.
And it's unlikely I'd buy a Martin.
KFG
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by KFG
Re: Which Martin??
Oh, yeah, to actually answer your question, if I had to pick one all 'rounder, it would be an OM.
KFG
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by KFG
Re: Which Martin??
Just got an 00-18V -- love it. It is everything I wanted
Now, I need someone to buy my other guitar so I can afford this one.
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by Eliot
Re: Which Martin??
I think my M model, is the best dual purpose guitar if I only had to have one. It's shaped like an OM or 000 but bigger, maybe this is what some call mini jumbo. It's thinner than a jumbo and small on the bottom end with a deep waist and a little wider than a D at the widest part. Mine is made by Ed Foley in Andover NJ, but I think Martin makes one too, they are kind of not the usual thing people want so you rarely see them in stores.
Paul DeGrae plays an old martin M. We were going on last summer at the Catskills about the wonderfulness of Ms, we were both surprised someone else had one.
The OM though is also great for both. The M just has more chops for backing up, but has a more balanced tone than a D and is easier at least for me to hold to fingerpick.
Eliot.....what praytell is the one you have to sell, I have GAS so they say. On second thought....NO!!!! Don't tell me, LOL!
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by irisnevins
Re: Which Martin??
I'm not crazy about Martins in general (probably stemming from a time when 'if it ain't a Martin, it's sh*te' was the dominant feeling), but I have played a couple of OM28v's that were just wonderful, and that's the Martin that I'd like to have, if I were to like to have one. <GG>
I confess a certain weakness for vintage D-18s, too, but I think the subject of 'vintage' models is for another time... <GG>
Paul DeGrae's M and Randal Bays' J model are splendid, too.
stv
http://cdbaby.com/Culchies
# Posted on December 7th 2005 by stv culchie
Re: Which Martin??
I wouldn't buy another Martin myself. I got a C00016 in '93 - beautiful guitar, gorgeous sound - I was in love with it. Unfortunately the finish started to peel off about 6 years later. And I mean REALLY peel - air bubbles started to appear in the finish, then grow, then eventually crack and flake. I paid $3000 for my guitar - refinishing it would cost $2000.
The official Martin luthier in my town told me Martin was trying a new sealant that year, and that what was happening to my beautiful guitar was a manufacturing defect. We both wrote to Martin to see if they would pay for the refinishing, they said no go, since my 3-year warranty had expired.
Bottom line is, I paid that kind of money for that kind of guitar based on Martin's reputation as a maker of guitars that only improve with age, if adequately cared for. Martin doesn't give a fiddler's fart about that reputation any more, IMO, since my 10 year old guitar is an embarassment to the company and regularly exposed to the public eye.
And my $3000 investment was pretty much flushed down the toilet due to my mistaken impression of the quality and longevity of their product.
If you want to spend that kind of money, find a luthier who lovingly crafts everything by hand and cares about his / her work and reputation. You'll get much better service from them, and they'll be more likely to accept responsibility for their errors.
# Posted on December 7th 2005 by Kerri Brown
Re: Which Martin??
By the way, if you can find a vintage Martin, go for it. They used to deserve their reputation - that's how I got fooled. My dad was still raving and daydreaming about his D28 for decades after he parted with it, as if it were Shangri-la.
# Posted on December 7th 2005 by Kerri Brown
Re: Which Martin??
Kerri, your warranty was only three years? I thought the Martin warranty was always “lifetime” (your lifetime).
My single Martin warranty experience was very different. The neck had to be reset, but they also replaced some worn frets that weren’t really covered under the warranty. And they didn’t even ask for documentation. BUT, that was thirty years ago under the previous generation of ownership. It’s a different company now.
Martin can still make fabulous guitars. They’re just inconsistent. I don’t know what the problem is. Maybe the master luthiers are stretched too thin to supervise everything. It’s a shame.
# Posted on December 7th 2005 by Bob himself
Re: Which Martin??
I think the "lifetime" part refers to manufacturing defects. They don't consider anything to do with "finish" to be a manufacturing defect since it's possible for the finish to be damaged by contact with a guitar strap, and there's a clear warning about this in the documentation you get with the guitar (which is why I never even owned a strap).
Basically that means a manufacturing defect is whatever they say it is, and my experience is that they aren't willing to err on the side of caution to maintain their reputation as a reliable guitar maker.
But I mean, the finish is FALLING OFF THE GUITAR. All over. Everywhere. I've never even heard of that happening at all, let alone happening as a result of not following the instructions in the little booklet. Apparently though, it was common enough that the Martin luthier had seen it a few times with this particular vintage and knew it was a result of defective sealant (the first layer of varnish).
Bob, I'm guessing 30 years ago was a completely different story than today. Which is why I say, yes, buy a vintage Martin if you can find one, DON'T buy a new Martin. There's a good chance that what happened to me could happen to you, and if it does, you're on your own.
# Posted on December 7th 2005 by Kerri Brown
Re: Which Martin??
Also, now that I think of it, I'm pretty sure Martin does not offer a lifetime guarantee, even against manufacturing defects. I'd be careful about assuming this. Might be a thing of the past.
# Posted on December 7th 2005 by Kerri Brown
Re: Which Martin??
Hi John
I'm a Martin guy. I just like the sound. My all mohagany D-15 has seved me well and It's a decent all-solid wod guitar for not a lot of change. I like the tight focused sound of it especially when playing dropped-d back-up. Having said that I have tried them all, well a lot of 'em anyway, and I must say that some of the Taylor guitars I've tried blew my mind in comparison to the Martins FOR FLAT PICKING. The sound just pop's out. I'd concur with the above, try as many as you can. Your guitar will find you.
# Posted on December 7th 2005 by Chef Paul
Re: Which Martin??
The "problem is" they have an assembly line automated production system that turns out 800 per week.
# Posted on December 7th 2005 by griffith
Re: Which Martin??
I am not crazy about Martins in general. You have to go to a shop that has a lot of them and try each one, the same model, same wood can sound sooooo different! I tried a load of OMs and 000's before singling out the OM21 I have. That was before I found Ed Foley, Frank Finocchio and TOny DeDomenico, all local luthiers. I loved the OM before hearing the others.
But.... I was about to sell the Martin but found, recording in my basement with low ceilings, that the great guitars were TOO resonant and boomy down there, bouncing off the walls and ceiling, the notes you played two seconds ago were still ringing on. The Martin records down there like a dream, it sounds much more like a higher end hand made guitar. So I am keeping it for recording. For performing or sessions, I'll take the others.
# Posted on December 7th 2005 by irisnevins
Re: Which Martin??
Kerri, you could be right, but I did a quick google and don’t find any reference to Martin’s dropping the lifetime warranty, though they are always careful to call it a LIMITED warranty. By the way, I’d omit the 1970’s from the classic vintage period for Martins. They did some of their worst work during that time. I remember lots of mid-70’s Martins with the bridge glued in the wrong position. You couldn’t get the intonation right without widening the saddle slot and making a fat saddle. That’s a beginner’s mistake.
# Posted on December 7th 2005 by Bob himself
Re: Which Martin??
I’ve had a similar experience, Iris. I have a Martin D-35S that I never play because the neck is uncomfortable (in fact, I’m selling it). My Lowden sounds much better in person, but the Martin records better. A complex voice is often harder to record or amplify.
# Posted on December 7th 2005 by Bob himself
Re: Which Martin??
Ah well. My next guitar will be a red or yellow label pre-1970 Yamaha if I had my druthers. This is what my dad got to fill in for his lamented D28 and the sound of it (After I blew the dust off it, got a few cracks glued, the next straightened and a fret job done) puts my Martin to shame. Unfortunately my brother and I are engaged in a custody battle for my dad's guitar so I'm stuck performing with my ugly money pit of a Martin.
# Posted on December 7th 2005 by Kerri Brown
Re: Which Martin??
I remember those late 1960's Yamahas. Very nice and very cheap. I haven't seen one in a very long time. Always wondered how they aged.
# Posted on December 7th 2005 by Bob himself
Re: Which Martin??
Aye Kerri, it certainly pays to get your "next straightened"!
# Posted on December 7th 2005 by Ptarmigan
Re: Which Martin??
I play a D-18V. Both John Doyle (ex-Solas) and Pat Egan (Chulrua) like it. Of course, I do too.
Sean Earnest
Camp Hill, PA
# Posted on December 8th 2005 by DADGADLad
Re: Which Martin??
I have a growing suspicion that the Martin folks are more consistent in producing quality instruments when they stick to mahogany. When Brazilian rosewood became a protected commodity, it seems to me that it took them a few years to start getting a decent sound out of Indian rosewood. Mahogany has been available for a long time and I think maybe it's more predictable as a tonewood.
Or am I just dreaming this?
# Posted on December 8th 2005 by Bob himself
Re: Which Martin??
I liked my old Martins a lot, from 1968-1971 they were bought, but I did upgrade to the LoPrinzi. They were in NJ, small luthier shop. I was happy with it for many years.... still am but it feels neglected. Maybe it'll go out for a spin this weekend! Been a while!
I have been out of th Martin loop for a long time except for picking up the OM21 about three years back. It's a nice guitar but doesn't have the oomph the others have.
# Posted on December 8th 2005 by irisnevins
Re: Which Martin??
I wrote to the company to ask about that warranty issue. There is a "Limited Lifetime Guarantee" which applies to any part of the guitar that couldn't be damaged by ordinary wear and tear (frets, pick guard, machine heads, and unfortunately varnish).
The warranty on the wear / tear parts is for three years.
Unfortunately your finish won't start falling off for about five or six years, so my opinion is that buying a Martin is not worth the risk, since refinishing your peeling Martin costs as much as buying a brand new Martin. In insurance terms, I think that's called a "write-off".
# Posted on December 9th 2005 by Kerri Brown
Re: Which Martin??
I've had my Martin for almost 6 years and the finish is 'like New" (SP-000-16R) the tone on this guitar is sooo nice!!!! Great for backing ITM (in DADGAD) and for fingerstyle....you can hear a sample of it at: www.boghat.com/music/hornpipes2.mp3
but like the lads said...try lots of them!!!...I owned 2 before finding this one and haven't found one like it (sound wise) since!!!...as for taylors, some are nice but not my cup of tea as far as for ITM...just my opinion-Zouk
# Posted on December 10th 2005 by zoukmike
Re: Which Martin??
oops! I meant http://www.boghat.com/music/hornpipes2.mp3
zouk
# Posted on December 10th 2005 by zoukmike