With my history of stress injury, I’ve become very sensitive to the ergonomic aspects of playing an instrument. I’ve decided that the guitar body style that suits me best (by far!) for fingerstyle is the 000 size with twelve fret neck, like the Martin 000-28VS. I think the key features that make this body style work for me are the shallow body and the 12-fret neck.
I’ve been considering ordering one of the aforementioned Martins, but the (admittedly few) examples I’ve played just didn’t have a very strong voice. I’ll also submit this to some guitar forums, but since I know there are several very knowledgeable guitar players here, this is where I’m starting. So…
Are any of you familiar with other builders of this body style/size? I know Larrivee has a new 000 model. Anybody tried it out? I’ve played one Collings 000-2H that sounded about like the Martins. My son has a 000-16SGT that has a pleasant voice, but weak sustain and volume.
Also, any recommendations on particular guitar forums that might be helpful?
I was playing the Larriviee just last week. I rather like it. I'm thinking of picking one up for recording fingerpicking. It has a pleasant voice.
That's what the smaller bodies are all about, pleasant voice and tonal balance across the strings. Personally I actually prefer the 00.
But that pleasant voice and tonal balance does come at a cost and there isn't anything that can be done about it. Everything is a trade off and ya pays yer money and ya takes yer choice.
If I were you I'd try to borrow a 000 and play it exclusively for a couple of weeks. When you then go back to a D you might find that you think it sounds much too bass heavey and boomey.
I'd also recommend you look into Collins guitars. He specializes in the smaller bodies. His website claims he makes the best fingerpicking guitars in the world and from the examples I've played I can't gainsay that claim. They are quite extraordinary instruments. Price to match, of course.
I love smaller bodies guitars - the only guitar I have now is a turn-of-the-cntury parlor guitar, and if I were in the market again, it would definitely be a slot-head, 12-fret, 000 Martin, or something similar. I've spent a bit of time in shops with the all mahogany (sapele?) series 15 or 17 versionsThey're quire nice, and inexpensive. But by far, the best sounding Martin of this type I've played was spruce/rosewood; can't remember the exact model, but with the above specs. There is also the Norman Blake signature model, but I liked the one with the sloped shoulders better (but this body might be deeper than you desire). Larrivee and Collings make great boxes too, I'm sure. For obvious reasons, individual instruments will vary, so you've got to play it, if possible. Have fun shopping!
I play a Martin 000M, about 10 years old. Although it is sensitive to humidity (or rather, hates dry air), it is a very nice playing, and nice sounding guitar, even though it is one of their less expensive models (because of a plywood back and sides, I think).
A little less oopmh to the bass than a dreadnaught, but a clean sound that lends itself well to ITM. Unfortunately, that lack of power and strong bass response may be a tradeoff for the smaller body, so you may have to choose between ergonomics and power.
I have a Martin 000-15S which I love. I don't notice any problem with volume and sustain. She has a lovely dark rich voice, and when I strike a harmonic the tone rings forever. I tend to play with my fingers, which are naturally softer than a pick, but when my picking friends play her, she sings out just fine.
I play a full-size Gibson dreadnought with light strings and low action and love it. It has a warm tone, and isn't overloud (the light strings and my damping compensate). The stretches can be frustrating, but the guitar itself is worth it.
I use a small body Lowden for both fingerstyle and accompaniment - rosewood back and sides with an Engelman Spruce top. It's quite easy to play, has good sustain and presence, and also has a lot of volume for such a small guitar.
I occasionally play Guitar to flatpick some stuff. I play a Guild D series which is bigger than you like but I am sure the smaller model would be great and not a Gibson or Martin like everyone else has.
My main weapon is a Lowden F25, which is remarkably responsive, has a very broad tonal palette and is very loud. It's great for a lot of stuff, but sometimes I want a more traditional "Martin" sound - a little less responsive and not quite so loud. I know that might sound dumb, but some of you might understand what I mean.
I’m really more concerned about things like sustain and tonal palette than volume. “Loud enough” is okay with me. What bothered me about some of the Martins and the Collings was that the voice was sort of bland and couldn’t be varied very much. If I tried to play more toward the bridge, for a sharper sound, there was nothing there. Also, they didn’t respond well to left-hand slurs (hammer-on, pull-off).
The Norman Blake model I played was very responsive and had a good tonal range, but the short scale length is an ironic problem for me. It’s comfortable, but I don’t want to get used to it because my other guitars are long scale and it throws me off to swap back and forth.
Kevin, which Larrivee did you try – rosewood or mahogany? What impressed you about it?
Ah, yes, the shop I was in only had mahogany. I actually went in to try the parlour guitar, which I did think was nice, but ended up taken with the 000.
Nice tone, not overbright (you should know that when most people are ready to change strings I think they're just about coming in), but with a nice ring to it anyway. Very good balance. I'm afraid I didn't try it with a flatpick as I was specifically looking for a guitar dedicated to fingerpicking. Didn't notice any particular problems with tonal palette or responsivness.
It also had that unquantifiable quality of being just plain "nice to hold." Some combination of build quality, materials, finish and shape that just makes you want to pick it up.
And then of course there's the price. It's one hell of a lot of guitar for the money. Around here the mahogany Larrivees are quickly displacing the Martins as the stage axe of choice of the working pros.
Nobody in the audience can see the nice figure on that Brazilian rosewood back anyway.
Bob... I agree these days about the 000 or OM size. 43 years of playing big guitars has given be guitar shoulder! Before you rush out and buy a name brand, check out a luthier in Easton PA named Frank Finocchio. You can even go and build it yourself with him! Woods of your choice.
The modified OM I made can also be made ergonomic, with a slight slope where the right (if righty) arm rests on the body.
This guitar is LOUD!!!! It is louder than most of my dreadnaughts ... I was in shock. Frank is a stickler for neck setting and this is the easiest playing guitar I have. I also have a Martin OM21, and it and pales next to the one I made. Frank offers the same guitar for sale. He may have to make it for you if he doesn't have one on hand. I think about $2000. It'll beat out any Collings or Larivee in my opinion.
Another luthier is Ed Foley, who makes the best sounding (even Frank Finocchio was impressed, Foleys are a notch above for sound) guitars I have ever played. I have three of his. I have FIFTEEN guitars....I am SICK, I know, but have loads of fun with all of them. Foley is amazing but pretty pricey. www.foleyguitars.com is his site. Don't get scared by the prices, they are considerably less direct from him and he sometimes gets used ones back on trade ups that are a bargain. A friend brought his Collings over to make sure it wasn't some trick of Foley's room that they sounded so good. He looked up at Ed after trying his, then his Collings again and asked "What did you do to my Collings?" I brought over my workhorse, an old LoPrinzi (I never until then found an instrument I liked better) and the Martin OM, to compare, and put them away in two seconds. It was scary. I ended up spending $5900 for this amazing guitar and vowed NEVER to go back, and since then bought two of his used ones at a bargain price. One Dread and one amazing M model.
They are in PA and NJ but may have a return policy if you are not in the area. It's worth a trip up here though. Also another guy TOny DeDomenico who makes really nice ones, but does it on the side, for 25 years now, they are like the Finocchios very much. I don't know if he has any for sale at the moment, but might. He is my neighbor. Between these three guys I stay broke!!! I am winding down now though, and Tony will help me build a walnut one in a few months. Our backyards touch, I am in DEEP trouble! And Ed Foley is 15 minutes away.
If you want their phone #'s drop me a line. They are all in the same area, and well worth checking out. You can even come visit my collection while you're at it!
If you have a budget to stick too, I got for under $500 a Blueridge, on ebay. They make a model like a 000 but a 14 fret, it's short scale though. They have the #143 which is solid mahogony back and sides/spruce top, the #163 is all solid rosewood/spruce, the #183(or was it #173, can't remember) is the 163 dripping with abelone. They also have cheaper models #43,#63,#73 but if they have only TWO numbers the back and sides are laminate. Don't be fooled by the dealers claiming BRAZILLIAN rosewood on these, it's veneer. These are the 000 size model numbers. The prices have gone up since I got mine by about $100 but sometimes a non-dealer puts a used one up. Sounds a lot like my Martin ... they are Martin copies made by Saga in China, but they are darned good guitars. I even have a rosewood dreadnaught one I got to go to questionable areas...if I get held up....here, take it....I'll buy another. I also threw a pickup in the dread and use it for pub gigs where it can get knocked around.....it saves my Foleys!
So that's my three cents. Like I said, I'll be happy to put you in touch with these guys. I think the most reasonable would be Tony D. and his are great. He has about a dozen model guitars in his house and then he'll build what you like. Maybe he'd sell a model and make himself another.
OMG, KFG....I thought you meant COLLINGS! Collins ...wow I think I will do that walnut guitar with a curly red cedar top now!! Shame of it is that a guy that put on a house concert with our group tried to buy the one I made and I told him he can buy the next one, the first is like my firstborn! It'll be hard to part with any of them.
I own 3 wonderful, high-end boutique guitars. My most beloved is my Collings OM2H.
I doubt if you can get a better flat top than a Collings. The OM is wonderful for fingerstyle, but I've used it to flatpick ITM accompaniment at dozens of gigs. I can push the Collings more than any guitar I've played.
I bought it used, and if you can, do that. I've played a lot of them and every one has been excellent. I can't say that about any other maker. So if you get one used, It will be a great guitar and you might save quite a bit of cash. They don't come cheap.
I've been lying low since getting back from London, sadly - family stuff and work chaos, looks like 6-7 day weeks and work over the Christmas break at the moment. So I haven't been able to darken any session doorsteps but am getting back in the swing now (cross fingers). Worthy's doing nicely, had her first "settling in" checkup a few weeks back, came home with slightly raised action but otherwise a clean bill of health.
I swore to not buy anymore and have held to that. Making one doesn't count does it?
My little granddaughter has GAS too, she is 17 months old and goes from case to case and has me open them for her to strum, and she strums nicely. just got her a uke! she was thrilled. Hope she plays so I have someone to leave them to!
So no mre buying. But building is allowed, and let me tell you, it was a thrill! Can't wait to make another. The one I made is the ultimate fingerstyle guitar.
BTW, I can't play some tunes the way I do on a 12 fret unless it's a cutaway, that's why I like the 14 fretters. More room.
I do have an ancient, likely mid 1800's Bruno parlor guitar that's 12 fret. Needs some repair. It's a boomer, really loud too, but sweet.
Hi Tish - Not sure when I will next make it to Sydney. I'm going to have to find a good excuse to disappear for a few days, or find something really entertaining for my other half to do while I'm doing the music thing.
Hi Iris - I stopped at three steel acoustics, one nylon string and an acoustic bass guitar. But the one I play 99% of the time is my Worthy. Tish has one as well - see above.
Mine is a Sunbeam - see: http://www.worthyguitars.com/sunbeam.html
Hmm.. I feel a bit like I'm driving a Nissan Micra relative to the quality and expensive instruments mentioned above. I use a Baby Taylor - it's pretty cheap, very portable, comfortable to play, has a reasonable tone, and actually projects quite well. I think it's very good for accompanying Irish Traditional Music. Also, it's not too loud.
“Martin OM's have a longer scale (same as dreadnought) but the same body size as an OOO.”
That’s mostly accurate, cuso, but the 12-fret 000 has a different body style from the 14-fret 000 and the OM., and it has the longer scale. It would make more sense if they’d designate the 12-fret model as *the* 000 and call the others OM Long Scale and OM Short Scale.
And the next time Chris Martin asks for my advice, by golly, I'm gonna tell him!
Ron P,
I agree with you about the Baby Taylor. It is a pretty good little guitar for the money. I almost bought one once, but then caught myself and stepped back from the abyss of Instrument Acquisition Syndrome. I already own too many instruments, and have my old Yamaha to play if I ever have problems with my Martin. But I could use a good guitar with onboard electronics and pickups for public performances. Hmmmmm........
I'm over dreadnaughts and I play an OM now, but I still have a couple of jumbos in the house, a Lowden 032 and a custom Greven. They don't leave the house much. <GG> You can buy the Lowden from me if you want, but the Greven is a forever guitar for me.
I find that Martins have a lovely, deep 'thunk' to them, a lot of the wood sound. I like it, but I find that I play harder than I want to try and compensate for that.
Larrivee OMs, especially the OM-09 and up models are wonderful values, and seem to have more upper-mid and treble projection than the Martins. I don't know if they make a 000 size...
Collings, for more money, and Bourgeois guitars have fabulous character. In Vancouver, B.C., David Webber makes really lovely OMs and one about the same size but a different shape that he calls a Roundbody, and a very nice parlor guitar, too.
Some of the most amazing, just -magical- small guitars I have ever played and heard are made by Froggy Bottom in Vermont.
Huss and Dalton in Virginia make great guitars in the Martin model ranges. I haven't played their smaller ones, but I have played a couple of OMs and they were splendid.
And the OM I play, and am crazymadinlove with, is a Santa Cruz OM PW. Santa Cruz makes some very nice small guitars, a lovely H model and an H-13 with thirteen frets to the body and a parlor size, a 000 and OMs. I can't find it on their website but I have seen a new short-scale OM that is described as having (I believe) a 24" scale, as opposed to 25.4" which is standard on their OMs and dreads.
All the luthiers who make guitars in the Martin shapes and sizes all have different sounds. None of them are as 'deep and thunky' as the Martins (my subjective take there...), but all of the ones I've mentioned here I found to be really well-made and with great loads of character.
Steve, must you tempt me with more guitars, you know I have GAS!!!! These are lovely looking, made with care with great looking woods!! I like the dogs too!
I have to say, if you want LOUD and projection, these small models, if built nice and light with great resonant tops, they can drown out a dread. And great for fingerstyle. I've been dragging out the one I made to sessions to open the top up by giving it a good aggressive backup picking for hours at a time, and it is loud, yet sounds like a harp at the same time.
They also don't wear out your shoulder, these lil' guys!
Just catching up on this topic. Wow! I’m overwhelmed by the responses. But, then, I already knew this was a special crowd. If I wind up buying more than I need and spending money I don’t have, I’m gonna blame you guys. Especially Iris.
Interesting instruments, Tom. But ergonomic for me means Big Fat Thick Neck. Thin/low-profile necks aggravate my wrist. I've tried 'em all and what works for me is so thick that most capos don't open wide enough for it.
Bob, don't blame me! You don't need to eat, you need more guitars. Who needs food when they are playing!
I went nuts really. I remember back when I had a real nice Brazillian old 00028 Martin from the early 70's and fell in love with my LoPrinzi in a store by accident (they can be found on ebay pretty cheaply, the old ones, and they are darned good, but just Ds as far as I know) and still love it, but the only way was to trade the Martin plus the last $200 I had in the world. I later got the OM21 Martin, but it was never like that 00028. I was happy with the two, then ran into these local luthiers who ruined my life! I also bought a few of those Chinese guitars on ebay with all the inlay because they were cheap and pretty. They sound pretty good too and are well made, but stick with the dealer named "inlaidartist" his name is TOny Tsai and pretty reputable. I have three, all bewtween $200-400. Museum quality and solid woods. Then.....to save all my real good guitars, got the Blueridges for places I would have to worry.
Somehow.....it's up to 15 now. I ran the stores out of dampits so make my own out of a half sponge and an open baggie in the sound holes, they work better than dampits.
So....no more guitars unless I build them, unless of course and unbelieveable bargain is right in front of me!
This is very bad GAS, but so much fun. I've had gas since I was 11 years old!
Experience with this guitar type?
Experience with this guitar type?
With my history of stress injury, I’ve become very sensitive to the ergonomic aspects of playing an instrument. I’ve decided that the guitar body style that suits me best (by far!) for fingerstyle is the 000 size with twelve fret neck, like the Martin 000-28VS. I think the key features that make this body style work for me are the shallow body and the 12-fret neck.
I’ve been considering ordering one of the aforementioned Martins, but the (admittedly few) examples I’ve played just didn’t have a very strong voice. I’ll also submit this to some guitar forums, but since I know there are several very knowledgeable guitar players here, this is where I’m starting. So…
Are any of you familiar with other builders of this body style/size? I know Larrivee has a new 000 model. Anybody tried it out? I’ve played one Collings 000-2H that sounded about like the Martins. My son has a 000-16SGT that has a pleasant voice, but weak sustain and volume.
Also, any recommendations on particular guitar forums that might be helpful?
Thanks.
# Posted on December 5th 2005 by Bob himself
Re: Experience with this guitar type?
I was playing the Larriviee just last week. I rather like it. I'm thinking of picking one up for recording fingerpicking. It has a pleasant voice.
That's what the smaller bodies are all about, pleasant voice and tonal balance across the strings. Personally I actually prefer the 00.
But that pleasant voice and tonal balance does come at a cost and there isn't anything that can be done about it. Everything is a trade off and ya pays yer money and ya takes yer choice.
If I were you I'd try to borrow a 000 and play it exclusively for a couple of weeks. When you then go back to a D you might find that you think it sounds much too bass heavey and boomey.
I'd also recommend you look into Collins guitars. He specializes in the smaller bodies. His website claims he makes the best fingerpicking guitars in the world and from the examples I've played I can't gainsay that claim. They are quite extraordinary instruments. Price to match, of course.
http://www.collinsguitars.com/
KFG
# Posted on December 5th 2005 by KFG
Re: Experience with this guitar type?
Bob,
I love smaller bodies guitars - the only guitar I have now is a turn-of-the-cntury parlor guitar, and if I were in the market again, it would definitely be a slot-head, 12-fret, 000 Martin, or something similar. I've spent a bit of time in shops with the all mahogany (sapele?) series 15 or 17 versionsThey're quire nice, and inexpensive. But by far, the best sounding Martin of this type I've played was spruce/rosewood; can't remember the exact model, but with the above specs. There is also the Norman Blake signature model, but I liked the one with the sloped shoulders better (but this body might be deeper than you desire). Larrivee and Collings make great boxes too, I'm sure. For obvious reasons, individual instruments will vary, so you've got to play it, if possible. Have fun shopping!
# Posted on December 5th 2005 by Keith Dubinsky
Re: Experience with this guitar type?
I play a Martin 000M, about 10 years old. Although it is sensitive to humidity (or rather, hates dry air), it is a very nice playing, and nice sounding guitar, even though it is one of their less expensive models (because of a plywood back and sides, I think).
A little less oopmh to the bass than a dreadnaught, but a clean sound that lends itself well to ITM. Unfortunately, that lack of power and strong bass response may be a tradeoff for the smaller body, so you may have to choose between ergonomics and power.
# Posted on December 5th 2005 by AlBrown
Re: Experience with this guitar type?
I have a Martin 000-15S which I love. I don't notice any problem with volume and sustain. She has a lovely dark rich voice, and when I strike a harmonic the tone rings forever. I tend to play with my fingers, which are naturally softer than a pick, but when my picking friends play her, she sings out just fine.
# Posted on December 5th 2005 by KateG
Re: Experience with this guitar type?
I play a full-size Gibson dreadnought with light strings and low action and love it. It has a warm tone, and isn't overloud (the light strings and my damping compensate). The stretches can be frustrating, but the guitar itself is worth it.
# Posted on December 5th 2005 by Zazzaliss
Re: Experience with this guitar type?
I use a small body Lowden for both fingerstyle and accompaniment - rosewood back and sides with an Engelman Spruce top. It's quite easy to play, has good sustain and presence, and also has a lot of volume for such a small guitar.
I got it used at Mandolin Brothers in New York.
www.mandoweb.com
I have no commercial interests in this.
# Posted on December 5th 2005 by dfost
Re: Experience with this guitar type?
I occasionally play Guitar to flatpick some stuff. I play a Guild D series which is bigger than you like but I am sure the smaller model would be great and not a Gibson or Martin like everyone else has.
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by Why Bother?
Re: Experience with this guitar type?
My main weapon is a Lowden F25, which is remarkably responsive, has a very broad tonal palette and is very loud. It's great for a lot of stuff, but sometimes I want a more traditional "Martin" sound - a little less responsive and not quite so loud. I know that might sound dumb, but some of you might understand what I mean.
I’m really more concerned about things like sustain and tonal palette than volume. “Loud enough” is okay with me. What bothered me about some of the Martins and the Collings was that the voice was sort of bland and couldn’t be varied very much. If I tried to play more toward the bridge, for a sharper sound, there was nothing there. Also, they didn’t respond well to left-hand slurs (hammer-on, pull-off).
The Norman Blake model I played was very responsive and had a good tonal range, but the short scale length is an ironic problem for me. It’s comfortable, but I don’t want to get used to it because my other guitars are long scale and it throws me off to swap back and forth.
Kevin, which Larrivee did you try – rosewood or mahogany? What impressed you about it?
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by Bob himself
Re: Experience with this guitar type?
Ah, yes, the shop I was in only had mahogany. I actually went in to try the parlour guitar, which I did think was nice, but ended up taken with the 000.
Nice tone, not overbright (you should know that when most people are ready to change strings I think they're just about coming in), but with a nice ring to it anyway. Very good balance. I'm afraid I didn't try it with a flatpick as I was specifically looking for a guitar dedicated to fingerpicking. Didn't notice any particular problems with tonal palette or responsivness.
It also had that unquantifiable quality of being just plain "nice to hold." Some combination of build quality, materials, finish and shape that just makes you want to pick it up.
And then of course there's the price. It's one hell of a lot of guitar for the money. Around here the mahogany Larrivees are quickly displacing the Martins as the stage axe of choice of the working pros.
Nobody in the audience can see the nice figure on that Brazilian rosewood back anyway.
KFG
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by KFG
Re: Experience with this guitar type?
Bob... I agree these days about the 000 or OM size. 43 years of playing big guitars has given be guitar shoulder! Before you rush out and buy a name brand, check out a luthier in Easton PA named Frank Finocchio. You can even go and build it yourself with him! Woods of your choice.
The modified OM I made can also be made ergonomic, with a slight slope where the right (if righty) arm rests on the body.
This guitar is LOUD!!!! It is louder than most of my dreadnaughts ... I was in shock. Frank is a stickler for neck setting and this is the easiest playing guitar I have. I also have a Martin OM21, and it and pales next to the one I made. Frank offers the same guitar for sale. He may have to make it for you if he doesn't have one on hand. I think about $2000. It'll beat out any Collings or Larivee in my opinion.
Another luthier is Ed Foley, who makes the best sounding (even Frank Finocchio was impressed, Foleys are a notch above for sound) guitars I have ever played. I have three of his. I have FIFTEEN guitars....I am SICK, I know, but have loads of fun with all of them. Foley is amazing but pretty pricey. www.foleyguitars.com is his site. Don't get scared by the prices, they are considerably less direct from him and he sometimes gets used ones back on trade ups that are a bargain. A friend brought his Collings over to make sure it wasn't some trick of Foley's room that they sounded so good. He looked up at Ed after trying his, then his Collings again and asked "What did you do to my Collings?" I brought over my workhorse, an old LoPrinzi (I never until then found an instrument I liked better) and the Martin OM, to compare, and put them away in two seconds. It was scary. I ended up spending $5900 for this amazing guitar and vowed NEVER to go back, and since then bought two of his used ones at a bargain price. One Dread and one amazing M model.
They are in PA and NJ but may have a return policy if you are not in the area. It's worth a trip up here though. Also another guy TOny DeDomenico who makes really nice ones, but does it on the side, for 25 years now, they are like the Finocchios very much. I don't know if he has any for sale at the moment, but might. He is my neighbor. Between these three guys I stay broke!!! I am winding down now though, and Tony will help me build a walnut one in a few months. Our backyards touch, I am in DEEP trouble! And Ed Foley is 15 minutes away.
If you want their phone #'s drop me a line. They are all in the same area, and well worth checking out. You can even come visit my collection while you're at it!
If you have a budget to stick too, I got for under $500 a Blueridge, on ebay. They make a model like a 000 but a 14 fret, it's short scale though. They have the #143 which is solid mahogony back and sides/spruce top, the #163 is all solid rosewood/spruce, the #183(or was it #173, can't remember) is the 163 dripping with abelone. They also have cheaper models #43,#63,#73 but if they have only TWO numbers the back and sides are laminate. Don't be fooled by the dealers claiming BRAZILLIAN rosewood on these, it's veneer. These are the 000 size model numbers. The prices have gone up since I got mine by about $100 but sometimes a non-dealer puts a used one up. Sounds a lot like my Martin ... they are Martin copies made by Saga in China, but they are darned good guitars. I even have a rosewood dreadnaught one I got to go to questionable areas...if I get held up....here, take it....I'll buy another. I also threw a pickup in the dread and use it for pub gigs where it can get knocked around.....it saves my Foleys!
So that's my three cents. Like I said, I'll be happy to put you in touch with these guys. I think the most reasonable would be Tony D. and his are great. He has about a dozen model guitars in his house and then he'll build what you like. Maybe he'd sell a model and make himself another.
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by irisnevins
Re: Experience with this guitar type?
OMG, KFG....I thought you meant COLLINGS! Collins ...wow I think I will do that walnut guitar with a curly red cedar top now!! Shame of it is that a guy that put on a house concert with our group tried to buy the one I made and I told him he can buy the next one, the first is like my firstborn! It'll be hard to part with any of them.
off to the tonewoods sites!!
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by irisnevins
Re: Experience with this guitar type?
I own 3 wonderful, high-end boutique guitars. My most beloved is my Collings OM2H.
I doubt if you can get a better flat top than a Collings. The OM is wonderful for fingerstyle, but I've used it to flatpick ITM accompaniment at dozens of gigs. I can push the Collings more than any guitar I've played.
I bought it used, and if you can, do that. I've played a lot of them and every one has been excellent. I can't say that about any other maker. So if you get one used, It will be a great guitar and you might save quite a bit of cash. They don't come cheap.
Get one. It's a guitar for a lifetime.
Keith
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by IC Keith
Re: Experience with this guitar type?
Irisnevins - you have obviously got GAS (Guitar Acquisition Syndrome)
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by Donough
Re: Experience with this guitar type?
Bob Yerself, you asked for forums that might help. Loads of friendly helpful people who have road tested a huge variety of guitars over here:
http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/index.php?
Loads of discussion threads on makers, body types, etc, and they generally don't mind questions being asked again.
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by Tish
Re: Experience with this guitar type?
Hi Tish
I think everyone else is gone to bed now. How is the music in Sydney these days? And how's the Worthy guitar?
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by Donough
Re: Experience with this guitar type?
Hi Donough!
I've been lying low since getting back from London, sadly - family stuff and work chaos, looks like 6-7 day weeks and work over the Christmas break at the moment. So I haven't been able to darken any session doorsteps but am getting back in the swing now (cross fingers). Worthy's doing nicely, had her first "settling in" checkup a few weeks back, came home with slightly raised action but otherwise a clean bill of health.
When are you coming back to Sydney?
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by Tish
Re: Experience with this guitar type?
Yes Donough, I have VERY bad GAS.
I swore to not buy anymore and have held to that. Making one doesn't count does it?
My little granddaughter has GAS too, she is 17 months old and goes from case to case and has me open them for her to strum, and she strums nicely. just got her a uke! she was thrilled. Hope she plays so I have someone to leave them to!
So no mre buying. But building is allowed, and let me tell you, it was a thrill! Can't wait to make another. The one I made is the ultimate fingerstyle guitar.
BTW, I can't play some tunes the way I do on a 12 fret unless it's a cutaway, that's why I like the 14 fretters. More room.
I do have an ancient, likely mid 1800's Bruno parlor guitar that's 12 fret. Needs some repair. It's a boomer, really loud too, but sweet.
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by irisnevins
Re: Experience with this guitar type?
Hi Tish - Not sure when I will next make it to Sydney. I'm going to have to find a good excuse to disappear for a few days, or find something really entertaining for my other half to do while I'm doing the music thing.
Hi Iris - I stopped at three steel acoustics, one nylon string and an acoustic bass guitar. But the one I play 99% of the time is my Worthy. Tish has one as well - see above.
Mine is a Sunbeam - see:
http://www.worthyguitars.com/sunbeam.html
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by Donough
Re: Experience with this guitar type?
Martin OM's have a longer scale (same as dreadnought) but the same body size as an OOO.
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by Cuso
Re: Experience with this guitar type?
Hmm.. I feel a bit like I'm driving a Nissan Micra relative to the quality and expensive instruments mentioned above. I use a Baby Taylor - it's pretty cheap, very portable, comfortable to play, has a reasonable tone, and actually projects quite well. I think it's very good for accompanying Irish Traditional Music. Also, it's not too loud.
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by On Sabbatical
Re: Experience with this guitar type?
“Martin OM's have a longer scale (same as dreadnought) but the same body size as an OOO.”
That’s mostly accurate, cuso, but the 12-fret 000 has a different body style from the 14-fret 000 and the OM., and it has the longer scale. It would make more sense if they’d designate the 12-fret model as *the* 000 and call the others OM Long Scale and OM Short Scale.
And the next time Chris Martin asks for my advice, by golly, I'm gonna tell him!
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by Bob himself
Re: Experience with this guitar type?
Ron P,
I agree with you about the Baby Taylor. It is a pretty good little guitar for the money. I almost bought one once, but then caught myself and stepped back from the abyss of Instrument Acquisition Syndrome. I already own too many instruments, and have my old Yamaha to play if I ever have problems with my Martin. But I could use a good guitar with onboard electronics and pickups for public performances. Hmmmmm........
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by AlBrown
Re: Experience with this guitar type?
I'm over dreadnaughts and I play an OM now, but I still have a couple of jumbos in the house, a Lowden 032 and a custom Greven. They don't leave the house much. <GG> You can buy the Lowden from me if you want, but the Greven is a forever guitar for me.
I find that Martins have a lovely, deep 'thunk' to them, a lot of the wood sound. I like it, but I find that I play harder than I want to try and compensate for that.
Larrivee OMs, especially the OM-09 and up models are wonderful values, and seem to have more upper-mid and treble projection than the Martins. I don't know if they make a 000 size...
Collings, for more money, and Bourgeois guitars have fabulous character. In Vancouver, B.C., David Webber makes really lovely OMs and one about the same size but a different shape that he calls a Roundbody, and a very nice parlor guitar, too.
Some of the most amazing, just -magical- small guitars I have ever played and heard are made by Froggy Bottom in Vermont.
Huss and Dalton in Virginia make great guitars in the Martin model ranges. I haven't played their smaller ones, but I have played a couple of OMs and they were splendid.
And the OM I play, and am crazymadinlove with, is a Santa Cruz OM PW. Santa Cruz makes some very nice small guitars, a lovely H model and an H-13 with thirteen frets to the body and a parlor size, a 000 and OMs. I can't find it on their website but I have seen a new short-scale OM that is described as having (I believe) a 24" scale, as opposed to 25.4" which is standard on their OMs and dreads.
All the luthiers who make guitars in the Martin shapes and sizes all have different sounds. None of them are as 'deep and thunky' as the Martins (my subjective take there...), but all of the ones I've mentioned here I found to be really well-made and with great loads of character.
stv
http://cdbaby.com/Culchies
# Posted on December 7th 2005 by stv culchie
Re: Experience with this guitar type?
Oh, here's another luthier who loves to make small guitars, and has some serious Irish trad cred, too. As in "Dennis Cahill".
http://www.vtguitars.com/
stv
http://cdbaby.com/Culchies
# Posted on December 7th 2005 by stv culchie
Re: Experience with this guitar type?
Steve, must you tempt me with more guitars, you know I have GAS!!!! These are lovely looking, made with care with great looking woods!! I like the dogs too!
I have to say, if you want LOUD and projection, these small models, if built nice and light with great resonant tops, they can drown out a dread. And great for fingerstyle. I've been dragging out the one I made to sessions to open the top up by giving it a good aggressive backup picking for hours at a time, and it is loud, yet sounds like a harp at the same time.
They also don't wear out your shoulder, these lil' guys!
# Posted on December 7th 2005 by irisnevins
Re: Experience with this guitar type?
Here's an interesting link I got from someone on acousticguitarforum:
http://www.alcarruthluthier.com/
Check out the technical info.
# Posted on December 7th 2005 by Bob himself
Re: Experience with this guitar type?
Just catching up on this topic. Wow! I’m overwhelmed by the responses. But, then, I already knew this was a special crowd. If I wind up buying more than I need and spending money I don’t have, I’m gonna blame you guys. Especially Iris.
# Posted on December 7th 2005 by Bob himself
Re: Experience with this guitar type?
Bob,
Another possible consideration:
http://www.emeraldguitars.com
Ergonomic advantage: Parker Fly style thin neck. Does not match the body style that you described, however.
Best wishes,
Tom
# Posted on December 7th 2005 by ceciltguitar
Re: Experience with this guitar type?
Interesting instruments, Tom. But ergonomic for me means Big Fat Thick Neck. Thin/low-profile necks aggravate my wrist. I've tried 'em all and what works for me is so thick that most capos don't open wide enough for it.
# Posted on December 7th 2005 by Bob himself
Re: Experience with this guitar type?
Bob, don't blame me! You don't need to eat, you need more guitars. Who needs food when they are playing!
I went nuts really. I remember back when I had a real nice Brazillian old 00028 Martin from the early 70's and fell in love with my LoPrinzi in a store by accident (they can be found on ebay pretty cheaply, the old ones, and they are darned good, but just Ds as far as I know) and still love it, but the only way was to trade the Martin plus the last $200 I had in the world. I later got the OM21 Martin, but it was never like that 00028. I was happy with the two, then ran into these local luthiers who ruined my life! I also bought a few of those Chinese guitars on ebay with all the inlay because they were cheap and pretty. They sound pretty good too and are well made, but stick with the dealer named "inlaidartist" his name is TOny Tsai and pretty reputable. I have three, all bewtween $200-400. Museum quality and solid woods. Then.....to save all my real good guitars, got the Blueridges for places I would have to worry.
Somehow.....it's up to 15 now. I ran the stores out of dampits so make my own out of a half sponge and an open baggie in the sound holes, they work better than dampits.
So....no more guitars unless I build them, unless of course and unbelieveable bargain is right in front of me!
This is very bad GAS, but so much fun. I've had gas since I was 11 years old!
# Posted on December 7th 2005 by irisnevins
Re: Experience with this guitar type?
Bob,
Interesting - thick necks aggravate my wrist, just the opposite of your experience.
Tom
# Posted on December 8th 2005 by ceciltguitar
Re: Experience with this guitar type?
i grew up (and learned the stuff) with ''thick'' necks _ never again . . .
# Posted on December 10th 2005 by lisaniska