I went to my usual session at The Alliance ( Croydon ) last Friday,only to be told by the pub landlord that he needs to apply for a new license.He thought he didn,t need to,as he is not going to change his opening hours.He's now been told to apply,and is on very dodgy ground until he done it - so no music until he's legal again.
Anybody else had a similar experience ?
Pretty stupid when you think about it, isn't it? Needing a licence for acoustic music... I'm in no way putting down the entertainment factor, but it's not as if you have to pay into seisiúns and the music (usually) isn't too loud and overwhelming that it would offend neighbours to the bar causing sound pollution etc... Although, sometimes mic'd-up seisiúns can be a nightmare at times, in my opinion this is better for a concert type performance rather than a seisiún. Is the new licencing law only over in England?
I thought these laws were to get modern about this thing not to take us back into archaic territory
sh*te
b****ocks
arse
tony blair !
he was once a musician so he should understand that people need somewhere to take their music apart from the rehersal rooms and bedrooms as it has a detrimental effect on our younger generations of ITM's and young college rock bands because if they have nowhere to aim for what really is the point of learning it unless you go straight into recording it and selling millions of c.d's overnight to get rich quick because thats what its all about isn' it ???
some great bands are born out of a sing song session in a pub and great friendships too
Shame. I wanted to get down to that session at some point.
The new PEL (Public Entertainment Licence) should in theory make sessions easier to do rather than more difficult as was the old 2-in-a-bar rule. (I'm not New Labour, honest!) And buying a Licence should be cheaper than the old music licence. My guess is that your governor didn't a music licence before and doesn't want to part with the dosh to get one. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I can't think of any other reason. Hope you get another venue soon.
The reason publicans don't want to apply for the music licence is that the forms are too tedious to fill in (despite the DCMS saying it was just a few boxes to tick) and once applied for the council will come round and impose conditions on the venue even though they are not supposed to impose conditions over and above those required under health and safety regulations.
Tony Blair didn't pay fees when he went to university either. It's called pulling up the ladder.
But the landlord of the Alliance can put on as much big screen live sport, as provided for a hefty fee by Tony Blair's great mate Rupert Murdoch, as he likes without applying for a new licence.
Charles Clarke, when the minister responsible for this legislation, was asked how it was that in Scotland you could have a dozen pipers/fiddlers, any other acoustic musicians playing in licensed premises without let or hindrance, simply replied "We're not Scotland " the cultureless prat.
Of course, if you divided England up into a number of provinces, each with the same number of inhabitants as Scotland, or even Ireland, and encouraged each area to publicise, promote, and encourage its own local culture and folklore, you might then have a completely different attitude to our music. Fat chance, I fear !
The MU was lobbying hard on this, but the "entairtainment industry" also has a strong financial imperative and went in even harder, which is why deafening discos and wide-screen sports shows need NO licence !!
Played in a session in a certain East Riding town without a music licence. The landlord said "play away, but you must finish spot on time as Plod will be watching".
We had a lot of problems in Sheffield under the old scheme with sessions being closed down - got to the stage where I was think they were out to get me. I even have a letter from my then mp telling how much better things were going to be.
So far the only problems I have heard of are where previously a duo would have been playing without any need for a liscence and now that isn't the case and the problems with Sam Smith's pubs.
Early days yet. There may be more problems away from the pubs in the village halls etc.
Don't mention Village Halls.
We have no problem with entertainments licences, but the drinks thing is about to destroy our monthly Unplugged event. We never had a bar, so didn't ever apply for a drinks licence. The event has always been bring your own bottle. Now they want us to pay them for the pleasure of not having a bar, so that they can have a name for the old bill to nab with a spot-fine, should anyone 'underage' be caught drinking, or anyone cause any trouble after leaving the premises.
Basically, in Blair's Britain, anything that is done must be licensed, so that it can be run for a profit. Any event like ours which is non-profitmaking and just a service to musicians and the community comes outside the bounds of their comprehension, and therefore trodden underfoot in the rush for profits.
ita vero,Mark!
so-called new so-called labour have long since adopted the tory characteristic of knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing.
it's a pity eric blair is n't in a position to give an opinion on his (sur)namesake.
mind you, what can we expect from someone willing to wage war just to keep in with mr. bush but who won't do the decent thing about smoking in pubs just to pander to his colleague's ego?
the writing was on the wall when clause 4 went the way of all flesh.
grr
grr
i'm off to have to good moan with victor meldrew now...
Paul Draper, yeah, I'm aware of that. I know some governors down here who jumped through hoops to get the OLD music licences before the new legislation came in, just so they would be first in the queue to get the new ones! At least what I was told. Fire doors and all sorts. And the old ones were I think £800 per year and another £800 if it was the first time they applied. The new PEL ones *are* cheaper. I wrote to my MP at the time and got a lengthy reply. No doubt you've done the same. But if you need to, I could dig it out and get a copy to you.
New Licensing law - death of a session
New Licensing law - death of a session
I went to my usual session at The Alliance ( Croydon ) last Friday,only to be told by the pub landlord that he needs to apply for a new license.He thought he didn,t need to,as he is not going to change his opening hours.He's now been told to apply,and is on very dodgy ground until he done it - so no music until he's legal again.
Anybody else had a similar experience ?
# Posted on December 5th 2005 by Grant Perry
Re: New Licensing law - death of a session
Waxy O'Connors off Leicester Square, London.
# Posted on December 5th 2005 by Q
Re: New Licensing law - death of a session
Pretty stupid when you think about it, isn't it? Needing a licence for acoustic music... I'm in no way putting down the entertainment factor, but it's not as if you have to pay into seisiúns and the music (usually) isn't too loud and overwhelming that it would offend neighbours to the bar causing sound pollution etc... Although, sometimes mic'd-up seisiúns can be a nightmare at times, in my opinion this is better for a concert type performance rather than a seisiún. Is the new licencing law only over in England?
# Posted on December 5th 2005 by Murrough
Re: New Licensing law - death of a session
Fraid so. We English don't like music, just the noise it makes (rough version of a quote attributed to Handel).
Sad that this law only is designed to stop live music, not affect any corporately-produced crap.
Shame!
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by Mark Harmer
Re: New Licensing law - death of a session
I thought these laws were to get modern about this thing not to take us back into archaic territory
sh*te
b****ocks
arse
tony blair !
he was once a musician so he should understand that people need somewhere to take their music apart from the rehersal rooms and bedrooms as it has a detrimental effect on our younger generations of ITM's and young college rock bands because if they have nowhere to aim for what really is the point of learning it unless you go straight into recording it and selling millions of c.d's overnight to get rich quick because thats what its all about isn' it ???
some great bands are born out of a sing song session in a pub and great friendships too
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by Ripthecalico
Re: New Licensing law - death of a session
All part of our disconnection from doing stuff for ourselves and following the herd into buying stuff that's mass-produced...
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by Mark Harmer
Re: New Licensing law - death of a session
Shame. I wanted to get down to that session at some point.
The new PEL (Public Entertainment Licence) should in theory make sessions easier to do rather than more difficult as was the old 2-in-a-bar rule. (I'm not New Labour, honest!) And buying a Licence should be cheaper than the old music licence. My guess is that your governor didn't a music licence before and doesn't want to part with the dosh to get one. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I can't think of any other reason. Hope you get another venue soon.
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by Rudall the time
Re: New Licensing law - death of a session
Dear TWBAEM,
Of course, you are right on the money! Blair played in, I think I have it right, Ugly Rumours.
Quite apposite don't you think?
Mind though, not all about music is it!
1st May '97 saw the start of some incredible (in cricketing terms) reverse swing! And the "wonderful" way the Ashes victors were welcomed to No.10.
Is the public's memory so short?
Thanks to everybody who's kept me informed via this site, and personally, of what is going on musically.
To use an old expression, "I'm gobsmacked!"
Brianx
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by briantheflute
Re: New Licensing law - death of a session
Danny,
The reason publicans don't want to apply for the music licence is that the forms are too tedious to fill in (despite the DCMS saying it was just a few boxes to tick) and once applied for the council will come round and impose conditions on the venue even though they are not supposed to impose conditions over and above those required under health and safety regulations.
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by Paul_draper
Re: New Licensing law - death of a session
Tony Blair didn't pay fees when he went to university either. It's called pulling up the ladder.
But the landlord of the Alliance can put on as much big screen live sport, as provided for a hefty fee by Tony Blair's great mate Rupert Murdoch, as he likes without applying for a new licence.
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by LastToFinish
Re: New Licensing law - death of a session
Charles Clarke, when the minister responsible for this legislation, was asked how it was that in Scotland you could have a dozen pipers/fiddlers, any other acoustic musicians playing in licensed premises without let or hindrance, simply replied "We're not Scotland " the cultureless prat.
Of course, if you divided England up into a number of provinces, each with the same number of inhabitants as Scotland, or even Ireland, and encouraged each area to publicise, promote, and encourage its own local culture and folklore, you might then have a completely different attitude to our music. Fat chance, I fear !
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by Guernsey Pete
Re: New Licensing law - death of a session
The MU was lobbying hard on this, but the "entairtainment industry" also has a strong financial imperative and went in even harder, which is why deafening discos and wide-screen sports shows need NO licence !!
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by Guernsey Pete
Re: New Licensing law - death of a session
Played in a session in a certain East Riding town without a music licence. The landlord said "play away, but you must finish spot on time as Plod will be watching".
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by geoffwright
Re: New Licensing law - death of a session
We had a lot of problems in Sheffield under the old scheme with sessions being closed down - got to the stage where I was think they were out to get me. I even have a letter from my then mp telling how much better things were going to be.
So far the only problems I have heard of are where previously a duo would have been playing without any need for a liscence and now that isn't the case and the problems with Sam Smith's pubs.
Early days yet. There may be more problems away from the pubs in the village halls etc.
J
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by jfother
Re: New Licensing law - death of a session
Don't mention Village Halls.
We have no problem with entertainments licences, but the drinks thing is about to destroy our monthly Unplugged event. We never had a bar, so didn't ever apply for a drinks licence. The event has always been bring your own bottle. Now they want us to pay them for the pleasure of not having a bar, so that they can have a name for the old bill to nab with a spot-fine, should anyone 'underage' be caught drinking, or anyone cause any trouble after leaving the premises.
Basically, in Blair's Britain, anything that is done must be licensed, so that it can be run for a profit. Any event like ours which is non-profitmaking and just a service to musicians and the community comes outside the bounds of their comprehension, and therefore trodden underfoot in the rush for profits.
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by Ottery
Re: New Licensing law - death of a session
ita vero,Mark!
so-called new so-called labour have long since adopted the tory characteristic of knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing.
it's a pity eric blair is n't in a position to give an opinion on his (sur)namesake.
mind you, what can we expect from someone willing to wage war just to keep in with mr. bush but who won't do the decent thing about smoking in pubs just to pander to his colleague's ego?
the writing was on the wall when clause 4 went the way of all flesh.
grr
grr
i'm off to have to good moan with victor meldrew now...
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by biggus dave
Re: New Licensing law - death of a session
Eric Blair is buried not far from here, at Sutton Courtenay. He probably smiles wryly as he rotates in his grave ....
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by Ottery
Re: New Licensing law - death of a session
Paul Draper, yeah, I'm aware of that. I know some governors down here who jumped through hoops to get the OLD music licences before the new legislation came in, just so they would be first in the queue to get the new ones! At least what I was told. Fire doors and all sorts. And the old ones were I think £800 per year and another £800 if it was the first time they applied. The new PEL ones *are* cheaper. I wrote to my MP at the time and got a lengthy reply. No doubt you've done the same. But if you need to, I could dig it out and get a copy to you.
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by Rudall the time
Re: New Licensing law - death of a session
And here's a link to an old thread referring to one of the pubs of which I speak:
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display.php/1659/comments#comment28545
# Posted on December 6th 2005 by Rudall the time