How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
Finally managed to attend one of the "Return to Camden Town" sessions - how embarrassing ! ( Not the people, just me. ) They weren't even playing the tunes at breakneck speed
Could barely play/recognise a tune, at least I can always strum along on the 'zouk, SO on flute and whistle has to know them, or get out the percussion.
So, a survey, and I'll draw up a bar diagram;
Rate yourself from one (novice) to five (whiz-kid) and give an average percentage of how many tunes you can play when you go along to strange/new sessions.
I'd like some reassurance that I'm not the only one who can go just a few miles and find himself in unfamiliar repertoires.
Oh, I'd rate myself as 1& 1/2 and about 2% on last Saturdays' perfromance.
Re: How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
I think many of us are in the same boat. More than would care to admit, I suspect. That's why they stick to the same regular sessions and blame the "other half" for only letting them out once or twice a week.
It's probably a good thing that repertoires do vary from place to place. I'm afraid that I couldn't give an accurate percentage. Sometimes, I'll know 90% + but other times about 2%. As you say, the tunes aren't necessarily difficult but just not known to me (us).
Folk/trad music festivals can be unpredicatable. You can sometimes find sessions where everyone sticks to the well known tunes so as to be inclusive but you'll also get smaller "splinter groups" where the choice of tunes are much more obscure.
Re: How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
It's easy to feel comfortable attending a regular session with the same group of people where the repertoire changes slowly. Going to a new session or a festival session can make you lose confidence in your ability if you're not used to sitting out. I agree with John about festival sessions - the splinter groups are usually caused by established groups taking over a session and playing their own repertoire - but it can be equally frustrating if the session plays only really well-known tunes because I like to come away with a new tune or two or to find I could play something I didn't think I knew well enough!.
Re: How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
Being new to the London session scene, and keen to sample as many sessions as I can get to, I've been in the same situation more often in the past two months than I care to remember.
And it is disheartening.
Without exception,the regulars have been extremely friendly and generous - but usually the only tunes I get to play at a session are the ones I'm asked to start. Conan will tell you how ebullient I got at the Porterhouse last week when I managed to join in on EIGHT whole tunes over four hours! Had a grin plastered to my face the whole way home that evening.
The rest of the time, I just sit there with my flute on my lap, doing my best neither to noodle, nor to drink too much, which invariably leads me to noodle more.
Actually, I think the Greater London tune repertoire can be cracked. It'll take a while, though.
Re: How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
Having sampled many sessions in Ireland and Britain even before picking up an instrument, I know what tunes are popular in most places. On average, I can recognise almost 80% of the tunes and can play more than half wherever I go.
I played in the Porterhouse session when Conan was away for Milltown. It was definitely the nicest session I've ever joined as a visitor.
Re: How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
Well, it was nice not because Conan was away, of course. I felt really comfortable there chatting with other players as if we had known each other for a while.
Re: How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
I think concerning yourself with how many tunes you know at a session you're visiting can interfere with your enjoyment. There are too many factors to come up with a meaningful percentage. On my last trip to Ireland there were some sessions where I knew nearly every tune, and others where I only knew a handful. On this recent trip I certainly knew more than any previous trip, but that's to be expected since I'm learning new tunes all the time. The key to enjoying yourself, in my opinion, is not to expect to know more than a few tunes, and be prepared to do a lot of listening. The only time you should really worry about how many tunes know is in relation to the regular sessions you go to. But it's really better just to concentrate on the tunes you enjoy playing. As for me, I’ve been at it for over 20 years now and I still don’t feel that I know enough tunes.
Re: How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
The lowest number of tunes I could play was 2, at a fairly serious session in Denver. And the number of tunes at some of the sessions I have attended in Boston have also been quite low--especially those sessions where Irish immigrants make up more than half the players, and the reels come pouring forth in mass quantitities. Nearer home I do better--because I know the folks involved, I usually know at least half the tunes in most of the sessions I attend around RI, and more at my home session.
I myself would recommend avoiding the temptation to use a guitar or some other accompaniment instrument on strange tunes--get to know them first.
Listening can be a lot of fun.
Re: How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
There's a lot of tunes out there. Round here, the difference in repertoire between sessions in Slough and Oxford is a bit scary. I went to the Dave Williams Memorial weekend at the weekend, and at a little session between workshops, two young girls (about 10 or 11 years old I'd guess - Pipes and Concertina) were asked to play a set, and they played two tunes, one which I sort of knew but couldn't name, and one that I swear I've never heard before in my life. That can't be right, can it?
I once sat and listened to a little (2 men and a son) session in Cavan, and chatted to the musicians for a while, and they were saying 'go get your flute,' and I pointed out to them that I didn't know a single tune they'd played, not one - though some sounded like they might be related to tunes I knew. They said that that was because they were all local tunes, but they'd be happy to play tunes I'd know if I'd just fetch that bloody flute. I explained that I'd actually rather sit and listen as it wasn't often you got the chance to hear such a regional selection. Of course they then played a whole slew of tunes they knew I'd know, to wind me up, before going back to the local stuff(!)
Re: How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
I wonder who in the Cavan Brigade you played with, Mark, as they are a sound bunch of skins, the ones I've met and played with anyways - don't ask me for names apart from the Mcdermotts, Enda and the brother(s).
Now, to sound like the "soaring" @rseh0le which I've been recently accused of being, but which I don't think I am, but I'll let posterity judge that one, may I throw a different complexion on this. So you go to a strange session. Before long you suss out the main players (not necessarily "appointed" [self- or ordained]). You realise these guy(s)/guyess(es) are the only ones playing a decent wadge of the more arcane tunes that you yourself know (erm, maybe the odd Liz Carroll tune perchance? ...though as great a fiddle player as she is, certainly not all her compositions would be my cup of tea for newly invented tunes. Paddy O'Brien the Younger fills that bill more so for me.) Anyway, you lash in along with these guys. You soon find you've inadvertantly formed a clique. The Kesh/Rakes of Mallow/strummers/bodhr...etc brigade are out of it. You feel pangs of guilt that you've disrupted some local little gathering... But the strong players are egging you on.
-Do another set! Fierce mighty tunes there altogether!
Same as if another out of town half-decent player came along to your local sesh and started rearing into a few tunes. I for one would want to hear more. As long as they were down to earth about it. All that session etiquette bollox can go shag itself if you get the chance to play with nice players.
Slagging of me will commence in precisely 18.7 secs from now.
Re: How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
I don't know who these guys were Danny, they might have been from 'over the border' in Fermanagh(?) This was in Blacklion, which is right on the border. I've met then a couple of times, but never played with them, mainly because I've always been completely trolleyed(!) One of these days I'll have some tunes with them and I'm sure we'll have a high old time!
Re: How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
I'd say I'm a solid 2.5. I know about 1/2 the tunes at 1/2 the visited sessions. . But I define "Know" as being comfortably able to play it, as a personal expression ( vs just trolling out a series of notes). I also frequently sit out because I want to hear how someone else does it.
A friend of mine moved to a far city and joined a local session for a year, he reports that the top 50 frequently played tunes in both sessions were the same except for 4 tunes. On the other hand, y'all are always mentioning several "trite" tunes that have never heard.
Sorry, I can't slag you Indie, I think you ought to be able to soar.
Wish I could. All these people that think once you can handle the "yoke" you turn into a bully or ash, um, er ...pit need to examine their own envy.
I realize yr personality needs some abuse, and I am very much aware of the bonding value of the occasional "slag", but I can't help you at the moment. Sorry.
Re: How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
I find myself listening a lot (not as much as before). I jot down the name of tunes I really like and learn them before the next seesion and start them when it is my turn. But I am very selective. I go for distinctive tunes. If I hear a new tune but know five others that sound just like it, I won't bother with it, concluding that I would rather spend time improving the similar ones better.
I know when learning a new language, there is a number of vocabulary words that once you reach you are fluent in the language. How many tunes should one know? Does any one count how many they know? Is there a *must know* list?
I find it disappointing that people would keep playing obscure tunes when they see someone who has been sitting there idle for a long period of time. Surely there are wonderful tunes that everyone would know. I sat in a session like that. Someone brought his students and just played obscure tunes that only they knew. Some great musicians were just sitting there idle (so it wasn't just me). Not a lot of fun. I guess I don't understand the mindset.
So what is the number required to be fluent. Does anyone have a *minimum* list of tunes one should be expected to know?
Re: How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
I enjoy players who are considerate of the group's needs. Sometimes, after a string of tunes that only one or two of us know.... it'd be nice to start a batch of tunes that most of us know...
Re: How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
How strange of a session are we talking about. I walked in on one with an Alzhiemer's granny on bass saxophone, and this other guy had a nice collection of percussion eggy thangs. I hid my instruments, had a few drinks and left before they even started.
Re: How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
Michael, you needn't subject yourself to that sort of thing anymore. Two ITM stalwarts from the Bay Area have moved to your neck of the woods. They originally were from Clare and play concertina and fiddle. The scene up there should improve greatly now.
Re: How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
Pete, Isn't that the glorious thing about going to places like Miltown, where you get the chance to wander round strange sessions, full of strange musicians playing a wonderful mix of tunes, which can often include loads of new tunes to 'your' ears.
It should give you a lift every time & I'm always delighted to run into those sessions.
The other side of the coin - I remember, when I lived in Dublin ( namedropping again - sorry! ) heading off to Miltown, & while I would spend the whole week exploring strange sessions & learning new tunes there were a bunch of guys from a certain Dublin pub who sat for the whole week in the corner of the one pub down there, just playing with themselves, going through their same weekly reportoire over & over again.
They would all go home thinking they'd had a great time - but just think of ALL that they missed!
No, there is no 'shame' in not knowing tunes in a session, there is simply 'joy' in hearing new tunes.
Anyone who can't relax & listen to good new stuff is missing the point, I think.
Now players who 'do' get up my nose, are those guys who sit in a crowded session & insist on starting long sets of unknown tunes & blocking everyone else out while they put on their little shows, playing with themselves. They are a menace!
An odd set like that from someone might be OK if they are really good player but most players have the wit to follow one unusual tune with a more common one, to bring other musicians in.
As for distance, I'm sure if I headed up to Derry or Belfast I'd spend most of the night scratching my Aris, but what odds if I get to hear great music.
- and don't worry about any nurd who might be sitting saying to themselves 'Huh that guy doesn't know much music does he', cause I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want to play with them, anyway.
How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
Finally managed to attend one of the "Return to Camden Town" sessions - how embarrassing ! ( Not the people, just me. ) They weren't even playing the tunes at breakneck speed
Could barely play/recognise a tune, at least I can always strum along on the 'zouk, SO on flute and whistle has to know them, or get out the percussion.
So, a survey, and I'll draw up a bar diagram;
Rate yourself from one (novice) to five (whiz-kid) and give an average percentage of how many tunes you can play when you go along to strange/new sessions.
I'd like some reassurance that I'm not the only one who can go just a few miles and find himself in unfamiliar repertoires.
Oh, I'd rate myself as 1& 1/2 and about 2% on last Saturdays' perfromance.
# Posted on November 1st 2005 by Guernsey Pete
Re: How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
you'll need to give everyone a "noodle rating" also, and plot that on a z axis
# Posted on November 1st 2005 by ...
Re: How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
I think many of us are in the same boat. More than would care to admit, I suspect. That's why they stick to the same regular sessions and blame the "other half" for only letting them out once or twice a week.
It's probably a good thing that repertoires do vary from place to place. I'm afraid that I couldn't give an accurate percentage. Sometimes, I'll know 90% + but other times about 2%. As you say, the tunes aren't necessarily difficult but just not known to me (us).
Folk/trad music festivals can be unpredicatable. You can sometimes find sessions where everyone sticks to the well known tunes so as to be inclusive but you'll also get smaller "splinter groups" where the choice of tunes are much more obscure.
# Posted on November 1st 2005 by Johnny Jay
Re: How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
It's easy to feel comfortable attending a regular session with the same group of people where the repertoire changes slowly. Going to a new session or a festival session can make you lose confidence in your ability if you're not used to sitting out. I agree with John about festival sessions - the splinter groups are usually caused by established groups taking over a session and playing their own repertoire - but it can be equally frustrating if the session plays only really well-known tunes because I like to come away with a new tune or two or to find I could play something I didn't think I knew well enough!.
# Posted on November 1st 2005 by Tarrantella
Re: How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
Probably neither of my two.
# Posted on November 1st 2005 by showaddydadito
Re: How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
Being new to the London session scene, and keen to sample as many sessions as I can get to, I've been in the same situation more often in the past two months than I care to remember.
And it is disheartening.
Without exception,the regulars have been extremely friendly and generous - but usually the only tunes I get to play at a session are the ones I'm asked to start. Conan will tell you how ebullient I got at the Porterhouse last week when I managed to join in on EIGHT whole tunes over four hours! Had a grin plastered to my face the whole way home that evening.
The rest of the time, I just sit there with my flute on my lap, doing my best neither to noodle, nor to drink too much, which invariably leads me to noodle more.
Actually, I think the Greater London tune repertoire can be cracked. It'll take a while, though.
# Posted on November 1st 2005 by Q
Re: How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
What a refreshing post.
I have sat in on sessions where I seriously considered using my flute for a straw just to give it some use already for gosh sakes alive anyway.
I could be done you know.
Probably could use a good rinse.
# Posted on November 1st 2005 by bt
Re: How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
Having sampled many sessions in Ireland and Britain even before picking up an instrument, I know what tunes are popular in most places. On average, I can recognise almost 80% of the tunes and can play more than half wherever I go.
I played in the Porterhouse session when Conan was away for Milltown. It was definitely the nicest session I've ever joined as a visitor.
# Posted on November 1st 2005 by slainte
Re: How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
Well, it was nice not because Conan was away, of course. I felt really comfortable there chatting with other players as if we had known each other for a while.
# Posted on November 1st 2005 by slainte
Re: How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
I think concerning yourself with how many tunes you know at a session you're visiting can interfere with your enjoyment. There are too many factors to come up with a meaningful percentage. On my last trip to Ireland there were some sessions where I knew nearly every tune, and others where I only knew a handful. On this recent trip I certainly knew more than any previous trip, but that's to be expected since I'm learning new tunes all the time. The key to enjoying yourself, in my opinion, is not to expect to know more than a few tunes, and be prepared to do a lot of listening. The only time you should really worry about how many tunes know is in relation to the regular sessions you go to. But it's really better just to concentrate on the tunes you enjoy playing. As for me, I’ve been at it for over 20 years now and I still don’t feel that I know enough tunes.
# Posted on November 1st 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
The lowest number of tunes I could play was 2, at a fairly serious session in Denver. And the number of tunes at some of the sessions I have attended in Boston have also been quite low--especially those sessions where Irish immigrants make up more than half the players, and the reels come pouring forth in mass quantitities. Nearer home I do better--because I know the folks involved, I usually know at least half the tunes in most of the sessions I attend around RI, and more at my home session.
I myself would recommend avoiding the temptation to use a guitar or some other accompaniment instrument on strange tunes--get to know them first.
Listening can be a lot of fun.
# Posted on November 1st 2005 by AlBrown
Re: How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
There's a lot of tunes out there. Round here, the difference in repertoire between sessions in Slough and Oxford is a bit scary. I went to the Dave Williams Memorial weekend at the weekend, and at a little session between workshops, two young girls (about 10 or 11 years old I'd guess - Pipes and Concertina) were asked to play a set, and they played two tunes, one which I sort of knew but couldn't name, and one that I swear I've never heard before in my life. That can't be right, can it?
I once sat and listened to a little (2 men and a son) session in Cavan, and chatted to the musicians for a while, and they were saying 'go get your flute,' and I pointed out to them that I didn't know a single tune they'd played, not one - though some sounded like they might be related to tunes I knew. They said that that was because they were all local tunes, but they'd be happy to play tunes I'd know if I'd just fetch that bloody flute. I explained that I'd actually rather sit and listen as it wasn't often you got the chance to hear such a regional selection. Of course they then played a whole slew of tunes they knew I'd know, to wind me up, before going back to the local stuff(!)
# Posted on November 1st 2005 by Ottery
Re: How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
I wonder who in the Cavan Brigade you played with, Mark, as they are a sound bunch of skins, the ones I've met and played with anyways - don't ask me for names apart from the Mcdermotts, Enda and the brother(s).
Now, to sound like the "soaring" @rseh0le which I've been recently accused of being, but which I don't think I am, but I'll let posterity judge that one, may I throw a different complexion on this. So you go to a strange session. Before long you suss out the main players (not necessarily "appointed" [self- or ordained]). You realise these guy(s)/guyess(es) are the only ones playing a decent wadge of the more arcane tunes that you yourself know (erm, maybe the odd Liz Carroll tune perchance? ...though as great a fiddle player as she is, certainly not all her compositions would be my cup of tea for newly invented tunes. Paddy O'Brien the Younger fills that bill more so for me.) Anyway, you lash in along with these guys. You soon find you've inadvertantly formed a clique. The Kesh/Rakes of Mallow/strummers/bodhr...etc brigade are out of it. You feel pangs of guilt that you've disrupted some local little gathering... But the strong players are egging you on.
-Do another set! Fierce mighty tunes there altogether!
Same as if another out of town half-decent player came along to your local sesh and started rearing into a few tunes. I for one would want to hear more. As long as they were down to earth about it. All that session etiquette bollox can go shag itself if you get the chance to play with nice players.
Slagging of me will commence in precisely 18.7 secs from now.
Bring it on, all you politically correct w@nkers!
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by Rudall the time
Re: How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
5 plus for me. A bodhran does have certain advantages. It's great leaning across and saying " do you not know that one Liam óg?"
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by bodhran bliss
Re: How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
I don't know who these guys were Danny, they might have been from 'over the border' in Fermanagh(?) This was in Blacklion, which is right on the border. I've met then a couple of times, but never played with them, mainly because I've always been completely trolleyed(!) One of these days I'll have some tunes with them and I'm sure we'll have a high old time!
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by Ottery
Re: How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
I'd say I'm a solid 2.5. I know about 1/2 the tunes at 1/2 the visited sessions. . But I define "Know" as being comfortably able to play it, as a personal expression ( vs just trolling out a series of notes). I also frequently sit out because I want to hear how someone else does it.
A friend of mine moved to a far city and joined a local session for a year, he reports that the top 50 frequently played tunes in both sessions were the same except for 4 tunes. On the other hand, y'all are always mentioning several "trite" tunes that have never heard.
Sorry, I can't slag you Indie, I think you ought to be able to soar.
Wish I could. All these people that think once you can handle the "yoke" you turn into a bully or ash, um, er ...pit need to examine their own envy.
I realize yr personality needs some abuse, and I am very much aware of the bonding value of the occasional "slag", but I can't help you at the moment. Sorry.
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by Owell Mabee
Re: How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
I find myself listening a lot (not as much as before). I jot down the name of tunes I really like and learn them before the next seesion and start them when it is my turn. But I am very selective. I go for distinctive tunes. If I hear a new tune but know five others that sound just like it, I won't bother with it, concluding that I would rather spend time improving the similar ones better.
I know when learning a new language, there is a number of vocabulary words that once you reach you are fluent in the language. How many tunes should one know? Does any one count how many they know? Is there a *must know* list?
I have tried to learn all the tunes in John Walsh's collection ( http://www.ceolas.org/pub/tunes/tunes.pdf/SessionTunes.pdf). for participating in sessions. This has helped my participate more.
I find it disappointing that people would keep playing obscure tunes when they see someone who has been sitting there idle for a long period of time. Surely there are wonderful tunes that everyone would know. I sat in a session like that. Someone brought his students and just played obscure tunes that only they knew. Some great musicians were just sitting there idle (so it wasn't just me). Not a lot of fun. I guess I don't understand the mindset.
So what is the number required to be fluent. Does anyone have a *minimum* list of tunes one should be expected to know?
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by feardearg
Re: How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
The minimum is one tune that you can play competently. Any less and you really might as well sit at the bar with the rest of the flies.
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by Ottery
Re: How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
I enjoy players who are considerate of the group's needs. Sometimes, after a string of tunes that only one or two of us know.... it'd be nice to start a batch of tunes that most of us know...
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by nonesuch
Re: How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
How strange of a session are we talking about. I walked in on one with an Alzhiemer's granny on bass saxophone, and this other guy had a nice collection of percussion eggy thangs. I hid my instruments, had a few drinks and left before they even started.
# Posted on November 6th 2005 by CeolCairdeas
Re: How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
Michael, you needn't subject yourself to that sort of thing anymore. Two ITM stalwarts from the Bay Area have moved to your neck of the woods. They originally were from Clare and play concertina and fiddle. The scene up there should improve greatly now.
# Posted on November 6th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
Pete, Isn't that the glorious thing about going to places like Miltown, where you get the chance to wander round strange sessions, full of strange musicians playing a wonderful mix of tunes, which can often include loads of new tunes to 'your' ears.
) heading off to Miltown, & while I would spend the whole week exploring strange sessions & learning new tunes there were a bunch of guys from a certain Dublin pub who sat for the whole week in the corner of the one pub down there, just playing with themselves, going through their same weekly reportoire over & over again.
It should give you a lift every time & I'm always delighted to run into those sessions.
The other side of the coin - I remember, when I lived in Dublin ( namedropping again - sorry!
They would all go home thinking they'd had a great time - but just think of ALL that they missed!
No, there is no 'shame' in not knowing tunes in a session, there is simply 'joy' in hearing new tunes.
Anyone who can't relax & listen to good new stuff is missing the point, I think.
Now players who 'do' get up my nose, are those guys who sit in a crowded session & insist on starting long sets of unknown tunes & blocking everyone else out while they put on their little shows, playing with themselves. They are a menace!
An odd set like that from someone might be OK if they are really good player but most players have the wit to follow one unusual tune with a more common one, to bring other musicians in.
As for distance, I'm sure if I headed up to Derry or Belfast I'd spend most of the night scratching my Aris, but what odds if I get to hear great music.
- and don't worry about any nurd who might be sitting saying to themselves 'Huh that guy doesn't know much music does he', cause I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want to play with them, anyway.
# Posted on November 6th 2005 by Ptarmigan
Re: How many tunes can you play at a strange session ?
If you dont know a tune,how about just picking up a couple of phrases,and just playing them as they come 'round.It works for me.
# Posted on November 11th 2005 by Grant Perry