Howdy yeah all!I´ve been learning Irish tunes now for approx two years,formerly I played jazz fusion zappa influnced stuff.
Being a guitarist I was interested in the discipline needed particularly with the plectrum in executing some of the fast stuff accurately.
I heard Brian Hughes the Whistle player playing "the ships are sailing" and the "new mown meadows".He plays them very fast with a lot of intricate ornamentation,,so I thought how do I copy that?!!!
I recorded the two tunes on to a Sony mini disk which just happens to be able to slow the tunes down 5% 10% 20% 33% downt to 50% without changing the pitch.Using this method I was able to pick out the notes.I am now 33% able to accurately keep up with him!,,a great wee tool for learning difficult tunes.
anyone have any other tips?
I can read but not very quickly.
Gordon Bennett! I hadn't heard about this new Sony mini disc machine which actually slows down the pitch - Wow! Guess I must have been faffin' around on this bleak moor for longer than I thought!
Wonder what else I've missed?
Anyone landed on the Moon yet?
If a fast new tune I like is played in a session I try to listen to its "shape", and get a first approximation - which may be not much more than the beginning and end of each part. If the tune gets played a lot then I can refine the approximations until eventually (weeks later) I've got it - more or less. The problem with going to the printed dots to fill in the details is that the details often don't correspond exactly to what is played in the session, so I tend not to do that so much now.
Basically, it's just a matter of listening a lot and not being in too much of a hurry.
I forgot to add that I don’t use, and never have used, slow-down methods to learn tunes. The only time I ever slow a tune down on the computer is if I’m transcribing it (perhaps for uploading on this website) and I need to get at the finer detail.
In the olden days,when the fax machines were steam powered and before Mick Jagger had his bus pass,I used to play 33 rmp albums at 16 rpm.Half the speed and an octave lower.Things were simpler then.
I use the slowdowner from www.ronimusic,com . You can alter the speed and/or the tuning (handy if you want to play along on your D flute with someone tuned to eb) and can also loop difficult parts continuously until you can work out what the musician on the cd is actually doing.
Well with the Brian Hughes tunes "the ships are sailing" and "new mown meadows" it took about 1 and half weeks to copy the notes and ornamentation and play it as he does on the recording,,without the Sony it would have taken months!if at all.I also had a fairly accurate notaion for the ships are sailing tune combining the two I got that one in under a week.
In the old days, an obliging musician *might* play the tune for you again at a slower pace so that you could pick it up.
Of course, there were always fast sessions which you didn't enter unless you were up to it. However, there seemed to be more of the "relaxed arrangements" where tunes could be "passed on", "swapped", and "taught". Obviously, you'd still have to quick to learn them this way. However, it wasn't just a case of having to "learn them on the fly" or bring in recording machines.
I realise that there's still beginner's sessions where you can do this sort of thing but it used to be a more universal practice.
"Or perhaps you just envy them, there HUGE salaries, their ENORMOUS holidays, their EASY LIFE" (Quoth the Ptarmigan, ever more...)
Don't forget to add to the list the tremendous RESPECT we get from admiring parents, the strong SUPPORT we get from administrators, and the unqualified ADMIRATION and COOPERATION we get from our budding scholars!
I've just discovered the amazing FREE 'Best Practice' tool for the PC - pop a CD in, select a track and it plays it with sliders to allow the pitch and speed to be altered independetly in real time - used it just this weekend to learn a tune in a couple of hours. Its available here http://www.xs4all.nl/~mp2004/bp/ (I am in no way associated with the product or the author, I just love to champion small, useful, free tools!)
I use sheet music to get the bits that fly past me too fast, and put ornaments in at my discretion. Usually I have enough trouble with the notes, so I ornament pretty lightly on dance tunes.
I find I learn tunes tunes very solidly when I am on a long drive. with whistle in hand & mouth, and steering wheel on the knee, I just rewind the tricky parts until they sink in.
I downloaded the Amazing Slowdowner a couple of years ago expecting that it would help me figure out some tricky tunes, but I still haven't gotten around to using it. When I want to learn a new tune, I listen to it over and over and over on my long commute, stopping just short of "ad nauseum", until I have it in my head. Once I can whistle the tune, I can (theoretically) transfer it to an instrument. If there's an ornament in the recording that eludes me, I substitute one I already know and make a note that it would be interesting to some day figure out exactly what I'm hearing. There, I just made another note that it would be interesting to actually go back and look at thirty years of those notes.
"26 years and still smiling at 7:30 AM"
You are surely a saint, Mr. Pianotuner. I lasted two years in the classroom. Hardest job I've ever had. My wife is still at it after 35 years, but she is, it can fairly be said, quite daft.
The Amazing Slowdowner is really an amazing software. Learn how to use it and you will live at least 30 years longer. Well maybe not, but I use it every day for working on tunes.
The latest Quicktime Player (v. 7) from Apple will do slowing down as well. It's free (although, I think it only comes with iTunes install these days for Windows... Not sure about that though).
I don't think it sounds quite as good as the Amazing Slow Downer when you slow a tune down, but it's free.
I am just getting to the point in my playing now that I appreciate learning tunes from full speed (or close to, at least) recordings or sessions.
But sometimes it helps to be able to slow it down to catch the tricky parts, but as mentioned previously, it's best to know the "shape" of the tune before you try to figure out individual notes.
I have used audacity, cool edit to slow down for transcription. Its better than the old variable speed tape. But its still fiddly. I'm trying the demo version of Transcribe! to see if I want to fork out the money. Its designed for transcription, meaning its possible to mark parts of the tune and cycle etc. Not sure yet. I'll check out that other free tool. Audacity is free as well.
I have used amazing slow downer very successfully.
I have a full version of Cool Edit Pro but ASD is far, far easier for doing what it says - slowing stuff down - as it reacts almost instantly if you want to change speed / pitch etc.
I don't really manage to play along with it - rather, I've found it a lot easier to sit and notate with manuscript paper, and then learn to play the actual notes from the MS paper, finally referring back to the (full-speed) original to get it back from being "a bunch of notes) to something like music.
I have tried out most of the slowdown software on the market and haven't found anything that does it any better than good old Barfly! Between the Session and Digital Tradition, there are very few trad tunes I can't find online. I would recommend Barfly over all the other commercial software to anyone just starting to learn these tunes.
Techniques for figuring out fast tunes.
Techniques for figuring out fast tunes.
Howdy yeah all!I´ve been learning Irish tunes now for approx two years,formerly I played jazz fusion zappa influnced stuff.
Being a guitarist I was interested in the discipline needed particularly with the plectrum in executing some of the fast stuff accurately.
I heard Brian Hughes the Whistle player playing "the ships are sailing" and the "new mown meadows".He plays them very fast with a lot of intricate ornamentation,,so I thought how do I copy that?!!!
I recorded the two tunes on to a Sony mini disk which just happens to be able to slow the tunes down 5% 10% 20% 33% downt to 50% without changing the pitch.Using this method I was able to pick out the notes.I am now 33% able to accurately keep up with him!,,a great wee tool for learning difficult tunes.
anyone have any other tips?
I can read but not very quickly.
# Posted on September 27th 2005 by Takamine Bob
Re: Techniques for figuring out fast tunes.
I mostly use Audacity, in which you can also slow down and keeping the pitch. Didn't knew you can do that with a Sony MD, i'll try it with mine.
# Posted on September 27th 2005 by petercnm
Re: Techniques for figuring out fast tunes.
Gordon Bennett! I hadn't heard about this new Sony mini disc machine which actually slows down the pitch - Wow! Guess I must have been faffin' around on this bleak moor for longer than I thought!
Wonder what else I've missed?
Anyone landed on the Moon yet?
Naw, what would be the point of that!
# Posted on September 27th 2005 by Ptarmigan
Re: Techniques for figuring out fast tunes.
Then pete has the audacity to come along & tell me you can do it on your computer too!
I really must throw my old Radiogram out & see what's new on the market.
My arm was getting bloody sore anyway, turning that blasted handle every time I wanted to listen to my latest 78!
# Posted on September 27th 2005 by Ptarmigan
Re: Techniques for figuring out fast tunes.
Mr Snowy Grouse, You're not a teacher by any chance? Your sarcasm is maybe up to teacher standard.
# Posted on September 27th 2005 by llig leahcim
Re: Techniques for figuring out fast tunes.
Oh No, I couldn't even dream of ever becoming that clever!
Drat! done it again!
# Posted on September 27th 2005 by Ptarmigan
Re: Techniques for figuring out fast tunes.
Hey michael, there was, unless I'm very much mistaken, even a wee touch of teacher banter in your own reply!
By the way, what makes you so bitter about teachers?
I smell a tale of abuse, torture - bothy physical & mental. Years in the corner with that old book on your head!
Or perhaps you just envy them, there HUGE salaries, their ENORMOUS holidays, their EASY LIFE!
Come on, we need to know?
Oh blast, look at the time, I'm due in St. Patrick's P S in 40 mins!
I look forward to reading your reply at break.
# Posted on September 27th 2005 by Ptarmigan
Re: Techniques for figuring out fast tunes.
tee he, "abuse, torture", why yes, and more. A whole precious childhood ruined by withering sarcasm
# Posted on September 27th 2005 by llig leahcim
Re: Techniques for figuring out fast tunes.
With the Sony mz-nh900 it can be done.The notes remain audibile but with a metallic "klang"
# Posted on September 27th 2005 by Takamine Bob
Re: Techniques for figuring out fast tunes.
I suppose it doesn't help just to listen very fast?
# Posted on September 27th 2005 by showaddydadito
Re: Techniques for figuring out fast tunes.
If a fast new tune I like is played in a session I try to listen to its "shape", and get a first approximation - which may be not much more than the beginning and end of each part. If the tune gets played a lot then I can refine the approximations until eventually (weeks later) I've got it - more or less. The problem with going to the printed dots to fill in the details is that the details often don't correspond exactly to what is played in the session, so I tend not to do that so much now.
Basically, it's just a matter of listening a lot and not being in too much of a hurry.
Trevor
# Posted on September 27th 2005 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Techniques for figuring out fast tunes.
I forgot to add that I don’t use, and never have used, slow-down methods to learn tunes. The only time I ever slow a tune down on the computer is if I’m transcribing it (perhaps for uploading on this website) and I need to get at the finer detail.
Trevor
# Posted on September 27th 2005 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Techniques for figuring out fast tunes.
In the olden days,when the fax machines were steam powered and before Mick Jagger had his bus pass,I used to play 33 rmp albums at 16 rpm.Half the speed and an octave lower.Things were simpler then.
# Posted on September 27th 2005 by dafydd
Re: Techniques for figuring out fast tunes.
I use the slowdowner from www.ronimusic,com . You can alter the speed and/or the tuning (handy if you want to play along on your D flute with someone tuned to eb) and can also loop difficult parts continuously until you can work out what the musician on the cd is actually doing.
# Posted on September 27th 2005 by murcu
Re: Techniques for figuring out fast tunes.
Well with the Brian Hughes tunes "the ships are sailing" and "new mown meadows" it took about 1 and half weeks to copy the notes and ornamentation and play it as he does on the recording,,without the Sony it would have taken months!if at all.I also had a fairly accurate notaion for the ships are sailing tune combining the two I got that one in under a week.
# Posted on September 27th 2005 by Takamine Bob
Re: Techniques for figuring out fast tunes.
In the old days, an obliging musician *might* play the tune for you again at a slower pace so that you could pick it up.
Of course, there were always fast sessions which you didn't enter unless you were up to it. However, there seemed to be more of the "relaxed arrangements" where tunes could be "passed on", "swapped", and "taught". Obviously, you'd still have to quick to learn them this way. However, it wasn't just a case of having to "learn them on the fly" or bring in recording machines.
I realise that there's still beginner's sessions where you can do this sort of thing but it used to be a more universal practice.
# Posted on September 27th 2005 by John J.
Re: Techniques for figuring out fast tunes.
"Call and answer" is part of the tradition of learning folk music (and almost any other aural tradition come to that).
We all have/had to learn somehow (even learn how to pick up tunes by ear).
# Posted on September 27th 2005 by JonB
Re: Techniques for figuring out fast tunes.
"Or perhaps you just envy them, there HUGE salaries, their ENORMOUS holidays, their EASY LIFE" (Quoth the Ptarmigan, ever more...)
Don't forget to add to the list the tremendous RESPECT we get from admiring parents, the strong SUPPORT we get from administrators, and the unqualified ADMIRATION and COOPERATION we get from our budding scholars!
26 years and still smiling at 7:30 AM
# Posted on September 27th 2005 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: Techniques for figuring out fast tunes.
I've just discovered the amazing FREE 'Best Practice' tool for the PC - pop a CD in, select a track and it plays it with sliders to allow the pitch and speed to be altered independetly in real time - used it just this weekend to learn a tune in a couple of hours. Its available here http://www.xs4all.nl/~mp2004/bp/ (I am in no way associated with the product or the author, I just love to champion small, useful, free tools!)
# Posted on September 27th 2005 by NeilC
Re: Techniques for figuring out fast tunes.
I use sheet music to get the bits that fly past me too fast, and put ornaments in at my discretion. Usually I have enough trouble with the notes, so I ornament pretty lightly on dance tunes.
# Posted on September 27th 2005 by AlBrown
Re: Techniques for figuring out fast tunes.
I find I learn tunes tunes very solidly when I am on a long drive. with whistle in hand & mouth, and steering wheel on the knee, I just rewind the tricky parts until they sink in.
# Posted on September 27th 2005 by wormdiet
Re: Techniques for figuring out fast tunes.
I downloaded the Amazing Slowdowner a couple of years ago expecting that it would help me figure out some tricky tunes, but I still haven't gotten around to using it. When I want to learn a new tune, I listen to it over and over and over on my long commute, stopping just short of "ad nauseum", until I have it in my head. Once I can whistle the tune, I can (theoretically) transfer it to an instrument. If there's an ornament in the recording that eludes me, I substitute one I already know and make a note that it would be interesting to some day figure out exactly what I'm hearing. There, I just made another note that it would be interesting to actually go back and look at thirty years of those notes.
"26 years and still smiling at 7:30 AM"
You are surely a saint, Mr. Pianotuner. I lasted two years in the classroom. Hardest job I've ever had. My wife is still at it after 35 years, but she is, it can fairly be said, quite daft.
# Posted on September 27th 2005 by Bob himself
Re: Techniques for figuring out fast tunes.
The Amazing Slowdowner is really an amazing software. Learn how to use it and you will live at least 30 years longer. Well maybe not, but I use it every day for working on tunes.
# Posted on September 27th 2005 by Cammy
Re: Techniques for figuring out fast tunes.
The latest Quicktime Player (v. 7) from Apple will do slowing down as well. It's free (although, I think it only comes with iTunes install these days for Windows... Not sure about that though).
I don't think it sounds quite as good as the Amazing Slow Downer when you slow a tune down, but it's free.
I am just getting to the point in my playing now that I appreciate learning tunes from full speed (or close to, at least) recordings or sessions.
But sometimes it helps to be able to slow it down to catch the tricky parts, but as mentioned previously, it's best to know the "shape" of the tune before you try to figure out individual notes.
Pete
# Posted on September 27th 2005 by Reverend
Re: Techniques for figuring out fast tunes.
I have used audacity, cool edit to slow down for transcription. Its better than the old variable speed tape. But its still fiddly. I'm trying the demo version of Transcribe! to see if I want to fork out the money. Its designed for transcription, meaning its possible to mark parts of the tune and cycle etc. Not sure yet. I'll check out that other free tool. Audacity is free as well.
# Posted on September 29th 2005 by NeilBarr
Re: Techniques for figuring out fast tunes.
I have used amazing slow downer very successfully.
I have a full version of Cool Edit Pro but ASD is far, far easier for doing what it says - slowing stuff down - as it reacts almost instantly if you want to change speed / pitch etc.
I don't really manage to play along with it - rather, I've found it a lot easier to sit and notate with manuscript paper, and then learn to play the actual notes from the MS paper, finally referring back to the (full-speed) original to get it back from being "a bunch of notes) to something like music.
# Posted on September 29th 2005 by Mark Harmer
Re: Techniques for figuring out fast tunes.
I have tried out most of the slowdown software on the market and haven't found anything that does it any better than good old Barfly! Between the Session and Digital Tradition, there are very few trad tunes I can't find online. I would recommend Barfly over all the other commercial software to anyone just starting to learn these tunes.
# Posted on September 29th 2005 by Dave McGrath