It seems that invigourating humour that many of us know so well, that's right, INSTRUMENT ACQUISITION SYNDROME, has once again found its way to myself, and I'm in a bit of a pickle.
For awhile now I've wanted a long-scale bouzouki to play backup and counterpoint stuff. I've found several makers who can make beautiful, fully customized instruments for me for very good prices. But with an instrument that long, won't playing melody and harmony be rather difficult? "DO I NEED ANOTHER INSTRUMENT" says I?
So I have two other ideas for instruments that would allow me to play melody and harmony with relative ease, compared to flatpicking guitar (what I'm doing now) and doing the same on a long-scale bouzouki (what I'd be doing in a few months). They are:
1) Get a tenor banjo......but what brand? what scale length?
2) Get a shorter-scale "octave mandolin"...."...scale length?
Any suggestions? Anybody out there who owns BOTH a short-scale octave mandolin AND a long-scale bouzouki? Is it possible to play melody and harmony stuff on a long-scale after all?
I play octave mandolin, using it primarily for melody rather than accompaniment. My Freshwater instrument has a 21 3/8 inch scale length and is very good for melody playing. Much longer would be tougher, especially with string sweaks. Fylde makes a 21" model and my Trinity College is 20 1/2". The Trinity College is fine for the price, but the narrow neck made chording difficult.
It seems that a lot of American made octave mandolins have scale lengths in the 23 - 23 1/2 inch range. I have no idea why. If you are going to go that long, you might as well get a bouzouki, because IMHO melody playing is going to be difficult without making a lot of string noise.
If your after volume go with the banjo. I've got a trinity college octave and I don't take it to sessions. If yer tinkling wee mandolin gets drowned out the octave won't do much better. Fiddles won't be as much of a problem because you are in a lower range but a guitar will certainly challenge your volume.
Iv'e gone over to the dark side and play an old Gibson banjomandolin Not a beautiful sound by itself but playing with anywhere from 3 to 8 accordions it sounds like a mandolin. I've also jammed with sax and clarinets and I can still hear myself.Lest the trad police are listening the clarinet and consenting saxes were in no way involved in committing ITM.
When I have the time to explain why a 'zouk is an Irish 'zouk, I include the comment that the tenor banjo was/is, frankly, raucous.
Do you want to play an instrument where everyone hears every note you play, but with a miniscule decay time and a displeasing tone ? ( IMHO ). This is why Donal Lunny started playing the 'zouk in the first place.
Also see previous question and answers.
PS Instrument Acquisition Syndrome is a recognised psychological disorder, frequently defined by ones' SO, as in "Not another bloody instrument ? ! ".
There is no permanent cure, but monitored use ( of the "Sell" facility ONLY ) of ebay may help reduce the symptoms a little.......
The best instrument for those with G.ear A.cquisition S.yndrome must be the whistle. Even the high-end ones are cheaper than a dirt cheap fiddle, harp, pipe, guita, whatever.
Speaking of banjoes, I had the pleasant experience this weekend of playing with a good banjoista and his lovely-sounding instrument. One of his secrets was that the tension on his (banjo) head was a bit looser than normal. The sound was mellower. It was nice.
My Phil Crump B-II has a 25.4" scale, same as my guitar. When I first wanted a zouk, I wanted the longer scale. I play chords and cross-picking, but not single-note melodies in the usual sense, so the easier access of a shorter scale didn't mean any thing to me.
Since then, I have often wondered about, and desired, a shorter scale instrument, more for the timbral difference (more
'mandolin' sound than the deep sound I have now), than for the shorter scale per se. Now I think that that sound is more the result of the depth of the body, but that's another discussion... <GG>
As has been noted, 21" and 22" - 23" scales are very common, and depending on the design, both are capable of both swift and clean melodic playing and real, deep tone.
If I were to come to OM/zouk acquisition now, I'd choose a 22- or 23-inch instrument, if only for ease of carriage of the smaller size, now that I know more about how the design details can get me any sound I want. Just now, I feel that the long scale is fine, I didn't have to make much of an orientation change to learn to play it, but the value of the greater length seems negligible.
As for banjo, I love 'em, love the sound, love to play with a good player. For those of us coming from guitar, it doesn't sustain, so it doesn't chord very well. Or... it chords fine, you just have to keep that right hand working a lot and add all those notes to keep the chord in there... <GG> All the other plucked strings have more sustain, and therefore (IMO) are more appropriate for chordal play. If all you want to do is to play the melody, it's all the same.
The number of folks building really nice octave mandolins has really grown in the last few years, and the variations of high quality instruments has too. There are way too many options, way too many nice instruments we can have now...
I love/hate it. <GGG> I want a lot of them, too.
Specify subtype, Continuous, Episodic (Specify if there are no residual symptoms inter-episode) , Single Episode in partial remission, Single Episode in full remission. Other or Unspecified pattern.
.81 Disorganized Type
.82 Organized Type
.83 Guitar Specific
.84 Mandolin Specific
.85 Residual Type
All of these are well recognized by those of us in the mental health field and there is little that can be done with the exception of acquiring all the Lloyd Loars in the mandolin world and according to the Irish literature collecting all the Paragon banjos although the latter has not been through rigorous testing so far.
The answer to your question of which instrument to buy is clear, buy them all. Remember you can buy anything, just not every thing You have a house and car, right? So what's the
problem <G>
Banjo/Octave Mandolin Help
Banjo/Octave Mandolin Help
Greetings, fellow session goers!
It seems that invigourating humour that many of us know so well, that's right, INSTRUMENT ACQUISITION SYNDROME, has once again found its way to myself, and I'm in a bit of a pickle.
For awhile now I've wanted a long-scale bouzouki to play backup and counterpoint stuff. I've found several makers who can make beautiful, fully customized instruments for me for very good prices. But with an instrument that long, won't playing melody and harmony be rather difficult? "DO I NEED ANOTHER INSTRUMENT" says I?
So I have two other ideas for instruments that would allow me to play melody and harmony with relative ease, compared to flatpicking guitar (what I'm doing now) and doing the same on a long-scale bouzouki (what I'd be doing in a few months). They are:
1) Get a tenor banjo......but what brand? what scale length?
2) Get a shorter-scale "octave mandolin"...."...scale length?
Any suggestions? Anybody out there who owns BOTH a short-scale octave mandolin AND a long-scale bouzouki? Is it possible to play melody and harmony stuff on a long-scale after all?
Thanks,
Sean Earnest
Camp Hill, Pennsylvania, USA
# Posted on September 25th 2005 by DADGADLad
Re: Banjo/Octave Mandolin Help
I play octave mandolin, using it primarily for melody rather than accompaniment. My Freshwater instrument has a 21 3/8 inch scale length and is very good for melody playing. Much longer would be tougher, especially with string sweaks. Fylde makes a 21" model and my Trinity College is 20 1/2". The Trinity College is fine for the price, but the narrow neck made chording difficult.
It seems that a lot of American made octave mandolins have scale lengths in the 23 - 23 1/2 inch range. I have no idea why. If you are going to go that long, you might as well get a bouzouki, because IMHO melody playing is going to be difficult without making a lot of string noise.
# Posted on September 25th 2005 by Craymcla
Re: Banjo/Octave Mandolin Help
If your after volume go with the banjo. I've got a trinity college octave and I don't take it to sessions. If yer tinkling wee mandolin gets drowned out the octave won't do much better. Fiddles won't be as much of a problem because you are in a lower range but a guitar will certainly challenge your volume.
Iv'e gone over to the dark side and play an old Gibson banjomandolin Not a beautiful sound by itself but playing with anywhere from 3 to 8 accordions it sounds like a mandolin. I've also jammed with sax and clarinets and I can still hear myself.Lest the trad police are listening the clarinet and consenting saxes were in no way involved in committing ITM.
# Posted on September 25th 2005 by McMandolin
Re: Banjo/Octave Mandolin Help
When I have the time to explain why a 'zouk is an Irish 'zouk, I include the comment that the tenor banjo was/is, frankly, raucous.
Do you want to play an instrument where everyone hears every note you play, but with a miniscule decay time and a displeasing tone ? ( IMHO ). This is why Donal Lunny started playing the 'zouk in the first place.
Also see previous question and answers.
# Posted on September 26th 2005 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Banjo/Octave Mandolin Help
PS Instrument Acquisition Syndrome is a recognised psychological disorder, frequently defined by ones' SO, as in "Not another bloody instrument ? ! ".
There is no permanent cure, but monitored use ( of the "Sell" facility ONLY ) of ebay may help reduce the symptoms a little.......
# Posted on September 26th 2005 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Banjo/Octave Mandolin Help
For guitarists GAS can be an expensive problem
# Posted on September 26th 2005 by Cuso
Re: Banjo/Octave Mandolin Help
The best instrument for those with G.ear A.cquisition S.yndrome must be the whistle. Even the high-end ones are cheaper than a dirt cheap fiddle, harp, pipe, guita, whatever.
# Posted on September 26th 2005 by wormdiet
Re: Banjo/Octave Mandolin Help
Speaking of banjoes, I had the pleasant experience this weekend of playing with a good banjoista and his lovely-sounding instrument. One of his secrets was that the tension on his (banjo) head was a bit looser than normal. The sound was mellower. It was nice.
# Posted on September 26th 2005 by wormdiet
Re: Banjo/Octave Mandolin Help
My Phil Crump B-II has a 25.4" scale, same as my guitar. When I first wanted a zouk, I wanted the longer scale. I play chords and cross-picking, but not single-note melodies in the usual sense, so the easier access of a shorter scale didn't mean any thing to me.
Since then, I have often wondered about, and desired, a shorter scale instrument, more for the timbral difference (more
'mandolin' sound than the deep sound I have now), than for the shorter scale per se. Now I think that that sound is more the result of the depth of the body, but that's another discussion... <GG>
As has been noted, 21" and 22" - 23" scales are very common, and depending on the design, both are capable of both swift and clean melodic playing and real, deep tone.
If I were to come to OM/zouk acquisition now, I'd choose a 22- or 23-inch instrument, if only for ease of carriage of the smaller size, now that I know more about how the design details can get me any sound I want. Just now, I feel that the long scale is fine, I didn't have to make much of an orientation change to learn to play it, but the value of the greater length seems negligible.
As for banjo, I love 'em, love the sound, love to play with a good player. For those of us coming from guitar, it doesn't sustain, so it doesn't chord very well. Or... it chords fine, you just have to keep that right hand working a lot and add all those notes to keep the chord in there... <GG> All the other plucked strings have more sustain, and therefore (IMO) are more appropriate for chordal play. If all you want to do is to play the melody, it's all the same.
The number of folks building really nice octave mandolins has really grown in the last few years, and the variations of high quality instruments has too. There are way too many options, way too many nice instruments we can have now...
I love/hate it. <GGG> I want a lot of them, too.
stv
http://cdbaby.com/Culchies
# Posted on September 26th 2005 by stv culchie
Re: Banjo/Octave Mandolin Help
According to the DSM-IV:
Instrument Aquisition Syndrome 305..8x
Specify subtype, Continuous, Episodic (Specify if there are no residual symptoms inter-episode) , Single Episode in partial remission, Single Episode in full remission. Other or Unspecified pattern.
.81 Disorganized Type
.82 Organized Type
.83 Guitar Specific
.84 Mandolin Specific
.85 Residual Type
All of these are well recognized by those of us in the mental health field and there is little that can be done with the exception of acquiring all the Lloyd Loars in the mandolin world and according to the Irish literature collecting all the Paragon banjos although the latter has not been through rigorous testing so far.
The answer to your question of which instrument to buy is clear, buy them all. Remember you can buy anything, just not every thing You have a house and car, right? So what's the
problem <G>
MIchael J Keyes, MD
http://www.banjosessions.com/aug05/righthand.html
# Posted on September 26th 2005 by mikeyes