I'm thinking of getting one, with a view to being heard better at sessions as my wee mandolin has a bit of a hard time of it competing with the fiddles. So, does the bouzouki cut through better?
Subjectve question really, depends on the instrument, and whether youre playing melody or backing. For melody playing I don't think a bouzouki will cut through a noisy session situation any better than a mandolin apart from the fact that it's an octave lower and will find it's own niche in the overall sound. I think your problem is that you can't hear yourself, and unless you invest in a LOUD mandolin or Bouzouki, or play with your neck craned forward, that problem will still be there whether it's a mandolin or bouzouki. Others can probably hear you fine, and that is the mandolinist's dillema. I used to play a Gibson A1, but found that while it sounded wonderful, I could'nt hear myself in a session. I sold it and got a Joe Foley mandolin, and now I can hear myself just fine. Hope this helps.
I'm assuming that you are looking to play melody. A bouzouki is too long to play melody effectively. Concider an octave mandolin with a scale length somewhere near 21 inches.
The volume of an octave mandolin will vary from maker to maker, but mine seems plenty loud enough. However, since the octave mandolin is pitched an octave lower that the mandolin you are not competing in the same musical range as the fiddles. That helps make it distictive and not be lost in the din.
I'll second what Backer said about volume. You can definitely be louder that you think you are. I got accustomed to a hunched-over posture so I could hear myself better but when a friend played my octave mandolin and I was sitting opposite him, I was amazed at how loud it was.
I recently replaced the original on-board, side mounted EQ/pre-amp with a smaller unit. SIne the new unit was smaller, it didn't fill the hole that had been cut for that original unit. My plan was to make a walnut patch to fill it in. However, suddenly I could hear myself so much better though that (unsightly) hole that I left it alone. Eventually I will patch it, but I think I will cut some slots or gills to enable more of the sound to project up to my ears. I understand that a few instrument makers are starting to put slots in the side for this very reason.
there has been many talks/ diagreements on this subject, and buying a louder instrument is probably the answer, unless you have the desire to play a bouzouki or octave mandolin.
The bouzouki , for me , is not difficult to play with the long neck . I play melody and love it. The problems come more with neck width, than with length. I found my old Fylde archtop with 40mm at the nut impossible to play fast melody, but my Abnet at 32mm at the nut and only 40mm at the 12th fret, is a dream to play. SO TRY SOME OUT !!
I'm a bouzouki nut ( and a guitar neck and a fiddle bridge ) so I'd say go for the 'zouk, but yet you may find that after your mando the stretch seems prepostourous, hence the suggestions for trying the octave ( ie shorter scale ) mandola.
I reckon the 'zouk tone with the lighter strings on the longer scale add something the octave mando doesn't give, and you can always put a capo on the 'zouk, fifth fret gives you mandola tuning - CGda.
Trying to improve the volume on your current instrument may also be an option - I continue to advocate Red Henry's bridge developements, which improve all floating-bridge instruments. Or have you tried a resonator mandolin for sessions when you need the volume ? They are awesome.
You don't say what sort of mandolin you have. As Backer said, different mandolins have different volumes.
This is a topic that is discussed often on the Mandolin Cafe site (see links). A lot of BlueGrass players on that site are looking for a mandolin that will cut through banjos.
My deep-box Freshwater mandolin can make itself heard above quite a battery of instruments.
But, just to throw a spanner in your works, have you considered a citern? I don't play one but only mention it because you are looking at both a zouk and a mandola...
A mandolin that will cut through banjos.............where do I get one, is it the saw-toothed version from the DIY wharehouse ?
No, I play a 5-string too, wouldn't really want that to be...........
I haven't read the other replies to your questions, so I apologize in advance for redundancy.
To me, the difference in a mandolin and a bouzouki or octave mandolin is in the range of tones it plays. Zouks and OMs are
-lower- by nature and design, and so if there is a nice space between the top (fiddles, whistles, pipes, flutes) and the lower range guitars, then a zouk or an OM might be heard better than your mandolin.
One big difference between the fiddles (etc.) and the mandolin is the attack of the notes. The mandolin can be very percussive, and so can emphasize different rhythmic aspects of a melody. Of course a fiddle can too, but those things we just have to work out together... <GG>
For my two bits, I'd say get a louder mandolin. <GG> I like mandolins in sessions.
Re: Question for the bouzoukists - a louder mando ?
One tip I was given recently is to have your pick parallel to the strings, not at an angle, to get the most volume. Otherwise it will tend to slde over the strings, and not produce so much string displacement at the start of each note you pick.
There's also a heap of other things you can do to help your volume like not resting your hand on the bridge (which dampens the sound like a violin mute) and holding the mandolin away from your body so your chunky-knit jumper doesn't muffle the sound (you can even buy a cage-like thingy to strap onto the back of your mandolin. I think it's called a tone-guard but I've never had one so I don't know how effective it is). You can also 'move-up' to heavier strings (unless you have an antique bowl-back!) and a heavier plectrum or simply hit the strings harder. Combine all these and you'll have an appreciable increase in volume...
...or buy a dreadnought guitar, take a string off and tune it in fifths
As said above a good few times......try different makes/models of mandolins first.
Some bouzouki players do find it had to play melody all night without getting a strain/cramp, but there is always a Capo!
Also, in my experience, with a zouk you can mix it up alot more with counter melody, chords etc than with a mandolin.
Best O luck! Seanie.
Question for the bouzoukists
Question for the bouzoukists
I'm thinking of getting one, with a view to being heard better at sessions as my wee mandolin has a bit of a hard time of it competing with the fiddles. So, does the bouzouki cut through better?
# Posted on September 25th 2005 by Cammy
Re: Question for the bouzoukists
Subjectve question really, depends on the instrument, and whether youre playing melody or backing. For melody playing I don't think a bouzouki will cut through a noisy session situation any better than a mandolin apart from the fact that it's an octave lower and will find it's own niche in the overall sound. I think your problem is that you can't hear yourself, and unless you invest in a LOUD mandolin or Bouzouki, or play with your neck craned forward, that problem will still be there whether it's a mandolin or bouzouki. Others can probably hear you fine, and that is the mandolinist's dillema. I used to play a Gibson A1, but found that while it sounded wonderful, I could'nt hear myself in a session. I sold it and got a Joe Foley mandolin, and now I can hear myself just fine. Hope this helps.
# Posted on September 25th 2005 by Backer
Re: Question for the bouzoukists
I'm assuming that you are looking to play melody. A bouzouki is too long to play melody effectively. Concider an octave mandolin with a scale length somewhere near 21 inches.
The volume of an octave mandolin will vary from maker to maker, but mine seems plenty loud enough. However, since the octave mandolin is pitched an octave lower that the mandolin you are not competing in the same musical range as the fiddles. That helps make it distictive and not be lost in the din.
# Posted on September 25th 2005 by Craymcla
Re: Question for the bouzoukists
I'll second what Backer said about volume. You can definitely be louder that you think you are. I got accustomed to a hunched-over posture so I could hear myself better but when a friend played my octave mandolin and I was sitting opposite him, I was amazed at how loud it was.
I recently replaced the original on-board, side mounted EQ/pre-amp with a smaller unit. SIne the new unit was smaller, it didn't fill the hole that had been cut for that original unit. My plan was to make a walnut patch to fill it in. However, suddenly I could hear myself so much better though that (unsightly) hole that I left it alone. Eventually I will patch it, but I think I will cut some slots or gills to enable more of the sound to project up to my ears. I understand that a few instrument makers are starting to put slots in the side for this very reason.
# Posted on September 25th 2005 by Craymcla
Re: Question for the bouzoukists
there has been many talks/ diagreements on this subject, and buying a louder instrument is probably the answer, unless you have the desire to play a bouzouki or octave mandolin.
The bouzouki , for me , is not difficult to play with the long neck . I play melody and love it. The problems come more with neck width, than with length. I found my old Fylde archtop with 40mm at the nut impossible to play fast melody, but my Abnet at 32mm at the nut and only 40mm at the 12th fret, is a dream to play. SO TRY SOME OUT !!
http://www.chinatogalway.com/BOUZOUKI%20style%20cover%20page.htm
The octave mandolin or mandola ( for some ) is middle ground for finger stretch but I also find them middle ground for sound.
have fun
# Posted on September 26th 2005 by KS
Re: Question for the bouzoukists
I'm a bouzouki nut ( and a guitar neck and a fiddle bridge ) so I'd say go for the 'zouk, but yet you may find that after your mando the stretch seems prepostourous, hence the suggestions for trying the octave ( ie shorter scale ) mandola.
I reckon the 'zouk tone with the lighter strings on the longer scale add something the octave mando doesn't give, and you can always put a capo on the 'zouk, fifth fret gives you mandola tuning - CGda.
Trying to improve the volume on your current instrument may also be an option - I continue to advocate Red Henry's bridge developements, which improve all floating-bridge instruments. Or have you tried a resonator mandolin for sessions when you need the volume ? They are awesome.
# Posted on September 26th 2005 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Question for the bouzoukists
You don't say what sort of mandolin you have. As Backer said, different mandolins have different volumes.
This is a topic that is discussed often on the Mandolin Cafe site (see links). A lot of BlueGrass players on that site are looking for a mandolin that will cut through banjos.
My deep-box Freshwater mandolin can make itself heard above quite a battery of instruments.
But, just to throw a spanner in your works, have you considered a citern? I don't play one but only mention it because you are looking at both a zouk and a mandola...
Ah... so many instruments so little time.
# Posted on September 26th 2005 by JonB
Re: Question for the bouzoukists
A mandolin that will cut through banjos.............where do I get one, is it the saw-toothed version from the DIY wharehouse ?
No, I play a 5-string too, wouldn't really want that to be...........
# Posted on September 26th 2005 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Question for the bouzoukists
I haven't read the other replies to your questions, so I apologize in advance for redundancy.
To me, the difference in a mandolin and a bouzouki or octave mandolin is in the range of tones it plays. Zouks and OMs are
-lower- by nature and design, and so if there is a nice space between the top (fiddles, whistles, pipes, flutes) and the lower range guitars, then a zouk or an OM might be heard better than your mandolin.
One big difference between the fiddles (etc.) and the mandolin is the attack of the notes. The mandolin can be very percussive, and so can emphasize different rhythmic aspects of a melody. Of course a fiddle can too, but those things we just have to work out together... <GG>
For my two bits, I'd say get a louder mandolin. <GG> I like mandolins in sessions.
Good luck,
stv
http://cdbaby.com/Culchies
# Posted on September 26th 2005 by stv culchie
Re: Question for the bouzoukists
Craymcia wrote: "A bouzouki is too long to play melody effectively."
So is a guitar (they're about the same length), but it's a good thing that no one told that to John Doyle ... <GGGG>
(... or Tony McManus, Chris Newman, etc., etc....)
stv
http://cdbaby.com/Culchies
# Posted on September 26th 2005 by stv culchie
Re: Question for the bouzoukists - a louder mando ?
One tip I was given recently is to have your pick parallel to the strings, not at an angle, to get the most volume. Otherwise it will tend to slde over the strings, and not produce so much string displacement at the start of each note you pick.
# Posted on September 27th 2005 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Question for the bouzoukists
There's also a heap of other things you can do to help your volume like not resting your hand on the bridge (which dampens the sound like a violin mute) and holding the mandolin away from your body so your chunky-knit jumper doesn't muffle the sound (you can even buy a cage-like thingy to strap onto the back of your mandolin. I think it's called a tone-guard but I've never had one so I don't know how effective it is). You can also 'move-up' to heavier strings (unless you have an antique bowl-back!) and a heavier plectrum or simply hit the strings harder. Combine all these and you'll have an appreciable increase in volume...
...or buy a dreadnought guitar, take a string off and tune it in fifths
# Posted on September 27th 2005 by JonB
Re: Question for the bouzoukists
As said above a good few times......try different makes/models of mandolins first.
Some bouzouki players do find it had to play melody all night without getting a strain/cramp, but there is always a Capo!
Also, in my experience, with a zouk you can mix it up alot more with counter melody, chords etc than with a mandolin.
Best O luck! Seanie.
# Posted on September 27th 2005 by seaniemcg