You'd be surprised at how many tunes we might consider to be "standard tunes" are written by living or recently deceased musicians. I think it's only worth bothering over if you plan to use the tune for a highly profitable project. I always try to find out who wrote a tune before I do anything with it involving a recording, but since no real money ever seems to be made by any of my projects there's no reason other than giving proper credit.
This is one of those perennial issues that crops up.
(The following is US specific)
The pragmatic answer is, if BMI/ASCAP ask the venue to buy a license, the owner is best served by either buying it, or cancelling live music.
If they ask for a license, and the owner refuses, and they can document a violation (Happy Birthday being a classic example), that kicks it up to willful violation, and the results are unpleasant.
Either way, the musicians are safe. BMI/ASCAP only license venues.
It only really matters as a performer if you are handed a Performing Rights Society form to fill out. In this case I believe there is an argument, if it is an actual profesional engagement, to have registered all your band arrangements with the PRS. I understand that something s simple as melody-line + chord shapes will do ( OK, lets get the guitar- and 'zouk-pickers in line here, plus anyone who actually uses the bass buttons on their squeeze-boxes, to agree on the arrangements .)
Then, every time you fill one of these out and return it from a licensed venue you get a small royalty for the band - nice !
If no money has changed hands between artists and proprietors, as in most sessions, and you stll get one of these things, fill in as "Traditional material - Public Domain", and hopefully it might stop Paul McCartney and Michael Jackson creaming their percentage off the top - because the biggest artists get the biggest share ( funny that, huh ? ).
I think I've seen one of these forms, or maybe two, in 30 years of barn dances, ceilidhs, folk clubs, and sessions.
BMI/ASCAP music police show up in strange places. A local grocery store was shut down for a few days and fined heavily for playing classical CDs over the sound system and not paying dues to BMI/ASCAP. Our schools have been checked for Xerox copies of anything, including single pages for page-turn ease. Parents have had video cameras taken away from them while filming their children during Christmas (excuse me, Winter) assemblies. We can no longer have talent shows at schools unless we use completely original material. Luckily the Birthday Song is in my first year strings book at school, and I've found many books with Irish Trad music, so I can stay fairly home free when my kids perform.
PRS has a good web site. You can check out tunes there. It is well worth doing. If a tune has "trad" by it you are in the clear, otherwise the name of the person who owns the copyright will be there.
I have never encountered any problems playing what we want in the pubs here in RI. Now when you are recording, however, it pays to do some research--if for no other reason than to properly compensate someone who does have a right to get paid for use of their tune. Generally, if it is old enough to be in O'Neills, you are safe. Most tune books from major publishers will indicated what is copyrighted and what is not. Also, internet searches are a great way to track down origins.
Copyright restrictions are getting tighter. Recently in the US the length of copyrights was extended past 75 years, largely because of pressure brought to bear by the Disney Corporation, because the first Mickey Mouse cartoon was nearing that age, which would have undermined their right to licence all images with his likeness. The corporations win again.....
In the case of an individual, rather than a corporation, US copyright has been extended to life of the author *plus* 75 years, applied retroactively to anything that has not already fallen into the public domain.
Since most (although this may not hold for recorded works) trad music rights are retained by the composer that means that most trad music composed in the 20th century will not enter the public domain within our own lifetimes.
A California court has gone so far as to rule that rights on sound recordings do not enter the public domain at all, even after the expiration of their copyright, by "common law," and shut down the rerelease of classical 78s without paying off the lawyers.
You'd be surprised how many gigs in UK needed PRS sheets.
Out here in Tasmania at I've had the equivalent forms, and if it's trad, then they need to know it's trad.
The advice about trad. arr. Fred Bloggs is sound, and goes back I think to some of the earlier high profile traditional groups when they copyrighted their arrangements. Maybe someone is more clued up on this subject?
Are Standard Tunes Public Domain?
Are Standard Tunes Public Domain?
Are most standard dance/session tunes Public Domain?
# Posted on September 14th 2005 by JPcares
Re: Are Standard Tunes Public Domain?
Errrr...sorrrrrt of...kiiiiinda...
It's pretty easy to figure out which ones are and aren't, but easier if you have specific tunes you want to check.
# Posted on September 14th 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: Are Standard Tunes Public Domain?
You'd be surprised at how many tunes we might consider to be "standard tunes" are written by living or recently deceased musicians. I think it's only worth bothering over if you plan to use the tune for a highly profitable project. I always try to find out who wrote a tune before I do anything with it involving a recording, but since no real money ever seems to be made by any of my projects there's no reason other than giving proper credit.
# Posted on September 14th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: Are Standard Tunes Public Domain?
Public perfomance is the issue I was thinking about. Around here BMI/ASCAP will demand payola from the venue if you sing Happy Birthday to somebody.
# Posted on September 14th 2005 by JPcares
Re: Are Standard Tunes Public Domain?
I don't think anyone who's composed standard ITM tunes would belong to BMI/ASCAP.
# Posted on September 14th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: Are Standard Tunes Public Domain?
This is one of those perennial issues that crops up.
(The following is US specific)
The pragmatic answer is, if BMI/ASCAP ask the venue to buy a license, the owner is best served by either buying it, or cancelling live music.
If they ask for a license, and the owner refuses, and they can document a violation (Happy Birthday being a classic example), that kicks it up to willful violation, and the results are unpleasant.
Either way, the musicians are safe. BMI/ASCAP only license venues.
--Dave
# Posted on September 14th 2005 by Dave Weinstein
Re: Are Standard Tunes Public Domain?
Socan the Canadian version of ASCAP tried pressuring local sessions but a fuss was made and not much of anything happened http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display.php/1570/comments#comment26854 I'm not sure if Ive done the link properly
# Posted on September 14th 2005 by McMandolin
Re: Are Standard Tunes Public Domain?
It only really matters as a performer if you are handed a Performing Rights Society form to fill out. In this case I believe there is an argument, if it is an actual profesional engagement, to have registered all your band arrangements with the PRS. I understand that something s simple as melody-line + chord shapes will do ( OK, lets get the guitar- and 'zouk-pickers in line here, plus anyone who actually uses the bass buttons on their squeeze-boxes, to agree on the arrangements .)
Then, every time you fill one of these out and return it from a licensed venue you get a small royalty for the band - nice !
If no money has changed hands between artists and proprietors, as in most sessions, and you stll get one of these things, fill in as "Traditional material - Public Domain", and hopefully it might stop Paul McCartney and Michael Jackson creaming their percentage off the top - because the biggest artists get the biggest share ( funny that, huh ? ).
I think I've seen one of these forms, or maybe two, in 30 years of barn dances, ceilidhs, folk clubs, and sessions.
# Posted on September 14th 2005 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Are Standard Tunes Public Domain?
BMI/ASCAP music police show up in strange places. A local grocery store was shut down for a few days and fined heavily for playing classical CDs over the sound system and not paying dues to BMI/ASCAP. Our schools have been checked for Xerox copies of anything, including single pages for page-turn ease. Parents have had video cameras taken away from them while filming their children during Christmas (excuse me, Winter) assemblies. We can no longer have talent shows at schools unless we use completely original material. Luckily the Birthday Song is in my first year strings book at school, and I've found many books with Irish Trad music, so I can stay fairly home free when my kids perform.
# Posted on September 14th 2005 by dmarie
Re: Are Standard Tunes Public Domain?
Funny laws you got in USA. I really like beeing in Europe. I play what I want..........
# Posted on September 15th 2005 by Rufsen
Re: Are Standard Tunes Public Domain?
If they tried that over here someone would be leaving the assembly in an ambulance.
PP
# Posted on September 15th 2005 by Pied Piper
Re: Are Standard Tunes Public Domain?
PRS has a good web site. You can check out tunes there. It is well worth doing. If a tune has "trad" by it you are in the clear, otherwise the name of the person who owns the copyright will be there.
# Posted on September 15th 2005 by Fiddle Fancier
Re: Are Standard Tunes Public Domain?
I have never encountered any problems playing what we want in the pubs here in RI. Now when you are recording, however, it pays to do some research--if for no other reason than to properly compensate someone who does have a right to get paid for use of their tune. Generally, if it is old enough to be in O'Neills, you are safe. Most tune books from major publishers will indicated what is copyrighted and what is not. Also, internet searches are a great way to track down origins.
Copyright restrictions are getting tighter. Recently in the US the length of copyrights was extended past 75 years, largely because of pressure brought to bear by the Disney Corporation, because the first Mickey Mouse cartoon was nearing that age, which would have undermined their right to licence all images with his likeness. The corporations win again.....
# Posted on September 15th 2005 by AlBrown
Re: Are Standard Tunes Public Domain?
In the case of an individual, rather than a corporation, US copyright has been extended to life of the author *plus* 75 years, applied retroactively to anything that has not already fallen into the public domain.
Since most (although this may not hold for recorded works) trad music rights are retained by the composer that means that most trad music composed in the 20th century will not enter the public domain within our own lifetimes.
A California court has gone so far as to rule that rights on sound recordings do not enter the public domain at all, even after the expiration of their copyright, by "common law," and shut down the rerelease of classical 78s without paying off the lawyers.
It's getting very silly out there.
KFG
# Posted on September 15th 2005 by KFG
Re: Are Standard Tunes Public Domain?
You'd be surprised how many gigs in UK needed PRS sheets.
Out here in Tasmania at I've had the equivalent forms, and if it's trad, then they need to know it's trad.
The advice about trad. arr. Fred Bloggs is sound, and goes back I think to some of the earlier high profile traditional groups when they copyrighted their arrangements. Maybe someone is more clued up on this subject?
Brianx
# Posted on September 16th 2005 by briantheflute