To repeat a set which has already been played at the beginning of a session. An aficionado informed me recently at a session that this is a mega big no no. I want to know the truth, the whole truth and nuthin but... hit me! I reckon it's a load o old rubbish to be honest. C'mon, who repeats themselves themselves in a session session?
We played "star of Munster" this week because the guy who started it the second time wasn't there the first time around. No one died, the temper flareups were minor, all bruised egoes have been healed.
Not me. Your friend is correct, but it's no big deal if it does happen. Usually only happens when someone comes in late to a session and doesn't know - or ask before he or she starts - what's been played before.
Just a minute - no hesitation, deviation or repetition.
:~}
As has been said above, people try not to do it but it isn't a hanging offence. Not at our sessions anyway. Except that last Thursday when the governor came in late and wanted to play the bodhrán along to me on the box! I had by then used up my miniscule box repertoire (that I'm able to play after a few pints, anyway!) so ended up playing them all over again. Sad but true.
Why would you when there's so many tunes out there? Because you like it so much... or maybe you've just learned it and want to get it really right.. or simply to annoy those rule makers with their yellow cards...loads o reasons.
It's not a load of rubbish. It's a no no to do it intentionally.
As Dow says there are so many tunes out there and an ancient Irish tradition of judging muscians by how many tunes they know. Repeating a tune implies you don't know enough to get through the evening without repeating. It is a disreputable thing to do, and to make others participate in. People lose "face."
Time is also limited at any given session and the other players want to get tunes in/hear new tunes. If you're called on to lead a tune and everything you know has been done already, demur and sit out. Let someone else have their go, then go home and learn the tunes they played.
However, as Wormdiet and Kenny point out it often happens unintentionally. Since it is rude to do intentionally, it is also rude to point out that someone has done it unintentionally. It will only make them feel bad to no purpose.
Thus if you arrive late to a session it's only polite to ask if a tune has been played before you lead it off, saving everyone else the discomfort of not causing you discomfort.
Ain't society fun?
And do you really want it to all sound the same, because it is?
We try not to repeat, but as stated above, we sometimes have latecomers who launch into something we have already done, but that is no big deal.
Pingu--I am glad I am not the only one with a "miniscule box repertoire," despite the fact that I have been working on it for a couple of years as a sideline--the new tunes seem to enter my brain very slowly on that instrument!
Definitely uncool over here as well. Sometimes, people just shrug and play the tune anyway, other times someone will lean over to the person playing and say, "We just played that one a while ago". With so many great tunes in the world, why waste your time playing the same ones over and over?
"there and an ancient Irish tradition of judging muscians by how many tunes they know"... really? Well I know a few players who know a whole lot more tunes than I do and they play like crap. Of course they don't have as many of them yellow cards as I do..
Part of the thing about coming in late is you often lose the right to start a tune just incase it's been played earlier. But this doesn't really happen much anyway because there are so many tunes, the chances of repeating one it pretty slim.
I'd often hold back on a tune though if it is the favourite of someone I know to be in later.
But what I want to know is Cammy said a "set" was repeated. In the light of what's said about sets in the previous thread. I'd say this is a "mega no no"
I like it when someone leads a set off with a tune that they already played an hour earlier. It's usually a drink related thing, and then you can really slag them off(!)
But it's not good to do if you can help it, it's boring to play something you've already played when there are so many unplayed tunes you could be doing . . .
I sympathise with Danny and Al above on the box front. My repertoire on said device now stands at one tune if I'm sober and nor distracted (A rare occurance) ....
Don't know about you but I have on occasion started a tune that was played earlier in the evening purely by accident. As soon as I play the first few notes, I usually let out a groan and mouth a "sorry" to everyone before changing to a different tune on the very next round.
If you've come in late and not realised a tune's been played, people usually tell you, in which case you should again change to a different tune on the first opportunity.
Exceptions are if there were only two people when it was first played and now there's twenty, or if you're just really hard and people are scared of you.
Another reason I like the snippet method. If I come in late and I say, "How about this tune." and I play a snippet... I'll hear "We played that one already."
Easy peasy... another problem solved by the snippet system.
"Well I know a few players who know a whole lot more tunes than I do and they play like crap."
I didn't say I was in sympathy with the attitude, I merely noted that it has long standing in the social culture and affects people's current attitudes.
No, not particularly. I'd rather listen to someone who plays a couple dozen tunes well than someone who plays a thousand tunes badly. In effect that's what I do when I play a CD.
However;
"There are those tunes that everyone likes to hear! "
. . .you have to bear in mind that it's uncool to notice or consider that anyone is listening to you at all, but that's another thread.
Another problem with Jack's "snippet" system is that you lose out on all the friendly banter and slagging a session should have, because you never get the same tune played twice. Where's the fun in being perfect? *Shakes head ruefully*
If there is a nice person with a limited repertoire who shows up late, after we have already covered their playpretty, I am happy to play it over again.
Hey Dow, I heard a tape of you session too. It started in the middle of a tune in progress... then the tune ended and I heard you starting to say something... then I heard about three people say, "Mark, just shut up... ok... please?"
This WAS covered in an earlier discussion. Is there anything that hasn't been?
The strangest thing is that you can't go back, it's never the same the second time, yet, you can play the same tunes the next night without any feeling of deja vu.
Why ?
Snigger...Pete. So are you saying you can't repeat tunes at A Particular Sitting of a session...although that might be at a festival?
So. Hypothetically. (Please - I *am* being serious....well, serious point on a frivolous aside from main topic, if you like.)
You're at some fleadh or festival with a group of heads, mates from whatever sessions. You play a "lunchtime" set of tunes...say 2-3 hours worth. People disperse for real solid lunch/take in a some competitions/take in countryside/whatever, then agree to meet later. Mostly the same group. Then you reconvene and go through the same load of sets. Cos that's the common repertoire. Same day, same pub, same sets. Slightly different time. There are of course those who don't stop for lunch/sightseeing but just play play play (been there) so how do their views fit into this scheme of things?
Well, I'd prefer to play mostly different tunes the second time around, but I'd expect some repetition. I'd even expect some players to prefer lots of repetition. I might even protest a bit, but in the end I'd just be happy to be playing.
Our session usually runs four to five hours. We try try to avoid repetition, but if someone wants to play a tune that we played before they arrived, we usually say either "OK, it's been a few hours since we played it," or "we just played that, let's wait a few hours." If it happens accidentally, we might mention it or not, but it's no big deal. We did have one session a few years ago where the Kesh got played at least three, maybe four times with latecomers insisting on playing it. That really annoyed me, but I may have been the only one.
Even though the snippet system solves the problem of repeating tunes -- we still don't mind doing so -- depending on the tune and other certain considerations.
You are right mr bliss. No one knows except the tune players. Whether this is a good or bad thing is for those who know. Those who don't, are quite right not to care.
Why can't late-comers ask if so-and-so tune has already been played or, perish the thought, play a tune they have never heard anyone else at the session play?
I think is is even worse, to play the same tune later, in a different key, just becase you cannot play it in the first key.
Cries of "Repetition" strike up around my area when repeats are tried and they soon change their tune. I think a system of fines should be started!!!
That's a very interesting thought, Blisster, keep in mind that the smoking ban started here in San Francisco and has now spread across the Republic of Ireland. It's only a matter of time before you'll be standing out tin front of the pub shivering with a fag dangling from your lip.
Gallo? yuk! It's true that a good bottle of wine is impossible to find in Ireland... or so it seemed every time I was there. Seems like the worst examples from here are exported there.
How uncool is this?
How uncool is this?
To repeat a set which has already been played at the beginning of a session. An aficionado informed me recently at a session that this is a mega big no no. I want to know the truth, the whole truth and nuthin but... hit me! I reckon it's a load o old rubbish to be honest. C'mon, who repeats themselves themselves in a session session?
# Posted on September 13th 2005 by Cammy
Re: How uncool is this?
We played "star of Munster" this week because the guy who started it the second time wasn't there the first time around. No one died, the temper flareups were minor, all bruised egoes have been healed.
In short, it just wasn't that big a deal.
# Posted on September 13th 2005 by wormdiet
Re: How uncool is this?
Not me. Your friend is correct, but it's no big deal if it does happen. Usually only happens when someone comes in late to a session and doesn't know - or ask before he or she starts - what's been played before.
# Posted on September 13th 2005 by Kenny
Re: How uncool is this?
Why would you when there's so many tunes out there?
Does anyone else use the expression "yellow card" in a session context?
# Posted on September 13th 2005 by Dr. Dow
Re: How uncool is this?
Just a minute - no hesitation, deviation or repetition.
:~}
As has been said above, people try not to do it but it isn't a hanging offence. Not at our sessions anyway. Except that last Thursday when the governor came in late and wanted to play the bodhrán along to me on the box! I had by then used up my miniscule box repertoire (that I'm able to play after a few pints, anyway!) so ended up playing them all over again. Sad but true.
# Posted on September 13th 2005 by Rudall the time
Re: How uncool is this?
Yellow card? Hmmm...I've had a few of them from Jeremy, that's for sure!
# Posted on September 13th 2005 by Rudall the time
Re: How uncool is this?
So have I
# Posted on September 13th 2005 by Dr. Dow
Re: How uncool is this?
Why would you when there's so many tunes out there? Because you like it so much... or maybe you've just learned it and want to get it really right.. or simply to annoy those rule makers with their yellow cards...loads o reasons.
# Posted on September 13th 2005 by Cammy
Re: How uncool is this?
All horribly self-centred reasons. I like you
# Posted on September 13th 2005 by Dr. Dow
Re: How uncool is this?
D'you know the Me Me Me Jig? It's the only tune I like to play at sessions.
# Posted on September 13th 2005 by Cammy
Re: How uncool is this?
It's not a load of rubbish. It's a no no to do it intentionally.
As Dow says there are so many tunes out there and an ancient Irish tradition of judging muscians by how many tunes they know. Repeating a tune implies you don't know enough to get through the evening without repeating. It is a disreputable thing to do, and to make others participate in. People lose "face."
Time is also limited at any given session and the other players want to get tunes in/hear new tunes. If you're called on to lead a tune and everything you know has been done already, demur and sit out. Let someone else have their go, then go home and learn the tunes they played.
However, as Wormdiet and Kenny point out it often happens unintentionally. Since it is rude to do intentionally, it is also rude to point out that someone has done it unintentionally. It will only make them feel bad to no purpose.
Thus if you arrive late to a session it's only polite to ask if a tune has been played before you lead it off, saving everyone else the discomfort of not causing you discomfort.
Ain't society fun?
And do you really want it to all sound the same, because it is?
KFG
# Posted on September 13th 2005 by KFG
Re: How uncool is this?
We try not to repeat, but as stated above, we sometimes have latecomers who launch into something we have already done, but that is no big deal.
Pingu--I am glad I am not the only one with a "miniscule box repertoire," despite the fact that I have been working on it for a couple of years as a sideline--the new tunes seem to enter my brain very slowly on that instrument!
# Posted on September 13th 2005 by AlBrown
Re: How uncool is this?
Definitely uncool over here as well. Sometimes, people just shrug and play the tune anyway, other times someone will lean over to the person playing and say, "We just played that one a while ago". With so many great tunes in the world, why waste your time playing the same ones over and over?
# Posted on September 13th 2005 by alison kale
Re: How uncool is this?
If it's a set that is repeated, I can understand. I do however don't mind repeating the same tune in different sets.. It's good to mix things up =]
Cheers and free period,
Armand
# Posted on September 13th 2005 by armandale
Re: How uncool is this?
"there and an ancient Irish tradition of judging muscians by how many tunes they know"... really? Well I know a few players who know a whole lot more tunes than I do and they play like crap. Of course they don't have as many of them yellow cards as I do..
# Posted on September 13th 2005 by Cammy
Re: How uncool is this?
Part of the thing about coming in late is you often lose the right to start a tune just incase it's been played earlier. But this doesn't really happen much anyway because there are so many tunes, the chances of repeating one it pretty slim.
I'd often hold back on a tune though if it is the favourite of someone I know to be in later.
But what I want to know is Cammy said a "set" was repeated. In the light of what's said about sets in the previous thread. I'd say this is a "mega no no"
# Posted on September 13th 2005 by ...
Re: How uncool is this?
I like it when someone leads a set off with a tune that they already played an hour earlier. It's usually a drink related thing, and then you can really slag them off(!)
But it's not good to do if you can help it, it's boring to play something you've already played when there are so many unplayed tunes you could be doing . . .
# Posted on September 13th 2005 by Ottery
Re: How uncool is this?
I sympathise with Danny and Al above on the box front. My repertoire on said device now stands at one tune if I'm sober and nor distracted (A rare occurance) ....
# Posted on September 13th 2005 by Ottery
Re: How uncool is this?
Don't know about you but I have on occasion started a tune that was played earlier in the evening purely by accident. As soon as I play the first few notes, I usually let out a groan and mouth a "sorry" to everyone before changing to a different tune on the very next round.
If you've come in late and not realised a tune's been played, people usually tell you, in which case you should again change to a different tune on the first opportunity.
Exceptions are if there were only two people when it was first played and now there's twenty, or if you're just really hard and people are scared of you.
# Posted on September 13th 2005 by Conán McDonnell
Re: How uncool is this?
Another reason I like the snippet method. If I come in late and I say, "How about this tune." and I play a snippet... I'll hear "We played that one already."
Easy peasy... another problem solved by the snippet system.
# Posted on September 13th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: How uncool is this?
"Well I know a few players who know a whole lot more tunes than I do and they play like crap."
I didn't say I was in sympathy with the attitude, I merely noted that it has long standing in the social culture and affects people's current attitudes.
KFG
# Posted on September 13th 2005 by KFG
Re: How uncool is this?
.. of which you're not in sympathy?
# Posted on September 13th 2005 by Cammy
Re: How uncool is this?
There are those tunes that everyone likes to hear!
it's not un cool.
# Posted on September 13th 2005 by MissWalshy
Re: How uncool is this?
".. of which you're not in sympathy?"
No, not particularly. I'd rather listen to someone who plays a couple dozen tunes well than someone who plays a thousand tunes badly. In effect that's what I do when I play a CD.
However;
"There are those tunes that everyone likes to hear! "
. . .you have to bear in mind that it's uncool to notice or consider that anyone is listening to you at all, but that's another thread.
KFG
# Posted on September 13th 2005 by KFG
Re: How uncool is this?
being sober enough to remember what tunes have been played is very uncool
# Posted on September 13th 2005 by Bren
Re: How uncool is this?
Here here Bren!!
# Posted on September 13th 2005 by MissWalshy
Re: How uncool is this?
It is a load of rubbish.Only the anal-retentive would care if a tune was unintentionally repeated.
# Posted on September 13th 2005 by dafydd
Re: How uncool is this?
Where where Miss?
# Posted on September 13th 2005 by Cammy
Re: How uncool is this?
Anyone here besides me ever see the episode of The Gong Show where each and every contestant came out and played "Feelings?" It was hilarious.
# Posted on September 13th 2005 by pbassnote
Re: How uncool is this?
Another problem with Jack's "snippet" system is that you lose out on all the friendly banter and slagging a session should have, because you never get the same tune played twice. Where's the fun in being perfect? *Shakes head ruefully*
# Posted on September 13th 2005 by Dr. Dow
Re: How uncool is this?
Dow, you have never been to any of our sessions, so how would you know?
# Posted on September 13th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: How uncool is this?
I have a good imagination
# Posted on September 13th 2005 by Dr. Dow
Re: How uncool is this?
Anyway someone gave me a recording of your session and I transcribed some of the conversation here http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display.php/7729/comments#comment166047.
# Posted on September 13th 2005 by Dr. Dow
Re: How uncool is this?
Bah,
If there is a nice person with a limited repertoire who shows up late, after we have already covered their playpretty, I am happy to play it over again.
Why not?
Bob
# Posted on September 13th 2005 by bt
Re: How uncool is this?
Hey Dow, I heard a tape of you session too. It started in the middle of a tune in progress... then the tune ended and I heard you starting to say something... then I heard about three people say, "Mark, just shut up... ok... please?"
# Posted on September 14th 2005 by Phantom Button
Forgot the smiley
# Posted on September 14th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: How uncool is this?
This WAS covered in an earlier discussion. Is there anything that hasn't been?
The strangest thing is that you can't go back, it's never the same the second time, yet, you can play the same tunes the next night without any feeling of deja vu.
Why ?
# Posted on September 14th 2005 by Guernsey Pete
Re: How uncool is this?
Snigger...Pete. So are you saying you can't repeat tunes at A Particular Sitting of a session...although that might be at a festival?
So. Hypothetically. (Please - I *am* being serious....well, serious point on a frivolous aside from main topic, if you like.)
You're at some fleadh or festival with a group of heads, mates from whatever sessions. You play a "lunchtime" set of tunes...say 2-3 hours worth. People disperse for real solid lunch/take in a some competitions/take in countryside/whatever, then agree to meet later. Mostly the same group. Then you reconvene and go through the same load of sets. Cos that's the common repertoire. Same day, same pub, same sets. Slightly different time. There are of course those who don't stop for lunch/sightseeing but just play play play (been there) so how do their views fit into this scheme of things?
# Posted on September 14th 2005 by Rudall the time
Re: How uncool is this?
Well, I'd prefer to play mostly different tunes the second time around, but I'd expect some repetition. I'd even expect some players to prefer lots of repetition. I might even protest a bit, but in the end I'd just be happy to be playing.
Our session usually runs four to five hours. We try try to avoid repetition, but if someone wants to play a tune that we played before they arrived, we usually say either "OK, it's been a few hours since we played it," or "we just played that, let's wait a few hours." If it happens accidentally, we might mention it or not, but it's no big deal. We did have one session a few years ago where the Kesh got played at least three, maybe four times with latecomers insisting on playing it. That really annoyed me, but I may have been the only one.
# Posted on September 14th 2005 by GaryAMartin
Re: How uncool is this?
Even though the snippet system solves the problem of repeating tunes -- we still don't mind doing so -- depending on the tune and other certain considerations.
# Posted on September 14th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: How uncool is this?
Spot the stamp collectors.
PP
# Posted on September 14th 2005 by Pied Piper
Re: How uncool is this?
With all the diddley tunes sounding the same, who would know?
# Posted on September 14th 2005 by bodhran bliss
Re: How uncool is this?
You are right mr bliss. No one knows except the tune players. Whether this is a good or bad thing is for those who know. Those who don't, are quite right not to care.
# Posted on September 14th 2005 by ...
Re: How uncool is this?
"With all the diddley tunes sounding the same, who would know?"
This explains why bodhran players always play the same rhythm over and over and over...
# Posted on September 14th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: How uncool is this?
Why can't late-comers ask if so-and-so tune has already been played or, perish the thought, play a tune they have never heard anyone else at the session play?
I think is is even worse, to play the same tune later, in a different key, just becase you cannot play it in the first key.
Cries of "Repetition" strike up around my area when repeats are tried and they soon change their tune. I think a system of fines should be started!!!
# Posted on September 15th 2005 by geoffwright
Re: How uncool is this?
You join the session somewhere after the beginning, don't know what's been played, oops, played the same tunes as before I came in.
Maybe all tunes played should be put on a whiteboard.....not!
Who cares if the same tunes are played, may scratch yer head and think "hey I think we just did this" but you do get more practice.
# Posted on September 15th 2005 by keyedup
Re: How uncool is this?
You obviously live in the US of A, Phantom Button? Mr Bush should do something sensible and ban bodhrans in that country.
# Posted on September 15th 2005 by bodhran bliss
Re: How uncool is this?
That's a very interesting thought, Blisster, keep in mind that the smoking ban started here in San Francisco and has now spread across the Republic of Ireland. It's only a matter of time before you'll be standing out tin front of the pub shivering with a fag dangling from your lip.
# Posted on September 15th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: How uncool is this?
Have a drink of Gallo wine on me, now that the workers' have won. Big celebrations in the Bay Area.
# Posted on September 15th 2005 by bodhran bliss
Re: How uncool is this?
Gallo? yuk! It's true that a good bottle of wine is impossible to find in Ireland... or so it seemed every time I was there. Seems like the worst examples from here are exported there.
# Posted on September 16th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: How uncool is this?
I don't drink, and if I did it would be Argentinian wine. Jack Gilder will know what I mean. Viva la revolution.
# Posted on September 16th 2005 by bodhran bliss