How do you feel about having waltzes submitted that do not necessarily qualify as ITM but sound like they should? There is an American composer, Jay Ungar, that writes tunes that certainly fit IMHO but although I play them I wouldn't submit them here unless I felt they were welcomed by all , and especially Jeremy.
My personal opinion, which I suspect is not the majority one, is no. However, since there is a huge amount of non Irish stuff in the tunes already I can't really see that it matters.
Sometimes this forum is about Irish music, more often it is about ISC (that's international session culture). Only Jeremy knows what his original intentions might have been, but things certainly have taken on a life of their own.
It seems to me that most contributers to this board want it to be about Irish music PLUS whatever else gets played at their sessions, or whatever else they loosely put in the same category in their own minds.
Some of us might wish for a slightly narrower scope, but I for one doubt that it would be worth the squabbling and hurt feelings that would result if anyone tried to implement it.
Also ... if you're submitting a tune by a living writer, get their permission to do so before whacking it up on the net. Some tune writers would take a very dim view of infringements on their copyright. (Many artists making tunes in the traditional mould are not so concerned about such matters; but Jay is a professional musician and, as such, is probably more sesnsitive about his compositions being properly used.) Jay is contactable via his website http://www.jayandmolly.com
Well, many of the tunes that we consider to be "Irish traditional" never originated from there in the first place. Of course, we could restrict the input of tunes to those which have "become part of the Irish tradition" but this would exclude "new Irish tunes. I like Kris's "International session culture" description. These days, good(and bad) musicians will play tunes from different countries and cultures. Jeremy's guidelines about only including tunes which get played at your local session or which you might hear(or expect to hear) at another session seems quite sensible to me and covers most eventualities.
I've submitted one or two more unusual tunes here but only because I've sometimes played them myself at a session and believe that they should get more attention. On other occasions, I've responded to requests from other members.
i love irish or irish-flavoured waltzes too (i was brought up on them) . . .
_but for a modern day 'classic', check out Marcus Hernon's ''The Beautifull Goldfinch'', by far the best offering on his all-original 'The Grouse in the Heather' (2000) album with his brother and others
i saw the other week that 'The London Lassies' with Karen Ryan & co have covered it recently, and i have played / heard it in a couple of north london sessions with Reg Hall, Gary Connerly & others
believe me, this 'waltz' blows a number of others clean out of the water, so for the second time, will someone ''please transcribe it on this board'', as i don't know how to do it, and you can all make up your own minds on it . . .
I believe that Jay Unger *seriously* doesn't want people distributing his music, so i doubt he'd want it in the tune archives, but give him a contact and see, as that info was more than secondhand. That said, I think there's a couple of his tunes in the archives anyway.
Thanks for your input Kris.
The ISC label is helpful in understanding where this forum ventures and reacts in a positive way. My waltz has already been published in Bill Mathieson's Waltz Book,.......
but I have a recording of Jay Ungar and Molly Mason playing "Mountain House Waltz" that would blow any musician away who thought they could do the tune better.
So my question is really based on the cultural paradigm of
"sharing, what works, and fe*k those that don't care".
I want others to hear this music and do their own "take" on it so i can see what "you" think.
My involvement with this community leads me to submit the question.
Aidan..Thanks for the contact info.. I don't know what I would say to a professional.
I definitely live in a different world.
Dave , I refer you to the above mentioned book which contains some of my favorite waltzes and for which i would highly recommend for your library, with the caveat that you still need to find the recording for the final "inspiration".
JohnJ pointed out that IT could be from other sources, and that "restrictions" serve to exclude the tunes that don't fit into the designed objectives of the "session", which i respect and support wholeheartedly .
lissaniska introduced a new term, (for me) "Irish-flavoured waltzes" for which "Mt House" fits, and made me think of the last tune for the evening, at the parish hall, when the evening was winding down, and all was well with the world, for all that.
Zina,
I have a friend that composes music, but i have no idea if he feels good or bad about having his tunes shared with the musical community, I tried to introduce him to Eileen Ivers once. He refused, on the grounds of: "What would I say to her?"
Because the session-police only operate in sessions, they cannot stop Irish musicians recording non-Irish tunes under a pseudonym. (John Kirkpatricks Jump At The Sun certainly has this dual-nationality)
They might do this with all good intentions, not realising the provenance of these tunes in question.
Once the tune gets on an ITM recording, hasn't it become an honorary ITM tune?
Much to my delight, there are also quite a large number of non-ITM Northumbrian tunes in the archive, which are well worth playing. I don't feel this is diluting ITM as long as we carry on playing a mixture - Keep it up!!!
As many have said, there are already non-Irish waltzes posted here, so the horse is out of the barn. I would encourage everyone to use the comments section for the tune to include info on where you got the tune, what its background is, etc. That is well-appreciated info, that also will serve as a warning label for those who want to avoid "foreign influences."
And there is something to be said about taking a tune from another source, and playing with an ITM approach--it can be fun!
Submitting non-TIM waltzes
Submitting non-TIM waltzes
How do you feel about having waltzes submitted that do not necessarily qualify as ITM but sound like they should? There is an American composer, Jay Ungar, that writes tunes that certainly fit IMHO but although I play them I wouldn't submit them here unless I felt they were welcomed by all , and especially Jeremy.
WB
# Posted on June 5th 2005 by wvwhistler
Re: Submitting non-TIM waltzes
My personal opinion, which I suspect is not the majority one, is no. However, since there is a huge amount of non Irish stuff in the tunes already I can't really see that it matters.
Sometimes this forum is about Irish music, more often it is about ISC (that's international session culture). Only Jeremy knows what his original intentions might have been, but things certainly have taken on a life of their own.
It seems to me that most contributers to this board want it to be about Irish music PLUS whatever else gets played at their sessions, or whatever else they loosely put in the same category in their own minds.
Some of us might wish for a slightly narrower scope, but I for one doubt that it would be worth the squabbling and hurt feelings that would result if anyone tried to implement it.
# Posted on June 5th 2005 by kris
Re: Submitting non-TIM waltzes
Also ... if you're submitting a tune by a living writer, get their permission to do so before whacking it up on the net. Some tune writers would take a very dim view of infringements on their copyright. (Many artists making tunes in the traditional mould are not so concerned about such matters; but Jay is a professional musician and, as such, is probably more sesnsitive about his compositions being properly used.) Jay is contactable via his website http://www.jayandmolly.com
# Posted on June 5th 2005 by Aidan Crossey
Re: Submitting non-TIM waltzes
WB
Can you let me know if you do submit them? I would be interested as I do like a waltz.
Dave.
# Posted on June 5th 2005 by Twiz
Re: Submitting non-TIM waltzes
Well, many of the tunes that we consider to be "Irish traditional" never originated from there in the first place. Of course, we could restrict the input of tunes to those which have "become part of the Irish tradition" but this would exclude "new Irish tunes. I like Kris's "International session culture" description. These days, good(and bad) musicians will play tunes from different countries and cultures. Jeremy's guidelines about only including tunes which get played at your local session or which you might hear(or expect to hear) at another session seems quite sensible to me and covers most eventualities.
I've submitted one or two more unusual tunes here but only because I've sometimes played them myself at a session and believe that they should get more attention. On other occasions, I've responded to requests from other members.
# Posted on June 5th 2005 by Johnny Jay
Re: Submitting non-TIM waltzes
i love irish or irish-flavoured waltzes too (i was brought up on them) . . .
_but for a modern day 'classic', check out Marcus Hernon's ''The Beautifull Goldfinch'', by far the best offering on his all-original 'The Grouse in the Heather' (2000) album with his brother and others
i saw the other week that 'The London Lassies' with Karen Ryan & co have covered it recently, and i have played / heard it in a couple of north london sessions with Reg Hall, Gary Connerly & others
believe me, this 'waltz' blows a number of others clean out of the water, so for the second time, will someone ''please transcribe it on this board'', as i don't know how to do it, and you can all make up your own minds on it . . .
# Posted on June 5th 2005 by lisaniska
Re: Submitting non-TIM waltzes
I believe that Jay Unger *seriously* doesn't want people distributing his music, so i doubt he'd want it in the tune archives, but give him a contact and see, as that info was more than secondhand. That said, I think there's a couple of his tunes in the archives anyway.
# Posted on June 5th 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: Submitting non-TIM waltzes
I'll bet he's *seriously annoyed about this one.
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display.php/672
I and everyone else can play it in their sleep and we've never needed to look at the dots. You can't lock this music away. It's got a life of its own!
# Posted on June 6th 2005 by Johnny Jay
Re: Submitting non-TIM waltzes
Thanks for your input Kris.
The ISC label is helpful in understanding where this forum ventures and reacts in a positive way. My waltz has already been published in Bill Mathieson's Waltz Book,.......
but I have a recording of Jay Ungar and Molly Mason playing "Mountain House Waltz" that would blow any musician away who thought they could do the tune better.
So my question is really based on the cultural paradigm of
"sharing, what works, and fe*k those that don't care".
I want others to hear this music and do their own "take" on it so i can see what "you" think.
My involvement with this community leads me to submit the question.
Aidan..Thanks for the contact info.. I don't know what I would say to a professional.
I definitely live in a different world.
Dave , I refer you to the above mentioned book which contains some of my favorite waltzes and for which i would highly recommend for your library, with the caveat that you still need to find the recording for the final "inspiration".
JohnJ pointed out that IT could be from other sources, and that "restrictions" serve to exclude the tunes that don't fit into the designed objectives of the "session", which i respect and support wholeheartedly .
lissaniska introduced a new term, (for me) "Irish-flavoured waltzes" for which "Mt House" fits, and made me think of the last tune for the evening, at the parish hall, when the evening was winding down, and all was well with the world, for all that.
Zina,
I have a friend that composes music, but i have no idea if he feels good or bad about having his tunes shared with the musical community, I tried to introduce him to Eileen Ivers once. He refused, on the grounds of: "What would I say to her?"
# Posted on June 6th 2005 by wvwhistler
Re: Submitting non-TIM waltzes
Because the session-police only operate in sessions, they cannot stop Irish musicians recording non-Irish tunes under a pseudonym. (John Kirkpatricks Jump At The Sun certainly has this dual-nationality)
They might do this with all good intentions, not realising the provenance of these tunes in question.
Once the tune gets on an ITM recording, hasn't it become an honorary ITM tune?
Much to my delight, there are also quite a large number of non-ITM Northumbrian tunes in the archive, which are well worth playing. I don't feel this is diluting ITM as long as we carry on playing a mixture - Keep it up!!!
# Posted on June 6th 2005 by geoffwright
Re: Submitting non-TIM waltzes
As many have said, there are already non-Irish waltzes posted here, so the horse is out of the barn. I would encourage everyone to use the comments section for the tune to include info on where you got the tune, what its background is, etc. That is well-appreciated info, that also will serve as a warning label for those who want to avoid "foreign influences."
And there is something to be said about taking a tune from another source, and playing with an ITM approach--it can be fun!
# Posted on June 6th 2005 by AlBrown