I noticed some discussion about the problem of notating slow airs in the comments section for the slow air Mise Eire. I posted the paragraph below to add to the comments there, but I thought it might be worth repeating here to bring it to wider attention.
I don't know whether this would work with ABC, but could slow airs be notated without a time signature and without bar lines? This would get round the problem of trying to squeeze notes into bars when they simply won't go (see the sheet music on this site to the 'waltz' An Cuilin for an example of impossible notation). There would have to be some indication of phrasing though - would the brackets work for this purpose? Having no fixed bar lengths would also strongly suggest that the music was to be played with some freedom of rhythm - surely better than calling the tunes waltzes or hornpipes!
Incidentally, some baroque music (e.g. fantasias) is notated without bar lines to indicate a similar freedom of rhythm. And there is it seems some affinity between baroque music and ITM - according to a friend of mine (a baroque aficionado) who has been transcribing and arranging O'Carolan tunes for baroque lute.
This is an old chestnut on the site which comes up from time to time. I'd support anything that would enable a category to be created for slow airs - they're perhaps the most authentic of all traditional music genre and should not be dismissed as hornpipes, polkas, etc.
In the classical field, Erik Satie (of Gymnopedie fame) often wrote without bars or time signatures, see for example, his Gnossiennes. It seems to work OK.
Is there still not a problem though even without bar lines. Airs can be very simple yet very complex and constantly changing each time. Seems to me that noting down the basic melody as at present and then listening to someone playing it is sufficient. That gives you the bare bones and then some ideas to flesh to them out, to put your own interpretation on it. What would be nice though is a category for airs, though as Jeremy has pointed out before the time signatures vary and the database seems to be set up so that the type of tune is related to a fixed time sig.
True, in earlier times they did not use bar-lines, and even earlier, note values. But then, notation was only for "experts", who were brought up on one genre and worked with others in the one field , so could interpret the shorthand.
Many tunes can be turned into a slow air, and you don't "have" to notate a slow air as a slow air. When all said and done, it is still only a tune, even if the time signature varies.
Good luck, lads and lasses. I like a slow air now and then.
"they're perhaps the most authentic of all traditional music genre" (bannerman)
Nonetheless, last time this subject came up, Jeremy expressed the opinion that slow airs belong "perhaps on another site".
Agree or disagree, this is still his site.
But they are appearing on this site - as hornpipes and waltzes, etc., with goodness knows what weird results when someone comes to the tune without knowing it's meant to be a slow air.
No but yeah but no because I ain't never not even said nothing or nothing and if Zina says I did then don't listen to her cuz she microwaved her own pet hamster.
It's all right. The session is in the lounge where "the ladies" can go . As long as you bring "ladies' instruments" and not nasty things like a bodhran or jumbo guitars, you are welcome.
Notating slow airs
Notating slow airs
I noticed some discussion about the problem of notating slow airs in the comments section for the slow air Mise Eire. I posted the paragraph below to add to the comments there, but I thought it might be worth repeating here to bring it to wider attention.
I don't know whether this would work with ABC, but could slow airs be notated without a time signature and without bar lines? This would get round the problem of trying to squeeze notes into bars when they simply won't go (see the sheet music on this site to the 'waltz' An Cuilin for an example of impossible notation). There would have to be some indication of phrasing though - would the brackets work for this purpose? Having no fixed bar lengths would also strongly suggest that the music was to be played with some freedom of rhythm - surely better than calling the tunes waltzes or hornpipes!
Incidentally, some baroque music (e.g. fantasias) is notated without bar lines to indicate a similar freedom of rhythm. And there is it seems some affinity between baroque music and ITM - according to a friend of mine (a baroque aficionado) who has been transcribing and arranging O'Carolan tunes for baroque lute.
# Posted on June 4th 2005 by Lissagriffin
Re: Notating slow airs
This is an old chestnut on the site which comes up from time to time. I'd support anything that would enable a category to be created for slow airs - they're perhaps the most authentic of all traditional music genre and should not be dismissed as hornpipes, polkas, etc.
# Posted on June 4th 2005 by Bannerman
Re: Notating slow airs
In the classical field, Erik Satie (of Gymnopedie fame) often wrote without bars or time signatures, see for example, his Gnossiennes. It seems to work OK.
# Posted on June 5th 2005 by Sokol
Re: Notating slow airs
Is there still not a problem though even without bar lines. Airs can be very simple yet very complex and constantly changing each time. Seems to me that noting down the basic melody as at present and then listening to someone playing it is sufficient. That gives you the bare bones and then some ideas to flesh to them out, to put your own interpretation on it. What would be nice though is a category for airs, though as Jeremy has pointed out before the time signatures vary and the database seems to be set up so that the type of tune is related to a fixed time sig.
# Posted on June 5th 2005 by the wounded hussar
Re: Notating slow airs
'Lisaniska' springs to mind . . .
# Posted on June 5th 2005 by lisaniska
Re: Notating slow airs
True, in earlier times they did not use bar-lines, and even earlier, note values. But then, notation was only for "experts", who were brought up on one genre and worked with others in the one field , so could interpret the shorthand.
Many tunes can be turned into a slow air, and you don't "have" to notate a slow air as a slow air. When all said and done, it is still only a tune, even if the time signature varies.
# Posted on June 6th 2005 by geoffwright
Re: Notating slow airs
Good luck, lads and lasses. I like a slow air now and then.
"they're perhaps the most authentic of all traditional music genre" (bannerman)
Nonetheless, last time this subject came up, Jeremy expressed the opinion that slow airs belong "perhaps on another site".
Agree or disagree, this is still his site.
# Posted on June 6th 2005 by showaddydadito
Re: Notating slow airs
But they are appearing on this site - as hornpipes and waltzes, etc., with goodness knows what weird results when someone comes to the tune without knowing it's meant to be a slow air.
# Posted on June 6th 2005 by Lissagriffin
Re: Notating slow airs
Ears.
# Posted on June 6th 2005 by Dr. Dow
Re: Notating slow airs
Dow's right.
# Posted on June 6th 2005 by showaddydadito
Re: Notating slow airs
Oh, Dave, PLEASE don't go encouraging him. ;)
# Posted on June 6th 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: Notating slow airs
I don't need any encouraging when I can be right just by saying one word, Zeens
# Posted on June 6th 2005 by Dr. Dow
Re: Notating slow airs
Which word, Dow? Yeah but no but yeah but?
# Posted on June 6th 2005 by John J.
Re: Notating slow airs
No but yeah but no because I ain't never not even said nothing or nothing and if Zina says I did then don't listen to her cuz she microwaved her own pet hamster.
# Posted on June 6th 2005 by Dr. Dow
Re: Notating slow airs
Oh Dow, what good taste you have in avoiding the use of the word "slag". You're a lady.
# Posted on June 7th 2005 by showaddydadito
Re: Notating slow airs
Never been to a "pub" before... what does one do?
# Posted on June 7th 2005 by Dr. Dow
Re: Notating slow airs
It's all right. The session is in the lounge where "the ladies" can go . As long as you bring "ladies' instruments" and not nasty things like a bodhran or jumbo guitars, you are welcome.
# Posted on June 7th 2005 by John J.
Re: Notating slow airs
I should like to powder my nose before the session. Ou est le room de change pour les femmes?
# Posted on June 7th 2005 by Dr. Dow
Re: Notating slow airs
'ere - 'ang on a minute - that's not yer nose lady!
# Posted on June 7th 2005 by showaddydadito
Re: Notating slow airs
then who's nose is it?
# Posted on June 18th 2005 by lisaniska