Yeah, i agree, im much prefer the black stuff to the orange. Lots of stuff comes off the orange but i find it isnt much help. Some people say you shouldput a coat of one kind on first then put a layer of the other kind on type, guess its like painting sumit then adding gloss.Im not sure which order your meant to do it in tho.
You're right KP about this being a good topic. It was well thrashed back on Nov. 1 2001 under the thread "Rosin!" A search for "rosin" in the discussions brings up several other threads on the subject, too.
One of the key thoughts that came out of those earlier discussions was the idea of matching rosins to humidity, and changing from dark to light or vice versa as the humidity varies from season to season.
After reading our earlier threads, you might think it's worth coming back here to restart the conversation, particularly now that so many other people are joining in.
(BTW, I mostly use Millant-Deroux, an inexpensive medium weight French rosin. Smoother than most, but still grippy enough to make the strings skirl when you want. Hill dark is also nice.)
I gotta be honest, I've been buying the cheap stuff in wood blocks for years and had no problems. Not that I'm against the fancy disk cakes of it in cloth wrappers. I'm sure there is a difference.
I do have an extra bow that has not been used that I keep as a spare. I might just have to do some experimentation.
I do wonder how the different rosin works with different types of strings? ie steel, wound, gut, etc.
Also how does the rosin work with real hair or the fake stuff.
That said, I'm also interested in how often everyone gets your bows rehaired or cleaned. It has been ages for mine and I don't know if I should have it rehaired or now. Thoughts?
I rehair my bows once or twice a year...otherwise the rosin doesn't seem to take as well to the old hair. The person who does it also cleans the stick. I've always used real hair...I've tried other bows with the fake stuff and would rather use fishing line.
I practice 30 minutes to an hour each day as well as sessions and gig's as well. The poor thing is well used. It's a wood octagon bow with Prima printed above the frog. When it was rehaired it was done with horse hair.
The only problem I ever had with this bow was the cork came out during a gig. That's when I decided to go ahead and have it re-haired.
I just use a bit of cork grease around the joint for the tunables, from time to time. Otherwise and occasional rinse or full submersion with mild soap is all that's needed. I prefer natural hair, but for how long now will I have a choice?
I've heard about the submersion and full soap thing, but have not had the nerve to try it. A Russian buddy of mine once told me he used corox. (I think it was clorox, something like that)
Seen all those day-glo hair jobs yet? A violin instructor friend of mine claims that they're great to motivate her young students with -- a black fiddle with a day-glo green bow hair job looks "really cool" and ever so goth to them, and actually motivates them to play every day.
I've also washed the bow hair & never had a problem. I use mild soap water & watch to not get any in the frog or the tip. I also have used rubbing alcohol to strip the last bits of rosin from the hair (rosin disvolves in alcohol, but be extremely careful - alcohol also will remove varnish) It has had no negative effects on horsehair that I've seen. I don't suggest it, but if you have the guts & an old spare bow you could give it a shot. It's also good to take the excess rosin of your strings with a soft cloth & vigorous rubbing. Usually makes a god awful noise 'til you get it all off. I've heard people say you should get the bow rehaired every two months & others say to rehair when you've broken all the hair off. I do it about once a year.
I only rehair when the hair has become thin (it tends to break on my bows) Hmm maybe if no one else has this problem, im pressing too hard?
As for rosin this is the first time Ive ever heard about the difference between orange and black and temperature and humidity. This is great info, thanks. I used to ask people and never had the same answer.(eg - its what you prefer or depends on the type of strings you use (both may of course also be true). I have Kaplan Art Rosin Dark No 7 which was recommended for the Dadarrio string tho have switched to Corelli with the bullet proof kevlar core). I notice that it cakes rapidly and muffles the sound.
I rehair my own bows, and tend to do them when i've broken so many hairs it's not the same playing any more. Because black hair is stronger than white hair, i generally rehair my thrashing bow (the one i would tend to use on rocky gigs) with black hair. The fact that a pound of black hair costs about £60 and a pound of white hair costs either £350, £450 or £550 (depending on quality) also comes into it....... I usually need to rehair every 3-5 months (i do do a lot of playing so i feel this is entirely justified!
I tried "pirastro gold fleck" rosin for a while and that seemed o.k., been a while since i have now though so dont remember much about it.....)
OK, folks, before somebody soaks his $2000 bow in mild soap for a day or two and then blames me: I was talking about whistles, and just joking (although I do soak my whistles sometimes). I don't know anything about rosin, bows, sofas, frogs, or horse hair. I am just a simple whistler who can run out and get a perfectly decent instrument for $9. I think glauber knows my twisted humor, but I am a bit worried that flyinfiddler will do serious harm to his bow.
So, happy fiddling, my dear fiddle friends. And remember that's a D-natural and NOT a D-sharp in Julia Delaney, no matter what it says in the Portland Collection.
Ah the Portland Collection. They are comming out with book 2 I hear. Hmmm,, the Contra Dance musicians Bible.
I know I mentioned it above, but I have heard of people soaking their bow hair. However, theres bound to be a clause that releases you from liability there bloomfield.
Well, I am relieved to hear you say so, flyinfiddler, and best wishes to OK (I used to live in Guthrie, for a spell). The Portland Collection is great for contra dances, and I use it when I play those. But I think it's not the best resourse for Irish session tunes, even though there is such an overlap in the repertoir (never heard Petronella at a session yet, though). Norbek is much better for that, if you like getting the music, I think.
Very true very true. There are a few great Irish tunes in it, but mostly New England stuff and such. I'll look for Norbek. I'm becoming a bit music literate, sort of. I can't site read unless it's very easy or I'm already a bit familiar with the tune, which kind of defeats the purpose.
bb, go to my web site at http://www.geocities.com/flyinfiddler and then go to links and you will find a section on Contra dance. I've found quite a few cool Contra Dance sites out there.
flyin, Henrik Norbek has the best ABC tune collection on the web. You can probably find links to it in the ABC-links section. His versions are close to what is actually played in sessions, I hear.
bb, Contradances are a bit like square dances or old English country dances. couples line up in lines and then, you know, dance. Fun to play for and good practice.
This has been a worthwhile thread for me. Thanks. I found some orange rosin lying about (hidersine btand which is widely available in the uk and cheap). So I tried instead of black which I had been using and the sound is much better. my lower notes were muffled with the black rosin and now they actually have some life.the upper register which was always good now sounds "sweet". Great tips and I never would have believed it.
Makes me wonder if i should try stringing my fiddle with telephone wire like the gypsies used to (you know to get that authentic sound) serioulsy I once heard tapes of gypsies on the BBC radio which specifiaclly pointed out the telephone wire thing. no wonder telecommnications were kind of backward in those countries.
" I use a rosin from Germany with Gold particles in it. ( GOLD 1 ) It costs the Earth, but it really is so adherent - you feel your bow hairs glued to the string in such a way that it is almost difficult to pull the two apart ! This is obviously good for the sound. The tone quality is so rich and full when using this rosin. I estimate it is 3 to 4 times better than anything else. The maker is Renate Schmidt, and metal particles ( such as gold and silver ) are used in the rosin to give different tonal results. Effectively you play with gold dust......I call this my "Magic rosin". It is interesting how Pirastro advertise different rosin blends for their different strings. This shows how critical the whole business is ! With a cheap, powdery, yellow, Chinese rosin you obtain no adherence and a lot of powder - and no body to the sound. The main purpose of rosin is to roughen bow hairs so they adhere and grip the string, displacing it so that it vibrates. It connects the bow hairs to the string. This is an important stage in sound production - do not economize here ! Use this rosin sparingly - as it deposits a crust on the string ( cleaner needed !! ) . If you want this Rosin write to Renate M Schmidt, Johannes Kepler Strasse 74, D-75378 Bad Liebenzell - Ul. , Germany - Tel 0049.7052.2904. ( this is a FAX and a PHONE number ) I cannot recommend it strongly enough - it is amazing. Recently, it has become available at Phelps Violin, London. Please see our link page !!"
| duly got in touch with Phelps and ordered some. It costs £12.75 per block. The silver was described as creating a more brilliant wound. I went for the warm deep tones which the gold was said to enhance.
At the very bottom of the page is a comment about the Liebenzeller various Gold rosins.
You can also purchase Liebenzeller in the States at Music City Strings in Rockport Maine, their website is at http://www.musiccitystrings.com/chin.html#rosin -- there are several other gold rosins available, although I'm reading that the Pirastro Goldflex can be something of a giant pain in the eyes and nostrils as an allergan/irritant. The price for the Liebenzeller Gold I is $19.50.
I'd say there wouldnt be any point to using gold flecked rosin if your fiddle was really bad tho. I use black rosin - i find it better for the crunchy triplets that i love.
Well, according to the discussions, the gold flecks help keep the rosin softer without being sticky -- a help in certain climates. Now keep in mind that these rosins are developed for the exceedingly picky classical market. The different string manufacturers recommend different rosins for the different kinds of strings -- Pirastro, I believe, even manufactures different rosins specifically for each string.
I know - but if you had a chinese skylark fiddle you wouldnt spend loads of a gold flecked soandso - would you?? anyhow gotta go to a session, seeya lads )
Dunno, would it make it sound better without the expense of buying a new fiddle? Twenty USD wouldn't be too bad if it helps make the Chinese Skylark sound like a good grade student fiddle, and if you have a good grade student fiddle and the fancy-pants rosin make it sound like a good pro instrument, why the hell not? This not counting other factors like strings, humidity, skill level of player, blah blah blah.
Of course, the rosins and strings and such aren't much of a substitute for being able to play whatever instrument you like and make it sound good -- which of course means practise...ewww! *grin* A teacher was telling me once that there's a fiddler that she always thought had a crappy instrument, and then a master fiddler came to town and happened to pick up this fiddler's violin and play it, and it sounded truly gorgeous. It was the fiddler, not the fiddle. Heh.
I'm mildly allergic to pine pollens and other tree residues (wood smoke, sawdust, etc), and have noticed the darker bow rosins tend to pump up my sinuses. Anyone else have this problem? I've stayed away from the powdered rosins for this reason, and tend to rosin light anyway so I don't get such a cloud around my head when I play.
On the subject of making a cheap fiddle sound better than it is, I'd recommend buying the best bow you can afford--a good bow can do more than the fiddle to get the sound you're after.
Now I don't know whether Glauber's trying to be funny or serious.... Hmmmm...I'll try to put it in terms a wind player would understand. A fiddler's bow is like a flutist's embouchure--without the right tool, the instrument (fiddle or flute) can't live up to it's potential.
Factors in a bow that affect tone production:
Quality of the hair
Quality of the hair installation (flatness, eveness, tension, etc.)
Liveliness of the stick
Balance from tip to frog
Weight
Straightness
Range of available tension on the hair
Probably even the density of the stick....
I'm sure the list goes on.
Just as a thin flat pick can give you a thin tone on a guitar, certain bow characteristics can weaken the tone of a fiddle.
I'm still convinced that finding the right strings for your fiddle is one of the most direct physical things you can do to improve your tone, assuming that the set up is good. Most else is technique, 99 percent in the bow arm.
I totally agree about the bow - I have a really light bow, its not that great. My fiddle is nice so its ok - it evens out, but when I use my friends bow - its improves the sounds 10 fold - its really lovely, costed €2000 tho - arrgghhh) (mine costed €350 - I used to thing that was alot for a bow - teehheee)
The Liebenzeller that I ordered yesterday from Phelps in London at 1500 hrs arrived in Scotland to me this morining - now thats service!
I have tried it and do not think I have imagined that It has made a difference. My bowing is smoother (I mean its like the bow is connected to the string - in a good way) and the ornamenation sounds crisper (eg rolls are clean, with the art craft dark they were distinctly(sic) muffled, bowed triplets go tchkk more readily with less effort). the tone is clean as well. give it a go (and no I do not get commissions for sales)
Ah, aren't artificial aids worth it!? Try recording yourself using both rosins, George (separately, I mean!) and see if there really is a difference. (Make sure you've cleaned all the old rosin off your bow hair before trying it!) The classicos say there is, that's for sure -- hey, where's ViolaDave? He ought to have a few things to say about this, now I think on it, being one himself. Anyway, George, don't totally abandon your orange rosin, nor the practise! *grin* You don't want to go depending on your rosin for your tone production and technical skill.
I'm going to give it a go myself, actually -- perhaps the better bow adhesion to the string will remind me to lengthen out my strokes, as I'm trying to smooth out my bowing a bit.
Zina - I think you'll enjoy the rosin. a friend said he noticed a different tone coming off the thing and i played a klezmer piece called flatbush waltz (off the notes im afraid) and could get much more expression into it. the rosin grips really well and thus the bow moves ever so slowly but the notes sound strong and resonate well.
thanks, i'm really surprised it affects the tone so much. After i posted, i thought, the quality of the hair and the straightness would for sure affect the tone, but i thought in the machine age, every bow would be pretty much the same or at least good enough. Fascinating.
Just to reinforce what Will Harmon said ....the quality of bow can make an enormous difference to the sound you can get even out of a cheaper fiddle.
Getting back to the subject of rosin, one of the things I have noticed is that some fiddlers (me included) sometimes have too much on their bow and this can make the bow skid over the strings. A good way of clearing the exess rosin is use an old toothbrush with the bow hair very slightly loosened. Just brush gently up and down three or four times and this should do the trick. Don't get Pavlovian though and absent mindedly put toothpaste on it first ... (so that was just me then)?
Types of Rosin for Fiddles
Types of Rosin for Fiddles
Here's a topic for discussion:
What kind of rosin do you prefer and why?
I am a fan of dark rosin because it gives my bow a nice bite.
# Posted on June 27th 2002 by KP
Re: Types of Rosin for Fiddles
Yeah, i agree, im much prefer the black stuff to the orange. Lots of stuff comes off the orange but i find it isnt much help. Some people say you shouldput a coat of one kind on first then put a layer of the other kind on type, guess its like painting sumit then adding gloss.Im not sure which order your meant to do it in tho.
# Posted on June 27th 2002 by Wackadack
Re: Types of Rosin for Fiddles
You're right KP about this being a good topic. It was well thrashed back on Nov. 1 2001 under the thread "Rosin!" A search for "rosin" in the discussions brings up several other threads on the subject, too.
One of the key thoughts that came out of those earlier discussions was the idea of matching rosins to humidity, and changing from dark to light or vice versa as the humidity varies from season to season.
After reading our earlier threads, you might think it's worth coming back here to restart the conversation, particularly now that so many other people are joining in.
(BTW, I mostly use Millant-Deroux, an inexpensive medium weight French rosin. Smoother than most, but still grippy enough to make the strings skirl when you want. Hill dark is also nice.)
# Posted on June 27th 2002 by Will Harmon
Re: Types of Rosin for Fiddles
Bowed triplets: black
Slow airs: orange
# Posted on June 27th 2002 by llig leahcim
Re: Types of Rosin for Fiddles
I gotta be honest, I've been buying the cheap stuff in wood blocks for years and had no problems. Not that I'm against the fancy disk cakes of it in cloth wrappers. I'm sure there is a difference.
I do have an extra bow that has not been used that I keep as a spare. I might just have to do some experimentation.
I do wonder how the different rosin works with different types of strings? ie steel, wound, gut, etc.
Also how does the rosin work with real hair or the fake stuff.
So many variables,,,,,,,,
# Posted on June 27th 2002 by flyinfiddler
Re: Types of Rosin for Fiddles
That said, I'm also interested in how often everyone gets your bows rehaired or cleaned. It has been ages for mine and I don't know if I should have it rehaired or now. Thoughts?
# Posted on June 27th 2002 by KP
Re: Types of Rosin for Fiddles
Last time my bow was rehaired was 1989. It's a little dark by the frog, other than that. No problems.
# Posted on June 27th 2002 by flyinfiddler
Re: Types of Rosin for Fiddles
I rehair my bows once or twice a year...otherwise the rosin doesn't seem to take as well to the old hair. The person who does it also cleans the stick. I've always used real hair...I've tried other bows with the fake stuff and would rather use fishing line.
# Posted on June 27th 2002 by Will Harmon
Re: Types of Rosin for Fiddles
I practice 30 minutes to an hour each day as well as sessions and gig's as well. The poor thing is well used. It's a wood octagon bow with Prima printed above the frog. When it was rehaired it was done with horse hair.
The only problem I ever had with this bow was the cork came out during a gig. That's when I decided to go ahead and have it re-haired.
# Posted on June 27th 2002 by flyinfiddler
Yeah, right.
I just use a bit of cork grease around the joint for the tunables, from time to time. Otherwise and occasional rinse or full submersion with mild soap is all that's needed. I prefer natural hair, but for how long now will I have a choice?
# Posted on June 27th 2002 by Bloomfield
Re: Types of Rosin for Fiddles
I've heard about the submersion and full soap thing, but have not had the nerve to try it. A Russian buddy of mine once told me he used corox. (I think it was clorox, something like that)
# Posted on June 27th 2002 by flyinfiddler
Bloomfield's choice
Bloomfield, i don't understand, do you use your own hair?
# Posted on June 27th 2002 by glauber
Re: Types of Rosin for Fiddles
Seen all those day-glo hair jobs yet? A violin instructor friend of mine claims that they're great to motivate her young students with -- a black fiddle with a day-glo green bow hair job looks "really cool" and ever so goth to them, and actually motivates them to play every day.
Zina
# Posted on June 27th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Types of Rosin for Fiddles
I've also washed the bow hair & never had a problem. I use mild soap water & watch to not get any in the frog or the tip. I also have used rubbing alcohol to strip the last bits of rosin from the hair (rosin disvolves in alcohol, but be extremely careful - alcohol also will remove varnish) It has had no negative effects on horsehair that I've seen. I don't suggest it, but if you have the guts & an old spare bow you could give it a shot. It's also good to take the excess rosin of your strings with a soft cloth & vigorous rubbing. Usually makes a god awful noise 'til you get it all off. I've heard people say you should get the bow rehaired every two months & others say to rehair when you've broken all the hair off. I do it about once a year.
# Posted on June 27th 2002 by Mad Baloney
Re: Types of Rosin for Fiddles
I only rehair when the hair has become thin (it tends to break on my bows) Hmm maybe if no one else has this problem, im pressing too hard?
As for rosin this is the first time Ive ever heard about the difference between orange and black and temperature and humidity. This is great info, thanks. I used to ask people and never had the same answer.(eg - its what you prefer or depends on the type of strings you use (both may of course also be true). I have Kaplan Art Rosin Dark No 7 which was recommended for the Dadarrio string tho have switched to Corelli with the bullet proof kevlar core). I notice that it cakes rapidly and muffles the sound.
# Posted on June 27th 2002 by donnchad
Re: Types of Rosin for Fiddles
I rehair my own bows, and tend to do them when i've broken so many hairs it's not the same playing any more. Because black hair is stronger than white hair, i generally rehair my thrashing bow (the one i would tend to use on rocky gigs) with black hair. The fact that a pound of black hair costs about £60 and a pound of white hair costs either £350, £450 or £550 (depending on quality) also comes into it....... I usually need to rehair every 3-5 months (i do do a lot of playing so i feel this is entirely justified!
I tried "pirastro gold fleck" rosin for a while and that seemed o.k., been a while since i have now though so dont remember much about it.....)
Jamie
# Posted on June 27th 2002 by jamiedj
Re: Types of Rosin for Fiddles
OK, folks, before somebody soaks his $2000 bow in mild soap for a day or two and then blames me: I was talking about whistles, and just joking (although I do soak my whistles sometimes). I don't know anything about rosin, bows, sofas, frogs, or horse hair. I am just a simple whistler who can run out and get a perfectly decent instrument for $9. I think glauber knows my twisted humor, but I am a bit worried that flyinfiddler will do serious harm to his bow.
So, happy fiddling, my dear fiddle friends. And remember that's a D-natural and NOT a D-sharp in Julia Delaney, no matter what it says in the Portland Collection.
Affectionately,
Bloomfield
# Posted on June 28th 2002 by Bloomfield
Re: Types of Rosin for Fiddles
Sorta like in the Chicago reel where loads of people overseas play the natural f and loads of people here plays the f#
)
# Posted on June 28th 2002 by bb
Re: Types of Rosin for Fiddles
Yeah, it's that modal thing. Normally I'm cool, but in Julia Delaney it just really bugs me.
# Posted on June 28th 2002 by Bloomfield
Re: Types of Rosin for Fiddles
Ah the Portland Collection. They are comming out with book 2 I hear. Hmmm,, the Contra Dance musicians Bible.
I know I mentioned it above, but I have heard of people soaking their bow hair. However, theres bound to be a clause that releases you from liability there bloomfield.
# Posted on June 28th 2002 by flyinfiddler
Re: Types of Rosin for Fiddles
Well, I am relieved to hear you say so, flyinfiddler, and best wishes to OK (I used to live in Guthrie, for a spell). The Portland Collection is great for contra dances, and I use it when I play those. But I think it's not the best resourse for Irish session tunes, even though there is such an overlap in the repertoir (never heard Petronella at a session yet, though). Norbek is much better for that, if you like getting the music, I think.
# Posted on June 28th 2002 by Bloomfield
Re: Types of Rosin for Fiddles
Sorry....of the topic again, what is a contra dance? And I hate it when people put f naturals in the chicago
)
# Posted on June 28th 2002 by bb
Re: Types of Rosin for Fiddles
Very true very true. There are a few great Irish tunes in it, but mostly New England stuff and such. I'll look for Norbek. I'm becoming a bit music literate, sort of. I can't site read unless it's very easy or I'm already a bit familiar with the tune, which kind of defeats the purpose.
# Posted on June 28th 2002 by flyinfiddler
Re: Types of Rosin for Fiddles
bb, go to my web site at http://www.geocities.com/flyinfiddler and then go to links and you will find a section on Contra dance. I've found quite a few cool Contra Dance sites out there.
# Posted on June 28th 2002 by flyinfiddler
Re: Types of Rosin for Fiddles
flyin, Henrik Norbek has the best ABC tune collection on the web. You can probably find links to it in the ABC-links section. His versions are close to what is actually played in sessions, I hear.
bb, Contradances are a bit like square dances or old English country dances. couples line up in lines and then, you know, dance. Fun to play for and good practice.
# Posted on June 28th 2002 by Bloomfield
Re: Types of Rosin for Fiddles
This has been a worthwhile thread for me. Thanks. I found some orange rosin lying about (hidersine btand which is widely available in the uk and cheap). So I tried instead of black which I had been using and the sound is much better. my lower notes were muffled with the black rosin and now they actually have some life.the upper register which was always good now sounds "sweet". Great tips and I never would have believed it.
Makes me wonder if i should try stringing my fiddle with telephone wire like the gypsies used to (you know to get that authentic sound) serioulsy I once heard tapes of gypsies on the BBC radio which specifiaclly pointed out the telephone wire thing. no wonder telecommnications were kind of backward in those countries.
# Posted on June 30th 2002 by donnchad
Re: Types of Rosin for Fiddles
Found an interesting page with this on it
" I use a rosin from Germany with Gold particles in it. ( GOLD 1 ) It costs the Earth, but it really is so adherent - you feel your bow hairs glued to the string in such a way that it is almost difficult to pull the two apart ! This is obviously good for the sound. The tone quality is so rich and full when using this rosin. I estimate it is 3 to 4 times better than anything else. The maker is Renate Schmidt, and metal particles ( such as gold and silver ) are used in the rosin to give different tonal results. Effectively you play with gold dust......I call this my "Magic rosin". It is interesting how Pirastro advertise different rosin blends for their different strings. This shows how critical the whole business is ! With a cheap, powdery, yellow, Chinese rosin you obtain no adherence and a lot of powder - and no body to the sound. The main purpose of rosin is to roughen bow hairs so they adhere and grip the string, displacing it so that it vibrates. It connects the bow hairs to the string. This is an important stage in sound production - do not economize here ! Use this rosin sparingly - as it deposits a crust on the string ( cleaner needed !! ) . If you want this Rosin write to Renate M Schmidt, Johannes Kepler Strasse 74, D-75378 Bad Liebenzell - Ul. , Germany - Tel 0049.7052.2904. ( this is a FAX and a PHONE number ) I cannot recommend it strongly enough - it is amazing. Recently, it has become available at Phelps Violin, London. Please see our link page !!"
| duly got in touch with Phelps and ordered some. It costs £12.75 per block. The silver was described as creating a more brilliant wound. I went for the warm deep tones which the gold was said to enhance.
# Posted on July 1st 2002 by donnchad
Re: Types of Rosin for Fiddles
The link to the strings page (with lots of information, from a classical point of view) is http://www.wps.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/violin_strings.htm
Phelp's website is http://www.phelps-violins.com/
Zina
# Posted on July 1st 2002 by Zina Lee
And here's a page with several interesting technical discussions about rosin:
http://www.cello.org/heaven/mbarchs/2001/june2/rosin.htm
At the very bottom of the page is a comment about the Liebenzeller various Gold rosins.
You can also purchase Liebenzeller in the States at Music City Strings in Rockport Maine, their website is at http://www.musiccitystrings.com/chin.html#rosin -- there are several other gold rosins available, although I'm reading that the Pirastro Goldflex can be something of a giant pain in the eyes and nostrils as an allergan/irritant. The price for the Liebenzeller Gold I is $19.50.
Zina
# Posted on July 1st 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Types of Rosin for Fiddles
I'd say there wouldnt be any point to using gold flecked rosin if your fiddle was really bad tho. I use black rosin - i find it better for the crunchy triplets that i love.
# Posted on July 1st 2002 by bb
Re: Types of Rosin for Fiddles
Well, according to the discussions, the gold flecks help keep the rosin softer without being sticky -- a help in certain climates. Now keep in mind that these rosins are developed for the exceedingly picky classical market.
The different string manufacturers recommend different rosins for the different kinds of strings -- Pirastro, I believe, even manufactures different rosins specifically for each string.
Zina
# Posted on July 1st 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Types of Rosin for Fiddles
I know - but if you had a chinese skylark fiddle you wouldnt spend loads of a gold flecked soandso - would you?? anyhow gotta go to a session, seeya lads
)
# Posted on July 1st 2002 by bb
Re: Types of Rosin for Fiddles
Dunno, would it make it sound better without the expense of buying a new fiddle?
Twenty USD wouldn't be too bad if it helps make the Chinese Skylark sound like a good grade student fiddle, and if you have a good grade student fiddle and the fancy-pants rosin make it sound like a good pro instrument, why the hell not? This not counting other factors like strings, humidity, skill level of player, blah blah blah.
Of course, the rosins and strings and such aren't much of a substitute for being able to play whatever instrument you like and make it sound good -- which of course means practise...ewww! *grin* A teacher was telling me once that there's a fiddler that she always thought had a crappy instrument, and then a master fiddler came to town and happened to pick up this fiddler's violin and play it, and it sounded truly gorgeous. It was the fiddler, not the fiddle. Heh.
Hope the session was fun!
Zina
# Posted on July 1st 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Types of Rosin for Fiddles
I'm mildly allergic to pine pollens and other tree residues (wood smoke, sawdust, etc), and have noticed the darker bow rosins tend to pump up my sinuses. Anyone else have this problem? I've stayed away from the powdered rosins for this reason, and tend to rosin light anyway so I don't get such a cloud around my head when I play.
On the subject of making a cheap fiddle sound better than it is, I'd recommend buying the best bow you can afford--a good bow can do more than the fiddle to get the sound you're after.
# Posted on July 1st 2002 by Will Harmon
Bow
Now i'm curious. How can the bow affect how a fiddle sounds? I'd think that as long as it's straight and has the right weight, it should be fine.
# Posted on July 1st 2002 by glauber
Re: Types of Rosin for Fiddles
There you guys go again! I thought if if i simply spent more dosh on rosin all my probs would be solved (grin) and NO MORE PRACTICE
Guesss Im wrong.Anyway as an experiment its not that expensive just to try the gold stuff
# Posted on July 1st 2002 by donnchad
Re: Types of Rosin for Fiddles
Now I don't know whether Glauber's trying to be funny or serious.... Hmmmm...I'll try to put it in terms a wind player would understand. A fiddler's bow is like a flutist's embouchure--without the right tool, the instrument (fiddle or flute) can't live up to it's potential.
Factors in a bow that affect tone production:
Quality of the hair
Quality of the hair installation (flatness, eveness, tension, etc.)
Liveliness of the stick
Balance from tip to frog
Weight
Straightness
Range of available tension on the hair
Probably even the density of the stick....
I'm sure the list goes on.
Just as a thin flat pick can give you a thin tone on a guitar, certain bow characteristics can weaken the tone of a fiddle.
I'm still convinced that finding the right strings for your fiddle is one of the most direct physical things you can do to improve your tone, assuming that the set up is good. Most else is technique, 99 percent in the bow arm.
# Posted on July 1st 2002 by Will Harmon
Re: Types of Rosin for Fiddles
I totally agree about the bow - I have a really light bow, its not that great. My fiddle is nice so its ok - it evens out, but when I use my friends bow - its improves the sounds 10 fold - its really lovely, costed €2000 tho - arrgghhh
) (mine costed €350 - I used to thing that was alot for a bow - teehheee)
# Posted on July 2nd 2002 by bb
Re: Types of Rosin for Fiddles
The Liebenzeller that I ordered yesterday from Phelps in London at 1500 hrs arrived in Scotland to me this morining - now thats service!
I have tried it and do not think I have imagined that It has made a difference. My bowing is smoother (I mean its like the bow is connected to the string - in a good way) and the ornamenation sounds crisper (eg rolls are clean, with the art craft dark they were distinctly(sic) muffled, bowed triplets go tchkk more readily with less effort). the tone is clean as well. give it a go (and no I do not get commissions for sales)
George
# Posted on July 2nd 2002 by donnchad
Re: Types of Rosin for Fiddles
Ah, aren't artificial aids worth it!? Try recording yourself using both rosins, George (separately, I mean!) and see if there really is a difference. (Make sure you've cleaned all the old rosin off your bow hair before trying it!) The classicos say there is, that's for sure -- hey, where's ViolaDave? He ought to have a few things to say about this, now I think on it, being one himself. Anyway, George, don't totally abandon your orange rosin, nor the practise! *grin* You don't want to go depending on your rosin for your tone production and technical skill.
I'm going to give it a go myself, actually -- perhaps the better bow adhesion to the string will remind me to lengthen out my strokes, as I'm trying to smooth out my bowing a bit.
Zina
# Posted on July 2nd 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Types of Rosin for Fiddles
Zina - I think you'll enjoy the rosin. a friend said he noticed a different tone coming off the thing and i played a klezmer piece called flatbush waltz (off the notes im afraid) and could get much more expression into it. the rosin grips really well and thus the bow moves ever so slowly but the notes sound strong and resonate well.
# Posted on July 2nd 2002 by donnchad
Re: Types of Rosin for Fiddles
Sounds great to me! Thanks for the tip, George, very timely, since I just broke my cake of rosin to bits the other day.
Zina
# Posted on July 2nd 2002 by Zina Lee
Bow wow
Will,
thanks, i'm really surprised it affects the tone so much. After i posted, i thought, the quality of the hair and the straightness would for sure affect the tone, but i thought in the machine age, every bow would be pretty much the same or at least good enough. Fascinating.
# Posted on July 2nd 2002 by glauber
Re: Types of Rosin for Fiddles
Just to reinforce what Will Harmon said ....the quality of bow can make an enormous difference to the sound you can get even out of a cheaper fiddle.
Getting back to the subject of rosin, one of the things I have noticed is that some fiddlers (me included) sometimes have too much on their bow and this can make the bow skid over the strings. A good way of clearing the exess rosin is use an old toothbrush with the bow hair very slightly loosened. Just brush gently up and down three or four times and this should do the trick. Don't get Pavlovian though and absent mindedly put toothpaste on it first ... (so that was just me then)?
# Posted on July 2nd 2002 by Geoff Pollitt
Re: Carbon fibre bows
Some more info for those interested can be found at:
http://www.strings.co.uk/arcus.asp
# Posted on July 2nd 2002 by donnchad